Today we’ll be tackling the issue of Dietary Supplements! The expensive multi-vitamin, mineral, herb, and other pills and capsules that are supposed to compensate for a diet lacking in such. High Street franchises make millions from flogging them, but have you ever experienced any noticeable benefit from swallowing them? Experienced an improvement in any aspect of your life?
Full disclaimer: I may have benefitted from an increased immunity to colds while living in Europe from ingesting Vitamin C. May have. Difficult to tell, and it would be easy to persuade me they were placebos. But other vitamin and Magic Herb nostrums I’ve tried over the years have passed through my system with no effect other than wallet-thinning. Is the entire business a scam?
I’m generally in agreement that there’s a lot of snake oil with dietary supplements and have never knowingly taken any myself – my diet is rich in fruits, probiotics (yoghurt), vegetables and is generally fresh foods, so I believe that I should get all the essential vitamins, minerals etc. Also, living near the equator I don’t really need any vitamin D supplements…..
The only one I can see any benefits from is that the wife takes some to give her vitamin B12, which is lacking in her vegetarian diet.
… but are there any noticeable physical benefits from taking it? Would she experience a deterioration in some aspects of her health if she stopped? The arguments against testing that – why take the risk, it’s doing no harm, and on paper it seems to be necessary – are what the industry relies on, not tangible health benefits.
Definitely no noticeable benefits – she’s always been healthy anyway. It’s more a case of, on paper, her diet is lacking in B12 and so its seen as worthwhile.
A vegetarian writes . . .
After a few close calls I ended up being rejected at a blooding appointment due to being somewhat anaemic. After a bit of a communication failure I eventually consulted a doctor. The result of that was that I started to take commercial B12 daily. At my next blood doning appointment I was passed fit to do so. Sadly that was my last donation before my prostate cancer diagnosis which, even after treatment, bars me from donating again.
A blooding appointment…sounds quite primal…
Because of my beige diet, and UV intolerance as (a) side-effects of immunosuppressant meds (b) A Ginger, I have to take D3, B12, Iron, Calcium, probably some more I can’t remember right now, and probiotics.
The probiotics are heavy-duty waxy plastic capsules designed to survive stomach acid and deposit their cargo of a billion fauna in my intestines. They’re quite pricey – about £25 a month – but if I don’t take them, I fart a lot (more).
Ooooffff.
Mostly rely on the diet like Chris, but I take vitamins D3 and K2. The former not because of any shortage of sun but because I was put on it when I was having radiotherapy and stuck with it to stop the old bones crumbling generally. I added K2 during lockdown because they work well together, and ramping up the immune system seemed like a good idea at the time. Also black elderberry when I had COVID, supposed to ward off colds and flu and also does good things for the immune system. I’ve no idea whether any of them actually work for me, but I haven’t died of anything so I suppose they must do.
This is my feeling about taking vit. C – that it probably did some good. But in the absence of any evidence (the “not taking it” option wasn’t tested at the same time) it remains just a feeling, and this (I suspect) is what the industry relies on; the assumption that things would have been worse had we not taken it.
Same goes for prescription drugs, doesn’t it? I’ve been on various cardiac management pills for 17 years, and they get changed from time to time not because there’s any evidence that they work or don’t work, but because of side effects which suggest a change might be a good idea. (Statins definitely work, however, to judge by my world-beating cholesterol scores.)
I expect Retro will be along in a while to explain it all to us.
Have never really taken any vitamin tablets but took a couple of joint tablets which if honest never really did much (Glucosomine).
I did take cinnamon tablets for a while which coincided with blood sugar levels improving but was it coincidence?
On a recent visit to the USA I forgot to take my cholesterol tablets with me for 18 days. Fortunately in the words of Mr Dwight I’m still standing.
Mike – your cardiac medicine must have undergone thorough testing to prove that it actually worked (to some degree or other) before it could be brought to market. This isn’t the case with dietary supplements. They’re bought over the counter, classed as foodstuffs, and not required to show any benefits. Neither do they promise them – the whole thing is taken on trust, not at all like prescription drugs.
