So, there was animated discussion on here when the Doctor returned to our screens last year and I’m surprised there hasn’t been more since the latest season finished.
A quick recap about my stance from the last thread: my son is a big fan, I thought recent stories and acting were terrible, I thought the diversity/inclusivity content was ham-fisted to the point of being comical. No, I’m not racist, homophobic, transphobic etc.
So I’ve watched most of the episodes this season, and with a couple of exceptions things panned out exactly as I thought they would. Writing continues to be bad (mostly – some exceptions below) with most stories too bombastic and needing ‘The Big Insight’ from the Doctor to resolve. Ruby is a plucky cookie-cutter stage-school poppet indistinguishable from Clara, Rose, Amy etc. Ncuti Gatwa is never believable as the Doctor (and I’ve decided he’s simply not a very good actor) and, yes, diversity is the theme of the season, in case you couldn’t tell (There may have been yells of “Kill the dwarf!” coming from my end of the sofa during more animated parts of the finale).
Some thoughts on episodes:
73 Yards: The best epidote of the season, where Ruby is haunted by a future ghost of herself. It’s also the episode that barely features The Doctor, which may be why I like it. Consider it this season’s Blink. Like Blink, it also collapses you think about it too much, but that’s OK because it’s fun to watch.
Dot and Bubble: My son’s favourite episode but one I thought was dreadful. A hollow social commentary on the vacuousness of social media, where the Doctor wastes his time trying to save a bunch of completely unlikable characters (and letting the only likeable ones die). They then reject his help at the end because…he’s black. You almost expect the Different Strokes theme to start up. The actress playing the lead was obviously much older than the character was meant to be, to the point where I thought it would be a plot reveal of some sort.
Rogue: The one where the Doctor cops it off with a home-brand Captain Jack. Twee and nonsensical, but harmless.
The finale: These two episodes are amongst the worst I have ever seen on Doctor Who, to the point where I even thought there hd been an editing error of some sort. Nothing made sense. The Doctor has to save the universe. Again (my son informed me that he/she spent the whole previous season doing the same). This time from a bad CGI Egyptian dog god who has apparently been living in the Tardis since The Doctor had a long scarf. There is a cascading sequence of endings, each more pointless than the last. I repeat, it made no sense.
The ratings are dire. Coupled with the mauling that Disney’s Star Wars: The Acolyte is receiving, this is playing into alt-right YouTube bro-fessors’ conspiracies about lesbian commies running Disney (citation needed). It would be nice if there was some decent content worth defending.
I personally give zero shits about the legacy of either franchise (Dr Who finished for me when Peter Davidson took over and Star Wars once the Muppets appeared) but it has been really sad watching my son try to remain enthusiastic and be so let down. To soften the blow, we have been watching some of his favourite older episodes together. I don’t think I saw any Peter Capaldi ones at the time, but the few he showed me were very good. It’s a pity they couldn’t keep that going.
https://www.google.com/imgres?q=doctor%20who&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fm.media-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BZjVlNTkyZWItZjE0My00OGExLTkzYzAtMDg1NDAzY2UwMGUxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODk4OTc3MTY%40._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Ftitle%2Ftt31433814%2F&docid=iJIYbn97cFKe1M&tbnid=UT_irHT3n2RZAM&vet=12ahUKEwjpwIKapoWHAxWvsVYBHaZRCIEQM3oECBYQAA..i&w=1000&h=1481&hcb=2&itg=1&ved=2ahUKEwjpwIKapoWHAxWvsVYBHaZRCIEQM3oECBYQAA
The standards of the episodes varied wildly, and while I enjoyed the finale they made the curious decision to start with the worst (memo to writers and producers: talking babies are never, ever cute). We’ll have to disagree about Ncuti Gatwa whose energy and charisma gave the whole enterprise a momentum and flair it hasn’t had since the Tennant/Smith years, and who looks fabulous whatever he is dressed in. I’ll watch any new Doctor Who out of long-standing habit but for the first time in years it was something I would look forward to rather than a duty, or even a chore.
Did they do the ‘boy/girl’s love for mother/father is stronger than all the evil in the Universe’ trope again?
Quite a few years ago, I think post-Russell, when they did the storyline where one of the companions has a baby without remembering anything, that’s when they lost me. There was literally nothing I could believe about the emotional reaction to that from the characters. I could believe in all the Sci-Fi stuff but the human side was really messed up. It upset me, honestly.
