I was first alerted to NFTs by an acquaintance who seems to believe the tech sector runs everything. He can’t shoot the breeze or chew the cud, he will always get the subject back to blockchain or something unfathomable to impress everyone.
He explained NFTs to me a few years ago – like a teenager in 1963 explaining The Beatles to her grandad. I kept responding along the lines of “it doesn’t make sense” and “why would anyone want that?”. He was amused at my naïveté and gave me the kind smile of a care worker, whose job it is to stop you getting on the bus in just your undies.
Anyway – I was right. It seems the whole thing has died
I’d like to know when YOU were right. You followed your instincts or just used basic intelligence – sometimes against the grain. Could be about anything.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/20/are-your-nfts-worthless-now-youre-not-alone/
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/20/are-your-nfts-worthless-now-youre-not-alone/
Thanks – not sure what happened.
NFTs are just nature’s latest way of taking money from those whose
obscene riches are vastly disproportionate to the intelligence, talent
expended in acquiring them.
Think of it as cocaine without the collapsed septum
Crypto currencies like BITCOIN are another industrial-sized
con
Still, the whole fiasco got people interested in the word “fungible”, so there’s that..
Worthy of a small token of appreciation at best
As an accountant well used to stocktakes, I was already quite familiar with the word “fungible”. Great word it is too.
Only the very wealthy benefit from get rich quick schemes. Only the very lucky ever make a living from the creative arts. NFTs always looked a gimmicky crock to me. I was gobsmacked when people were paying for an item for their computer game character. The people who make money are those selling the pointless gimmick to those with more money than sense. Which brings me to re-recorded albums and box sets on their umpteenth iteration, cough “who’s next/ Life house”, cough, etc.
I’m not so critical of people who pay for items in a video game etc. It’s not really for me, but it probably does add to their enjoyment of the game. To be honest, back in the day when I bought Pro Evolution and FIFA each year, if they’d have allowed me to pay money to download the squads from the 1978 and 1982 World Cups, I’d probably have been in there.
Any interest in my new line of “Trout Mask Replica” Trout Mask Replicas?
Generous discounts offered for family packs.
Like this?
paging @Steve_Walsh
Meanwhile, in other idiot news…
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/22/designer-baby-names-cost-thousands
I preferred it when babies were called things like Terry and June.
Not too sure about that, Mike. Terrys end up in suburbia as anxious middle-managers with a terrifying boss, living next door to people who exude effortless superiority over them. They get themselves in terrible scrapes e.g. pretending to be a Bridge player to impress aforementioned boss – only to have him arrive at their house that very evening wanting a game! Oh crikey! Junes are nice, though.
Oddly enough we have a 6-year-old June living next door. Her younger brother is called Abe – not sure how they arrive at that combo.
The traditional gift for Terrys who get married is a large wardrobe for the master bedroom of their and their wife’s new home
I thought it was a chocolate orange.
Junes, in my experience, are very nice.
Our neighbours have three kids, including a Stanley and Mabel. I hope noone at school knows the little ditty ‘Mabel, Mabel, does it on the table’.
I used to work with someone who was universally known as Mabel, though it wasn’t her name.
When I hear the name Mabel, I immediately think of this
Our neighbours’ dogs are called Stanley and Mabel!
The world of Terry sizzles with variety!
Pratchett, Hall, Thomas, Wogan, Allen, Gilliam..
And then there’s Terry Farrell who is a completely different kettle of fish!
Do Tel.
Oh my good gawd Terence!
I heard a young man on the wireless complain that he’d invested most of his hard-earned wages in Bitcoin and NFTs, as they’d been promoted by a Social Influencer, and they were now worthless.
At what point would you start taking financial advice from someone on TikTok?
In my day, we used to call them Pyramid Schemes.
If only he’d bought that bridge I was offering to sell him, he’d at least have something to show for his cluelessness
A fool and their money are easily parted. Nothing as true as that.
Can I interest anyone in investing in some tulip bulbs?
There was a very similar article in the Sunday Times a few weeks ago. It was quite amusing. The lists of items people were ‘investing’ in was packed chock full of alarm bells…. indeed I reckon if you took a picture of an alarm and offered it as a limited edition work of art using NFTs as the payment method a couple of years ago, you would have made some money.
I stood and watched during the .com boom of the late 90’s. I couldn’t understand then how these hollow companies could be worth as much as they were being traded for…. they weren’t!
A nother warning from history.
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/South-Sea-Bubble/
We studied this in history at school. Always stuck with me
The trouble with being right is that, if what you predicted would come to pass has come to pass, then there’s just your word for it. I was teaching business English to DHL and Deutsche Post staff in Bonn in the summer of 2008 – many of who were dealing with real estate, and I came across any number of articles in the Economist. FT, etc indicating that the housing market was overheating and that the smart money was getting out, but the giddy money was sticking with it because the profits kept rising. I had no skin in the game, but the sense of a bubble about to burst was very much in the air – although only those in the know knew how big it would burst.
