Of course a band is only as good as its rhythm section. Few are better than Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, here showing how it’s done – note how Mick adds tension in the otherwise pretty simple verse by playing that weird off beat, so when he hits the back beat in the chorus the whole thing takes off. And McVie (J) effortlessly bounces around the beat with long melodic lines before perfectly locking in.
Who are the other great rhythm sections, and why?
I didn’t realise until quite recently that it’s Fleetwood/McView on “Werewolves of London”, with Warrren and Waddy on piano and guitar respectively.
https://youtu.be/iDpYBT0XyvA
Wow – that’s news to me too…*reaches for vinly*
There’s an excellent Friends of Dan podcast where Waddy tells the story. Very funny.
https://m.mixcloud.com/friendsofdanmusicpodcast/084-waddy-wachtel/
Right, somewhere down below I expect to find someone else has beaten me to it, but I’m going for Kirke and Fraser.
*scrolls down page looking for the Free boys*
Do you want to rephrase that?
I’ll always have a soft spot for George Murray and Dennis Davis. Station to Station is still my all time favourite album of all time and those two are immense on it. Unfussy, but like clockwork. You can hear it on the Nassau gig. They are the perfect backup for Alomar, Heydon and Bowie to do their thing.
https://youtu.be/kj414ZrPY2U
True. Correct. Right.
Sly and Robbie.
Trevor and Woody – could rock out and/or show a deft, melodic feel according to what each song demanded.
I remember a thread on Sly and Robbie when I posited that they must have played on more records than anyone other rhythm section. The first 30 secs of Pull Up To The Bumper Baby demonstrates their genius to full effect.
It’ll be a minority view here unless @bingo-little jumps in to back me up, but I reckon Joe Lally and Brendan Canty from Fugazi were incredible
https://youtu.be/QMWgdZhjr-s
I was coming here to post exactly this. They were sen-freaking-sational.
I’ve got a vague feeling we’ve discussed this before as I remember nominating Mick Karn and Steve Jansen of Japan. Since then I’ve got to know more of the music they made post Japan and remain firmly of the opinion that they are the most interesting rythmn section ever, bar none. Basically cos I find then both so idiosyncratic, unique and identifiable, and so very different from the normal rock/pop bass and drums.
Chris Frantz, Tina Weymouth. Something, something…..tight…..gnat’s chuff…..really good, something.
An unfashionable view now, not least as their day of hey is far behind, but as almost the Island records (UK) house rhythm section in the 70s, Mattacks/Pegg were hard to beat.
The Barrett brothers. The foundation of Bob Marley’s 70s sound. Phenomenal both live and in the studio. Yet v shabbily treated by the estate and Island by all accounts. Incredible rhythm section.
Too right Bart. Almost any track will be brilliant, but this from my favourite Bob Marley album “Uprising” is a splendid example.
https://youtu.be/VuAXl1LYY6o
Good one Twang. They make it seem so natural and easy, but as we know, that sort of locked-in groove is anything but.
The Barrett Brothers – Syd and Wild Willy. By god, that was a supergroup and ‘alf.
Gary makes a good case for Jansen and Karn as a cohesive and innovative section. Little Feat’s Richie Hayward and Kenny Gradney were also fairly unique in the way they combined to create that distinctive LF funk. And since I’ve mentioned the F word, you can’t ignore Edwards/Thompson (Chic, Sister Sledge), the White brothers (EW&F) or the many great funk sections of the 70s.
If you talk about the Little Feat rhythm section, you have to include Sam Clayton’s contribution along with Richie Hayward & Kenny Gradney. A 3-way team effort.
I was going to post the Feat and would certainly have included Sam – very much a three way effort.
True dat
Tony Watson and Mark Brzezezxski (or however you spell his name) from Big Country. Mock them as you wish, but those two were better than aces.
Tony Butler, shurely? Bruce Watson on geetar…
You know, I wrote it and thought “that’s wrong” and couldn’t be bothered to research it.
Does your day job involve being in charge of Donald Trump’s Twitter account, by any chance?
I saw them supporting the Skids (does it need a definite article?) with Simon Townshend, as On the Air, and before Big Country they operated as a rhythm section, I think called Rhythm for Hire.
Butler and Brzzzygzzski
My first thought, and a fine fine choice.
