I’ve been listening to lots of acoustic folky singer-songwriter stuff as is my wont, and am increasingly struck by huge amount of guitar squeak on it. Looking up the problem online I’ve read about special oiled strings to avoid it and also using the technique of lifting your hands off after playing a chord instead of sliding them along. It is possible to eliminate it – for instance you never hear any squeaking on Gillian Welch and David Rawlings songs. If I was a music producer I would operate a zero-tolerance squeak policy in my studio. I can’t understand why musicians who take so much trouble writing, singing and making a record are seemingly blind to the issue. Maybe singers are playing the guitar themselves and would be better hiring in more skilled performers. Perhaps more sophisticated and sensitive microphones tracked to every instrument exposes it whereas on older recordings you cannot hear it.
Either way it really gets to me like a high-pitched “chalk down a blackboard”, only worse, and I find myself awaiting the squeaks with growing intolerance. Does any one else notice it as much as I do? Also the guitarists among you, how do you tackle it?
It tends to come from how you mic an acoustic guitar. An ideal position for one mic would be ahead of the sound hole. If you’re using two mics, one would be even closer to the fingers. In my experience, the song is often new and you’re just glad to have a take where you (or the other session guitarist) gets the notes, feel, detail, tempo and strumming or fingering pattern right. We don’t tend to mind the odd bit of evidence that this stuff is manual labour.
Speaking of which, this is my favourite bit of ambient squeaking noise – including plenty of points where he hits the frets with the guitar slide:
Actually that clip sounds ok to me. Interesting it makes a difference where mics are sited. The worst thing I find is where the guitar squeaks happen when no actual notes are being played and nothing can disguise them.
The first time I noticed significant guitar squeak was on Sinead O’Connor’s ‘Mandinka’, and I thought it sounded great, really suiting the record. I can’t say I’ve been much bothered by it elsewhere, but now you’ve mentioned it I’ll no doubt hear it everywhere!
Noisy inhalation by some singers is very annoying.
As Yet Untitled by our mutual friend Terence Trent D’Arby should not be listened to on headphones as you can hear everything that’s going on in his mouth. Very authentic… and revolting.
Zoe Ball does a slurpy inhalation thing between sentences that once noticed can never be un-noticed.
Oh God yes. The other radio thing I can’t help but fixate upon is ‘smacky mouth’.
@minibreakfast @leicester-bangs my dad in a too-much-time-in-retirement issue is mildly obsessed with updating me on spotting of this related speech issue
I heard of this phenomenon recently, and it is quite annoying. Although not as annoying as the woman in that video.
Has your dad tried golf?
Hah he lives next to one but no its the work of the devil. Far better to talk to your son about things that annoy the hell out of you.
Labour MP/Brexiteer Gisela Stuart sounds like she has a layer of Popping Candy on her tongue when she’s speaking.
Once you’ve had Rufus Wainwright’s regular “SKkskskssllllssss” betwixt-line inhalation pointed out, you can never rest easy in front of Want One again.
I actually find it quite engaging. For example the Dylan boot / alternative version of Blood On the Tracks – Blood On The Tapes with plenty of squeak and even buttons or cufflinks scraping on the guitar – just so intimate.
I like the squeak myself.
Plenty of guitar squeak on Rickie Lee Jones’ Night Train. I really like it.
If you lifted your hands off after playing a chord wouldn’t the notes you’ve just lovingly strummed die rather? At least if there’s guitar squeak you know it’s being played by a human.
Guilty as charged, by the way. This is horrendous… https://bluehouserecords.bandcamp.com/track/here-comes-the-rain
See also the recording I did on Sunday. Squeak city. Nice track – good job. Is that chirruping at the beginning and throughout string squeak? Personally I’d try to remove it as it’s distracting.
That was recorded in the round with a Rode Soundfield ST450 mic direct to 2-track. The sound of real people in a real room playing real instruments in real time. Possibly the best mic I’ve ever used. That’s what it sounded like in real life.
