Sparked to attention by Bingo’s provocation on the guilty pleasures thread with his “Surely amongst the least Afterword-friendly artists imaginable, and yet… responsible for some amazing tunes”, I thought, surely not Cyndi? She’s so great (as well as unusual) and has trailed her own career path right into her 60s. Her quirky associations with WWF and her long and strong support for LGTB are just two indicators of her willingness to go her own way, and that openness floods out in many of her songs, which is why I think they connect to so many people.
A quick check and it turns out there is AW support for La Lauper. Twang reviewed her last album (of country songs), signing off with “But who doesn’t like Cyndi Lauper?” Of course there was a dissenting voice, but also a fair few assenting ones too.
Her hit singles always stand up fresh to replaying, taking me back to the time when I first heard them. But they are well known, so I’ll put below a few less frequently played songs from through her career to start off the lovefest, (in case anyone wants to join in).
Off her debut album (when she was already thirty) after quitting the rockabilly band ‘Blue Angel’, the self-penned “I’ll Kiss You” may be overshadowed by the plentiful singles shucked off into the hit parade, but thrusts itself confidently, jagging and throbbing into your lugholes:
Over a decade later, her 5th album “Sisters of Avalon” has her playing guitar, bass recorder, slide dulcimer, omnichord, zither. She does ballads as well as she does pop, and this unassuming lullaby has touches of ASMR vocalisations accompanying her simple song which sinks its melodies into my ears.
Her last album of original material was 2008’s dance-orientated “Bring Ya to the Brink”. Into The Nightlife shows off Cyndi as a true electro diva:
I think she’s great, She Bop is one of my favourite hits from the fluorescent mid 80s. Great fun. I also think Time After Time has aged very well, and is used excellently in the Napoleon Dynamite film.
Of her later hits, I’m fond of That’s What I Think.
At the end of 1984, you may have thought she rather than Madonna would have made it huge. Ah well.
I avoided mentioning Madonna, because the comparisons between the two are/were often made, and I don’t think they’re necessary of helpful. Although they were both strong, New York-based female singers who came to prominence around the same time, and often added acting to their main career as singers, there was no one career path they had to follow. Madonna, I would say, was motivated by ambition and a need to remain relevant, Cyndi Lauper by whim and whatever interested her at the time.
I’ll check out “That’s What I Think”
With the melodica and recorder etc, it’s a bit
“That’s What I ‘Kitchen’ Think”, but I like it – it’s got a great chorus.
As soon as you mentioned a melodica and a great chorus, I thought “Bet that’s a Bazilian/Hyman song.”
And so it is.
If she’s good enough for Miles Davis …
Exactly.
And a song about “southern comfort” in the top ten. Well done.
Having once seen Miles perform the soNg, have always loved TAT.
Having seen CL do her own intimate version for the BBC campfire show at Glasto a few years back bought her Acoustic album of her classic songs. It’s terrific
When I saw her live she had Rick Derringer on guitar, one of my heroes, and they did TAT as a duet, just with his guitar. Fab. She came on at the end and sang “True Colours” a cappella which was spine tingling.
Very good artist – Sally’s pigeons is very sad and demonstrates her ability as a songwriter is under appreciated.
She may have been underappreciated by some, but she was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.
That Blues thing – hmm
Well, well. Kudos, Afterword blog.
Leaving aside the obvious classics (including Drove All Night, which gets too little respect), the only recently celebrated Goonies R Good Enough and the already-referenced but totally excellent She Bop, I’ll give a shout out to the following:
When You Were Mine – you can’t really go wrong with much off the first album, but this one remains a bit of a hidden gem. Great showcase for that big old voice.
A Christmas Duel – in with a shout for being the greatest Christmas song ever made (albeit facing stiff competition from Darlene Love and Queen), this is probably my favourite Lauper vocal of all. Her entrance to the song is completely epic and her voice complements that of whatshisface from the Hives superbly. I bet they had an absolute blast recording it.
Welcome, Bingo, and thank you, named guest, for your two treats. When You Were Mine is like a dry sneeze – it keeps on promising, but never delivers. It’s one of the most annoying songs I know. Never heard A Christmas Duel before, but it deserves its place as a low rent Fairytale of New York, for the opening verse at the very least.
I thought there was an AW crowd for Cyndi and I’m not disappointed. Obviously, there’ll be lots for whom she’s audio toxin, though I’m slightly surprised about Dave below, but she’s a quirky outsider, and us moderate reserved English blokes often like a bit of provocation.
Lol.
I remember buying She’s So Unusual and Neneh Cherry’s Raw Like Sushi on the same day. A good day’s shopping. Somethings are well regarded because they are good. Positive critical consensus happens for a reason, although it can take time to get the consensus right. It’s useful to know what is rated. To narrow down the field of choices and save time. You don’t have to agree though, of course. Maybe a consensus of Afterworders thinking something is shit means it probably is shit. Probably. Cyndi’s not a guilty pleasure in the sense of something that people tend not to rate but you like, because who doesn’t like Cyndi.