Me & whoever’s playing Bass😜
Hahah a
Good one Bri
Individual names escape me, but two rhythm sections that come to mind with this question are:
– The Meters
– Pentangle
The Meters – that would be George Porter Jr. on bass and the mightily monickered Zigaboo Modeliste on the drums.
The other is the venerable Danny Thompson on string bass and Terry Cox on drums. Good call.
Sgt. Floyd Pepper (bass) and Animal (drums) in Dr. Teeth and The Electric Mayhem (i.e. the Muppet Show band).
Greatly underrated.
There’s some terrible stories about Animal on the internet. I read somewhere that he had once fallen asleep drunk on the bus to Sesame Street once and wet himself. He then forced poor Beaker to swap seats.
It was a story on somebody’s Facebook feed so it must be true.
Well, it doesn’t surprise me that Animal has been a little … wayward at times.
Most likely not a popular choice round these here parts but Reni & Mani were ace.
You can criticise the production and Browny’s vocals (obvs!) on that first album but the rhythm section were/are fab.
Oh yes, good call. Totally agree.
Damn was just about to post them. Yes. The only good thing about their new material really.
Absolutely, terrific rhythm section and weedy singer!
From 3 Mustaphas 3 I give you Houzam Mustapha (kit of drums) and Sabah Habas Mustapha (bass). These may not be their real names!
After watching all of the video content of the Floyd megabox, I have to nominate Waters & Mason (not something I would have thought I’d ever do). On some of the extended workouts they lock together very effectively, especially Echoes from Pompeii.
They do indeed. How Dave thinks that frilly Guy Pratt fits the replacement bill is beyond me.
If you look closely at that footage from Pompeii, there’s a rather crude edit to the mid-section during a fill by Nick Mason, basically because he fluffs it. But granted, they were a decent section for a while there.
Also, how can we have got this far in the thread without mentioning The Fabs? Or The Stones?
See below. Macca and Bongo not bad too.
That would be Charlie & Keef – the axis of evil groove.
Michael Henderson & Al Foster with Miles Davis’ ’72 – ’74 electric band.
Also Dave Holland & Jack DeJohnette in the earlier incarnation.
A friend of mine was in the fortunate position of being able to employ Messrs. Thomas and Thomas out of The Attractions to play on his album and reckons that seeing them up close at work is one of the best experiences he’s ever had. The Brzezicki brothers failed the audition, incidentally.
Another vote for Bernard Edwards and Tony Thompson of Chic. Also, no mention of Duck Dunn & Al Jackson Jr?
Was going to nominate Dunn and Jackson, just for My Sweet Potato. They just create dynamism here
Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDkDiC0BxGQ
…tumbleweed
I always had Rourke down as lead-bass / melody, like Hooky’s role in NO.
If we’re talking Jazz then Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones were the go-to guys for Blue Note’s hard bop era. And mighty fine they were too
It’s a while ago I know, but
Squire/Bruford (Mk 1 Yes)
Lake/Giles (Mk 1 King Crimson)
Jamerson/A.N.Other (Motown)
Rainey/Purdie (Babylon Sisters)
Entwhistle/Moon (the ‘oo)
Why? Great bass ‘n’ drums sections find room for themselves within the music but also lock together to drive it forward. And great bass players play tunes.
Rhythm section for heaven’s band
Jamerson/Bruford !
With James Jamerson we really need Benny Benjamin!
Dead right. Great bass players simultaneously enhance and drive the groove, and also underpin the harmony. Which is why it’s so hard to play bass (see recent guitarcast…). Lead guitarists are invariably hopeless bass players. Probably a good time to post this.
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i449/charlieboy14/dJSDK4q_zpsingcgfkt.jpg
“Lead guitarists are invariably hopeless bass players”.
Usually invariably. However, a notable exception was Pete Townshend (any reason to post this nugget)
https://youtu.be/k8zmkzshUvE
Find a more hifi source than this clip to hear the bassline better.
Wyman and Watts. Why? Because they “swung”. Could also do funk, blues, soul, straight rock and pretty much everything else you threw at them. Keith Richards a great bass player too.
How about The Blockheads?
Chaz Jankel, Norman Watt-Roy, Charlie Charles et al — Norman’s bass line on Hit Me … glorious… 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-T9pMqzHf4
Mike Mills and Bill Berry? Mills had a great melodic sense to his playing, and the band were never the same once Berry left.
