I am not a fan of him (or his party) in any way, but I do agree with the proposal to phase out smoking laid out in Rishi Sunaks speech at conference yesterday. It seems like a step forward for public health & is a good move.
The cynic in me does think that this is exactly the sort of announcement used to divert attention away from the fact that they are failing badly on poverty & that foodbanks are now widely used etc., but I am still for it.
There is a wider issue here & that is should a PM be able to enact whatever new laws he/she wants without it being part of a manifesto etc?. It is quite indicative of how much of a mess politics is at the moment.
Anyway, to try & put a bit of a lighter note on this (& following on from a conversation me & my partner had about this), what law would you bring in if you were in charge?
Some rules to keep this light (and civil, I promise i have not raised this to start an angry thread!). How about just sticking to the jokey ones? I’ll kick us off;
Politicians should have to display prominently the companies they are paid by &/or have shares in etc. They should be worn like a sponsor as you see in professional snooker players. It would make it a lot easier to see the intentions of a politician pushing for fewer rules on dumping sewage whilst wearing a United Utilities logo on their jacket.
How about the rest of you?
* credit to a contributor in Mark Thomas’ ‘The Peoples Manifesto’ for mine. It just makes sense though!
Reverse every aspect of Brexit and apologise to our friends in Europe.
As someone who voted to Remain, I am not sure it’s quite that straightforward. Many lower paid people, ( myself inluded) in a number of sectors, have seen their wages increase by twice the UK average post Brexit. I am not sure I would want to see them cut back again. Similarly, Indian friends have been able to come and work in health and care jobs previously closed to them. They are better qualified and/or have better English than most of the Europeans they have effectively replaced.
Genuinely, these are the first examples I have heard of Brexit being a tangible benefit.
Decriminalize dope smoking (not 100% sure about full legalization)
Germany’s just done that. After banning smoking almost anywhere (they talked about a smoking ban in people’s own houses…), the German minister of health has legalised dope and is even setting up government-sponsored »Private Growing Clubs« to encourage punters to use their garden accordingly.
We have had full legalization in Canada for quite a few years, it’s currently easier to buy cannabis than alcohol in many parts of Ontario such is the proliferation of stores. I have 3 within walking distance of my house. They won’t surely all survive, but so far society has not fallen apart. Some of the big companies set up to grow the stuff have had a rocky road though. They grew (!) big very quickly and then redundancies and closures followed
That cannabis should be legal for adults I agree 100%. Apart from anything else, I think sending people to prison for personal use is ridiculous and unsustainable. The problem, though, is with adolescents, for whom it can have very negative mental effects. Leaving production, distribution and sale in the hands of crims clearly isn’t the wisest option in that regard, but I’m still interested to see the long-term effects of legalisation on adolescent consumption before making my mind up.
You have to be 19 in Ontario to buy it, same age as alcohol. You need a valid ID (driving licence) to buy even if you are 83. Of course the system can be abused as has always been the case with cigarettes and alcohol
@gary
Sadly agree with your comment about adolescents. Have spent the last 5 years trying to live with a violent drug addled thief who sees no wrong with his behaviours. The sad thing is he can be a lovely charming boy but just not often.
I’m sorry to hear that, Freddy. I started smoking marijuana as an adult in my 30s as a recreational drug and now I also appreciate its medicinal value. So from a purely personal perspective, I would love to see it legalised where I live. But I’m not yet convinced that’s best way to prevent/discourage use by adolescents. Peter Hitchens argues that rather than legalisation we should clamp down far harder on the dealers. But that rather ignores the fact that it’s a plant. Anyone with access to a private bit of land can grow and sell it. How do you effectively police that? Like legislating against rhubarb. I think we really need to see whether legalising for adults will make it harder or easier for adolescents to illegally obtain it. (I’ve read a couple of online papers that say there has been no substantial change in adolescent consumption since its 2016 legalisation in California, but generally it seems the jury is still out among researchers.)
Yep, it’s certainly a complex matter. The odd raid on a drug dealer isn’t the full answer for sure. Will be interesting to see if, long term, legislation has any effect.
I know many people can smoke it with no issues. Unfortunately for our family, that hasn’t happened. It’s not just the weed, it’s the lifestyle, people he hangs around with and the other substances that it can lead to on our case.
