Just watching bits of Glastonbury footage and reading recommendations and reviews on the thread I’m left feeling really optimistic about the future of mainstream music. Lots of appreciation for the old guard – veterans like The Chemical Brothers and The Cure, the Poptastic likes of Kylie and Mylie and overwhelmingly positive reviews of the likes of Stormzy, Janelle, Christine and plenty of other weirder stuff like The Comet is Coming. Not that long ago the music industry were fretting over who would take the place of established (mostly white, indie or classic rock guitar bands) and fill stadiums in the future- I really don’t think they need to worry about that now since we have clearly have tons of artists playing Grime, Pop, R&B, Jazz, Indie, rock, folk etc who can clearly mak show and get kids jumping and singing every word. Personally I’ll carry own ploughing my own music furrow – but watching Glastonbury suggests the future is in good hands, the appetite for live music is huge and it’s diversified massively and I applaud Emily Eavis & co for trying to capture that in a weekend.
Glastonbury Debrief
Oh…and Dancers – modern pop involves Dancers and choreography – check this out:
Agreed. Rock is dead or at least looking peaky bruh 😉
Very derivative – a white Michael Jackson.
I thought the line up was very disappointing – I agree current music is exciting but it wasn’t on show at Glastonbury in any significant way.
Unless you think that Kylie and JJ are cutting edge.
If you mean Dave, are you aware that he’s the black guy and the crowd member the white guy? Aside from that it doesn’t sound remotely like Michael Jacskson to my ears.
Besides which, post mid-80s isn’t “white Michael Jackson” tautologous?
By Dangerous he was the whitest man who’s ever lived. I’d say “poor lad” but on recent evidence he was something of a shitehawk.
No I meant Christine and the Queens – He was white in the video I saw and very much MJ influenced.
As down below I dont want meat and potatoes either and agree there is exciting music coming through, I just didnt see it on evidence at Glasto.
Gotcha.
Wait, what? He??
I really think there is a whole lot more to Christine and the Queens than that – her records are distinctively her own, as is her style and stage presence. Chaleur Humaine in particular was one of my records of the year when it came out and still sounds great. I agree entirely with the good Doctor. There wasn’t a whole lot that I saw that is my core music, but there was tons which was clearly exciting, imaginative and genuinely felt – Like Stormzy, Christine, Janelle and no doubt many more – music which means as much to many people as the stuff I have carried with me means to me. And as well as being musically strong, the sense of performance, the stagecraft, and the sheer attitude of people like Stormzy and the peerless Janelle Monae was quite something to behold.
I was talking about Mainstream, festival headlining, Arena filling music though. As Tiggs says I leave the business of actually listening to a lot of this stuff to The Kids…and that’s how it should be.
Out of interest @SteveT, who would you have added to the line up?
Definitely Oh Sees they would have tore the place up.
Dont get me wrong commercially I can see what they are doing but if you work on basis that they are going to sell out anyway why bother with Miley, Kylie and Janet Jackson. This isnt being misogynistic they are just all crap.
If you want a female artist who would get the place buzzing then Grace Jones is the one.
Grace would be a perfect ‘legend’.
Emmylou would slay Glasto. But she’ll never get that spot because she’s not famous enough in the UK. Shame.
Yeah I was going to post Emmylou. With Dolly and Linda Ronstadt would work if it wasn’t for Linda’s health.
You could also go for Diana Ross who is better than those that were there. Or Stevie Wonder who would be phenomenal.
But the pint of the Sunday afternoon ‘legend’ slot is that it is meant to celebrate something cheesy – Kylie, Dolly, Kenny Rogers and so on. Indeed, didn’t it used to be called ‘the Rolf Harris slot before the narrative changed and those words took on an altogether less wholesome meaning? Emmylou wouldn’t match that place on the the bill, though I do adore her.
Not sure about the ‘cheesy’ bit; that spot has also had Paul Simon and Leonard Cohen, critical darlings both. I’d suggest longevity and – heaven forfend – mass popularity are the criteria.
And, about 25 years ago, Johnny Cash. He was ace.
The Man In Black’s set is currently on 6Music iPlayer Sounds thingy.
I think it started out a bit of a wink at the audience e.g. Rolf, but it became clear that this slot was really drawing crowds and it evolved into a “singalong with a legend” with acts who were less “chicken in a basket” cabaret turns and more lifetime professionals with a solid back catalogue of cross-generational appeal who are de facto spare headliners (Kylie was fourth on the poster and her show was at least as elaborate as the top of bill acts). That’s why – now the cheesy smell has somewhat lifted – I’d like to see someone like The Human League do it..