The other problem is predicting something that hasn’t come to pass, or whose effects may still roll out in other ways. Who knows what will happen to NFTs once everyone bails? Maybe those who keep a few will be rewarded in decades to come? The attributed quote about the outcome from the French Revolution being too early to predict for a Chinese diplomat may be erroneous (he was talking about the 68 revolution, apparently), but there is a case for hedging your bets about being right.
it’s also good to avoid smugness and the risk of hubris. That’s definitely why AWers are holding their fire, keeping their powder dry and holding back on digging into the deep vaults of their anecdotage on this subject.
@salwarpe
Tomorrow oddly enough is the anniversary of Black Thursday – the mini panic that sparked the following week’s even bigger Wall Street Crash and ended up precipitating the Great Depression
While it’s probably apochryphal, there’s surely a kernel of truth in the famous story about Rockefeller* getting out of the market just before Wall Street tanked after being given stock tips by his shoeshine boy*
Similar thing happened in Hong Kong in October 89 when loads and loads of people I knew were making money hand over fist by buying up stocks.
Oddly, not one of them seemed to have lost any money after the Hang Sang went down the toilet when the buying frenzy turned into a selling stampede
* Also credited to JFK and sometimes involving an elevator operator rather than a shoeshine boy
Spelled out simply for simple people (like me), I guess the time to sell is when lay people (like me) start to read about it in the news – because that’s when prices start really rising due to demand, reaching towards market saturation, limit of credibility and unsustainability.
Just this morning I was listening to the most recent episode of the Crazy Town podcast that has recently dropped. In it the guys talk about the unsustainability of the US sun belt and Arizona in particular (the more and more extreme ways that the cities there attempt to keep hydrated). They say the main thing Michael Burry, the Big Short seller, now invests in is water. Watch this space, I guess.
A prediction I heard once was, “Wars of the past were fought over land, wars of the present are fought over oil, wars of the future will be fought over water.”
In my naivety I have no idea what an NFT is.
If it is something similar to Crypto then it is a crock of shit.
A work colleague of my wife received an inheritance of £ 20,000 when his nan died. He invested £15,000 in Crypto and persuaded his mum to do the same only she invested £35,000 such was the lure of the ‘profits’ they were going to make. Guess what they crashed. I told them at the time it was a risk and a waste of money but they wouldn’t listen.
*opens popcorn, waits for someone who made a few quid on Bitcoin at some point to come along and quote technobabble about which crypto variant we should buy today, were we to be actually clued-in on this esoteric stuff, whereupon I shall ignore everything they gabble and carry on munching my popcorn*
I had some spare cash lying around and invested $1000 in crypto currency a few years back. About a year later it was worth $300. But then 2 years after that it got back to $1000. I sold at that point. Think worth much less now. So I broke even
Obviously if I had bught at a certain time I would have done fine. But it’s completely random and very risky. Don’t invest what you can’t afford to lose
There’s a crypto currency called Dai. A stablecoin apparently. Tethered to the value of Rolling Stones box sets. Possibly.
Every time I read “NFT”, I think “Great – the National Film Theatre”!
You’re probably remembering when I made a joke about that last time we discussed NFTs. I imagine most AWers copied it down somewhere and since then have never really stopped laughing about it.
I’d post here more regularly if I didn’t spend most of my time holding my sides recalling that joke, Gary..
I got one email from an AWer who was considering taking it to the Edinburgh Fringe.
Though I might have dreamt that.
I was right all along about prosecco. In the 80s I always used to bring a few bottles back with me on UK visits, describing it as like champagne only nicer and cheaper. None of my family were interested. “S’alright, I suppose”, they sniffed haughtily. Fast forward however many years and it’s the most popular drink in the UK among ladies who like prosecco. Including my haughtily sniffing cousins.
I was also right all along about Goodfellas. Empire gave it four stars. I knew immediately it was a five star classic.
Those of us who are knowledgeable about wine (snobs) have decreed that prosecco is not great. It’s rather plain and sweet. Cava is better being made using the champagne method but that can have too much of a mineral taste. Of non-champagne sparkling wine I would favour a cremant. More complex and sophisticated as am I.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think men are allowed to drink it anyway.
That’s the definition of bad wine I believe.
An old friend of mine insists that the reason that white wines are served chilled is because they are all disgusting unless you chill them to disguise their rankness.
My father had a similar view about lager
I wouldn’t interested in knowing any white wine that you have drunk at room temperature that was acceptable.
I highly recommend an excellent BBC podcast about the cryptocurrency scam OneCoin.