I tried Glucosamine as I have arthritic hands and knees. No improvement after 4 months. My knees are helped by cycling, hands respond a little to stretching the joints but aren’t great some days.
There’s a little exercise I use for my hands (thank goodness Moose isn’t awake yet) – fold your fingers over the palm as far as they will go – don’t make a fist – and do a miniature Mexican crowd wave with your fingertips, pressing firmly and releasing in rapid sequence. You should feel (and hear) a soft clicking in your hand bones. You can angle your hand up and down while you do it. Your thumb is just a spectator. A few seconds now and then when you feel like it.
Why not alternate between the fingers and thumb so that the thumb doesn’t feel left out?
Because reasons. Drink your milk.
That feels really good, better than stretching the muscles. Thanks HP
The thing is remembering to do it. It has a cumulative (perhaps performative?) effect. A few seconds, regular-like, every now and then, even when you don’t “need” it, will ease your hand-bones up a treat, you mark my words.
The exercise was shown to me by an Apsara dancer here in Siam – they have the most extraordinary hand movements and wrist flexibility (down, Moose), and this is one of their “secrets”.
I had the early onset of arthritic knee problems – mainly when my knees were cramped on a long haul flight. Took up aqua aerobics which I have been doing now for 8 or 9 years and no further problems
Wow! How do you hold your breath for so long? I imagine those nose pinchers for in the water after a year or two.
After a certain age you don’t have a left knee and a right knee any more, but a good knee and a bad knee. My bad knee, which used to give me pain when climbing stairs, has greatly improved since I started taking turmeric every day. There is no proven medical benefit, but it seems to work for me and at worst it’s harmless.
This is a good example. Proven result, as near as laboratory testing as possible. Next time my knee Breaks Bad I’ll give it a shot.
Alright Gatz, no need to show off about having one good knee! 🙂
Turmeric seems to have improved my dodgy knees too, I started on it a few months back & do feel like there is a difference. Could be wholly the placebo effect, but seems to work for me
Exactly my experience, and it did take a couple of months to notice a consistent benefit.
My sense is that if you are an otherwise healthy individual, supplements aren’t necessary. But there is a whole spectrum of conditions where certain kinds of supplements might he helpful. When I moved to the US for a while, I took with me a bad cold that wouldn’t get better. That became chronic sinusitus and an ongoing fight against a deluge of post-viral symptoms – chronic fatigue, food sensitivities, gut issues, new allergies and other auto-immune problems – that doctors could not get to grips with. So I ended up going down the supplements path (among others) in a desperate attempt to feel better. Two things, I think, were definitely a big help. One was chlorella, a type of freshwater algae that comes in tablet or powder form. The other was bovine colostrum. Both gave me a noticeable boost in energy and I continue to take chlorella every day.
Do you have to clean the algae out with a wire brush?
Ouch! Are you overfeeding the fish again?
Most of these supplements have not passes medical assessments of their benefits, otherwise they would be sold as (probably expensive) medicines.
That said I still take a daily multivitamin because my wife wants me to. (Tried glucosamine and also felt no different).
What I can say is beware of real scammers. One of my students works for a nutrisupplement company. They supply Holland&Barrett amongst others. The others include people who sell the same tablets sold to H&S for £3, that H&S sell for £8, for £50. In a nice tub that looks like a fist apparently. But same stuff.
Buy cheap placebos I say, not expensive ones
We’re getting into Herbalife territory here.
Apart from the very rare cases where a person on a modern diet and with a modern quality of life (access to sunshine etc) is deficient in a vitamin or mineral, they do absolutely nothing. Vitamins are vitamins not because of any magical properties, but because they are chemicals that our body can’t manufacture so we need to get them through diet. There is absolutely no benefit in taking more than needed, and in some cases it can cause severe illness (Vitamin A, for example).
There is a mass of scientific research with double-blind trials etc showing that Vitamin C does essentially nothing for colds/flu. We can thank Linus Pauling for starting that myth.