@sewer-robot
The Human League sounds like a good call. Maybe not cheesy enough?
I thought the previous post had just debunked the ‘cheesy’ connotation?
Dolly Parton, Kylie Minogue, Barry Gibb Neil Diamond, Shirley Bassey and on and on suggest the rumour may persist however. Nothing wrong with any of these, and from the sofa they can provide the best entertainment of the weekend, but the emphasis is on entertainment even if, like Gibb for instance, their contribution to popular music is huge.
Where’s Lionel Blair when the nation needs him?
What better for Glasto than a row of tents?
Glastonbury’s USP is that they try and cover as many musical bases as possible and that includes Pop with a capital P -and people that go are well into it – Pyramid Stage field was absolutely rammed for Kylie and Mylie (less so for Jackson to be fair). It’s got a reputation now for getting megastar headliners and camp pop legends to do a turn, but it also devotes a heck of lot to Dance music, Grime, Hip Hop, World Music, Jazz etc – Obviously the huge acts are the ones that’ll be on TV even though there’s more stages and tents than some festivals have acts.
Thee Oh Sees I’m sure could play (surprised they haven’t) but c’mon 5pm on the John Peel stage at best? Fontaines DC were good – you might like if Oh Sees is yr bag though?
Will check them out @Dr-Volume – just occurred to me Lady GaGa would be perfect headliner. Great star quality and would get crowd going.
I agree with the OP and didn’t even watch it. But I know the acts. Christine, and Billie Eilish are examples of the best of the new, The Cure the best of the old who are still vital. New rock has been in decline for years. Young, new, often female, pop has been on the rise for years. It seems clear to me and I embrace it. Who needs more meat and potatoes landfill indie?
If Christine and the Queens is the best of the new I think we have cause for concern.
The only new act I watched was Jorja Smith and clearly an Amy Winehouse wannabe.
I repeat the new at Glastonbury is not the new that excites me although sadly missed The Comet is coming who are very exciting.
Still on the iPlayer for another 28 days Steve: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p07d62jt/glastonbury-the-comet-is-coming-live-at-glastonbury
Thanks mini I will catch up 9n them – I also hear Cat Power was great.
Haven’t seen her yet, but if you like the Comets, you’ll probably like the related act Sons Of Kemet, also on the iPlayer.
If you’ve time, have a swift look at Afro-funksters GCUC – I think they might be adjacent to your street…
Seconded.
Amazing what can be done with a bass, two bass drums, congas, a cowbell and a vuvuzela.
Whatever it is, I hope it results in the total and utter destruction of the vuvuzela.
My partner went to Glastonbury, as she has done many times.
She saw ‘Puppetry Of The Penis’, who had a special guest; a woman who was able to play a wind instrument by pushing air out through it when placed into her – errr – ‘vuvuzela’.
Perhaps she could give Van Morrison a few tips for the occasions that he sticks his harmonica down the back of his trousers? I’m sure the Glastonbury public would be keen to hear a delightful harmonic solo on “Summertime in England” played by Van the Man’s bottom.
Ooh, will do. Any didgeridoo?
Edit: I can’t find a single thing about them. Anywhere. Have I missed some sort of joke?
Sewer’s made either hilarious play on words, or a typo: that should be BCUC and they played on Friday afternoon.
No didg, though.
Not being a Git: genuine typo, soz!
GCUC is merely the worrying noise my kitchen sink is making these days.
I went up to The Park to see Michael Kiwanuka (large crowd) and then Cat Power (much smaller crowd – everyone presumably watching Stormzy). Cat Power was quite dull and I bailed out before the end as she just wasn’t doing it for me. I wasn’t the only one who walked away either.
You can be concerned if you want; lots of us like her. And regarding your earlier comment – ‘cutting edge’ be damned, Kylie was signed up for the’Legends’ slot, and attracted and royally entertained probably the largest audience of the weekend.
Dont mean she is any good. As an entertainer perhaps. As a musician? No chance.
Yup. Mrs Ainsley loved her, I thought she was very average. Voice generally didnt hold up and the “show” business just wasnt that great.
I really wanted to enjoy it in that “legends” sort of way but sadly just not special.