From my limited understanding of cryptocurrencies, if you don’t have a blockchain, you are left with a scam/massive Ponzi scheme. OneCoin conned people out of more than £4 billion, and its founder, Ruja Ignatova, is missing. People were receiving emails telling them how much their ‘investment’ was worth; in reality, it was totally worthless.
I have no idea what a blockchain is.
Some rappers wear them, apparently. They are made of pure 6 carrot gold.
I’ve been struggling to think of a comment to add here. I’m starting to realise I don’t think I’ve been right about anything in my life. Sigh. It’s lucky I’m not a gambler.
No, no, no, I won’t have that! Why, I remember that time a few years ago, 2018 I think it was, when you said… oh, hang on, no, perhaps it wasn’t you, now I come to think of it.
But still, “I don’t think I’ve been right about anything in my life” – you might be right about that, so that’s something.
Winner!
I was right about Television’s sophomore LP.
Another winner!
NFTs and crypto are very different things. NFTs took off at a time when returns on traditional forms of investment were pretty dismal, and there always have been / always will be people looking for high returns, some of whom understand the risks, and plenty that don’t. I worked with a guy that spent around £10k a year buying up art from unknown UK artists at £50 to £100 a go, in the expectation that he’d hit it big with one, eventually. Last I heard he’s out of storage space and still waiting. I’d expect a tiny % of the NFTs issued to date to become highly valuable at some point in the next 50 years. The difficult part is figuring out which ones.
Crypto is something different and is neither a “con” nor a “crock of shit”. They are just decentralised currencies that aren’t tied to a particular country. For some people this is a critical consideration as it puts crypto funds out of the reach of government restrictions and revaluations. Plenty of people don’t trust that the blockchain provides a more reliable record of who holds what crypto, but then there were plenty of people that refused to use cash machines because a man didn’t stamp their passbook.
Bitcoin first traded at around $0.30 in 2011. It’s trading today at $30,652. So if you were on board early, the returns may have been spectacular, but so could the losses if you bought in around 2021 just as prices peaked at $64k. If you bought in a year ago you’ll have seen a return over 12 months of around 55%. In fact the return over the last 2 weeks is higher than any high street savings account. Crypto has had a boom n bust cycle pretty much every 2 to 3 years since around 2011.
So how much have I made? Nothing. I’ve been tempted to invest a few times, but I’ve always thought it’s too volatile. If you like a spread bet, or a different kind of punt, it’s worth a look, but only on the basis that you can afford not to see any of it again. You need absolute clarity about when and how much to invest and when to get out and I don’t have the time or the knowledge to feel I’d have either.
There are plenty of naysayers but aside from those that simply don’t understand what it is, many of the very same group that condemn crypto at every opportunity were happily endorsing Neil Woodford’s investment funds [The Sunday Times and The Mail in particular] up to the day he shit the bed with £3.7bn of 300k+ other peoples money, all of whom are still to see a penny in compensation, despite all the regulation and oversight that was supposed to protect them. Me included.
Sorry to hear that. I don’t know who he is, but unfortunately there are figures like him everywhere.
Great post.
I saw a better return from crypto than any investment I’ve ever made, bar maybe property. Caught it at the right moment (Ethereum), got my original stake back out as quick as possible and then made a tidy sum on top. It’s insanely volatile, as you say, but there was a lot of cheap money floating around during the pandemic with nowhere to go, so I figured I could ride that wave. I certainly wouldn’t recommend anyone investing money they can’t afford to lose in the sector.
I have a few friends forging careers with Blockchain businesses, largely DeFi, Collectibles and Games. Anywhere there’s an intermediary it has the potential to create efficiencies, so I’ll be interested to see what blooms from those industries in years to come.
As far as further investment and NFTs go, I think it’s important to bear in mind that these are unregulated spaces that have already seen a lot of pump and dump. NFTs always looked high risk, although once their volatility settles down I have no problem getting on board with the concept that people might eventually covet unique digital assets in the same way they do physical assets. The fine art business probably looked ridiculous when it first started, but it does pretty well for itself.
Very sorry to hear about your investment experience. It’s a reminder that there are very few truly safe bets out there, no matter how careful you are. Hopefully the ongoing litigation will see some sort of positive outcome.
Excellent explanation of a topic of which I know nothing. @fortuneight. Thanks!
But I was sorry to read the “punchline”. Very sorry to hear that you got burnt.
I’m wrong about everything – start at the bottom and it can get no worse
I think a valid point is made above – that periods of very low interest on cash investments propel investors into more risky territory. I worked in the investments arena for about 25 years (Long-established company pension schemes and a Govt-backed retail saving programme). These were always good, solid, safe, low-fee vehicles for long term investment – particularly as the employer and/or Government chipped in too. For most people these schemes “sold” themselves.
I would say about 97% “got” this and all was well. But it was the 3% that caused grief. As far as I was concerned, you can join the thing I am talking about – or you can decide not to. And yet a small but significant number of people would indulge in trash talk and “throw shade” on who I worked for, the employer or the Government of the day. I am happy to defend the investments I promoted long into the night (still am) but the penny dropped eventually that it didn’t matter what I said.