We’re hanging on and just about keeping him out of jail long term but only just. The police wouldn’t let him live in our home for nearly a year which gave us a break.
The problem with “street” marijuana and young people now is the prevalence of Skunk. It’s quite a different proposition to the “normal” varieties of cannabis, which seem to be less widely available now in the UK.
I was a pot smoker for about 25 years (1967-1992) starting at age 16. I think the other psychoactive things I was consuming along with pot in the early years of experimentation were the most dangerous to me.
The Moroccan and Lebanese hash we had access to then were pretty mild stuff compared to the skunk that’s now available.
A tiny few of us reacted badly to hash and grass in those days but that was probably a smaller proportion to those who reacted badly (addiction, agressive behaviour) to alcohol.
In our son’s case, alcohol and the other substances he indulges in are certainly not a good combination
Very sorry to read this, Freddy. Went through something vaguely similar once upon a time, wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I hope that you and yours come through it quickly and without any lasting damage done.
Thank you Bingo. We live our life day by day, if not hour by hour at times.
He is back with us at the moment. Working doing garden clearances which is a really good physical job for him. But it’s precarious getting him up every morning. And every penny he earns disappears. Every single penny. He’s 20 shortly and we have told him he finally needs to pay keep…
PS. How did you keep your sanity?
I honestly don’t know. I wasn’t the parent in my scenario, which helped, but I had nightmares about it for years after and to this day I keep my phone near me in case something awful happens, because there was a period when awful things seemed to happen quite regularly. This was all 15-20 years ago, but the mark is still there.
I have a tendency to believe I can fix anything if only I can find the right words. For me, a lot of the struggle was realising that I couldn’t fix jack, because you can’t help someone who isn’t ready to be helped. In fact, sometimes the love and support you give can actually make things worse because you end up enabling them.
I got on with my life, I built myself some happiness, and I was there waiting with love in my heart when the people in question bottomed out and were genuinely ready to change. It felt like nothing I did hastened them to that point. I just sort of focused on making sure they didn’t drag me under with them, so that the lifeboat would still be there if they ever decided to swim for it.
Honestly, if you’re in the middle of it just try to be gentle with yourselves, recognise there isn’t some magic button you’re failing to find and that this is another human being’s journey to which you’re ultimately a spectator up to a point. That last one is a bitter pill to swallow, but it’s what helped me in the end and gave me permission to get on with my own life. However much it goes against instinct, you have to protect yourself.
There are so many similarities there Bingo.
The feeling of being a spectator, such a draining hopeless feeling. The realisation that we have been enabling his behaviour though I think we’re finally facing up to it.
We have our phones constantly charged, wallets hidden, booze locked away.
We do try to remain positive though honest. He’s not disappeared to a crackhouse for sometime…
Keep on keeping on, Freddy. Make sure you lean on your friends and other family for support. Don’t try to hide the problem away – we did that for a while too, and it makes it worse.
I can only wish you all the best with it. Per the above, a part of me is looking for the magic words for you too, but they don’t really exist. Just put one foot in front of the other, do what it takes to keep your own life on an even keel and hopefully you’ll eventually pop out the other side of it all.
Big love.
Thanks. Wise words which resonate.
Wot Bingo said, Feddy.
My BIL’s best friend turned out to be a high-functioning smack addict into his 40s, until his internal organs gave up on him. It didn’t end very well, as you might imagine.
It’s effectively being decriminalised for years. No one in England or Wales gets sent to prison for personal use.
This is probably true. The stench in public turns my stomach these days.
Me too. Sorry to hear your woes FS. Mine is at uni and I still worry…
You always worry @twang
Thanks.
As I say to him, “it’s my job”.
It’s effectively being decriminalised for years.
Ban the word ‘vinyls’.
And, furthermore, ban the word ‘vinlys’.
You beat me to it!
It’ll be interesting when we have 40 year olds asking 41 year olds to buy some fags for them.
Being generally annoying to other people will become illegal. Talking too loudly at a gig and/or filming the whole show on your massive iPad? Jail for you! Not giving up your seat on a train for a pregnant woman or frail old person? Jail! Standing in a shop doorway to look at your phone while busy people (me) are trying to get past? JAIL!!! (Harsh but fair, I’m sure you’ll agree…)
Phew, I feel better now…
Can we add talking on a mobile whilst being served in a shop/pub?