Next time it’ll be back to mono!
I could spend my life and pawn my house buying mics.
There’s a couple of U48s from 1966 or so on Reverb at the moment. £20k.
Oh don’t. I use an AT 4033 beloved of Nashiville engineers for acoustics and that bugger hears everything. I also love my cheapo Thomann TBone ribbon mic which is a steal at about 65 quid and sounds fab for electric guitar.
Shure SM7b is my holy grail. Adore it. And I have a Neumann TLM103 for large-diaphragm condenser stuff. And you can never go wrong with the trusty SM57.
Audio interfaces, pres and compressors are a total black hole too. Recently dived into the money pit that is Universal Audio. The plugins are RIDIC. And make me jones very very hard for their real boxes – the 1176 and LA-2A in particular.
I tell you, I could spend millions given half a chance. Could wipe out a lottery win in an afternoon.
I too had a SM7B – never used it. Flogged it off. Don’t know why. But I have a TLM103 too for vocals which is great. I’ve two 4033s as a pair for things and an Oktava OM12 with different capsules which is great. And a 57 ad 58 of course. And the ribbon. So I am good for mics. I just got the Cakewalk LA-2A plugin emulation which is brilliant. I have GAS for a Golden Age compressor to go with my GA Pre73 pre and eq modules. Love this stuff!
Oh compressors. The stuff of nightmares. I adore them.
I’ve been looking at mic pres a lot recently. Neve and Great River stuff is making me want to cry. Or win the lottery and set up/run a massive studio for fun. I want to learn how to drive a big SSL desk, and then I’ll basically be busy for life.
Do we need a Home Recording thread? I think we do.
Oh yes – count me in. And/or a playback one. I could go on for hours…
I’ve made quite a few, er, “home recordings”
hurrrrr
That Soundfield pees all over the SM7b from a great height, but you’d hope it would at 10 times the price*. I’ve used Neumann ribbons and everything, and the Soundfield is the only one I’ve ever heard which has no “character”. It is just totally natural-sounding.
I sat about a yard away from that mic, just out of the circle, and it really did sound just like that. That recording is a snapshot in time, which is just what some records should be.
(*) Who needs a new car, anyway?
I like the colouring of the SM7. It works great on baritone and alto voices for really intimate stuff. I wouldn’t use it for instruments I don’t think. But I do prefer dynamics for deeper singers anyway. I always feel like there’s a bit too much air in most big condsensers I’ve used. Great for higher voices but I like a bit of low-mid poke which I feel you get more of with a dynamic like the 7. Just a personal preference thing I guess. 🙂
As an aside, when alerted to this thread, the titular Helen* admitted that she’d never noticed the squeaks before, and she’s on it.
*I’m here all week.
Prince’s Sometimes It Snows In April was the first time I noticed it. Bit of an affectation if you ask me.
It usually arises cos you’re trying to get to the next chord or finger shape and, unlike, say, piano, you struggle to do that instantaneously.
You might not be able to. hahahahsaha
Twang, your instantaneous squeak-free shape-shifting is the stuff of legend.
The opposite to this real-life sound is that Def Leppard album where Producer Matt made them record it note-by-note to eliminate string squeak and snare rattle. It sounds like it was recorded in a vacuum – rock without the roll.
They recorded CHORDS one note at a time. Mad. It was Mutt Lange though.
Quite enjoy the clacking of Topper Headon’s pedals at the beginning of Jail Guitar Doors.
There’s a Colleen track where the squeak is so heavily reverbed that it’s practically the main instrument . Summer Water? Lovely sound.
I love all that. Tapping foot etc. Authentic!
It’s an interesting topic. As Bart says, micing approach can make it worse, and Skirky is right, in some cases its inevitable (though can be ameliorated somewhat mind you it’s a faff). But also there’s a production decision about whether it adds to the overall feel (dare I provoke derision from the synth pop people by mentioning authenticity?) or is an irritating noise. I know mix engineers who hate it and go through each guitar track either cutting it out or muting it as far as possible. Others leave it in. Like all questions of taste it’s a tricky one. Personally I don’t mind it but sometimes it’s really annoying. On the fence as usual.
