It’s a great album. I think Collins was the first to use Gated Drum on Peter Gabriel’s third solo album but for better or worse, smashed it out the park on ‘In the Air …’
Harmoniser sharmoniser. The sound was invented, as mentioned above, during the Gabriel album sessions when they recorded Phil Collins clattering about through the talk back mic over his head rather than the kit mics, by accident. It’s a shitty brittle mic with a gate on it to cut the studio noise out when trying to talk to the drummer from the control room. Pete ‘n’ Phil loved the sound and the rest is history. But correctly this is gated reverb (on the snare – essentially cutting out the the room sound) rather than a gate on the snare itself.
Yebbut we already knew that, Twang, cos Steerpike posted it below. That’s like me coming along now and telling your anecdote in even more detail. I mean, really.
Hugh Padgham has told the story of it being a happy accident many times. He was engineer to Steve Lillywhite, they both liked a big live drum sound and this was a spin off from that set up.
It was fortunate that Peter Gabriel didn’t want cymbals used as:
“If there are cymbals at the same time it sounds like somebody hitting a giant dustbin. It completely annihilates the drums. If you want cymbals and the effect you have to overdub.”
Well, in the interest of pedantry the following from ‘Recordingology’ regarding Bowie’s Low:
Distortion / Gating –
The snare sound in this tune is unique, not only in the spectral modification brought about through pitch shifting (see above), but also in that it sounds gated. True gated snare must wait until Peter Gabriel’s Intruder in 1980, but the dense spectral burst of Sound and Vision’s pitch shifted snare, starting the instant the snare is struck, and then ending abruptly — unnaturally abruptly — almost certainly motivated the search that led to gated snare.
The Eventide H910 Harmonizer is one of the first digital processors available for the recording studio. It is an analog in, analog out, digital delay and pitch shifter. It has analog to digital converters, and digital to analog converters. The digital processor in between handles delay and pitch shifting, while compression, expansion and filtering are in the analog domain before and after the digital signal processing block. Metering was limited. A hot input into the H910 causes wild distortion. There are opportunities for overdriving the analog inputs, hitting the analog dynamics processors hard, as well as clipping the converters. The harmonic distortion is so strong — a combination of analog overdrive plus over compression plus hard clipping at the converters — that when the amplitude of the decaying snare waveform falls back below the threshold of distortion, the harmonics of distortion stop, and it sounds as if the snare sound stopped. The burst of heavy clipping snapping on and off with each hit makes the snare sound as if it had been gated.
What a wonderful situation to be in. Imagine never having heard Phil Collins ‘sing’ In The Air Tonight. Imagine being able to keep it that way! Ahh…. paradise.
Don’t dislike it but don’t need to click on something to hear it again. Don’t much care about young black kids’ reactions to it either. Other things to do.
Shut the fuck up, me and Mike are listing our Top Fifty Things That Are Wrong With The World and we don’t need no young kids listening to crap music interrupting us.
These reaction videos are very wholesome, I love them a lot. Add quite considerably to the net joy of the world, and generally involve young people who couldn’t give a toss about what’s credible in the eyes of their dads and grandads, finding huge amounts of pleasure in stuff that is amazing to anyone whose ears aren’t blocked by 40 years of genre prejudice. It’s lovely seeing people really love music as music, rather than only being prepared to accept it if it has the correct contextual baggage.
I feel like that’s one of the best bits about young people’s consumption of music. Tribes and eras and their associated cred (or lack-of) mean ball-all. I think they’re much better at listening with their ears than my generation ever were.
I’m sure we’re all guilty of not liking something because it’s not cool but in this case it’s the awful nasal whining that I hate. I’ve no real idea whether I’d like the music because I’ve never got past the vocals. Phil Collins’ version of Can’t Hurry Love is pretty much the same arrangement as the original so what’s not to like there…. but then there’s the fingernails down the blackboard whining.
Cool is a bit of a strange consideration for a bunch of men in our fifties!
I wasn’t particularly referring to PC himself, fair enough if people don’t like his voice or any other part of his music. But it’s hard to deny that there are a lot of people roughly our age who enthusiastically shun mega-selling artists (purely coincidentally the same ones who were given hard kickings by the inkies at the time). It’s also hard to deny that kids today don’t seem to really give a toss about cred and really rate a huge range of music from yesteryear, some of which would’ve been Gen X NME-approved and much of which wouldn’t.
I’m not suggesting he can’t hold a note, I’m just saying, to my ears, it sounds bloody awful. I’d put a load of classically trained, and presumably very talented opera singers in the same boat.
I may be completely wrong here and if so I’ll take my criticism, but the reaction clips that I’ve seen all show black people reacting (invariably positively) to what is generally regarded to be white-people music.
Makes me wonder if the intention is “See, Black People like our music, so it must be cool after all!”