Yes, very much so .. the level of ignorance shown is infuriating.
Especially when rather than speak to the person serving they just point at stuff they want rather than pause the oh so important conversation
(because if it was an important call then they would not be standing in a queue in a shop)
Also the headsets that you see in supermarkets.
I heard some charming ladies on the till at Aldi passing judgement on another customer whilst I was being served. Dread to think what they said about me as I left!
I would also add talking on your mobile whilst using a urinal at the pub. Ugh!
Back when I worked at the office, there was someone who would routinely take calls whilst on the throne. I’d go into the adjacent stall and flush it, then wash my hands and use the noisy hand-dryer, and he’d still be on his call.
He’d never wash his hands, either, despite the posters warning of viruses.
How are they planning on making up the tax shortfall in the short term before the possible savings in health care appear?
Start taxing meat!
Tax revenue from tobacco in the 2022-2023 tax year was £10 Billion.
In the same year, Income tax netted £249Bn, National Insurance contributions netted £178Bn and VAT netted £160Bn. Between them, Fuel Duty and Vehicle Excise Duty netted £35Bn. Alcohol Duty netted £10.5Bn.
What with all of those and the other taxes that are taken, the tobacco tax is very small beer. Probably 1% or less of the total.
Nevertheless, £10bn is equivalent to a 2% rise in Income Tax.
Doesn’t have to just be added onto income tax though, does it? It could be spread across all taxation. And a total ban on cigarettes would result in a fall of tobacco-related sickness so tax-funded health costs would be reduced accordingly.
Pie in the sky, because they won’t actually be doing it.
Currently, vaping fluids are not subject to tobacco duty, just to VAT at 20%. Personally, I think a reduced rate of tobacco duty should be applied as well. Not the full rate, because it’s desirable to try and wean smokers off cigarettes and vaping has had some success in that.
On the other side of the coin, as nonsmokers generally live longer, there would be a rise in state pension payouts
No, it doesn’t. The Income Tax figure is just a way of illustrating the costs. As for vaping, I supect that the current concerns about the prevalence of vaping amongst young people means there is every chance of it becoming very expensive. of
Having a conversation in public with your phone on speaker mode.
“I’M ON THE TRAIN!”
Hold the bloody thing up to your ear and whisper, or face being locked up in an echoey room with lots of other people loudly having their calls on speakerphone.
You can’t throw people off moving trains anymore.
Health and safety gone mad!
Politicians should answer the question being asked.
I think you mean truthfully and not talking b#llocks.
I’m very glad you asked that question Johnb and I know the British people aren’t actually interested in that question but let me say this.
Yup that’s exactly what I was meaning
After a fair and open public consultation, possibly taking another 13 years, I would make a clear and definitive decision on whether it is Aitch S2 or Haitch S2.
Sitting in your stationary car, with the engine running, jabbing away at your mobile comforter, sorry, phone, should henceforth be illegal.
Oh, it already is?
(Stationary idling is an offence under Sect. 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 – if the engine is running you are legally ‘in charge of the vehicle’, not ‘safely parked’ and may NOT use a mobile phone.)
OK then, making every car driver aware of this fact should be mandatory, and the punishment for subsequently ignoring the law should be the immediate confiscation and crushing of the car in question.
Returning your headlight to full beam when you realise that the oncoming light is only a cyclist, to be punished supernaturally by the safe but immediate deflation of two of your tyres (motorcycles exempt).
Cyclists riding on the road using lights.
Don’t see too many of them round these here parts.
Perhaps if they worse some high viz clothing instead of head to toe black
Come to my corner and you will find me vizzed up and lit as required.
Leaving rear fog lights on when there is no fog (or using them when it’s a bit dull and rainy) shall be forbidden (and punishable by a hammer breaking the offending lights, which will render your vehicle liable for a charge of defective lights). Turn the flipping thins off!
Seconded. Saw one in broad daylight only yesterday, in perfect visibility. Had a P plate too, so unless it was a different driver they’d have been reading the highway code not so long ago.
Re original post I am an ex smoker and generally loathe cigarettes.