The 3% (absolutely all of them were male) have educated me at length about crypto, property investment schemes, timeshares, finance company bonds, CDOs and many many other things that delivered far bigger returns than the stuff I was talking about. They made me feel like a naive dumbass for wasting my time and money on these more traditional investments. But you only hear about the successes. As some of those vehicles careered off the cliff and smashed to the ground, the correspondence ends.
The characters that promoted the shonky stuff reappear time and time again, totally unfazed. This is why Boris Johnson is not a new phenomenon to me. There are people like him everywhere.
It is all about risk tolerance isn’t it BC? Some crypto traders make absolute fortunes and very quickly by being nimble. It was never something to buy and hold. Sure it is like gambling so use a gamber’s strategy. Know when to hold them , know when to fold them….. Thanks Kenny.
Similarly other strategies- gearing for instance. I made money on margin loan investing and writing options over your shares is a pretty safe way of boosting returns- but as soon as someone says the word derivatives it is immediately equated with high risk.
Yes Junes I think you’re right there. Although I must say I do equate complexity with risk, so I am probably one of those people too.
As the old saying goes:
If it sounds too good to be true…
And as someone else up the page wisely says:
Never invest more than you can afford to lose
If you’re reading about it in a tabloid, you’ve already missed the boat.
Especially if the hot stock tips you’re reading about have been supplied by Piers Morgan
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/nov/23/business.pressandpublishing#:~:text=Piers%20Morgan%2C%20former%20Daily%20Mirror,a%20court%20was%20told%20yesterday.
*crunch, crunch*
Sigh.
All this made up shit. Of course it’s a con and a crock.
Stay safe everyone, put it under your mattress.
Anyone brave enough to admit to a belief they hold now, against the cultural consensus, that they’re convinced they will be proved right on in a few years?
For me it’s two things, both kind of related: current taste in food/drink and in home decor. It seems there is a real glut of (for example) magazines and social media people all trying to convince us of the latest restaurant/eating/drinking fad or home styling fad. I think it’s an unnatural bubble and once it bursts in a few years we will all be baffled about how we once were happy to spend over a fiver on an artisan coffee or £29.99 for a cheeseboard where the waiter tells you the origin of each cheese in front of you, or £80 a roll for William Morris wallpaper.
I for one can’t wait to get to a more sensible, frugal time. And if we never get there I’m happy to add this entry to my ‘Turns Out I Was Wrong’ thread.
(What’s that? You thought I was going to say Taylor Swift? I would nt dare!)
Electric cars are only a stopgap until hydrogen distribution is viable.
I like it! Calendar reminder duly set to check back on this thread in a few years time.
Petrol and Diesel are obviously headed for history’s cesspit, along with coal and natural gas, but Electric Vehicles are too. Can you imagine the amount of electricity they’ll need to generate if every petrol or diesel vehicle currently in use is replaced with an electric equivalent? Ain’t going to happen.
Actually, it’s my belief that the personal road vehicle, let alone one controlled by a human driver, is something that just cannot be sustained for much longer.
Electric buses are the future as we all work from home and only physically meet remote workmates at the annual Xmas do held in Birmingham thanks to the HS2 completion.
Not going to be many remote plumbers, bricklayers or electricians in your future, Unk.
Not many remote middle managers either. They’ll be one of the first “trades” to be replaced by AI.
Yes I agree with this. I think many of us were brought up by parents who went through wartime austerity and rationing. The notions of finishing what’s on your plate and not wasting food are still with me. The Guinness Book of Records didn’t used to have eating records, for example.
We even have a posho steak place out here in suburban Auckland which does the Salt Bae-type thing with a steak. Just the $250 for one steak dish – a snip!
I think in a couple of decades, we will be living together in large families again because this is what happens when the cost of living far exceeds affordability and more and more healthcare that we now consider basic becomes available only to the rich and the well-insured. Families and friends will pool resources more and those currently falling on hard times will be fed and looked after within this unit.
It’s not necessarily a bleak outlook. Young parents can have on-call support and grandparents see their grandchildren all the time. It’s a model adopted for centuries all over the world. Those that pull away can do and will do so – but I like the safety net aspect of a group of friends and family living together.
That’s still the case here. Family is massively important and three generations in the same house is common (although gradually becoming less so as young people increasingly leave in search of work). I don’t know to what extent it’s as a result of this that those without a family support system seem to get very little help from the state in comparison with the less family-centred UK.
If I had to share a house with my 80 year old parents I would go stir crazy after a couple of days. If we have a separate space and not a shared one I can see that would work.
Stick ’em out in the shed.
I should also add that I know so many families here where the people living together refuse to speak to each other!