@Mike_H – I agree, there is that element of “look at the black kids listening to our dull old white rock. Arf!” I mis read your original comment, apologies.
Almost certainly the black participants are the ones who are originating the clips, with the aim of monetising their YouTube accounts. And why not.
I suspect they are targeting a predominantly white audience with the music they use, with at least a partial intention to exploit their audience’s bias and prejudices.
Some synchronicity at work today. I was prompted to post here by an article on reddit about young Phil’s breakout hit, but someone sent me that clip about 10 minutes later.
A “gate” is an electronic doo-dah you pass a sound through, and it cuts everything below a certain volume and allows through everything about a certain volume. So if you say “HELLO HELLO hello hello” through a gate, and set it at the correct level, you will hear HELLO HELLO but not the hello hello bit.
With me so far?
So….
A snare drum in real life, if you listen to the actual sound, goes TICK-PHOOOOOooooooooo. (can’t come up with a better description). The TICK is the drum stick hitting the skin, and the PHOOOOOoooo is the skin resonating and dying off to silence (quite quick with a snare).
SO…….
A snare drum recorded and passed through a gate, with the level set correctly, will go TICK-PHOO and cut off suddenly. You won’t hear the ooooooo bit. And as you miss that natural resonance and tailing off of the sound, it sounds unnatural. If you combine that with mic-ing it and hitting it in the right way, you get that eighties DOOF DOOF sound.
(I think to get the true eighties sound, you need a slight repeat echo as well, but that’s another story).
I love the reaction videos by No Life Shaq on Youtube. He is such good fun, no idea if he’s authentic or not, but he seems to have some real enjoyment of music and isn’t beyond looking daft. He did seem to really get into metal for a while, don’t think that was fake.
I’ve become quite fond of these two brothers & their reactions.
What’s refreshing is they have absolutely no preconceptions & respond completely honestly whether it’s to Yazoo, Pavarotti or Nina Simone.
The nice thing is, they like almost everything, & why not?
‘..back with another video, back with another banger!’
I was tickled when they heard Muddy Waters & thought his name was Mannish Boy.
Didn’t detract from their appreciation one jot & they both concluded that he was indeed ‘bringing it’. High praise indeed in 2020!
@KDH , I just had a look at the ACDC list. Bizarre and how is this for a comment:
11. Ride On (1976)
Regarded by many fans as the band’s most heartfelt song (and a favourite of Belle and Sebastian’s Stuart Murdoch), this mournful blues has no hint of celebration.
I mean who gives a fuck about what the guy from Belle and Sebastain thinks.
MC Escher says
4:45 ish for that drum intro.
And what a great song it is too. Ushering in the fabulous Eighties gated snare enormo-drum sound.
Steerpike says
It’s a great album. I think Collins was the first to use Gated Drum on Peter Gabriel’s third solo album but for better or worse, smashed it out the park on ‘In the Air …’
Arthur Cowslip says
Oooh …. surely Bowie’s Low was the first to use the fabled gated snare…? Amiwrong?
MC Escher says
Nope you are correct. Bowie, Visconti and possibly Eno “invented the 80s” with that LP.
Drum sound courtesy of the Eventide Harmoniser, which “fucks with the fabric of time,” according to TV.
Rigid Digit says
I’ve always thought Midge Ure invented the 80s
(but it meant nothing to him)
Uncle Wheaty says
Oooh…Venice!
Freddy Steady says
Don’t you mean.,,Ach.,
H.P. Saucecraft says
Ach! Vienna! Spielen der guittarren, der pretty madchen in ze dirndl skirtinks – und drinken der schnapps!!!!
nickduvet says
I’m surprised no one posted this:
Twang says
Harmoniser sharmoniser. The sound was invented, as mentioned above, during the Gabriel album sessions when they recorded Phil Collins clattering about through the talk back mic over his head rather than the kit mics, by accident. It’s a shitty brittle mic with a gate on it to cut the studio noise out when trying to talk to the drummer from the control room. Pete ‘n’ Phil loved the sound and the rest is history. But correctly this is gated reverb (on the snare – essentially cutting out the the room sound) rather than a gate on the snare itself.
H.P. Saucecraft says
*genuflects to kiss the hem of Twang’s garment*
MC Escher says
Yebbut we already knew that, Twang, cos Steerpike posted it below. That’s like me coming along now and telling your anecdote in even more detail. I mean, really.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Good point well made.
Twang says
I’m just saying how it was discovered. But the Eventide Harmoniser, which may well have been an effect used on Low, had nothing to do with it.
Timbar says
Hugh Padgham has told the story of it being a happy accident many times. He was engineer to Steve Lillywhite, they both liked a big live drum sound and this was a spin off from that set up.