However Rishi Sunaks proposal is another example of State meddling. What about freedom of choice for the individual? Since smoking is banned from all indoor venues I don’t see that it hurts anyone else and the NHS is sufficiently fucked that banning smoking will not heal the mess it is in.
On the frivolous side I would ban self service check out counters at supermarkets and ernploy actual prople.
Nah, fuck ‘em. Just ban tobacco. There would be contraband of course but most people would just be grumpy for a week or two then wonder why they ever bothered with it. Vaping and E-cigs would be permitted for a transition period of a few months.
Cobblers @SteveT. mutter mutter. Social Contract. mutter mutter. Speed Limits? What about individual freedom of choice? mutter mutter. State meddling telling me what speed I can drive? mutter mutter.
I’m with you on this. I am quite staggered that this is being brought in by a government containing so many who style themselves libertarians.
I’ve never smoked, apart from the occasional cigar. I am happy for the state to protect me from others, so smoking bans in public places are fine, but if people want to smoke in private, I think that’s their business.
Utterly bizarre policy to trumpet, given the position the Tories are in. But then, I guess he knows he’ll never actually need to deliver it.
Agree with you entirely. If we’ve established that it’s for the government to protect people from themselves/creating costs for the NHS then why stop with smoking? Why not also ban alcohol, gambling and junk food? Thin end of the wedge.
All academic anyway, but what a hill to die on.
Possibly because, in relative terms, smoking still kills so many people. About 60,000 a year last time I checked., about 8.5 x the number of alcohol related deaths.
Yeah, let’s repeal the seat belt legislation too! After all, that clunk-click bloke was a perve, wasn’t he? Let people choose to waste NHS time and money pasting them back together after a shunt. If people want to drive unbelted in the privacy of their own little tin bubbles, let them!
What about freedom of choice for the children and other dependants of smokers, in the home?
How far do you go, then, in interfering in private life or what goes on in a home?
Alcohol? Enforced control over what children watch on tv? State-mandated diets?
Not a smoker, not even a one. But this proposed ban strikes me as overweening interference from the State.
It strikes me as the latest example of (No-longer-quite-so) Dishy Rishi gaily flinging policy ideas in the air to see if one will fly
What age do we think children should be allowed to buy cigarettes from?
This seems to be a notion that hasn’t really been thought through. Presumably, in 20 years time, assuming baccy hasn’t been completely banned by then, shopkeepers are going to be asking 40 and 50 year olds for ID before they can buy the stuff to make sure the 35 year olds aren’t served.
There’s a chain of fag shops in Oz called Free Choice.
I’m reminded of my late uncle, who was virulently opposed to compulsory seat belts, crash helmets and fluoride. Because, you know, free choice.
I can’t remember who first proposed it, but I agree with the proposal that you can vote on reality shows or in elections, but not for both.
I like that. Also consider life imprisonment for anyone who’s been on a reality show, it would take out a lot of odious individuals.
Similarly: you can own a gun or vote, but not both. USA fixed overnight (possibly).
First off, I’d ban keeping tomatoes in the fridge. Then I might make having a dog compulsory. Perhaps only if you’ve got a garden. Though I think I’ll have to think that one through a bit more.
other fridge-ban items: eggs, ketchup, salad cream.
And on the subject of fridges – supermarkets to increase the temperature slightly – maybe I’m just getting old, grumpy and over-sensitive but I’m convinced they have reduced the temperature in the fridge aisles to sub-zero
Ridge if I may call you that.
Your three fridge ban items I would ban completely not just from the fridge.
I am the Salad Cream Preservation Society
(I wonder if there’s a concept album in that thought?)
God bless salad cream and Heinz’s 57 varieties
👏 👏 👏
@Rigid-Digit
Is there a waiting list? How long before I can join
Saiad cream (from the fridge) sandwiches were a great favourite of mine when younger
Littering…death penalty. Harsh but fair.
If one regards the act of felling the Sycamore Gap tree at Hadrian’s Wall as littering perhaps the fallen timber could be used to fashion a gibbet for the bastard who chopped it down.
That would make a nice sunrise photo opportunity to replace the tree.
Death penalty for the first offence, second offence a fine.
Driving offences serious enough to warrant a prison sentence should also get you a whole-life driving ban.
Driving after being disqualified for life should get you at least 5 years inside.
Causing death by dangerous driving/driving under the influence should be punished the same as manslaughter using a deadly weapon.
