My daughter and her boyfriend acquired an ‘Amstaff pup’ – for those not aware it is a cross between an America Bulldog and a Staffordshire Bull terrier. Let me declare my stance on dogs – I like them a little bit but would never have one – the thought of picking up dogshit on a daily basis is not something that fills me with joy. Anyway the puppy is about 14 months old now and is absolutely adorable. He wouldn’t hurt a fly and doesn’t have a bad bone in his body. If he was a guard dog he would be absolutely useless. He was also sent for 2 weeks residency obedience training – they both take dog ownership very seriously.
Anyway cut a long story short, around the 25th June my daughter took Blue for a walk in the park
and was horrified as she left the park to be confronted by 3 police officers who told her that a member of the public had reported the dog as being a pitbull and a danger to people/animals. He was confiscated.
About one week after that my daughter was contacted by the complainant demanding money for the damages caused – basically blackmail. The police told my daughter that if the case went through the courts it could take months and she would not get the dog back until after the court case.
In the meantime they would be assessing the dog.
To say she was distraught would be an understatement – I agree to pay the ransom money so that she could get her dog back – basically the police by this time had confirmed that trhe dog was a threat to neither Humans or other dogs. That was the end of it? No not at all.
the dog was finally released a further 4 full days after the complainant had dropped the case because he had been paid off.
No this is the shocking part – when he was returned to my daughter he had bit marks all over his body, his testicles had been sliced open and three of his teeth had been bashed out of him. He had also lost wait and been extremely traumatised to the point when we saw at the weekend he was shaking in his sleep. Thankfully with anti trauma medication and antibiotics he is slowly getting back to normal thanks to the love of my daughter and her boyfriend.
They have lodged a complaint with the police and have a vet report that will back up the injuries. The police have washed their hands of it and denied any wrongdoing which is entirely what you would expect from the Metropolitan police given their record of employing bent coppers and murderers.
The obedience trainer who trained Blue has also trained police dogs and has said that to determine whether a dog is a threat they set aggressive dogs onto it and to test whether it reacts or not. Surely this does not include bashing his teeth out or slicing his testicles open.
Barbaric doesn’t even begin to describe and would be grateful of any suggestions about what direction our complaint should go in and even if we have a case against the blackmailer post settling with him.
(The background to the blackmail part is that my daughter had seen the blackmailer in the park with his dog a chow chow. He asked her if the dogs could play together to which she agreed – they chased each other round the park and nipped each other which is what dogs do. No big deal and she spoke to the owner afterwards with no issues before leaving the park. He obviously decided after the event that there was an opportunity).
If you are animal lover and squeamish do not read this – I need advice
by 51 Comments
Sorry to hear that, S, sounds absolutely awful.
Have you thought about going to the papers? The bigger selling the better.
Given the current climate, they’d be all over a story like this.
That account of how the agressiveness of impounded dogs is assessed sounds fishy to me.
Check with the RSPCA if it’s accurate and if it is, what is their view on dogs being returned injured and traumatised.
I expect the assessment is carried out by a contractor. Perhaps you should inform the police that you have asked the RSPCA to investigate the matter.
As for that other dog owner, he should be informed that his card is hereby marked.
Hi Mike I agree it sounds fishy however it came from a woman dog trainer who worked for and trained police dogs.She spent a week training Blue and I can tell you his behaviour was impeccable. It kind of makes sense that they would get aggressive dogs to try and get an aggressive reaction but bashing his teeth out and slicing his testicles is beyond any acceptable actions. This is not made up – they have a full vet report and the vet was as upset as they were.
What I don’t understand is that the police gave the blackmailer my daughters email address but wouldn’t disclose his contact details to her. Further when the dog had been assessed as being of no danger they wouldn’t release him for more than a further week. In the intervening time we settled with the blackmailer who dropped the charges. It was a further 4 days before he was released which suggested they needed 4 days to try and make him more presentable.
To my mind they also encouraged the blackmail because he had been assessed as no threat which should have been enough to release him.
Instead they have emboldened the claimants to do the same again in the future.
So much for police protection of innocents.
GDPR surely?
They have no right to pass on your daughter’s email address in the first place.
It sounds to me as if the ‘blackmailer’ may himself be one of our finest – can you find out any more in that respect?
Exactly what I thought. I don’t think GDPR has been fully tested through the courts yets, but even under previous data legislation this sharing of contact information would not have been permissible. Anyone (like me) whose job involves personal data is cautious to the utmost degree because the penalties for breach of GDPR are huge – fines of up to £17.5 million.
Actually I didn’t realise the police asked my daughter if they could provide her email details which she agreed to.