It was fortunate that Peter Gabriel didn’t want cymbals used as:
“If there are cymbals at the same time it sounds like somebody hitting a giant dustbin. It completely annihilates the drums. If you want cymbals and the effect you have to overdub.”
deramdaze says
The Sainted Dave “invented the dire 1980s?”
What a knob-cheese.
Steerpike says
Well, in the interest of pedantry the following from ‘Recordingology’ regarding Bowie’s Low:
Distortion / Gating –
The snare sound in this tune is unique, not only in the spectral modification brought about through pitch shifting (see above), but also in that it sounds gated. True gated snare must wait until Peter Gabriel’s Intruder in 1980, but the dense spectral burst of Sound and Vision’s pitch shifted snare, starting the instant the snare is struck, and then ending abruptly — unnaturally abruptly — almost certainly motivated the search that led to gated snare.
The Eventide H910 Harmonizer is one of the first digital processors available for the recording studio. It is an analog in, analog out, digital delay and pitch shifter. It has analog to digital converters, and digital to analog converters. The digital processor in between handles delay and pitch shifting, while compression, expansion and filtering are in the analog domain before and after the digital signal processing block. Metering was limited. A hot input into the H910 causes wild distortion. There are opportunities for overdriving the analog inputs, hitting the analog dynamics processors hard, as well as clipping the converters. The harmonic distortion is so strong — a combination of analog overdrive plus over compression plus hard clipping at the converters — that when the amplitude of the decaying snare waveform falls back below the threshold of distortion, the harmonics of distortion stop, and it sounds as if the snare sound stopped. The burst of heavy clipping snapping on and off with each hit makes the snare sound as if it had been gated.
… So we are all correct …
slotbadger says
“A hot input into the H910 causes wild distortion”
My Tinder profile
fentonsteve says
Arthur Cowslip says
Ha!
Blue Boy says
I was with you up to ‘this tune is unique’. Rather lost the thread after that….
Steerpike says
Me too
johnw says
What a wonderful situation to be in. Imagine never having heard Phil Collins ‘sing’ In The Air Tonight. Imagine being able to keep it that way! Ahh…. paradise.
Mike_H says
Don’t dislike it but don’t need to click on something to hear it again. Don’t much care about young black kids’ reactions to it either. Other things to do.
MC Escher says
Well, thanks for popping in, Mike!
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Shut the fuck up, me and Mike are listing our Top Fifty Things That Are Wrong With The World and we don’t need no young kids listening to crap music interrupting us.
hedgepig says
These reaction videos are very wholesome, I love them a lot. Add quite considerably to the net joy of the world, and generally involve young people who couldn’t give a toss about what’s credible in the eyes of their dads and grandads, finding huge amounts of pleasure in stuff that is amazing to anyone whose ears aren’t blocked by 40 years of genre prejudice. It’s lovely seeing people really love music as music, rather than only being prepared to accept it if it has the correct contextual baggage.
I feel like that’s one of the best bits about young people’s consumption of music. Tribes and eras and their associated cred (or lack-of) mean ball-all. I think they’re much better at listening with their ears than my generation ever were.
johnw says
I’m sure we’re all guilty of not liking something because it’s not cool but in this case it’s the awful nasal whining that I hate. I’ve no real idea whether I’d like the music because I’ve never got past the vocals. Phil Collins’ version of Can’t Hurry Love is pretty much the same arrangement as the original so what’s not to like there…. but then there’s the fingernails down the blackboard whining.
hedgepig says
Cool is a bit of a strange consideration for a bunch of men in our fifties!
I wasn’t particularly referring to PC himself, fair enough if people don’t like his voice or any other part of his music. But it’s hard to deny that there are a lot of people roughly our age who enthusiastically shun mega-selling artists (purely coincidentally the same ones who were given hard kickings by the inkies at the time). It’s also hard to deny that kids today don’t seem to really give a toss about cred and really rate a huge range of music from yesteryear, some of which would’ve been Gen X NME-approved and much of which wouldn’t.
dai says
Whatever you think of his music (I like this track and a couple of Genesis efforts), I would imagine by any standards his vocals are pretty decent.
johnw says
I’m not suggesting he can’t hold a note, I’m just saying, to my ears, it sounds bloody awful. I’d put a load of classically trained, and presumably very talented opera singers in the same boat.
slotbadger says
“Young black kids” – Young white kids would be better?
Mike_H says
I may be completely wrong here and if so I’ll take my criticism, but the reaction clips that I’ve seen all show black people reacting (invariably positively) to what is generally regarded to be white-people music.
Makes me wonder if the intention is “See, Black People like our music, so it must be cool after all!”
H.P. Saucecraft says
Can I just ask a question here? Are we doin’ Stonehenge or not?
slotbadger says
@Mike_H – I agree, there is that element of “look at the black kids listening to our dull old white rock. Arf!” I mis read your original comment, apologies.