With regards to herbal supplements, it depends what chemicals are within them (they contain thousands) and what effect those chemicals have. In virtually every case, if there is some chemical agent that is beneficial, it has been purified and released in a more controllable form, i.e. without the thousands of other chemicals that have no effect or adverse effects. In general, if the packaging says something along the lines of “may aid in the treatment of” or mentions anything about “boosting the immune system” then it is most likely bullshit
The fact that Chemists/Pharmacies are pedlars of of pure pseudoscience is something I find very depressing.
I think I enjoyed the taste of the fizzy vit. C tablets as much as anything. Perfectly prepared to admit they did zip-ola.
Run out of fizzy vit. C tablets. Just add a steradent tablet to a glass of orange juice.
Steradent. *snork*.
Out of interest, @Podicle – are you a pharmacologist/nutritionist/food scientist?
Ummmm, well thanks, @mikethep …..
Broadly what @martin-hairnet says, otherwise well and otherwise full and varied omnivorous diet, total waste of gut space, anything surplus to need coming out the other end. Or accumulating unnecessarily. Or, remember polar bears liver, dangerously. But some diets and some dark northern climes can leave you short of some essentials. Actually NHS advice to take additional Vit D in winter months, tho few bother. B12 deficiency can be very bad news, if you have an autoimmune incapability to absorb it. It can plummet if you take the diabetes drug metformin, tho seldom with the same neurodestructive outcome. Even HPs beloved old faithful of Vit c, I have seen scurvy a couple of times due to the dietary rigidity of the individuals in question.
In a nut shell, multivits bought from the chemist on a feel good whim, don’t bother. If you are unwell or at risk of certain deficiency syndromes, follow advice given, where or if sought.
That’ll be 30 guineas. Each.
Yes, having taken metformin for years I now have to take B12 daily.
In winters I (and most Swedes) take vitamine D daily, and certainly imagine that I feel better now when I do, than I did when I was younger and didn’t. Less tired (but still tired…)
As a post-menopausal woman I started to take “chewies” designed to help with hair volume, and that has really made a big change. My hair had become very thin and lifeless and I lost a lot of hair every time I washed or brushed it, but since taking these daily my hair has become twice as thick, healthier and doesn’t fall out excessively anymore. They contain biotin and zink, as well as extracts from fruits, veggies, grain and herbs, and thankfully they’re really yummy as well.
Quick! Send me some chewies!
I initially thought you meant what I refer to as chewies, namely vile lumps of prescibable chalk to persuade menopausal bones to absorb a little of their minerally content. Said to be as enticing as blackboard chalk, for those who remember the oddball in every class who ate the teachers chalk. (Not an euphemism!!) Probably a form of pica, by the way. (Google it.)
Me too before it’s too late !
Seriously – got a link?
If it’s for post menopausal women will it also make me grow breasts? If so double great
“[vitamin C] is truly a two-headed Janus, a Dr Jekyll-Mr Hyde, an oxymoron of antioxidants.”
This seems to be based on science and says don’t:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161208-why-vitamin-supplements-could-kill-you
Right, that’s vitamin pills off the list. What about herbs and minerals?
My sister – who is quite mad – is a vegan, out of lifestyle choice and Meat Guilt, and supplements her diet with an arsenal of vitamins and herbs and minerals in pill form. She had less colour than a Kleenex, and weighed about as much. Rattled when she walked. Haven’t seen or heard from her for years – she may have blown away on a sea breeze.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/14/daily-multi-vitamins-may-improve-brain-function-in-older-people-us-study
Otherwise as in “daily multi vitamins may NOT improve brain function in older people.” So, more research needed. Too many confounding factors in saying “may”: those who do take them may well be a healthier self-selecting group anyway. The “worried well” tend to be better off and less prone, therefore, to the scourges of deprivation related morbidities.
Also too, the study was basically phoning people up once a year and scoring them on “recalling stories, showing verbal fluency and ordering digits”. Since I’ve always been hopeless about recalling stories (unlike Stephen King), and even less adroit with numbers, I can look forward to an early grave.