Billie Eilish, on the other hand, with just herself a keyboard player and a drummer, was fantastic.
Why sneer at Kylie being an ‘entertainer’? I’d rather watch her or similar than some old fart that is a brilliant musician but is still churning out the same stuff since the 70s. There’s enough of them, Kylie put on a show and entertained millions.
There’s enough ‘I’ve suffered for my art, now it’s your turn’ out there.
Exactly. I’d rather watch the likes of Kylie or Robbie Williams entertain a crowd of thousands than four blokes standing still, looking like they’d rather be somewhere else, no matter how proficient they are on their chosen instrument.
Wow. I regularly go to gigs where the artist is some old fart – who was a brilliant musician – churning out the same stuff since the 1870s. Does that mean I’m not being entertained? Jeeze, I had no idea.
1870s? It means you’re watching a tribute act and should demand your money back.
I’ve sure you are entertained, it’s the automatic assumption the bloke with guitar good, and a proper musician, female pop singer bad and knows nothing.
This is it precisely: Guardian below the line music snobbery writ large.
I agree with your observation about the snobbery and prejudice at play, but I’d also point out that it’s your post which deliberately uses the particular descriptive phrase “is a brilliant musician” as the subordinate clause with which to distinguish between an entertainer and some old fart. In other words, you are implying fault by projecting that generic, prejudiced distinction upon someone’s stated opinion about a specific individual; logically something of a non-sequitur.
/Rees Mogg mode
Indeed. I took hols to coincide with a Glasto binge and, in excited anticipation, watched Yertube videos on Thursday – almost all geezer guitar bands: classic Bunnymen, Suede, Manics ‘94 etc – precisely because I knew, over the next three days, there would be nothing of that type that would move me.
Have to concur with this. I thought the pickings were slim at first, having only watched Sheryl Crow, but although it doesn’t all appeal directly to me and I’m definitely not in the target demographic for some of it, most of the performances I’ve seen were top notch from both lead artists and backing musicians. Never underestimate the potency of cheap music, particularly when it comes to playing the hits.
Highlights so far: Sheryl, The Cure, Pale Waves, Billie Eilish and Sigrid. Still to properly catch up on Miley Cyrus and Foals, and maybe see what all the Lizzo fuss is about.
Also, you’d need a heart of stone not to be moved by this young lass watching Sigrid:
Yes, knowing there’s someone young out there who is moved that much by music makes me feel a little more hopeful for the future of the world.
Is she aware of the Afterword, do we know?
Thanks Ishme. What a wonderful story of pop music magic.
I saw Sigrid at Roskilde a couple of years ago and she was wonderful
Even an old curmudgeon like me.
She is, which is why she doesn’t post here
Sat down with a big bowl of onion rings, a huge jug of Pimms, boiled new pots with butter & mint, and a splendid summer salad. Box on, volume up, iPlayer engaged, Stormzy to watch; all the reviews seemed to hail his performance as something extraordinary to experience.
Lasted about 8 minutes before concluding that I preferred listening to music. Swapped over to Miley and got an hour of proper tunes, a cracking tight band and a great festival performance.
We watched his whole set with more admiration than enjoyment. You and I are getting on a bit Foxy, and it’s not for us any more. I can’t put it any better than @tiggerlion on the main Glasto thread.
Have to go along with you VV. As a man in my …. let’s go with prime… some of it is just over the line where a tune becomes just a riff. Bonkers energy levels though, and doing most of it on his own. The man is clearly born for the stage.
Well, yes, but if the lyrics are so interesting, why the flip can’t I make out a word of them?
Don’t say it’s my aged ears, it isn’t, really. It’s his (he’s not alone in this) flurry of rhyming lines delivered at three times the speed of sound in a relentless stream with no attempt to change the delivery diction from a normal speaking voice to something designed to let the listener make the words out. He was lucky to get eight whole minutes of my oxygen time.
Even Bobby Z, in his finest snarling nasal glory, throwing flash cards to the floor with hurried abandon, is utterly comprehensible in comparison.
I WANT to hear what he has to say, but I CAN’T HEAR WHAT HE’S SAYING. Gimme a gatefold with a lyric sheet and maybe I’ll cut him even more slack, but I am not a young urban person with an ear for his lingo, innit, so he’s lost me altogether. I’m sure he’s upset about that, of course.
I take it you were never a fan of The Clash either?
