Well not really, I too am one who would rather chew my right arm off than attend, however, a friend who is a jazz musician and has also been musical director for the Lion King, forwarded me this.
It is a good explanation of why so much musical theatre is rubbish and why it is good- when it is good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-malloy/musical-theater-and-the-uncool_b_1233909.htm
I can’t open the link, but it reminds me of the great gag by Conan O’Brien. Speaking about the 7,000th Broadway performance of Cats which happened around the year 2000, Conan said:
“7,000 performances, how about that? That means it’s the 7,000th time some guy has turned to his wife and said ‘What the hell is this?'”
Also, on the night that David Letterman’s show moved to CBS – and into a theatre right in the heart of Broadway, and just across the street from where ‘Cats’ was playing – at the beginning of the show he solicited questions from the audience. From the middle of the seats, none other than Paul Newman stands up and bellows, ‘Where the hell are the dancing cats?’
Ah, Cats. The (unintentional) comedy gift that keeps on giving.
I’m claiming the definitive review of ‘Cats’ on behalf of my late Glaswegian mum.
“It wiz aw’ about bloody cats”.
The Moggy Musical in a nutshell!
Thanks, garyjohn. That comment made my day.
Hmm try this
Seems I left the “l” off html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-malloy/musical-theater-and-the-uncool_b_1233909.html
Got it now.
I enjoyed that, although I can’t say it inspired me to go and watch any musical theatre.
The stuff about sus chords was interesting though and I was trying to think of examples (I don’t know any of the songs listed in the article). But in rock Pinball Wizard is almost completely built on sus chords, especially the opening sequence and verses. Likewise Argent’s Hold Your Head Up is full of them, as is John & Yoko’s Happy Xmas (War Is Over).
Not a big fan of musicals, but I’ve seen:
Les Mis, Rocky Horror, The Producers and Matilda. Thoroughly enjoyed all of them. Quite fancy seeing Groundhog Day too. Oh, and I saw Cats years ago & thought it was alright. Decent tunes, well sung.
Similar track record here. Also saw Crazy For You, Elf (I know) and The Lion King. In all honesty, only Matilda and Les Mis were great. I actually thought The Producers was everything I don’t like about musicals – only Springtime has a decent tune and it was the over acting that was annoying. Matilda is great – brilliant lyrics. Les Mis is pretty much perfect.
Matilda is one of the best things I’ve ever seen on a stage.
This might be a good place to recommend Mike Westbrook’s latest epic ‘The Uncommon Orchestra: A Bigger Show’, released on 2CD recently and performed in a few places this year. It lies somewhere between progressive big band jazz, jazz-rock and musical theatre. The few YouTube clips aren’t representative of its catchiest moments.
I don’t have time to give a history of MW here, but he’s a one-off and – as JC will appreciate – most of his albums (several 60s Derams) are ludicrously rare/expensive and massively underrepresented on currently available CDs/downloads.
Here’s a link to hear excerpts of all the tracks. Take a chance on it. The world needs more musical one-offs of Mike’s calibre:
He should be a household name, really.
With an element of dark humour I define Mike Westbrook as ‘a man who makes rare records’. An accolade no artist would want, I guess.
It’s actually unbelievable that so much of his music is so ridiculously priced in second hand form, be it original 60s/70s LPs or in many cases even CD reissues that must have appeared and disappeared like mayflys often within the past 10 years. Typically, you’d be paying £25 for reissue CDs. At that price you may as well try and get lucky on an original LP. You’ll see many of them going for £100+ (Marching Song, Metropolis, Release, Celebration, Love Songs…). An ‘Original Peter/Magic Garden’ single will set you back £400+. I can only assume that there are 1000 die-hard Westbrook fans who buy everything when it’s released and then rarely part with it!
Honestly, the man SHOULD at the very least have some kind of box set, instead of people having to scratch around trying to pick up one or two second hand things.