God that sounds awful. Sympathies to all especially Blue.
I totally sympathise with your predicament but please please please never say that a dog would never hurt a fly. I have colleagues that have psychological problems and a scar on my face from 20 stitches from dog attacks. And the thing we all have in common is the first we heard after the attack was “he/she has never bitten anyone before”
Dogs should be under control 24/7. Never let them run loose on a property. Put a cage behind your letterbox. If you open a door to receive a parcel put them in another room first. If everybody did that we could perhaps stop the 33!!! Postpeople that are attacked every week. I’m sorry but I think dog owners may have to look at their animals slightly differently.
Now with that off my chest I really hope you get this terrible situation resolved.
Twang Jr got, let’s say, played with by a big dog when he was little. We were out for a walk and this great hound ran up, knocked him over and sort of ran around him. Mrs. T went spare and I tried to push the thing away with my foot so the owner then started shouting at me for kicking his dog… carnage. He did the old “he’s never done that before” routine but it should have been on a lead as he called it and it didn’t obey. I didn’t report it etc as people suggested as no real harm was done, mind you TJ doesn’t like dogs to this day and he’s now bigger than me.
@ip33 I don’t disagree with your sentiment but I can tell you they spent close to a thousand pounds to send him for obedience training and his behaviour is and was exceptional. Unfortunately this incident could potentially make him exceptionally nervous of other dogs – I don’t see what the benefit is of this action. Dog behaviour can be erratic but usually a badly behaved dog is badly behaved because the owners haven’t invested time in the dog.
I have been bitten by a dog myself – it was a friends dog who became nervous when I swatted a wasp close to him. He was a rescue dog who had been traumatised. My daughter and her boyfriend now have to invest time in their dog to ensure he overcomes any trauma.
I urge you to read this. https://www.royalmail.com/personal/dog-awareness
And the first sentence. “Even the most lovable dog can be a danger to postal workers.”
I’m sure that the Dog is very obedient but it should never be loose and always under control. My and my colleagues safety may depend on it.
And again I hope this horrible situation resolves to your satisfaction.
During my short tenure at Royal Mail, some of the rounds had dog warning stickers on individual addresses.
They should have had them on letterboxes too. The worst ones were like Arkwright’s Till (TMFTL)
Had a trip to A+E a few weeks ago Dave because I caught my finger on a razor sharp letterbox. It took a huge slice out of my middle finger and it wouldn’t stop bleeding. The gents toilets at the office looked like an abattoir as I tried and failed to staunch the flow. Hope you well.
I had a similar experience. All good here thanks. I quit because there were small signs of business coming back and I wanted to be available. Early days….
@ip33 postmen do not leave the post anywhere near the front door and do not even enter the steps to the property.
He is not let loose other than in a dog park and only with dogs that he is friendly with.
The claimant asked my daughter if they were okay to play. She said yes and it wasn’t a problem but then became one because he saw an opportunity to make some money. Her trust in other dog owners has now gone and I don’t blame her.
Apparently he is a solicitor – one of those ten a penny law at home deals where anyone can act as a solicitor.
Obviously he thinks he knows the law – I intend to challenge him.
My dogs almost never get let off the lead when we are out and about. The only place they’ve ever been able to run completely free away from their home is on the beach in the far west of Ireland, where the nearest sentient being (or rabbit at least) is over a mile away!
My dogs get to run around unfettered in our garden, pretty much whenever they feel like it. It’s walled and fenced, six feet high. Even a JRT finds that too daunting to attempt the leap.
When we are out and about I use extending leads that are seven metres long; once we are out in the fields they can run 14 metre circles around me all day and get plenty of exercise that way.
If there’s one thing that boils my piss about dogs, it’s some of their owners. The entitled twats who wander about the village and the lanes hereabouts with their off-the-lead labradors (most frequently), yah-yahing to each other while displaying their tribal Schoffels and their flat caps.
Dogs of all kinds should be kept on a lead when out and about, no exceptions, no excuses, no pathetic selfish behaviours that put the dogs at risk, let alone the other people they might encounter. Dogs deserve considerate and intelligent ownership.
I love my dogs, and I owe it to them to look after them properly.
Yes my daughter has now invested in one of those long leads for that very reason.
Yes the long leads are excellent and people who are scared of dogs relax just knowing there’s a lead in use even if the lead is in long mode.
I’m not so sure that those long leads are such a good idea for all dogs though – they might be great for Jack Russells, but trying to stop a powerful and determined dog like an Amstaff once it’s built up a bit of momentum would be quite a challenge, to say the least.
They’re trip hazards on the seafront here.