Or The Stones? Have you tried listening to Exile On Main Street to make a note of the words?
Meethheeerr goolaaawww shyalyonewwwwww
Don’t recall hearing Joe or Mick shouting “lines delivered at three times the speed of sound in a relentless stream with no attempt to change the delivery diction from a normal speaking voice”.
True. But they frequently missed out a load of consonants. 😉
Lahndarns Bearrr! Dal nahnahnahnahhh!
Why, it’s like listening to Noel Coward!
Dunno ’bout your copy, but mine’s got a full libretto on the inner sleeves.
I always feel annoyed on other people’s behalf when the inevitable ‘girl-hoisted-on-shoulders’ shot belches its way into view. The person behind you can’t see!
But the person underneath where does he go? Does he slide by the wayside? Or does he just die?
I’m usually impressed they can hold someone up at all. I doubt I could keep a three year old aloft for a couple of songs (based on my kids at least), let alone anyone I’ve ever dated.
Heck yes I quite agree with the OP. It seems that there’s a huge array of new talent out there in various genres. Personally I stepped off the bus a long time ago and rarely venture beyond 1978 but that’s just me. If Glastonbury this year taught me anything it’s that it is eminently possible to admire and applaud new music without being affected by it in any way.
Of course to debrief at, or indeed after, Glastonbury is not necessarily a happy affair. Not at all.
Wasn’t like that in my day..
We didn’t (sorry, can’t keep a straight face, overwhelmed by my own comic genius) WE DIDN’T WEAR CLOTHES!!!
🙄 Oh Mum, you’re totes embarrassing, but, as long as you do my laundry, I’ll love you anyway…
As for us not being the target audience for much of this music, well no but one’s own opinion is still valid. I mean all my life I’ve not been the target audience for records I’ve loved, you know, black music, pop for teenage girls, although I was obviously once closer to the right age. I was the target audience for The Smiths in 1986 say, but in many ways it’s nicer not to be the target audience, to feel as you think for yourself and are more than an accurately targeted consumer. Something like Stormzy is harder to take because it is more the cutting edge and the cutting edge should rub us up the wrong way, or cut us perhaps. Other new stuff where older influences take charge are clearly going to appeal more to us oldies. Great pop is great pop. I agree with Heppo I think, that it is all just pop. I find it better that way. Who cares if it’s rock or not.
🙂 When I say, “definitely not in the target demographic”, I’m kind of apologising to my own children for ‘stealing’ Billie Eilish from them. (I was playing her last night in the kitchen and it summoned the 14 year old within minutes: “Dad, is that…??!”) I mean, it’s music by and for consciously weird teenage girls – but oh, the CHOONS! Glorious. As you say, great pop is always Great, Pop. We’re having a singalong to “I wanna, I wanna, I wanna end me” tonight.
I’m not quite ready to invest any effort in enjoying Stormzy (all power to the guy tho) and I wouldn’t want to live in Eilish/Sigrid land all the time but it’s fun to visit.
I should moderate what I said about cutting edge. I don’t know what is cutting edge now, or what is innovative. I could probably give examples from the sixties, seventies, eighties or nineties. Your grasp on that diminishes as you age, as the years and decades race by. Inevitably you lose touch. Grime has been around for a good while now, as an established style. What is innovative and cutting edge right now? Not sure. Things are now much more amalgams of earlier influences anyway it would seem. Inevitably if you are in your 50s or 60s you have a fairly limited idea of where it’s at.
What is the target audience for Glastonbury supposed to be? Judging by the line-up, I’d guess it’s pretty much anyone who has an interest in music. I’ve no interest in going to a festival, because I’d only be interested in seeing 5% of the acts on show. Somebody, somewhere else will only be interested in seeing another 5% of the available acts.
So far, the only act I’ve seen on iPlayer so far is Kylie. For no other reason that I wanted to be entertainted.
If you actually do go, you only ever get to see 5% of the acts.
The stages are each up to an hour’s walk from one another. And there are numerous stages, each of them busy at all hours.
Seeing more than half a dozen acts in a day is an act of endurance interrupted by moving, eating, drinking, soaking up the atmosphere, toileting, sleeping, etc.
@fentonsteve exactly right I have been to SXSW 3 times and even though venues are in walking distance of each other I doubt whether I have seen more than 10 acts per day over a 5 day period. Bear in mind there are an average of 2000 artists per SXSW it is only a miniscule amount you get to see. I can tell you though it is much more innovative than Glastonbury. That’s fine ad long as Glastonbury parades as a festival of fun which ih fairness is what it is doing.