Superstar way back and Rocky Horror. More recently a Sth African on Amandla? the Lion King a few times as it happens, and the best was a satellite live broadcast from London of the Fela musical which was pretty damn good.
Afraid the idea of Rice/ Lloyd Webber stuff gives me the hee bee gee bees.
He’s completely wrong about Bowie. Has he listened to Bowie? Nothing ‘authentic’ about him at all. The guy was steeped in the theatrical. He was acting all the way. (Which I suspect is why I love his music.)
The Bowie personas yes, but doesn’t he feel /own the music whereas the musical theatre performers he refers to are detached from their performance?
I guess only the performer could answer that. But I take your point.
I find musical theater interesting. We see a goodly amount around here, because Sharon is an actual proper singer and has performed. We also have an annual trip to New York and do the whole museum/show/tennis cycle.
When it’s bad….it’s really bad. One local version of La Cage that we saw when we had recently started dating was awful. Bad dancing, bad singing. We also saw a local version of Les Mis which was outstanding in every way, as well as Into the Woods and City of Angels – all really well done.
Then you go to NY and see Cabaret, and Something Rotten. The attention to detail, the quality of performance, everything was just superlative and an immersive experience. That said, I think the ebst thing I’ve seen live was “The Curious Incident…”, about which I still rave. Anyone doubting the value of live theater should see that; I don’t have the words to do it justice.
School musicals – you see them advertised on real estate company’s sign and it brigs a shudder.
They don’t seem to have progressed beyond Funny Girl and Grease.
Well actually, the schools my offspring went to put on West Side Story and Guys and Dolls, both brilliant.
Your two best musicals ever, right there. As the article up there seems to be saying, the problem with musical theatre is the performers, especially the camp honking semi-operatic males. Film versions are invariably superior because there’s no need to *project*, darling. And don’t get me started on Sondheim.
Guys and Dolls – that’s the other one, chuck in The Boyfriend too
This is all really interesting. Wild heffalumps couldn’t drag me to anything by Lloyd-Webber, or any of the popular shows of the last decade or so. There are no tunes for a start. I went to Matilda, for reasons which I’ll explain, and again there were no actual songs, there were good beginnings and then they meandered off into lyrically complicated and declaimed passages probably full of subs chords. The production however couldn’t be faulted, nor the actual singing.
OTOH a show with real songs, like Sunny Afternoon, is spoilt because a story that I feel I lived through is told with a lot of ham acting and crowd-pleasing moments. Actually the songs were well played and sung, and Ray’s involvement ensured some historical accuracy.
The best musical I’ve ever seen was “Beautiful”, the Carole King story, somehow the acting and innovative staging actually enhanced the great songs and I really enjoyed it.
The weird thing is I’m actually writing a children’s musical myself, (i.e. co-writing a bunch of songs) -it started out as a kind of rock’n roll concert for kids but once you present these things on stage with a bit of a story, all roads lead towards the musical form. Fortunately there are some great people involved, especially the director, and while there are constant squabbles about the script, everyone seems to like the songs, which were written as pop songs and not necessarily to advance the story. And there’s bugger all sus chords too. Whether or not this project actually gets to production, let alone has any success we’ll have to wait and see. I’m encouraged by the fact that it’s been four years so far i.e. all good things take time, and gradually really good people are coming on board, the latest being a brilliant designer.
I think one thing that counts towards the success of musicals is that the audience is allowed to get involved – all those set pieces where you are expected to applaud, which I actually hate, are what people seem to like.
Reading the article, apart from his SUS chords which went over my head, he seems to focus on the conviction / background of the performers.
Musical theatre in Australia has this pool of the same people doing the shows – same person, voice, persona just different role. cue Marina Prior, Anthony Warlow, Cameron Daddo, Carolyn O’Connor, Lisa Clune, Terry Serio …..yawn.
The problem with traditional musical theatre is that you get perhaps one or two memorable songs, plus a lot of forgettable ones and waffle.