If the owners let them become trip hazards around other people, its the owners who are the problem. Yet again.
You have to use them with a degree of intelligence, it’s sure. Even a JRT (8kgs of muscle) can build up a head of momentum over the length of a decent extended lead. With nearly 15 metres run-up from directly behind you to directly in-front of you at full pelt, a JRT has the ooomph of a small Toyota. I have had the aching fingers to prove it when unexpectedly emerging rabbits have been involved.
That’s why you use a halter-style collar for large breeds. You are steering the dog from its nose rather than its neck. Imagine trying to steer a horse from its neck?
I use well fitted harnesses on my Jack Russells; it isn’t just a good idea for large breeds. Controlling an excited or alarmed dog via a neck collar alone is extremely unwise, very ineffective and dangerous to the dog’s health.
This is the brand we use; “Perfect Fit”.
I can highly recommend them. If you want one, phone them up, they are very helpful and will help you to buy the exact parts you need to asemble a custom fit for your dog. It uses a modular build system, and the range of component parts available allows you to get a secure yet comfortable fit for any animal. The web page also has a diagram showing why a traditional neck collar is such a poor tool.
I should add that I do not work for them or get paid to promote their products; I am a very satisfied customer, that’s all.
https://www.dog-games-shop.co.uk/perfect-fit-fleece-dog-harness.html
Ooh, they look great. Our Betty has always been a bit of a puller on the outbound leg of her walks and one of those would have been a great help, particularly when she was younger.
Which reminds me of the dog walker who was taking one of next door’s huskies out when for some reason it decided to take flight and the sudden unexpected tug propelled her into a parked car. Most of the street heard her scream and then it all went quiet. When we got there she was unconscious and face down next to a Focus estate with a large dent in it. When she came round, she was pretty concussed and had what turned out to be a dislocated shoulder but otherwise in one piece.
Never mind her, was the Husky ok?!
The halter collar is like a bridle and the lead comes off the chin. If a dog pulls ahead it simply turns in a circle. I’m not talking about choke collars etc.
Yes I realise that. It’s just that the average canine-nooby see the word ‘collar’ and automatically visualises an attachment point on a loop around the neck, which is bad news for the dog.
The ‘Perfect fit’ system also has an attachment point under the chin, just like a halter, so you can use that either instead of, or even as well as, the one between and slightly behind the shoulder blades.
For a feisty JRT I prefer the attachment on the rear of the harness; its exactly above the centre of gravity of the dog. It’s even possible, in extremis, to lift the animal off the ground vertically using it, leaving a rampant terrier still horizontal but no longer getting any leg traction with terra firma, so you can swiftly and easily scoop the little sod up until he/she calms down.
@yorkio my daughters dog has an ‘e-collar’ that soon puts a stop to any erratic behaviour by him.
This was destroyed by the police too and has cost £ 300 to replace.
I’m loath to weigh in on this, but here I go. As I’ve mentioned around these parts before, I was a veterinarian for about 12 years (up until around 15 years ago). I can tell you that pretty much every clinic I worked at would have gone broke if not for the gift of Staffordshire bull terriers and their ilk, and their habit of biting other dogs, and occasionally people. They are famously friendly dogs, until they aren’t. These are breeds that were selected for their fighting ability and they can deliver a devastating nip due to the power of their bite.
Another important point is that a large proportion of nasty dog bites leave no external mark, initially. The most devastating bites occur when a dog pulls the skin off the underlying tissue. They initially look normal, or maybe have a small puncture wound or two, but then over a few days the overlying tissue, including the skin, starts to die off which is quite a nasty situation to resolve. So an initial thought is “Are you sure your dog did not cause an injury?”. Can you request a veterinary report from the other party?`
The piece about the condition your dog was returned in sounds very fishy. Sounds like it was kept in a kennel/run with other (presumably dangerous) dogs and they don’t want to fess up to it. Can you ask to see where the dog was kenneIled? also think that their test for aggressive dogs sounds like it has gone through a few layers of misunderstanding in the description. As described, every dog would fail the test if set on by aggressive dogs.
My final thought is in your comment about the cut on the testicles, which reveals that your dog has testicles. Having a non-neutered dog from a fighting breed in a suburban environment is asking for trouble, regardless of their training.
So I guess my take-away is that I’ve seen this situation play out thousands of times from both sides, from the owners of pets that were injured by dogs and from owners who are incredulous that their beloved family pet has just turned into a killing/fighting machine. If I were you, I’d be at least a bit open to the possibility that more happened in the park that day than you thought.