Agreed and likewise with Crowded House. Paul Hester was a great drummer and the latest CH incarnation has lost that spark without him. Nick Seymour is still one of my favourite bass players.
Dee Murray (R.I.P.) and Nigel Olsson. True greats, natural musicians.
True dat. Seemingly effortless and almost unnoticeable because it’s just so right for the music
Oh go on then
Steve Adler and Duff McKagan.
All these comments, and no mention of Sparko and The Big Figure. Not only tight as 30″ waist trousers on a 50″ body, but a real sense of menace as well. The Feelgoods were never quite the same after Figure retired (although they were still bloody good as long as Lee was there). The only band where 3/4 of the members changed their stage name to avoid confusion when somebody asked for John…
Also, Norman Watt-Roy with anybody. Fantastic with the late Charley Charles in the Blockheads, but also many years sterling service behind Wilko.
Good point.
Norman was also brilliant in conjunction with Steve Howe with Wilko.
Do you mean Dylan Howe perchance?
Doh ! Wrist duly slapped.
I will, of course, do the decent thing and leave by the tradesman’s entrance.
No wrist slapping intended @Dodger Lane. Easily done.
The Blockheads and The Smiths have had a mention so for me it’s always Buckler and Foxton. More to The Jam than Mr Weller you know….. At this point I have to recommend The Jam Society on Facebook, favourite, thing, ever.
One of the main reasons The Jam were so brilliant at their peak was down to the tight and melodic back end of the horse. Bruce was a great bass payer and his leaps were an integral part of the Jam’s image.
Simon Kirke and Andy Fraser.
With Andy so forward in the mix Simon had to lay down a rock steady beat, but together they swung so freely (no pun intended).
After Free neither hit the same heights again;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qK8O3UoqN8&list=RD3qK8O3UoqN8
*stops scrolling down*
Aha! There they are! Seconded.
You’d have to have Bonham/Jones. anchoring Zep’s bottom end in those monster riffs. And WTF, the Purps had two great rhythm sections, hard rock supreme with Roger Glover and Ian Paice, and later with Glenn Hughes and Paicey.
Actually I always thought REM’s rhythm section was very good. Great bass player, Mike Mills.
Agreed re Glover. Highway Star anyone? Slightly harder to concentrate on Hughes with all that Godawful wailing going on. Paice and Murray a solid, unflashy combo in (acceptable era) Whitesnake.
Oh I like Mk3 and indeed Mk4. Dare I say I prefer Coverdale’s voice…. This is awesome for the rhythm section though…
Me too really, just a shame to have la Hughes and his vocal calisthenics spewing all over the MkIII/IV live recordings.
Entwhistle and Moon
Ah, but … were they a “section”?
Lead Bass and Lead Drums.
Locked to each other, but tendancy to go off and do their own thing.
Smack on beat, but probably not perceived as “traditionally solid”
Sublime on Live at Leeds. It’s Pete’s timing that’s slightly wayward. As you say, locked in and rock solid. The extended section of My Generation is textbook locked-in rhythm section, allowing Townsend the freedom to try out just about any riff or jam that comes to mind.
I considered another twosome who could perhaps fall into this category, Hook and Morris.
Seconded. Morris is the most machine machine-like drummer I’ve ever seen.
I had thought of Entwistle and Moon, but as Rigid says, I don’t think they could be considered a tight section with Moon being such an instinctive player. If Entwistle hadn’t been such a musical genius, the whole thing would have fallen apart. To see The Who now, it’s extraordinary to look at the on-stage anarchy and Entwistle standing there with his extraordinary fingers and musical control. I think there is an isolated bass track on Baba O’Riley on The Kids are Alright DVD which is amazing to listen to.
Also, Moon played off Townshend as much as he did off The Ox. Entwistle held it all together while the other two went crazy.
Jet Black and JJ Burnel
Solid, thumping and a real sense of menace.
Add Dave Greenfields organ and Hugh Cornwells snarly vocal, and there is the signature sound
Topper Headon and Paul Simonon.
Topper holds it all together allowing Paul to learn on the job.
Macca/Ringo.
Edwards/Thompson.
Fraser/Kirke.
Danko/Helm.
Pattinson/De Freitas?
Butler/Ward
Moulding/Chambers
Williams/Rudd
Yes to all of those, especially the Accadacca boys (puts on Powerage, the UK vinly version is best)
Mike Howlett and Pierre Moerlen with Gong.