While not a huge Whovian, I generally give new doctors a go.
Ended up loving DT, MS and PC, but barely watched any of the JW series.
While being inclusive is laudable, making sure every character represents some kind of trope is just laughable.
Was going to give up after one ep of the new incarnation (Awwwww, the cute babies – Not!), but stuck around for the Beatles one (sorry I did). Went back for the last two which seemed to be a distinct improvement.
Big question is will the Doctor’s new Masters (SWIDT) at the House of Mouse be sufficiently pleased with the viewing figures to keep bankrolling further series after their current (two seasons?) support runs out . I’m not sure they will
It’s tricky to talk about this without coming across as a big old Phobe, but… the best episodes of this series were the um, straighter ones. Boom and 73 Yards, cracking stories. Great performances from both the leads, especially Millie Gibson, who is pretty extraordinary for a 19 year old.
The rest – this is a safe space, right, I won’t get cancelled for implying dissent? – load of smug, performative cack.
Boom was alright, although there was no tension whatsoever with the Doctor standing on the mine. It should have been a supporting character (like the little girl, who stood around for the episode doing literally nothing).
I think that’s all the ones I watched. Didn’t watch the baby one or the Beatle one, or the Christmas special, for that matter.
The Doctor was stood on the mine because Ncuty Gatwa had filming commitments elsewhere and it required less time for him as the Doctor.
Other episodes of this series were similarly constrained.
Not having the ‘stage school poppet’ line. Not only is it condescending to the max, it’s also complete bollocks. Jenna Coleman and Billie Piper in particular are fantastic actors.
They are, but it seems the characters they play are expected to be role models first, believable people second. I wonder how many youngsters hide behind the sofa these days – no-one onscreen seems afraid of any foe, why should the viewers?
While I’m at it, UNIT used to be the Brig, a dozen uniforms with machine guns, and a couple of Land Rovers – now it’s a multibillion dollar job centre for former Doctor companions…I expect we’ll see both Ruby’s mothers sitting behind a computer console next season (and don’t get me started on the trope of child geniuses).
As for the Doctor, he’s got a screwdriver that does anything and everything, and now “intelligent rope” and an “intelligent glove”…how about an intelligent script? And if you made a drinking game about every time the Doctor says “I’m sorry”…well, I’d be falling off the couch every week.
Ultimately it’s all fluffadoodle, and there are more pressing matters in the world to worry about, but still…
Re UNIT, perhaps the doctor went back to just after the election in 2019 and bet large on a Labour win in 2024. Quids in for UNIT.
I thought it was mixed. Talking babies and the series closer were both weak, but thought Dot and Bubble, the gay Bridgerton nonsense and the one with the landmine were very good. And it was all a vast improvement on the Chris Chibnall years. The Mrs and I gave up on those after about four episodes but were happy to stick with this series.
I think Ncuti Gatwa is OK as the doctor without, so far, matching Tenant or Smith. Maybe he will grow into the role further over the next series.
Dot & Bubble was an interesting idea that almost worked.
73 Yards was great.
The rest ranged from Dire (Space Babies, The Devil’s Chord) to merely OK.
Could (and must) do better.
I thought The Devil’s Chord one was there just so that Russel Davies could write a big dance number,
73 Yards was excellent. Dot and Bubble was basically Black Mirror. The Devil’s Chord was a good story but the baddie was basically a pantomime dame. Bring back Missy, I say.
I haven’t really watched Doctor Who properly since 1979, so this probably isn’t the thread for me. I caught snatches of Eccleston, Tennant and Smith, and liked Tennant in the role, but the key to success with most formula telly is don’t mess with the formula. Doctor Who seems to be no longer a sci-fi drama aimed at kids, but a series of lessons about diversity in which every character represents a statement about something. I don’t like the term ‘woke’, but if ever a programme has been hijacked then this is it. As @jaygee says above, that just makes it laughable. Frankly I turn the telly on to be entertained, not lectured.
That’s exactly how I feel about it. Dr Who was once regular viewing for me (the Tom Baker years were the best), and now I watch an episode or two of each new incarnation just in case that old magic has returned.
Sadly, the show has left me behind. What was a fun romp with some drama and the occasional weirdness or monster has turned into a lecture from the latest showrunner. As others have said, too many characters are just tropes or there to make a point, rather than believable people (yes, I know is/was a kids’ show and not Chekov, but at least try and make their emotions/reactions seem real).