Conversely the new breed of rock musicals (ie We Will Rock You) are chock full of great songs linked by rubbish dialogue/theatricals. I haven’t seen the Kinks one, but I’m guessing it’s the same deal.
As for the sus chords thing mentioned in the article. I know what they are and recognise them in rock/pop, but can’t say I’ve noticed them much in musical theatre.
Hands up all those who thought a sus chord was one not played properly…
I believe at one time Linton Kwesi Johnson was very active in trying to get those sus chords repealed.
No tunes: see also Sondheim.
Ahem… (see below)
Statistically speaking, one hit, lovely as it is, in, what, 50 years = no tunes. As JC says, the exception that proves the rule.
In general, I loathe musical theatre – absolutely loathe it – but somehow Stephen Songheim wrote the most beautiful song in the world for it, and the woman with the most beautiful voice in the world later sang it.
That’s clearly the exception that proves Mike’s rule
If I’d written that I would just stop. You could never do anything better.
Judy Collins of course gave us great early covers of songs by Joni Mitchell, Donovan and, yes, the Incredible String Band. Along with fine interpretations of material by those upstarts Dylan and the Beatles.
She also inspired Stephen Stills’ Suite: Judy Blue Eyes on the first CSN album.
Is Tommy musical theatre ?
Usually referred to as a Rock Opera but I cant see the difference.
Tommy started life as a very good rock album with delusions of grandeur. Pete should have left it there. The songs were always way better than any of the attempts to present on film or stage.
Fie on you, Ken Russell’s film was something other than else.
MMMM baked beans
Don’t you find Tommy became too much of a good thing?
There was the original 1969 Track double album, followed by the Seattle Opera production in 1971, an orchestral version by Lou Reizner in 1972, the Ken Russell film in 1975, and a Broadway musical in 1992 (which is still running somewhere in the world).
Add to that endless variations on CD, live versions from Leeds, Woodstock and elsewhere. A deluxe Super Audio CD in 2003, and a super deluxe box set in 2013, including previously unreleased demos and live material.
It’s like the beans: they’re aiming for 57 varieties..
There was an Australian cast too. Keith Moon came out to play Uncle Ernie.
much preferred Quadrophenia the album and the movie -even that performance with Billy Idol isn’t bad.
Unlike Mr Thep my Who really started with Woodstock and Live At Leeds so for me the Who means thunderous wig out.
Never really bought Tommy (in the conceptual sense). For me the Who were a thunderously loud 3-minute singles band. True, some of their songs told a story (and there were ominous signs of things to come in A Quick One), but the 4 sides of Tommy amply demonstrated Concheroo’s Law: occasional patches of brilliance and a lot of filler.
I didn’t “get” Tommy for years, possibly not until the CD era. Then certain parts of it started to shine through. Pinball Wizard was powerful and immediate of course, but then tracks like Overture, It’s A Boy and Sally Simpson began to reveal their great tunes. I have to be in the mood for Tommy but these days I can stick with it all the way to See Me Feel Me.
It is patchy, as you say, and the concept doesn’t really hold together, but I’ll take it over The Wall any day. If you’ll forgive the expression.
listening to you….
spine-tingling that bit
The chords of See Me Feel Me have always bothered me. Unlike most rock/pop songs the chord sequence is not intuitive. In that sense it really is closer to musical theatre than pop music
Fuck the chord sequence, forever etched is Roger, his golden mane and leather tasselled vest at Woodstock, voice in pretty fine fettle before the band comes crashing in.
Sorrento cinema , 1970.
Like it was yesterday.
in fact listening to the band version – well the super deluxe on Spotify. Holds up rather well esp Pete’s acoustic and Keith when the moment requires
I don’t mind the odd Juke Box musical but a very worrying trend is that these are now being produced without live musicians. Shows are recruiting actors to mime along with a backing track rather than employ genuine actor musicians who can play.
Its all wrong!
‘Mime evvvv-ry mountaaaaain….’
Had the vintage channel on today caught the end of a special about musicals. Phantom of the Opera. The horror the horror.