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For those watching the World Cup …

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I put the opening game on in the background, more entertaining than I feared. Ecuador looked fairly decent, but Qatar were woeful. The hosts will not go far in this World Cup

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  2. Ecuador did indeed look pretty good. Against Qatar though- can they do it against Senegal and Netherlands?
    3 minutes in I was thinking Qatar had bought the World Cup. Offside, really? The pictures show a marginal yes, but there was another Qatari defender between him and the goal

  3. Valencia had a stonking World Cup back in 2014. 4 goals in the opening group if I recall. West Ham signed him for £12m and he managed 10 goals across 60+ games. He looked pretty good today given he’s now 33, a return to the Irons must be on the cards.

  4. Ecuador looked good against a poor opposition.

    Still 3 points means their next two games have meaning in terms of reaching the last 16 and will add extra fire into the players.

  5. 1,000+ human beings were killed when building the stadiums and infrastructure for the Qatari 2022 World Cup finals.

    Those human beings families have not been compensated for the loss of their loved ones.

    Yes I wondered whether I should have watched this World Cup, I thank the beings thar look over us that I decided it was a crime to do so.

    That however is my choice.

    If you do watch this besmirched spectacle please give a moments thought to those who gave their lives to enable you to do so.

    • Agreed.

      If they back down because wearing an armband might result in their being penalized, it rather defeats the object of the protest in the first place

  7. I suspect this is a true test of how strong those principles are. If they can’t stand up to a potential yellow card then the implication is that they are mere gestures. If the players go ahead then FIFA’s actions would surely be the first ever recorded instance of a physical manifestation of a suspension of disbelief.

  8. Sometimes circumstances force your hand.

    Yesterday I saw a clip of Nigel Fromage and Matt (no Euro Semi-Final, no Euro Final, no World Cup Semi-Final) Le Tissier call Gareth (one Euro Semi-Final, one Euro Final, one World Cup Semi-Final) Southgate “woke,” before both sniggering in front of the camera…

    12.15… prepare halloumi-based woke lunch.
    12.30… eat halloumi-based woke lunch.
    12.45… turn on the telly to watch woke Gareth Southgate’s woke England football team.

  11. Wonderful performance – made even sweeter with Saka (twice), Sterling and Rashford all scoring – and no bookings (always an ongoing issue in the Beckham/Rooney clown show).

    I see that the Tunisian tactic I remember from four years ago is still an option, namely rugby tackling an opponent at a corner kick and reasoning that referees (and now VAR) will hedge their bets and wave play on. It made the penalty awarded to Iran at the very end a nice comic touch in which to conclude the match.

    Thanks to Fromage for the recommendation.

        • Happy with that, could have snuck a win in the end. Liking the Welsh protest against the Qatar regime where we refused to play in the 1st half 😉 (I stole that)

          • Plucky old Wales, really don’t care if they progress or not. No need for me to watch. After all, this tournament is a disgrace and Mrs W will cast her most disapproving of looks if I do (a look that would freeze a charging lion in its tracks before it meows plaintively, “Nah, don’t fancy wildebeest today, think I’ll go lie down under that tree “) .
            I’ll just watch it for ten minutes. Half-time and USA are going to win this 3 or 4 nil. Wales haven’t turned up. Might as well watch a little more. Told you, Wales could easily win this. I could switch over and watch the Holland Senegal highlights ……
            This tournament is a disgrace, a moral and actual swamp. A swamp in a desert. Not watching any more.

  17. Belgium – like watching England pre-Southgate (which, incidentally, I wasn’t).
    Their F.A. should apologise to the rest of the world.

    I will be watching the next Canadian match.

    • Indeed. You can’t see them getting anything out of the Spain game, so it looks like 3 points max from playing Costa Rica. Japan, with a huge incentive, will surely at least draw with Costa Rica, which would give them 4.