@Captain-Darling
Anyone ever notice how when budget limitations mean shows like DW need to include more minorities than they have cast members, it’s almost always the black or Asian characters who end up having to double-up
Casting agents don’t have enough black or asian actors on their lists?
I have it heard it said that there is a paucity of Asian actors. At least this is one reason given for the preponderance of black actors in roles ( including adverts).
Is there a shortage, or are the agents just not signing them up?
Either scenario (or a combination) would give the same result.
Somewhat different for me – I didn’t watch it when I was young but picked up on it with the CE reboot when I had children of my own. Tennant’s tenure was appointment viewing for us as was Smith (my favourite) But as the kids got older and cooler than their dad, I found myself watching Capaldi on my own more often than not and eventually drifted away. Not deliberately as such but more that it never occurred to me that it was Saturday evening and Doctor Who was on. I like JW but from the little I saw of her tenure, it was overpopulated with companions and the one or two episodes of the new series that I saw left me cold. I wish it well, though. It has a formidable legacy.
The two best episodes for me were, 73 yards & Dot & Bubble – neither of which featured the Doctor that much. I think that Millie Gibson is very good, but I’m not that convinced about Ncuti Gatwa.
Of the other episodes, I think the BBC made a mistake by doing a double bill of the first 2 episodes, where a weak “talking babies” was immediately followed by a frenetic “too much orange squash” musical show, that had no time to breathe.
The landline one was dull (just use your sonic screwdriver) and the finale had some nice touches & then just petered out.
Maybe the “non Doctory” ones were for RTD to show what he can do if the franchise doesn’t continue.
Groan. I was waiting for that word in inverted commas.
My biggest objection to the current series is that the two main characters are too good looking. When they change clothes they remind me of models. Christopher Eccleston is by no means an ugly man, but I miss his big ears and goofy grin.
Otherwise…
Regular NuWho watchers are used to dismal series finales, usually caused by poorly thought through convoluted mysteries or preposterously huge universe-endangering stakes which, in a continuing show, will have to be somehow waved away or DEM’d. We’re over that. We also accept that it’s in the nature of the show to be daft and within-the-same-series wildly inconsistent (kudos to Jaygee – if you tried deliberately to avoid the good episodes you couldn’t have done a better job). Personally, I don’t like how sentimental and fanservicey it’s become, but then you see the not fondly remembered Bonnie Langford dropped back in and actually being pretty good.
With regard to the “W” word, I think the real problem is execution. Some of the attempts at incorporating issues into stories (which pretty much all sci fi does) have been clumsy or simplistic. That’s just a matter of a “can do better” note for the writer. Most of the other times people complain about the show being woke (and I’m not assuming this of you Boneshaker), it’s why all the women, disabled actors, visible representation of non-nuclear family types? When the answer to this is how genuinely strange it would be to filter them out.
I agree Ncuti Gatwa has not shone thus far, but I think he hasn’t been given many scenes in which to do so (although his energy and that of the show in general is a huge improvement on the even more poorly served Jodie and the whole Chibnall period).
Millie Gibson has been terrific despite all the limitations (yet another companion is a contemporary young British female with a collection of mini skirts).
Lots of people either criticise or defend DW with just two words “kids’ show”, but I do think if you’re going to enjoy it you have to actually embrace and even love the daftness. Just tighten up the writing (get other writers in mister six-episodes-out-of-eight) and realise so many of the best episodes are small scale (you know the ones) not grand “here I go, rebooting the universe again” fare..
There are several problems in my eyes…
1. It was originally a show for kids, but they now want to cater for those who grew up with it as well as encourage a new young audience. That’s a hard balancing act.
2. The writing – I have no idea why Russell T. Davies is considered to be some sort of genius. Clunky dialogue, nonsensical plots and, I hate to say it, persistent pursuit of an agenda.
3. The original Doctor Who stories were half an hour long and told a story over several weeks. This allowed for weekly cliffhangers and decent story development.
4. The budget. Sometimes less is more, and original Who had to depend on stories rather than special effects. The power of imagination has given way to a lot of second rate CGI.
5. Casting. Jodie Whittaker just wasn’t right, and the jury is still out over the character Ncuti Gatwa is playing. Gender and ethnicity and so on isn’t the problem for me – I just don’t think the Doctor is right as a younger person.
