…how come, when they cover the huge public turnout for Shane McGowan’s funeral procession through the streets of Dublin, they focus on a bunch of street musicians playing a song about Salford written by a Scot – Ewan MacColl – and not a Shane original?
Have they no soul? Are they that slack at their reporting that they didn’t know who the song they featured had been written by? Couldn’t they be bothered to find some guys playing one of his own, rather than a song the Pogues could only be said to have perhaps latterly made their own for casual listeners? Where’s the Reithian rigour when you need it? Sloppy sods.
Harrumph
I got into an online ‘discussion’ a few years ago when a Pogues fan argued that Dirty Old Town was an Irish song. I have no doubt the BBC intern tasked with selecting which shots to use also didn’t know the song’s origins.
I think it was in a Grauniad tribute that it was pointed out (not in snide way, but to give a clear sense of identity) that none of The Pogues were born in Ireland & it was far more accurate to think of them as a ‘London’ band rather than an Irish one.
I think actually this was a valid observation, even though their appeal did spread across the global diaspora & notably in the US.
There are numerous US ‘fans’ who genuinely think ‘Rainy Night In Soho’ is about NYC, however daft that might seem to anybody familiar with the West End.
RTE news report this morning had a lady in a short vox pop and, yes, Dirty Old Town was her favourite song by Shane McGowan because it was sung all over the world to give Irish people a sense of home. Truly annoying.
Trouble is, the vast majority of people wouldn’t know any other Doctor Feelgood songs. To the point that it wouldn’t be worth playing any of them. Come to think of it, the majority of people probably wouldn’t know any other Pogues/ McGowan song save for FTONY. Seems to be part of the modern world, where many entertainers musicians are far more famous than most, if not all, of their work. Lou Reed, Lemmy and Jeff Beck are other examples that spring to mind.
Don’t think Dirty Old Town was ever played by Dr Feelgood…I could be wrong, of course.
My post was intended to appear below the one later in thread mentioning Feelgood.
Of course! Apologies.
Wait till you hear somebody sing ‘… Waltzing Matilda’ 😉
or The Irish Rover
(still, a welcome change to multiple mentions of Fairytale Of New York)
Or ….And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda, written by a Scot who emigrated to Australia
Ahem.
On, was that what you meant? Oops….
To be fair to the Beeb, I’ve just watched their fine live stream of Shane’s send-off from St. Mary’s in Tipperary, and they stuck with it well.
The Fairytale performance was a bit special. Something in my eye…
https://rte.ie/b/1420857
Absolutely. The eulogies were wonderful too.
Everyone’s Irish when it suits them. It’s the Neurodiversity of cultural identities.
So it is.
Begorrah and bejabers. Mind me harp.
It’ll be over there behind the large green felt comedy hat.
I am insult. I am 1/8 Irish.
I am a Catholic born and bred in the North West of England. Of course I’m Irish. 😉
I regularly drink Guinness.
Where’s me Shillelagh?
Just don’t be Irish in the wrong place and at the wrong time.
Like the British Isles any time before 1998….?
(I’m not…)
Hi, could somebody, maybe @ ColinH , tell me who was in the backing band for Fairytale. I got Lisa O’Neil and Glen Hansard singing, Spider on whistle, I think Terry Woods was there but interesting for confirmation of the troupe.
And I thought Nick Cave’s version of Rainy Night was the absolute business. His Candle In The Wind moment, release it as a single now!
Oh please don’t. Just let it be a moment.
Looked like the Pogues themselves to me. Jem Finer and James Fearnley both there as well.
@Guiri Thank you
To be fair, when is all is said and done, there really weren’t that many Shane originals.
I don’t mean to be rude but some of the posts above are being a bit cheeky about the second generation Irish identity that was real for Shane McGowan, not an affectation. He spent a lot of time in Ireland as a child, grew up immersed in Irish culture and it was where he felt comfortable and found himself. No doubt he was never made to feel fully English and was probably mocked for his Irishness. I didn’t fully accept or understand the Irish diaspora or the second generation Irish thing until I lived in London for 12 years mostly in the 90s. It’s real and it’s at the core of people’s identity in a more real way than some of the footballers who have turned out for the Republic. It’s telling that Shane lived out his later years in Ireland living a low profile life where he felt comfortable. To their credit Ireland’s main TV show the Late Late Show did a tribute to him while he lived. He embodied irish musical tradition irrespective of where he was born and was accepted by Ireland for it, because he was authentic. Had he, or the Pogues not been, they’d have been rejected. As Morrissey put it Irish Blood, English Heart. Shane had an Irish heart to go with his Irish Blood and we embraced him I’m quite indifferent to the Pogues largely because he was a rotten singer and appalling live from early in their career but I value him as one of the best Irish songwriters of my lifetime. I’m glad he got a good send off.