Uh? Raw Like Sushi met with massive critical acclaim when it came out.
That is a great day’s shopping indeed.
As I get older, I increasingly feel like music has a bunch of different purposes, and you can only really properly judge it against the purpose it’s being asked to fulfil.
To give but one example; if you play Visions of Johanna in a nightclub, you’ll probably find yourself being physically ejected from the building. Meanwhile, if you’re in the mood to feel clever and sophisticated on your own in the wee small hours, you probably won’t reach for Dooms Night, and you’ll have a bad time if you do.
This community, unsurprisingly, has a set of shared norms and values around what music is for: largely, compiling into lists, listening to with hushed respect and constructing canons. I’m being facetious, but only marginally so. If that’s what you want from music (e.g. if you really like acoustic balladry that’s easy on the ear, but not so easy on the ear it might be at risk of getting played in a supermarket, and which nods to a number of acceptable past reference points), then this is an incredibly helpful place upon whose consensus you can generally rely.
If, on the other hand, you want to know whether the new Pop Smoke album is any good, this is a fucking awful place to rely upon – you’d have to be ought of your mind. The Afterword has virtually no idea about music of that type, because the community simply isn’t looking for music to do what Hip Hop does, and arguably doesn’t really understand what Hip Hop does. Regardless of that consensus, it doesn’t mean that the music is shit, any more than it would mean the music was shit if you asked the writers over at The Source what they think of Ryley Walker et al.
There’s nothing wrong with any of the above, but I do think it’s helpful to bear in mind that music does lots of stuff. It can make you sagely stroke your beard. It can make you have a brilliant conversation with a mate about whether track 3 is a deliberate call out to an old Richard Thompson record, and whether those really are medieval chord structures. But it can also make you physically excited, and make you want to jump on your mate and get a piggyback round the room, and sing at the top of your voice (over the top of the artist, no less), and enjoy a shared experience with thousands of other people without any artistic merit whatsoever. All of those things are legit, and should be kept in mind when deciding if music is any good.
Is Jackson Browne good music? Fuck yes, if you’re looking for that sort of thing. How about the remix of Bodies by Tion Wayne – yeah, that’s fucking amazing too, provided you’re not looking for Jackson Browne. It isn’t even about musical complexity or virtuosity; Set You Free by N Trance probably took about 30 seconds to write, but in the correct circumstances it’s the best piece of music anyone’s ever produced.
There’s music I sing along to in the car that I would never play at home. Music that is perfect for the last 500 metres of a long run that I wouldn’t listen to while working. Horses for courses. There’s probably also music to listen to while riding a horse, but I’ve not worked that out yet.
The only exception is Mariah Carey, who is the artist with the most time spent at number one on the Billboard charts and who is empirically the correct go-to in all circumstances and for all people.
But Visions of Johanna is funkeeee!
Except when it stops for them funny noises… some say it’s a harmonica
For me music is mainly what I want to hear by myself. I’ve tried playing that stuff to others but I find their lack of enthusiasm or even derision makes it an unhappy activity not surprisingly. Not worth the bother. Better in splendid isolation. Sometimes there’s overlap of course. I might end up going to a gig with my other half. Sometimes it’s more her thing than my thing and vice versa. We do each other a favour sometimes by tolerating the other one’s taste to be kind. I wonder if going to a gig might be better alone too, without the distraction of the other, awareness that they aren’t 100% into it, but you would still have the crowd to share the experience with, though that can also be problematic. There’s also background music for when we have people round. A Spotify playlist. Or browsing youtube after a few drinks. That’s kind of a light form of listening though, less intense naturally.
The Afterword is not one conciousness obviously. There’s all kinds of viewpoints. Even hiphop lovers, free jazz lovers, modern pop lovers, and so on. It’s a useful source but there’s plenty of others, there’s still a music press, even if it’s online these days. Do you have to understand something to like it? It might take time but ultimately it’s all music. I don’t need different music for different situations. It’s all just music I like or don’t and if I like I play it at home for me, regardless if it’s hard rock, disco, dance music, jazz or plain rock. Or maybe it’s documentaries or podcasts, all by myself, which I’ve learned works best.
Nothing wrong with any of that.
The Afterword isn’t a hivemind, but its consensus consistently gravitates towards exactly the type of music you describe above; music designed to be enjoyed alone, or at maximum with others in reverent near-silence.
There’s nothing wrong with that either, but it’s worth bearing in mind when deciding how reliable that consensus is re: whether something is shit or might have merit.
I don’t think you have to understand a piece of music to like it. In fact, I sometimes think not understanding the nuts and bolts might be even more conducive to enjoying it.
What I do think you probably need to understand, in your gut if not your brain, is what the music is trying to do, what its utility is. To give but one of a billion examples, I don’t think it’s possible to really understand Oasis unless you’ve been in a large group of mates singing along to them. It’s fundamentally what most of their music is “for”.