I thought Jodie W was fine, and quite liked the group of companions. But the writing wasn’t good enough during her time.
The actor playing the Doctor needs to have an otherworldly quality. Matt Smith had a bit of it, Troughton and C.Baker too, but of course the prize winner of weird is Tom Baker. Running down a corridor, stopping, and gawping isn’t enough. Nor is alternating between ‘awestruck’ and ‘angry’.
I harumph over my paper while the GLW watches these days, and thought the first two of the new series were shit-awful even for a kids show. Musical numbers! Talking babies! And, of course for an Afterworder, the most inaccurate will-this-do version of the Beatles in fiction. Then the 73 Yards show blew me away, best thing since Blink.
It’s been bobbins since Matt Smith departed.
Someone above was excusing it on the basis that “it’s just for kids, doesn’t have to be Chekov” . This is how we end up with David Walliams, author, and the appalling Harry Potter nonsense.
E B White, Roald Dahl, Lewis Carroll and many others managed classic novels about children but weren’t aimed “down” to children. Doctor Who has never been in that league but has suffered from being “issue drama” since the reboot, and that’s a shame for today’s kids.
Not entirely sure giving Disney a stake in it was a good idea.
Perhaps they should retire the doctor for a few years and then reboot it afresh, as they previously did. Would that work a second time?
Perhaps they should turn the whole thing over to Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty for a season or two and see what they can make of it.
The positives:
Ncuti brings charisma by the bucketload. Millie Gibson seems like loads of untapped potential.
And that’s about it.
Two things irk me enormously. Well, more than two.
1. RTD has descended into “tell” not “show”. Contrast the Pond/Doctor relation ship to the Ruby/Doctor one. The former was built over time; we could see the relationship building. With Ruby, we are told that she is the Doctor’s best friend, but there are no foundations upon which we can ground our belief in that. The messages that RTD wants to deliver are sent via sledgehammer rather than demonstration and then letting us develop our own thoughts about it.
2. He’s misled the audience. Sleight of hand from a writer is good, but outright deception isn’t, and I feel that’s where he went with Ruby and her mother. Throw in his use of “real Mum” to describe bio-mum as opposed to the woman who actually raised Ruby, and that storyline just annoyed me.
RTD strikes me as being a 2004 writer still desperately trying to show how clever he is in 2024, when the world of television has moved on and moved past him. I’m also convinced he has a nasty streak in him following how he handled the Ecclestone departure and “don’t you think she looks tired”.
I try to stay onboard with Who, but they’re making it harder and harder.
I think Russellty is a once-good writer now trading entirely off past glories, and if everything he’s done since, say, “Turn Left” is any guide, most of his inspiration arrives up a rolled-up £20. I watched the intro episodes and the bloody awful Margolyles-voicing-a-Furby one, and concluded… nah. The show hasn’t been anything I’ve been interested in watching since Capaldi, dark glasses and Stratocaster (at which I cringed so hard my teeth nipped my spleen)
Very minor thing but as an adopted person I also found the “real mum” thing annoying.
Recently decided to catch up on the Doc via iPlayer, to see if it had finally ceased to be a weekly virtue-signalling, cultural war issue box-ticking exercise. Figured I’d start with the first one – Space Babies – and then felt puzzled, as I seemed to have stumbled into an over-expository episode possibly churned out for something like Comic Relief. Noticed – sigh – that Russell T was back in charge. Scratched the rest of the season from my mental watch list, went back to ignoring the thing.
You threw the baby out with the bath water.
Yes. I know.
The exposition may have had more to do with introducing it to the Disney audience. Overall story-arc was a callback to the Baker era The Pyramids of Mars, to keep the nerds at least partially on side.
I agree with all of the comments above. Dr Who has become the equivalent of the band who you hope will make another great single, but who keep putting out “All the Way to Reno”. At the ‘climax’ of the last episode even my fourteen year-old went “Oh, come on Russell – *really*..?”
On the other hand, he’s a completist, so we had to watch Pyramids of Mars to catch up on who the weird space dog was in the first place. Marvellous Tom Baker eye-rolling and Elizabeth Sladen in a vintage frock firing a rifle.
[points at screen] “He was in Grange Hill, you know!.”
“What’s that?”
I’m nearly sixty one, you know.