@Bamber
As the UK-born child of Irish immigrants who chose to make his home in Ireland myself, I think B’s insights into the Irish diaspora are bang on the money.
I always think of the Pogues as London Irish, not exactly Irish and not exactly British, but something else.
Also worth noting that the Irish musical establishment hated the Pogues.
Isn’t that just generational snobbery, like the Nashville/C & W indifference to The Byrds/Parsons/Burritos/Submarine band etc?
Establishment types always fear and hate the generation who will
take their place
Really? The Chieftains who were Irish music royalty always seemed well disposed to them as were the Dubliners and Christy Moore. I saw Shane McGowan on stage with the Chieftains in London and they treated him like royalty. They were hugely popular in Ireland from their first releases.
Who are this Irish musical establishment of whom you speak?
@Bamber
My comment was referencing kid Dynamite’s use of establishment in his post above.
FWIW, my mental Image of an establishment type would be a fairly well known and widely respected person whose profile significantly exceeded his talent.
Oy! That’s no way to talk about Clodagh.
Don’t think they made any headroads into Irish critical approval until IISFFGWG. There’s a famous clip of Gay Byrne giving them a tough time on the Late Late Show around the time of Red Roses, and they were so pissed off with Planxty’s slagging of them that they wrote a tune about it on the Poguetry In Motion EP
there was a press conference at RTE between the Pogues and some of the “establishment” in 1985, on BP Fallon´s radio show.
more detail here:
https://fanningsessions.wordpress.com/tag/pogues/
Jaysus that was a painful listen. Noel Hill was a right arsehole there criticising anything but pure Irish trad and dismissing the likes of the Dubliners as much as the Pogues. Sam Smith was always a contrarian journalist looking for an angle. I don’t think music was his area. I loved the comeback about Seamus Ennis being drunk on TV. Ironically the Seamus Ennis Centre a great little music venue doesn’t have a bar and you have to go to the pub across the road for a drink. BP Fallon was no great host either. I don’t know know what to make of the “debate”, except the perception that it was constructed to generate reactions and controversy but the temperature never really heated up much.
This is not a mystery. They focussed on that song because the presenter shut his damn mouth for a second when it was on. He fucking didn’t during Fairytale Of New York, fucking yapped right through that.
This is on iplayer for a short while
Crock of Gold: A Few Rounds with Shane MacGowan: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000t84r via @bbciplayer
Well worth a watch.
Watched this the other day and laughed when Shane referred to Bob Geldof as an “arsehole”. Geldof was at Shane’s funeral yesterday. I wonder if he’s seen Crock of Gold?
A lof of people in Ireland view Geldof as being an arsehole. I somehow doubt that his low standing causes him to lose much sleep
Doesn’t Geldof regard himself as an arsehole?
https://x.com/DanielMays9/status/1733227133630063072?s=20
I totally get Shane’s embracing his genes. I was born in Hove, have lived no further north than Lichfield, but identify 100% as a Hebridean Celt. Frankly, who would want to be an English.
Michael Marra loves you!
The flipside of this would be assertions that someone could never be English if they had Asian or African genes.
There is adoptive home and ancestral home: all options catered for. Plus, genetically, I think we all come from six people somewhere in central Africa, the generations then extending out all over. You takes yer choice.
Presumably this doesn’t necessarily extend to the people I have seen described elsewhere ( including on this site) as ‘plastic paddies’ Is there a Scottish equivalent? I guess so, since the King periodically gets it in the neck when kilted up, despite having a Scottish grandmother.
Scottish equivalent – Mock Jock?
Senegalese equivalent – Semi-Galese?
Not at all sure I’ve got the hang of this.
Hebridean, eh? I’ll be checking to ensure that you’re not posting on the Sabbath.
Wee free zone here, but it can still be serious there. I remember the “rules” during long Summer holidays on Lewis. No washing to be hung out (as evidence of doing it) , no car journeys, no fun. All the shops closed and all the bars and restaurants closed, except for one bar, in Stornoway, for those good people who had unfortunately to travel on the Lord’s day. Needless to say, that bar was rammed with folk who had to make an inescapable journey; to there! It was an Indian restaurant that first bucked the trend of Sunday opening otherwise, and subject to a lot of unGodlike abuse too.