I’ve taken Omega 3 & 6 capsules since the doc suggested that my cholesterol balance was wrong about 15 years ago. I couldn’t see how I could get the required omegas in my normal diet so went for the supplements. I’ve no idea if they have any effect, I guess I ought to go back for another blood test but it’s a bit of a pain! I’m about to change GPs so I assume I’ll have to go through some sort of process then, perhaps I’ll find out if it’s been worthwhile!
Meanwhile a million oily fish die to make each bottle of capsules……….
Eat oily fish ( I like smoked peppered mackerel) and cut out some of the middlemen.
That’s nothing to do with me! I’m vegetarian which is why I feel the need for this small supplement.
But if your Omega supplement comes from oily fish, then your vegetarianism is compromised. They don’t just take a bit of oil from them and then let them swim away.
Flax seeds and walnuts are good sources of Omega-3. Omega-6 seems to be present in so many commonly-eaten foods that I wouldn’t think a supplement is really necessary.
But I’m a vegetarian so the supplement very much doesn’t come from oily fish. The ones I use are flax seed oil. My calculation was that to get the same from basic flax seeds, it would cost far more and be more inconvenient….. and I don’t like walnuts!
I take fish oil capsules, and also try to have oily fish once a week. If I don’t take the capsules, I think several joints start protesting, so I keep taking them.
My Mum fed me daily spoonfuls of cod liver oil. The taste still lingers, but I’m not sure about the benefits.
Mum used to dose us once a week with a spoonful of cod liver oil, back in the ’50s. It seems to have been standard medical advice back then. Later our mum switched us to Haliborange chewable tablets, which were much nicer. Quite pleasant-tasting in fact. Halibut oil + orange (vitamin C) and quite possibly some other good-for-you stuff.
Possibly why I still have (the ruins of) my own teeth despite neglecting them quite a bit. That and the free school milk.
Yes! Haliborange! What a giant step forward that was!
And a boon for cold-water swimmers (ie anyone who went to the Baths).
I’m pretty sure I owe my Bronze, Silver, and Gold lifesaving awards to Haliborange.
Well, that and the webbed hands and feet because, y’know, Teesside in the ’60s and ’70s.
Amirite, Baron?
I owe my prodigious swimming skills to Horlicks Tablets, which were for some reason only sold in municipal swimming pools.
Much to my chagrin, Horlicks Tablets appear to have been discontinued…
The decline of civilisation like wot we knew it. Hell/handcart interface.
etc.
This is horrible, horrible news. They wus fab.
If anyone worldwide can find them, I will never have been so pleased to be proved wrong…
Appear to be on sale in boots, a****n etc
Huzzah! Maybe there was a “supply chain” issue, due to reasons…
Don’t know where you’re seeing these, Hubes – I can see many, many Horlicks-related products on the dodger’s website – but no tablets…
Sorry fitter, I didn’t take a proper look, out of sorts with a cold. Google seem to have joined horlicks with Scottish tablet and produced a monster.
Apologies.
Horlicks-flavoured Scottish tablet…aii! Caramba!…
…and jings…
My mum was a Horlicks user. She used to like the tablets, too. She had a quite amazing ability to fall asleep within what seemed like seconds of sitting down. In the evening, she’d settle in her chair about 6.30pm and fall asleep for a couple of hours. On waking a couple of hours later, she’d usually say ‘I’d better have a Horlicks now, or I won’t go to sleep in bed’. Which she did. Hoorah for Horlicks.
*melts*
*rests perfectly-formed chin on inter-twined finger-bridge*
*sighs, dreamily*
Tell us about your prodigious swimming skills, Burtipoos.
*shivers with thrills of anticipation*
*simper* My breast stroke was the talk of five counties.
I’ve just inflated my pyjama bottoms.
I’m sure I remember DRINKING vitamin laced, ultra-sweet orange juice which was issued by the NHS to ward off ricketts. Google searches suggest I was probably too young to have received it (born 1967), but perhaps the programme was run for longer in Glasgow given the city’s reputation for poor health in the C20?
I have no idea where the dramatic (possibly even performative) capitalisation of DRINKING came from, and too late to edit it now.