John Wetton and Bill Bruford with King Crimson MK3.
Bill McCormick and Simon Phillips with 801 (though they only ever played 3 gigs).
Jimmy Garrison & Elvin Jones with John Coltrane.
Good choices Mike. Still love Angel’s Egg and Fish Rising.
I was wondering if we were allowed jazzers – Jones and Garrison were immense with Coltrane. Also Williams and Carter with the Miles quintet. Pastorius and Erskine, Stanley Clarke and Lenny White, Cobham and Sklar on Stratus, Steve Rodby and Paul Wertico with the Pat Metheny Group…
And of the groove merchants, honourable mention to Steve Gadd and Tony Levin (or anyone else) and the same goes for Jeff Porcaro (Abe Laboriel, Louis Johnson, Mike Porcaro).
Jazzers. Here’s Charlie Haden on bass and Jack DeJohnette on drums (mainly Jack!):
And if we’re in jazz territory, then we really need William Parker and Hamid Drake, too:
Joey Spampinato & Tom Ardolino.. NRBQ
There’s a lot of loud, and a lot of tight, and a lot of groove in the splendid choices above, but for swing it’s hard to beat Ron Carter and Ray Lucas – they played together a lot , but Compared to What, from Roberta Flack’s First Take album is bloody astonishing. The shift in gears as the track progresses are peerless.
Ok – get ready to laugh. Ready?
Randy Meisner and Don Henley. Country tight/ Rock loose.
The latter not a bad singer either. Playing bass and singing lead is hard. Playing drums and singing? Forgeddaboudidd.
Eagles
One Of These Nights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL4EjW93Jzk
Randy could sing, too! Although, he does so on a song with very little drumming.
https://youtu.be/0HYiaYyfp8Q
Famously, his singing, or his refusal to do so live, led to violence and the band’s break up.
Is this the right place to discuss Ned’s Atomic Dustbin?
The other two from Ride were on top form on the recent reunion. Loz Colbert especially is one of the best drummers to have come out of the late 80s scene.
I love and loved that. Dreams Burn Down sounds like it’s being played by Treebeard from Lord of the Rings.
How Andy Bell could end up in in bands as stultifyingly dull as Oasis and Beady Eye baffles me. It would be like Robert Fripp going to ground in 1972 and then later on turning up in Chris De Burgh’s backing band.
Leave Chris alone! Happened to catch him talking on breakfast TV just yesterday (before 7.00). He’s seriously BIG IN GERMANY you know. Anyway, very pleasant chap indeed, open, unprepossessing, and that early. Keef he ain’t.
Well, okay, Lady In Red will curl anyone’s toes.
@Moose the Mooche
Well, my faves are probably Entwistle and Moon but I am very surprised that no-one has mentioned Bill Kreutzman and Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead.
Also a word for Billy Talbot and Ralph Mollina of Crazy Horse. These two have a rep for making occasional mistakes, but, frankly, following Neil Young on a deranged feedback binge must be hugely difficult. These boys swing.
“I am very surprised that no-one has mentioned Bill Kreutzman and Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead.”
Well, I was going to mention Billy and Phil, but I thought I might’ve been accused of being a bit predictable, as I’m generally known on the Afterword as an incorrigible Deadhead. And with good reason, I suppose.
Has to be The Funk Brothers with my all time favourite bass player James Jamerson.
They were tighter than a coat of Dulux gloss.
Played on almost every massive Motown hit of the 60’s.
Absolutely. I was just listening to Ain’t Nothing Like The Real Thing and noticed how amazing the bass line was. Looked it up and it was James Jamerson…
My personal favourites went a while back there (Mani and Reni) but of those not mentioned…
Donald Dunn and Willie Hall (The MG’s)
Quaife and Avory (there’s a lot going on behind those words)
And back in the days when they were good, Forbes and McGee (Love Song, Theme From Great Cities etc)
Good call on the MG’s, SixDog.
One could have Duck Dunn and Al Jackson Jr, too.
Can I mention Stu Cook and Doug Clifford from Creedence Clearwater Revival?
Yes, they were jealous of John Fogerty, yes they forced Fogerty to record their lousy songs on Mardi Gras, yes they tipped Saul Zantz to sue Fogerty for plagiarising his own song. But what a groove…
Bryan and Scott Devendorf of the National are brilliant. Bryan is such an inventive drummer, knowing when to weave intricate patterns and when to kick it.