Once and only once I recall being taken to the Kirk. A long walk over the hill to a barren corrugated iron roofed shack, fun of elderly wifies and their spouses, dressed in their Sunday best. Uncomfortable seats and an interminable service of hell and brimstone, interspersed with unaccompanied choral singing of some beauty, organs and pianos being the devil’s playthings.
Michael Marra again. ‘Chain Up The Swings’.
“Wee free zone” – I’m guessing that your zone is, in fact, free from the Wee Free influence, ie, a “Wee Free”-free zone…
I’ve heard some of the unaccompanied singing and it can be very fine indeed. They have someone leading the singing (can’t remember the name of this functionary – something like preceptor)?
You could always listen to this instead.
Colin Blakey who played with them joined the Waterboys,
It’s a good job he didn’t join Suede
There wiil be no shitting paracetamol on the escalator on god’s holy sabbath, ya wee jobbie-bottoms
The Beeb do seem to occasionally suffer from unchecked Intern Researchers, who do no more than a quick scan of a Wikipedia landing page.
During 40th anniversary celebrations for No Parlez, Paul Young was on the Breakfast sofa. They played a brief extract of the video for “Every Time You Go Away” (a song which wasn’t on No Parlez) and asked him whether he minded people covering his songs (he didn’t write it). He had the good grace to change the subject.
Must … restrain… Boooodowwwwing… reflex
Tighter underpants, perhaps?🤔
The fretless ones….
FretlessPants – a seasonal stocking-filler for the bass player in your life!!
Turn a tired old root note plodder into Percy Jones with these miracle pants!!
Just send a postal order for £12.75 to POBox “JazzPants”, along with a stamped, addressed envelope – why spend hours “woodshedding” in your attic when you could just buy FretlessPants for instant boooodowwwwing!!
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I think Moose is too fond of his Root Note pants.
Plodding away…
…in your attic? “Woodshedding?”
Would she? I don’t know, why don’t you ask her?
He should have said that song was written by Daryl Hall, not me. And if anyone did cover one of my songs, I’d be delighted.
@Tiggerlion
While not 100% sure PY wrote it, Marmalade and the Jam have both covered Toast
Arf. I’m pretty sure Honey did too.
A spillage ensured Hot Chocolate have that accolade and all.
And more recently covered by Lovely Eggs
@Rigid-Digit
Bit of a marmite band though
Not forgetting Pâté Smith.
And NutElla Fitzgerald.
Or even Patum Pepperium Benatar
DJ Cheese….?
Bobby Crushed Avocado
Dairylea Lewis?
Dairylea Hall & John Rolled Oats.
You’re outta toast, you’re outta toast.
Watch out boy she’ll chew you up etc
It’s no wonder they got badly burned when they invested their retirement savings in a luncheonette
It gives me no pleasure to report that my prediction of multiple plays of Milk and Alcohol on the BBC upon the passing of Wilko Johnson came, indeed, to pass.
Yes indeed. Aunty should employ us!
(Wo)man of the match: Lisa o’Neill. The best “other singer” rendition I have ever heard and will do more for her than all the critic end of year poll placings put together. Magnificent.
Magnificent is the word. I was smiling through tears. I didn’t think I could like Glen Hansard any more than I did. It seems I was wrong.
Star Star by The Frames is a masterpiece.
Glen Hansard has my eternal praise for writing the music for the film and musical ‘Once’ … ‘Falling Slowly’ is just beautiful
The Frames were one of the best examples of ‘right band, wrong time’. I saw them more than once in the back room of the Portland Arms when they should have been playing the Corn Exchange.
Agreed. I am a big fan of Lisa and felt a bit embarrassed to be excited watching a funeral when I realised it was she who was stepping up to the mic for “that” song.
I have to say that when I first saw Shane on The Tube in 1983-4 – possibly still fronting a band effectively called Kiss My Arse – the idea that one day I would be watching rolling live coverage of his funeral on the hated proddy feckin English BBC of all things would have been laughable. And there was not one iota of compromise in anything he did. That my friends is a life lived.
An iota or two of compromise in his ‘refreshment’ regime might not have gone amiss 😢
Yes I think his life was probably hell on earth seemingly needing to spend it completely obliterated in order to get through it.
… I couldn’t eat a whole one.
You’ve tried, then?
Come on, we’re all broadminded here!
Positively Cinemascope-minded.