DONOVAN probably…
The inspiration for CodLiver Oil and Orange Juice by Hamish Imlach…
Good man Jeff. It is getting a bit ‘brrr’. I’ve just put on my pinstripe bathrobe. I’ve yet to master the up vent, or the all around sprout breeze, like car air conditioning if you’re stuck in a traffic jam behind a particularly virulent tractor. The silent greatcoat gas attack waft in municipal buildings however, is a fine (f)art indeed.
The kippery burps, too, about fifteen minutes after taking a capsule.
Kippery Burps, one of the finest jazz bassists of the 1940s.
Noted particularly for his trio work with Art Deco and Dan Gerous.
Turns out Kippery Burps’ real name was Keith Burton.
Never meet your heroes, kids.
*Sob*
I have one of those pro-biotic yoghurty things every morning.
Does it work? A morning evacuation is easier, and indigestion and bloating doesn’t happen as much as it used to.
Although I do wonder if switching from ale to lager, and less whiskey is an underlying reason. Might’ve saved me 4 quid a week.
I do love an anecdote thread! Did I tell you about the time I met Elvis Costello in a agent’s toilet?
The Mediterranean Diet is the best researched diet. Its pyramid shape is crucial. Consume little of the foods at the top (red meat and refined sugars) and loads of the stuff at the bottom (fruit, veg, pulses etc). It’s even better if you switch white bread, pasta and rice for wholemeal.
As for statins, the 4S study sealed the real back in the nineties and, if anything, over time, the evidence of benefit has only become stronger and the evidence of side effects weaker.
Eat well, don’t bother with vitamins and keep taking the tablets.
Statins are prescription medicaments, so not really dietary supplements as understood for the purposes of the thread. Thank you for your comment! Your participation is important to us. Press #1 if you’d like to take part in a quick survey!
In my peculiar way, that’s the point I was making. What’s option C?
I took glucosamine for several years when my hips first started to creak and I’m sure I did see some sort of improvement for a while. Still had to resort to surgery in the end, but even the consultant was surprised my clapped out joints lasted a further 15 years. Hard to see how a placebo could mask a physical degeneration, so maybe glucosamine worked or I was just lucky.
And we haven’t even started on antioxidants.
This is how science works: it was hypothesised in the 90s that, as free radical damage occurs in many diseases, blocking some of this damage with antioxidants may provide a health benefit. 30 years of subsequent clinical studies have repeatedly shown that not only is there no benefit, but in many cases (Vitamin E,Vitamin A and Beta-carotene in particular) taking antioxidant supplements actually increased mortality. Turns out free radicals are quite important in the immune system. So from a science perspective, the hypothesis was tested and found to be null.
But I can still walk into any pharmacy and supermarket and see products emblazoned with antioxidant labels. This would be like walking into a drugstore in the 1920s and seeing ads for radium.
That’s antioxidants joining vitamins in the bin, then. What about minerals like such as zinc and iron eg? Copper? Unobtanium? Any benefits from ingesting those?
You need them: but if you’re eating a balanced and varied diet, you’re probably getting them anyway. Might need a bit extra if you’ve been diagnosed with a problem which affects absorption.
I did encounter a cardiology consultant who maintained that everyone needed a mineral supplement, as intensive farming had leeched all the minerals out of the ground and they weren’t being replaced – so the mineral level in our food was lower than it used to be. He turned out to have shares in a company that made a mixed mineral supplement.
Crap diet and crap intestines make my absorption rates lower than most, so I take iron and calcium (I have a Dexa scan every few years to make sure my bones are not crumbling).
Moosey probably needs a zinc supplement.
Hurr!
I have a Zyn supplement… a very old cymbal catalogue
Vitamin D, Magnesium, Zinc and cod liver oil daily
I attribute this to having a super immune system which meant I never got Covid even to this day or indeed any other cold or flu
Also means I can drink loads of wine
Any ailment can be fixed by Dr Google in my world
You’d need a super immune system to take those 4 daily, I suppose. (Oh; attribute them.)