      • The Germans normally have the coolest shirts in the tournament. Having ditched the yellow and red touches and opted for straight black and white, they’ve now got the dourest

  19. That was never a penalty. But fair play to Ghana for coming back. They could’ve scraped a draw with a bit more luck.
    Of course Ronaldo will claim that Ghana only got back into it because he wasn’t on the pitch.

  20. Wales humbled by Iran. Late goals against 10, but totally deserved. The reality for Wales is it was all about getting there. We have underperformed, but our best players appear to be well past their respective peaks

    • Wales were poor quite frankly, surprisingly so against a bang average Iran who were made to look quite good. I expected them to be far more of a threat against a team who must have been shell shocked having shipped 6 in their last game, and who played well against USA in the second half of their first game. Maybe the hype got to them a bit.

  21. Full disclosure here. I didn’t think I’d appear on this thread but my honesty demands I do. I’ve seen the England goals. Bukayo Saka by the way. Are you watching Jadon Sancho? It seems Southgate the pragmatist content to leave Grealish and Foden out may be about to prove his doubters wrong again. What does success mean for England? I think only winning it which is weird to write. Good to see England supporters dressed as Crusaders being refused entry to games. Genuine ignorance on their part or deliberate provocation? Who knows….

    I also watched the last 20 minutes of the Brazil game. This is where my overall problem with the way football has changed and in particular this tournament. The ground was half full. I knew all the Brazil players. Martin Keown being paid actual money for his opinion. Richarlison of Everton (I know he’s at Spurs now) scoring an overhead kick after mis controlling the initial pass. It was no Trevor Sinclair or Gareth Bale . Commentators desperate to invoke the spirit of Brazil past but we all know different. Micha Richards “the best atmosphere we’ve had”. Shearer desperate to call the first call out as the better one. Gilberto who it turns out is Fred’s agent adding nothing. I turned it off with a weary shrug.

    Didn’t watch a kick of either Wales game but had a chuckle at Germany’s and Argentina’s defeat. We’ve been there of course…

    It appears my issues with this World Cup are as much about the football, the familiarity of it all, the coverage, the commentary, the longing for some element of “Wow! Did you see Zico?” As opposed to ” Oh look. It’s Fred”. As much as the hosting in Qatar or the timing. Fuck you FIFA and EUFA, the Premier league and Sky for taking something rare and precious and turning it ordinary and mundane.

    Didn’t mean to piss on anyones chips who’s enjoying it and maybe I’ll join in if Englabd make the semi’s and something stirs in the 13 year old me. (Over to you Moose).

    I’ll leave you with this. Socrates on the day football died….

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63568753

    • I feel exactly the same about Strictly and I’m A Celebrity. They are sooooo repetitive. On Strictly, even the judges parrot the same lines every year. At least, Bruce was able to go off script. And those Jungle tasks are boring, no jeopardy and no variation. I’m sick of the sight of Ant and Dec, too.

      I haven’t watched either, apart from the odd glimpse, for years. Time they were binned, along with FIFA.

    • Well… always under-rated and always difficult opponents, it was important not to lose, though the team did look as if they were wading through custard at times.

      Maguire, Stones and Pickford have looked excellent.
      Bookings for the tournament stand at zero.
      Kane’s injury, which would have taken up 20 pages in every tabloid fifteen years ago, was dealt with in a calm deadpan way by Southgate and was barely mentioned in the match commentary.

      Aims? Keep fit, top group, don’t lose discipline, neither over celebrate nor declare it a disaster, avoid all tabloid coverage/sleb culture – I’d say it’s the polar opposite of 2002, 2006, 2010 and 2014.
      This team could win the tournament.

      • @deramdaze

        While GS has done amazing things in 2018 and again in 2021, Engurland’s big problem is he never seems to have a Plan B when one is required.

        France – GS et al’s likely QF opponent’s – looking very good at the moment.
        Mbappe is going to be way too fast for Stones and McGuire

          • Bringing along a crocked player or two is something of an England tradition.

            Who can forget a plainly not match-fit Beckham jumping out of a tackle on the touchline leaving Brazil free to hare up the pitch and score at Japorea in 2002?