Mike_H says
Almost certainly the black participants are the ones who are originating the clips, with the aim of monetising their YouTube accounts. And why not.
I suspect they are targeting a predominantly white audience with the music they use, with at least a partial intention to exploit their audience’s bias and prejudices.
chiz says
Y’all will have seen this of course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jMo7Iz6I0Q
nickduvet says
Yo! and this
MC Escher says
Some synchronicity at work today. I was prompted to post here by an article on reddit about young Phil’s breakout hit, but someone sent me that clip about 10 minutes later.
bobhumphrey01 says
Is there a version without the drums? I wonder how well it works as a ‘normal’ (not the right word but you know what I’m getting at) ballad.
Junior Wells says
I’ve got the inverse – a demo of biko which has no lyrics andit sounds great.
Baack to gated as in “it sounds gated” WTF does that mean?
MC Escher says
Well it’s very similar to the digital delay sound produced by the Eventide Harmonizer as deployed on the Bowie LP “Low”.
Arthur Cowslip says
I will bravely try to explain!!
A “gate” is an electronic doo-dah you pass a sound through, and it cuts everything below a certain volume and allows through everything about a certain volume. So if you say “HELLO HELLO hello hello” through a gate, and set it at the correct level, you will hear HELLO HELLO but not the hello hello bit.
With me so far?
So….
A snare drum in real life, if you listen to the actual sound, goes TICK-PHOOOOOooooooooo. (can’t come up with a better description). The TICK is the drum stick hitting the skin, and the PHOOOOOoooo is the skin resonating and dying off to silence (quite quick with a snare).
SO…….
A snare drum recorded and passed through a gate, with the level set correctly, will go TICK-PHOO and cut off suddenly. You won’t hear the ooooooo bit. And as you miss that natural resonance and tailing off of the sound, it sounds unnatural. If you combine that with mic-ing it and hitting it in the right way, you get that eighties DOOF DOOF sound.
(I think to get the true eighties sound, you need a slight repeat echo as well, but that’s another story).
Audio experts…. how did I do????
attackdog says
Well, I didn’t know that a snare drum Phoooed.
fentonsteve says
Not bad. The DOOF comes from over-damping the drums, though, as much as the gate. Drums really don’t sound like that in real life.
Junior Wells says
Thanks I understand that @Arthur-Cowslip
Arthur Cowslip says
I’m going to start a new career writing technical manuals.
Hawkfall says
I get that! I think Arthur should have his own YouTube channel where he explains technical stuff to middle-aged people.
“Imagine this USB cable is a sine wave”.
I would click on “Subscribe”
Smiles Diles says
I love the reaction videos by No Life Shaq on Youtube. He is such good fun, no idea if he’s authentic or not, but he seems to have some real enjoyment of music and isn’t beyond looking daft. He did seem to really get into metal for a while, don’t think that was fake.
Junglejim says
I’ve become quite fond of these two brothers & their reactions.
What’s refreshing is they have absolutely no preconceptions & respond completely honestly whether it’s to Yazoo, Pavarotti or Nina Simone.
The nice thing is, they like almost everything, & why not?
H.P. Saucecraft says
Yeah! They’re great kids.
Junglejim says
‘..back with another video, back with another banger!’
I was tickled when they heard Muddy Waters & thought his name was Mannish Boy.
Didn’t detract from their appreciation one jot & they both concluded that he was indeed ‘bringing it’. High praise indeed in 2020!
John Walters says
Juke Box Jury for the 2020’s
Black Celebration says
The POH drum sound in Raspberry Beret and many other Prince songs. Is that the sane kind of thing?
# The kind you find in a second hand store.. POH #
MC Escher says
The same kind of thing as what BC, hmmm? Use your words.
Black Celebration says
Gated snare? All the quiet bits taken out and just the loud bit? It’s a very distinctive noise.
Arthur Cowslip says
Pretty much every snare throughout the eighties. So yes!
Freddy Steady says
It IS a very distinctive sound and of course it ruined the whole of Seance by the Church( Not them again ? Ed.) I’d love that album to be re-recorded.
KDH says
Meanwhile, the Guardian’s Michael Hann has done his top 20 Phil Collins’ solo tracks:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/13/phil-collins-greatest-solo-songs-ranked
Unlike his similar exercise for AC/DC (,https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/30/acdc-their-40-greatest-songs-ranked), the number one is quite predictable.
Junior Wells says
@KDH , I just had a look at the ACDC list. Bizarre and how is this for a comment:
11. Ride On (1976)
Regarded by many fans as the band’s most heartfelt song (and a favourite of Belle and Sebastian’s Stuart Murdoch), this mournful blues has no hint of celebration.
I mean who gives a fuck about what the guy from Belle and Sebastain thinks.
KDH says
Not convinced he hasn’t got mixed up with the Christy Moore song of the same name…