While I am grateful to you for bringing to our attention little-known rising acts like Cyndi Lauper and Oasis, I think you’ve got your point about listening with your gut and not your brain the wrong way round
If you are saying we should bear in mind the social utility of music, then you’re adding a level of analysis which is more to do with the brain than the gut. If I listen to music, all I care about is my own reaction, I don’t think about how other people respond to it or where they listen to it. (Does anyone?)
Isn’t the idea that music gains merit from the social context it’s used in, the kind of thing that left wing folkies like Pete Seeger used to promote? This song may be fantastically dreary, but miners used to sing it, and so we must endure, sorry I mean, respect it
You’re welcome, David!
You’ve fundamentally misunderstood the above, but that’s OK. Your gratitude is what really matters 😘
Well I find certain sources more trustworthy than others and if the consensus from them is that something is shit then I suspect I shall agree. Probably. They could be wrong sometimes. There’s clearly subjectivity with this. I read a couple of good reviews and that prompts me to check it out on Spotify. I may disagree or it may be a whole new love affair.
I used to enjoy some Oasis. I mostly listened by myself like with everything else. A boozy pub singalong to Wonderwall once only with workmates. Oh and the more I read about acts, the more I get out of their stuff, in the main. I do sing along when alone too. Even move around.
Thinking of utility, club music is not really suited for home alone listening I suppose but certain forms of it can work. Chillout music was made for a specific setting or situation but it can transfer. These things crossover anyway or become influences. Genre boundaries breakdown. In the 80s I listened to house and hiphop, along with everything else, like rock. It was good to go out dancing too. I can’t say one experience was better than the other really. Sometimes we’d dance to Pixies or JAMC. That was fun but they didn’t make those records with club nights in mind.
I propose we organise a blog get together at which everyone will get messily sloshed, strip to their underwear and howl along to Don’t Look Back In Anger, before collectively agreeing that – yes – this is indeed one of the greatest songs ever recorded and repenting our sins.
To be honest, I’m not really all that interested in people telling me things are shit. I guess that’s what I’m fundamentally getting at here. There are all sorts of songs I’d thought were shit in the past, because I simply hadn’t figured out the correct angle of approach. Once I did, my view did a prompt 180. These days I like to figure that even the stuff I tell myself I don’t like still has the potential for a similar 180; maybe I’ll hear the same song I always hated in different surroundings and with different people and it will suddenly click. It makes life seem a little more ripe with potential to think in those terms. It doesn’t mean attempting to force myself to like it, by any means. It just means never fully closing the door.
It’s also intensely boring listening to people bang on about why something is shit after a certain point. Especially when the thing in question is pop music. It’s meant to be a laugh, it’s not the Theory of Special Relativity; it doesn’t need to be peer reviewed and pretty much all of it will be forgotten soon enough anyway.
I say never say never. I’ve come round to things after the event and gone off things. I’m happy to read that things are shit as well as otherwise, especially if it’s well written, funny even, not boring at least. I need a dose of that occasionally. Being all upbeat and positive all the time is just wearing.
Don’t Look Back In Anger was all right for a few sing alongs back in the day, then it’s apparent magic wore off and there’s nothing else there, meaningless lyrics as well. I’ll take Look Back In Anger instead. A more interesting, more lasting performance.
Yeah, that’s a fair point. A good slating can be entertaining too, so long as the author brings a bit of wit and/or insight. It’s just that they so rarely do.
Here Zepping it up with Tim Renwick, Steve Nieve and Pete Thomas….
Like probably 99% of people vaguely aware of pop music, I only know three Cyndi Lauper songs – Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, True Colours and Time after Time. I love all three of them (and Girls Just… was a massive favourite of mine when I was a nipper). But for whatever reason she’s just not one of those singers I’ve been inspired to seek anything further of.
80’s girl Cyndi Lauper, great! Except, for me it isn’t. She unfortunately is the third in the trilogy of unlistenable 80s voices for me alongside Freddie Mercury and Annie Lennox . I’m not saying she’s bad or anything, I just don’t know because I can’t get past her voice. The three of them sound like angry cats fighting to me (Freddie is worse when accompanied by May’s angry badger guitar). I should probably have said nothing but in the spirit of Bingo’s comments it may be worth saying that Eighties Dave finds some 80s “dire” as someone once described them. Not all music is for everyone. I could also say at this point “Maybe I should dig out a best of” or ask for recommendations. But I won’t, not ever, not for Cyndi, Freddie or Annie….
It’s all good, Dave. Some voices are marmite.
Where do you stand on The Goonies? That’s the real question.
If he’s got any sense, he’ll stand on the irritating little fucks as soon as one comes anywhere near him
“May’s angry badger”
TMFTL.
Theresa May’s Foxy Tutu Lift?
She received the ultimate accolade of a Sesame Street tribute.
BTW The Bicuspids is a fkin excellent band name, non?
I Drove all Night is a much overlooked classic of the late eighties in my view. But the other singles are all OK in a “wouldn’t make me turn off the radio” kind of way. Cyndi or Madonna? It did seem a bit like that at the time but luckily I didn’t have to choose!