Heavy-gauge strings tend to cause more squeak than lighter gauge, in my experience cos the winds on the strings are that much bigger. But yeah, I guess you’re always gonna get more squeak if you close-mic the fingerboard rather than X-Ying a couple of good pencil condensers somewhere near the soundhole.
The frequency response of the mic will make a big difference too – lots of mics favoured for acoustic work can be quite toppy or top-middy which is going to mean squeak gets through more.
But saying all that, I like a bit of room and non-musical noise. Love the sound of a piano sustain pedal being released at the end of the song, or a reverb tank splashing when the amp is knocked or moved, or a fleeting buzz as a snare resonates with a bass note. It’s all cool. I guess it’s about how skilled the recording engineer is in finding that balance between “real” and “really intrusive”.
Duly derided.
First time I noticed it was on Mouthful of grass which was the instrumental on the B-side of Alright Now. Taken from Free’s eponymous 2nd album.
I think the first time I remember noticing it is on “Grantchester Meadows” off UmmaGumma.
Hm, this is interesting. I can’t hear it at all. Well, I probably can, but I don’t really understand what part of the guitar noises it is that you hear as a “squeeky” so I can’t separate it from the rest. I’ve listened to the exemples given on this thread and I still don’t know what you mean! To me it’s all just what guitars sound like, what they’re supposed to sound like. Perhaps I’ve been ruined by listening to an awful lot of old blues – more likely to annoy me through crackles and pops of the primitive recordings, or muffled and strange sounding vocals.
OK, listen to the first 10 seconds of this. There is probably more in the rest of it but I find it hard to get past the first 10 seconds! The Julie Byrne album is a prime example of beautiful music, only most of it would be so much better with less squeak. Can you hear anything at all grating?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZbJWddRrIY
Blimey! That IS loud.
Which squeak do you mean? The lovely guitar or her ghastly voice? Sorry, I bought this on spec and it goes in the bin. Along with the godawful Foxygen. I hate these e music whims…..
Well, I hear it, but I’m totally fine with it. Sloppy, yes; annoying, no.
I grew up in a house where several people were always rehearsing some piece of music on some kind of instrument; that was torture most of the time, I guess as long as a piece of music is played in one go from beginning to end, nothing much bothers me! 🙂
I wish I had your ears, Locust. It would make listening a much easier experience!
The squeak of sweaty fingers on strings is quite clear on here from about 18 seconds in:
Seems to me, as a non-player, that if the tune and the playing of it are really good, it’s no problem.
I remember being told many years ago that it’s sometimes unavoidable if the fingers need to be moved significantly between chords.
The less involving I find the music, the more annoying it can be, if present. That’s my view.
You know what i love? Drum squeak. Specifically, a squeaky bass pedal. Makes the drums sound alive, I think.
There’s one Led Zeppelin song in particular (can’t remember which one) where John Bonham sounds like he needs a good oiling.
You can hear a lot of hi hat squeak on Whole Lotta Love.
And Bonz was pretty much always well-oiled.
There’s quite a bit of Pongo’s bass pedal squeaking on the first Fabs LP.
Since I’ve Been Loving You – squeaktastic! Although didn’t Jam-master Page celebrate managing to get rid of it on the remasters?
Also, see the last hurrah of Status Quo’s Spinning Wheel Blues.
Not on the first Remasters he didn’t.
Given the vast number of Zeppelin re-releases that have come out over the years it is entirely possible it has now been digitally erased.
Elvin Jones had a squeaky pedal on Greensleeves on Coltrane’s Africa/Brass.
I always squeaky strings denoted a poser showing their authenticity, mind.
There’s quite a bit of squeak on ‘Think For A Minute’ by yer Housemartins
I love a bit of deliberate guitar squeak, as evidenced in the solos by Billy Gibbons (the outro solo):
and Andy Partridge:
This is achieved by hitting the string with the pick and the thumb at the same time.