I’ve not been there, sounds like a nice holiday. Genuine question – when you say “innovative” do they feature the equivalent of Stormzy there? I had the impression it is sort of Americana based acts?
Not just Americana MC. SXSW covers all genres. For example, Anderson Paak and Chance The Rapper seem to have broken after good appearances in Austin.
Hi MC very much all genres and a multitude of artists from all over the World. The last time I was there for example there was showcase. of Japanese pop bands. Can’t see them on Pyramid stage.
I would also ask where is the target audience? How much is aimed at people I a field and how much at the iplayer brigade?
Thirty-odd years ago I was listening to Blade and Silver Bullet. I don’t think that Stormzy is much of an advance on them, except that he’s clearly better. The difference is he gets in the charts and on the main stage. The mainstream has changed.
MC Hammer did it.
All genres covered?
Have the new kids dismissed hard rock/metal?
I am sure Greta Van Fleet would go down a storm at Glastonbry.
Accidentally saw/listened to Swindle after falling asleep (nice bottle of Chablis) during The Comet Is Coming’s set on iPlayer, which impressed me a lot less than I was hoping.
Not something I would normally have chosen to watch, so a happy accident.
Swindle’s set (a young South London producer I’d never heard of doing a showcase of his stuff and the artists involved) was like a sort of Jazzy Rap/R&B Revue. Despite some technical issues I was pretty impressed by the band (drums, bass/keyboards, guitar/bass, keyboards/MC/vocodered vocals, 2 trombones, 2 trumpets and the various featured rappers, singers and a saxophonist in a great stripy suit who were introduced. It flagged slightly at a couple of points as guests failed to stimulate the West Holts crowd sufficiently, but even so the quality of the band was enough to keep me watching.
A shame that a) time was obviously very tight and the featured people only had very short spots and b) it was onstage daytime, as it would have suited evening/night a lot better.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p07d63yk/glastonbury-swindle-live-at-glastonbury
The young man who got on stage with Dave in the OP is just 16. He totally smashed it in front of tens of thousands of people. Tiago Silva, the subject of the song, wants to meet him and he has been offered a modelling contract with Boohoo. He’s in big demand for interviews, radio spots and so on.
If I was his dad, I would disapprove of the swearing and the fact he looks p*ssed. Otherwise, amazing!
This thread is quite funny.
It’s unbelievable. Young people seem to be listening to music I don’t like or understand. I don’t understand the words, and is that a boy or a girl? It’s got a good beat though. What did I come in here for?
etc
Spent the afternoon listening to The Cure’s set while working. I think i’ll Do the same again tomorrow, which has got to be a vote of confidence.
There’s always a slight risk of missing something truly AMAZING* but the way I look at it is that even now, in my fifties, I’ve only barely scratched the surface of masses of stuff from popular music’s formative and, let’s face it, best years.
Hate to put a downer on things (to be honest I don’t really) but there’s no getting away from the fact that comparing the charts of say 2015 to Nineteen-Fucking-Sixty-Five isn’t really a fair fight (and no smartarse responses of ‘yeah, 2015 was way better!’ required thanks :-))
*Actually there’s zero risk of missing anything these days, except perhaps any footage whatsoever of the acoustic stage at Glastonbury, and Nick Lowe’s headlining act in particular!
Sat with my 16-y-o Pale Waves fan and watched The Cure’s set yesterday. Even after a slow start, I could see the cogs turning – “so this is where Pale Waves got their sound/style”.
Favourite bit: Robert Smith’s “Back in 2 minutes” after an hour and a half. Yes, Bob, my bladder lasts about that long nowadays as well.
Even if The Very Beatles Themselves were somehow miraculously reincarunited for The Ultimate Best Ever Headliner At Glastonbury Ever!!!! I still would want them to do a punchy, concise set. Anyone else – half an hour. For Themselves – double that.
Brief hello to allow the adulation to die down – straight into the most toppermost of the poppermost set ever – 3 min hit after 3 min hit after 3 min hit – allowances for the briefest of brief bits of banter between them – no long monologues about how we’re really, honestly, truly living in the worst times ever and it’s only good people like us who can turn it around – off stage leaving the audience wanting incalculably more…
Now *that* would be a gig worth seeing.