Top observations there. I missed the fact that the dog isn’t (or wasn’t) neutered – it really ought to be. All three of the JRT males I’ve owned over the last thirty years have been neutered. I’ve been at terrier club meetings with my dogs in the past, and overheard remarks along the lines of, ‘What a cracking looking dog, what a shame he’s been neutered’. To do your own dog justice you need to be able to ignore these idiots – the same throw-backs who once engaged in dog-fights and bull-baiting – and give your dog his best chance of leading a long and happy life amongst people and other dogs in a peaceful, stress and injury free way.
It is possible that more happened in the park that day but my daughter asked for photographic evidence and none was forthcoming nor did the accuser specifically say that his dog had been injured. His words were that ‘he had time to reconsider’ – we have this in writing.
My daughter has also asked in writing for the police to show her where Blue was kennelled which they are currently refusing to do.
The next step is to take it to the press and thankfully my daughter has many contacts within the BBC and other news organisations that will be willing to help her.
I am no expert on dogs – far from it – however to categorise this dog as a fighting breed is a bit of joke. He doesnt even bark for Gods sake. I know they are a fighting breed but this one has failed miserably if that is the case.
Whatever risk there is of any latent capability existing to demonstrate very unwelcome behaviour would be simply and greatly reduced by having him castrated. I think that would be a sensible kindness. The longer you leave him entire the less the calming effect of the procedure is, so it’s best done early in his life so that he can proceed through a happy life unencumbered by the social burden of unwanted testosterone.
Something also that might benefit a large number of owners………
I don’t disagree with that Vulpes but spoke with my daughter about it and different dog ‘experts’ are giving her different views. I think they will get it done sooner rather than later.
As coincidence would have it, this article appeared today.
Breed of dog that killed newborn ranks highest for attacks in NSW, but expert says focus should be ‘deed not breed’
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-13/fatal-dog-attacks-american-staffordshire-terrier/100286872
If I saw that dog I would be shit scared.
My daughters dog looks nothing like it whatsoever.
I don’t know about those, but having walked a small docile dog past a house sporting a Canario as shown below, which was loose on the front (unfenced) lawn of a house, I have nothing but contempt for those who think it clever to perpetuate the breeding of dogs that have been selected for their ability to fight other dogs.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Presacanariobody.jpg
The dog in question belonged to the sort of testosterone monster you’d expect, 300 pounds of unintelligence, tattooed to within a square inch of his skin, covered in piercings and short of grace. The sort of man you’d cross the road to avoid passing, except that his dog would likely cross the road as well, looking for trouble and eager to threaten you. I was told anecdotally that the dog had had its front teeth filed to points, but I didn’t believe it until I saw it snarl. At me.
I felt very sorry for the poor animal, but wished nothing but unpleasantness – preferably fatal – towards its stupid owner.
If you’re not happy with the conduct of the police involved, it can be helpful to contact the IOPC. It’s a long process but can stop police officers acting like this in the future, and the dog officers in this case should face misconduct proceedings IMO.
I’d be tempted to get in touch with https://doglaw.co.uk and see what they make of it.
As a dog owner and confirmed dog lover this thread is heartbreaking. Ours is a Battersea staff, lab, German Shepherd cross with a little bit of bulldog. She is lovely and gentle and all those things. But we are hugely aware of a couple of things. She’s only snapped once at a little dog who wouldn’t leave her feet alone. It was frightening and my partner now deliberately changesc her route to avoid the house where the little dog lives. Dogs are dogs. She chases. Squirrels and twice roe deer. It is frightening. So now our lovely gentle dog spends most of her walks unless where we’re absolutely sure, on her lead, which she hates.. ( thanks for the lead advice @Vulpes-Vulpes ). This is owning a dog, especially a rescue. The bit even Paul O’Grady misses out.
On top of that since lockdown 1 things have changed. We live in between Slough and Windsor with The Thames and Jubilee River nearby. People have changed, new people walk where we used to just see the same old faces and dogs. Dog theft has increased in the area dramatically. Blackmail seems to be a thing if your dog is lost by chancers preying on our love of dogs. It’s just different
Ours is 7 now and owning a dog where we live should give them the best life but I feel things have changed so much in the five and a half years we’ve had her that i doubt we’ll own a dog again while we live here.
Steve’s whole story just confirms those thoughts. Yes we all need to be aware of our dogs potential for trouble however well trained they are. It strikes me though that the world now sees dogs as an opportunity. I suspect this dog was set up for this days, maybe weeks I advance. When he’s recoveed from his ordeal get him neutered, stay on your guard and keep him on a lead as much as possible would be my advice.
Thanks Dave. My daughter also thinks she was set up – it is odd that the ‘ransom’ money was almost the same as the value of the dog.