Anyone who has been affected – or has had a friend or family member affected – by cancer, heart disease, dementia, the myriad genetic diseases, etc. shall be allowed to bitch-slap any anti-vivisectionists shaking their collection bucket in the High Street. Or anywhere else they might be found.
Charge cold callers that come to your house the same as a first class stamp before you open the door.
When using public transport, anyone who listens to music/watches YouTube clips without headphones will be deported to a Siberian gulag, where they will be forced to a) watch back-to-back episodes of Emmerdale, and b) master the recorder.
Too cruel.
Eating smelly food on public transport to be punished with 6 months chained to a dungeon wall and fed stale bread and water only.
But then we would miss the occasional anecdote from @elhombremalo about who’s eating what and why on the No 6 bus…
I ‘spect we’d all cope.
If we’re not careful, we’re going to entice Laurence Fox to our ranks
Presumably as part of our schedule of punishments.
A far worse punishment would involve sentencing an errand AWer to repeated listens to one of LF’s albums
The smoking one is an odd one. I’d love to see fags go, but illegality will open up an illicit market and fan the rebellious, I.E. the young, to start smoking. Backstreet deals: got any Bensons, mate?
I saw this point made in yesterday’s paper. Levels of smoking in teenagers have drifted down to near negligible levels, meaning that it’s yet another ‘solution to a problem that didn’t exist in the first place (see also voter ID). Prohibition will almost certainly create criminal activity that didn’t previously exist – oh, well done! As for telling a younger generation that they can’t legally do what an older generation can – now who could possibly predict the outcome.
The smoking of cigarettes is pretty much an exclusively old-person’s habit now.
The young are quite enthusiastically taking up vaping, though. Consequences of this to be examined in ten years time or so.
☝This!
I get your point but I don’t think Voter ID is such a great example of a solution to a non-existent problem, it’s a method of barring voters from voting (especially younger or poorer ones… see where I’m going with this? 🙂), and as a bonus handily fits in with the desire of givernment to control its population.
A twelve-month driving ban for pavement parking.
There’s a lot of sactioned pavement parking around here because basically either there’d be no traffic flow on a busy residential road or no parking at all.
Lighting a BBQ without asking your neighbours to take their washing in first. Punisable by food poisoing (which is a 50/50 chance, anyway).
Me Party; some sample policies.
All caravans and motorhomes to be painted green, and have the word ‘Anal’ above/in front of their brand name.
All serious fcuk-off sized agricultural tractors to be replaced by Ferguson TE-20s.
Use of the word ‘fayre’, rather than ‘fair’ in the context of an event banned.
Any car which has been fitted with one of those stupid, unnecessary pop-off valves that go ‘ahhhhh’ like Maria Sharapova to be crushed.
Only ‘sleeve’ (straight) pint glasses to be allowed in pubs.
Referendum on whether by definition a pie has to have a crust all round, or if a pastry lid suffices.
Great idea for a thread: is a cottage pie a pie?
Ha, yes. If they are, then why isn’t a crumble or cobbler a pie? Personally, can’t abide Cottage or Shepherd’s pie. One of the few things I won’t eat. Them, raw celery, avocado.
Them! You wouldn’t want to eat a whole one.
Aargh!
Wow, didn’t think it was possible to dislike Shepherd’s Pie. Btw Cottage Pie is known as Pâté chinois in Quebec (Chinese Pie), that confused me for a while. Allegedly because it is all that was available for Chinese workers to eat whilst working on building the Canadian Pacific Highway
Does pizza become a pie when it’s folded into a calzone?
Americans seem to call all pizzas a pie. Ridiculous
No that’s amore
I suspect it becomes a pie if the filling needs a harbour wall to contain it. Most things, thus, become pies in the US.
Discussed this with my son today and a calzone is a pasty.
Chicago pizzas have a very thick wall as stated above and are therefore pies. Though of course they could be a flan.
“Calzone” is Italian for “big sock”. So it’s a big sock.
I see no need for further discussion.
Is a fish pie a pie?
I hope so, because I’m very fond of a fish pie.
Bring back barrel glasses! And while you’re at it, introduce tighter sparklers to the beer pumps of the southern half of England. Sensible policies for a happier Britain!