Ahh well the ZZ Top one isn’t string squeak, that’s called a pinched harmonic…..no, come back…..made by picking the string with the plectrum and simultaneously catching it with you knuckle to get a very high harmonic of the note rather than the note itself. BG and Rory Gallagher were experts at this.
I was going to mention “pinched harmonic” but I didn’t want to get too technical.
Learnt that from Mick Ralphs in an early issue of Kerrang!. Happy days….
Related in an unrelated way, fascinating interview with Harvey Mandel in latest Mojo (or Unshod, can never tell the one from twain) and “his invention” of tapping.
Mmmm lots of people think they invented tapping. I saw Rory do it in the early 70s.
Here’s Steve Hackett tapping away on the glorious mess that is The Return of the Giant Hogweed, recorded in 1971:
What an excellent clip!
PG here is surprisingly sexy… er…. if you like that sort of thing… ahem… like a cross between Marc Bolan and Alternative Carpark (basically I grew up knowing him as the mad scientist of his solo records) while PC is visibly having a whale of a time.
Top montageing by Willy Botteldoorn. We don’t hear enough from the Bottelmeister!
Good innit. Back in pre-YouTube days, such things were the stuff of reverently passed-round dvd bootlegs. That whole session is wonderful. Just before PG shaved a great big cove in the middle of his centre parting. While channelling Roger Chapman, Marc Bolan and Otis Redding.
I reckon that shave was just a damage limitation exercise after setting his floppy fringe alight trying to get a reluctant five-skinner going late one evening.
That, or nits.
He used to say it was so he could swat nits as the ran from one side to the other.
We should have a “…and then I looked up and saw Eddie Van Halen in the audience” thread. Starting with Steve Hackett.
Roy Buchanan made it his forte.
Dead right, Roy was a master of the pinched harmonic, playing whole phrases of them.
BVs Joe Pasquale
Just realised this is the “rehearsal take” but it was the song I thought about when I read the OP.
Love a bit of guitar squeak.
Two prime examples are:
the introduction to Ramones KKK Took My Baby Away
the solo on We Will Rock You
I like some grit with my grist. Bring on the squeak, I’ll hear it and see the hand slide to the next chord; it adds to the experience. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a winding squeak that sounded out of place. John Lee Hooker never took his boots off.
I don’t mind it and if I manage it while switching between the two chords I can manage I feel quite please with myself.
Does it happen with other string instruments? Do Vanessa Mae and Julian Lloyd Weber squeak? I’m sure there’s squeak on Stray Cats double bass……
I had a thought. Do you think squeaks are more prominent because people play acoustic guitar quieter these days?
Hear me out. The louder you are strumming or plucking the strings, the louder the guitar will be in comparison to the squeaks made by the fret hand moving about. Sixties guitarists (thinking Bert Jansch, Paul Simon) sound to my ears as if they are attacking the instrument more, whereas yer modern singer-songwriter is more gentle, letting the notes resonate.
Tell me I’m right.
The only offering I’ve noticed guitar squeaks on is ‘No Regrets’ by Scott Walker, and they add enormously to its charm.
Rattus Norvegicus – pretty squeaky
You hear it so often that I’ve always assumed the performer and/or producer wants it for some reason.
Where is Johnny Concheroo? He’d be in guitar nerd heaven on this thread.
I haven’t a clue what you are talking about but am very glad that you are.
as a four chord wonder, can I also bring “fret buzz” to the party?
both my cheapie guitars suffer horribly from this…dispite much hamfisted setting up.
my fave track demonstrating this is “small black flowers that grow in the sky”…catchy title that…from everything must go by the manics.
if its ok for JDB, I guess i’ll live with mine.
can we also have a shoutout for “snare rattle”…..at least you know theres a drumkit in the room when the guitarist cranks out his intro.
FISH.
Both quality ingredients to a great track @Fish.