Dog theft is becoming a problem and one of the reasons they will only let him off the lead now in select places.
Pretty outrageous.
Dog theft has exploded during coronavirus. Crims having to diversify, I suppose.
As a dog owner of many years I read this post with despair. Bottom line though is that you have to be able control your dog regardless of breed or temperament. Round where I live it’s almost a bylaw that you have to have cockapoo – which of course , according to their owners, are harmless apart from jumping all over you with muddy paws and barking incessantly whilst oblivious owner sips her takeaway Costa coffee and chats to her mates. Last year we acquired a very large Newfoundland cross who’s as soft as a brush BUT we never let him off the lead where there are other people and dogs unless they are happy for him to have a play. But now the thought that someone could then try and blackmail us is a bit chilling.
I feel incrdibly lucky to be able to leave the garden, amble 100 yards, and be in fields and meadows where I can walk with my dogs for miles without having to cross anything busier than a farm track.
As I’ve said, the Russells are always on the lead when we do this each day. Having experimented with off-the-lead walks some years ago now (I’ve learned from experience) I still shudder with the memory of one of my old boys, rolling along unclipped from his lead, suddenly accelerating to warp speed and disappearing through a blackthorne hedge into a mature field of head-high maize in pursuit of a large dog fox that had just sauntered past us. There was absolutely no way for me to follow after him. I bellowed for him to come back to me, and blew my ultrasonic whistle as hard as I could to recall him. Luckily for me (and him) he returned the way he had gone after only 20 seconds or so, the fox presumably having haughtily disappeared into the dense crop, laughing at the stupid terrier behind him. It felt a lot longer than 20 seconds to me though. At the far end of the field that was full of maize is the main railway line to Swansea; train tracks being a typical fox escape route if pursued.
A farmer friend a few miles away had a JRT related to one of mine, as well as a ‘rescue’ lurcher. Being a huge dairy farm in an isolated valley, their dogs were routinely loose around the farm buildings, and on most days would be found snoring by the Aga waiting for the next meal. On high summer days though, the dogs would wander around the place a little, looking for mischief. One particular day, a Muntjac had the great misfortune to stroll past the farmhouse when the dogs were on the prowl. Between the two of them they pursued and brought the poor deer down and killed it in a ditch. The little deer put up a spirited fight, sufficient to damage the JRT to within an inch of his life. The vet bill reached four figures, but he survived. Needless to say, his degrees of freedom, and those of his lurcher accomplice, were subsequently curtailed.
It doesn’t matter where you live, you have to understand that dogs evolved as hunting animals, and still have – buried, perhaps, but still present – all of the traits you’d expect them to have had surviving in packs on the plains.
If my daughter was living at home we would have no problem – endless deserted fields that Blue loves.
He has no need for other dog interaction – he is happy with family and a good run out.
@Vulpes-Vulpes
Given that you mentioned up the page that you live in the West of Ireland, I think you and I must live reasonably close to one and other (I’m in Roscommon)
While far from an everyday occurrence in the rural area where I live, dog attacks on sheep, etc, are enough of a concern for many farmers to display signs on their land warning that unaccompanied/unrestrained dogs found on their land will be shot. I was talking to my late uncle about this and he told me it’s amazing how fast even the friendliest and most well-trained will revert to its feral roots when it falls in with a pack of strays.
Indeed, the instincts are not far below the surface. It happens in the UK too; the well-known shepherd from Cumbria, James Rebanks, can attest to the awful certainty that he may reluctantly have to shoot a dog one day to save a sheep.
@jaygee Our adventures in the West of Ireland have been confined to holidays I’m afraid, though I confess that if I could afford it I’d move to the republic in a flash to see out my days. I know where Roscommon is, having driven past the road sign many a time on our usual drive cross-country up from Rosslare (ferry from Pembroke) to Tullamore to join the main road out to Galway. We have stayed in a cottage right out next to the sea near Ballyconneely for a fortnight every year for well over a decade; it’s only our old dog’s very advanced age – and the pandemic – that have curtailed our trips for the last two summers. We will go back, we love the country.
@Vulpes-Vulpes
Fingers crossed that when the eejits in charge of the pandemic on either side of the Irish Sea manage to get COVID under some kind of control you’ll get back over. In which case, drop me a line, take the turning for Roscommon and we’ll meet up for lunch. Alternatively, I’ll jump in the car and meet you in Galway.
Hope your dog is OK. It’s heartbreaking when it’s time for them to go
Sounds like a plan! Thank you.
The old boy is 18 now, and still full of beans, but he does get tired easily and a couple of miles is his walkies limit. I’d love to let him run on the beach again at the cottage. We’ll see…