Tulip glasses surely, less chance of slipping from your hand.
Barrel glasses were what I learned to drink from so barrel glasses it must be.
By barrel glasses, I assume you mean those ghastly glass tankards that used to be everywhere in the 1970S.
Like CGU, I’m a straight glass only drinker
Can’t remember when I was last asked for ‘sleeve or tankard’.
Those very tall sleeves in which p1ssy beer seems to be put are too tall, though.
Listen to Michael Caine at this point
And while you’re doing so, look at the hand of the guy next to him in the pub (apparently then one of the toughest in Newcastle)
I had a pint in a proper jug at the Prospect of Whitby this week. No choice offered, just there you go, handle, dimples and all. Proper pie too.
You’re a big man to admit that, @chiz, but your drinking vessel is clearly in bad shape
Looking at this thread, a large majority of the contributors should be in handcuffs, worn behind their backs.
Either that or in jackets lacking conventional sleeves
If us lot were in charge, we really would be in trouble!
these are the jokey ones, at least we’re not in charge our government are bad enough.
I did contemplate suggesting to whoever is the home secretary at the moment to stop the boats they should just drain the channel but I’d fear they’d contemplate how to do it.
Such a grandiose and futile project certainly would have been contemplated if Johnson was still in charge
Mobile phone users who have conversations on speaker phone, or who hold their phone flat in one hand, away from their mouth.
All names like latte and americano to be done away with; all coffee shops will serve black coffee, with cold milk alongside or syrups.
‘Craft’ and ‘Artisan’ to be banned as descriptors of food or drink.
No bottle of gin to retail at over £20.
I read recently there was a german word for holding ones phone flat, alas I can’t remember it but it translated as something like “talking into a biscuit”. Biscuit was certainly involved.
“Biscuit was certainly involved.”
I find that true of most things.
The word you’re thinking of is
𝔴𝔞𝔫𝔨𝔢𝔯𝔰𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔦𝔷𝔢𝔯
(pronounced – van-cuh-shi-zur)
How wholly splendid!
I’ve wondered if there was a German word for ‘using a German word which describes what English needs a sentence to’.
Hervorragend!
@duc01
Gesundheit!
That’s a good one. Coffee shops to serve filte or cafetiere coffee, and offer a variety of beans, not pretend that one type of espresso tricked out dozens of ways offers choice.
All the silly names are to unsettle you and get you thinking their way, and spending money. I want a coffee, and I want it my way.
I just want a mug of coffee. No milk, no sugar, no other flavourings – just a mug of coffee, and a watered down espresso under the name of an Americano is not a substitute.
Twas ever thus as Anthony Aloysius St John Hancock expressed.
Liz: Espresso or cappuccino?
Tony: I’ll have a white one with no froth
Liz: No froth?
Tony: I don’t like froth!
Liz: That’s half the attraction, you must have froth!
Tony: I don’t want any froth! I want a cup of coffee, I dont want to wash my clothes in it!
Isn’t that what “house blend” is? At least over here it comes from a separate huge flask thing
Standard coffee often gets called Americano in many places in Europe and Asia.
Having relatives in Toronto who absolutely loathe the landmass south of the 49th parallel and most of those who live there, I can appreciate why a cup of house blend might prove more palatable
But we are (North) Americans too! And it’s Canadian Thanksgiving today btw
“Fucking, ey!” as my cousin Noel might say!
I’d ban people banning things
Let us smoke, eat ultra processed foods whilst drinking coke. With vodka. Or not if you don’t want to
You know what, everyone will die one day, and as I recently found out just enjoy the ride whilst you’re here. Because everything is temporary so banning this shit is just a waste of time
I wish my GP was like you.
Although it does help avoid back injuries in nurses and porters who have to manhandle* obese alcoholics with no lung function from ICU bed to bed.
*or woman.
😂helps build muscle
I would impose mandatory use of the subjunctive voice where appropriate.
Would that it were so simple.
*thumbs up emoji*
I can’t believe we’ve got this far without Midge.
Related to some of the posts above, I’d like to legislate that pint glasses are either straight or jug and without any writing on them.
I’m not that fussy. I find the beer’s already expensive enough without the added cost of prescription glasses..
Very remiss that this hasn’t appeared here until now.
Would never be allowed to happen if I was in charge.