            Four years later Rooney followed in Beckham’s footsteps and buggered up his own metatarsal.

            On a more serious note KW is, like the out-of-sorts McGuire and Sterling, one of GS ‘s automatic squad selections

              • KW will start against Senegal and play a lot more minutes.

                Henderson in as an extra pivot enabled Bellingham to roam free. I doubt Mount will start another game. Ideally, he’d like Phillips instead of Henderson, mainly for his speed of recovery. The worry is the left side of defence. Shaw isn’t what he was & linked with Maguire their collective lack of pace is a real problem. Trippier on the left is more solid a defender but less potent in attack on the wrong foot.

  25. Gareth Baled.

    Good, confidence-boosting result for England against a very poor Welsh team.
    The half-time switch of the forward line was an unusually astute tactile change by GS

    Should easily beat Senegal in the last 16, after which tougher challenges and decisions await

    • Wales playing with 9 men this tournament. I never expected too much from the team this tournament, but the manager should have the guts to make big selection decisions and change overall tactics. However our bench is not packed with game changers Disappointing, but nice to be there even if it was Qatar. Good luck to England

    • I support the two teams of my two home countries: England and Sweden. Sweden, of course, did not even get to Qatar after losing away in lowly Georgia in the qualification.

      So that leaves England.
      We’ve got Senegal on Sunday evening, in the round of 16.

      The last time one of my home countries (Sweden) got Senegal in the World Cup round of 16 was in 2002. This was what happened then. It was when the “golden goal” was enforced. When Senegal scored to make it 2-1 in extra time, it was such a stinker. It was automatically the end of the match. We couldn’t even restart. Bummer. Major bummer.

  26. While it’s always a bit shitty when your home nations – like you, i’ve got dual nationality – don’t get to the finals, the need to advance on merit at least makes the qualifying rounds meaningful.

    With the finals being expanded to 48 nations in 2024, they’ve further cheapened the whole thing.

    Wonder how long it’ll be before FIFA gives the “big” nations a free pass and follow through on their crackpot idea to hold the WC every two years

    • I have 4 in this tournament more or less:

      Wales
      England (mother’s side)
      Switzerland (lived there for 15 years)
      Canada (Lived here for about 17 years and I have a Canadian passport)

      I sort of support England in big tournaments, but am generally still tired of 1966 being brought up whenever they play in one, so I kind of hope they do well, without winning the thing

  27. Wow … Belgium.
    Six players in the squad with over 100 caps, another couple on the verge of 100 caps, and a whole bunch on 50/60.

    Strewth… it’s Beckham’s England!!! I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

    • The 100 cap milestone. Billy Wight, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton and Peter Shilton got 100 caps with no (or few) meaningless friendlies and no substitutes (or 1 sub in Shilts case).
      Caps awarded now if you get 3 minutes on the pitch from11 substitutes options.
      Not quite the milestone it once was

  28. Second time in the tournament Germany have been speechless

    Watched it in a packed Dublin pub before going to see Grant Lee Phillips (excellent as always). Much hilarity ensued when they showed how much of the ball was in play for Japan’s winning goal

  31. If they achieve nothing else, gaining a first ever overseas win against one of the big five nations in the knockout stages of a WC would be a huge plus

  33. Squeaky Argentinian bum time. If you know an Argentinian, tell ’em to buy a lottery ticket.

    I found myself just looking at Messi for long periods and it was remarkable how he was allowed space so readily, often by just standing still.

    Can’t help feeling that if you stick a player on him for the duration – as in, the WHOLE time with not a cigarette paper between said marker and Messi – Argentina may acquire more the look of Bradford City… and I don’t trust that keeper much.

  36. Delighted to see the Qatar authorities accusing the BBC of “racism” and in a total huff because our Gary wouldn’t agree to a meeting where they could “put their side of case” to him. It seems GL’s offer of an on camera discussion hasn’t yet been taken up.

  38. I enjoyed the commentator saying “This is the ONLY time England have scored THREE goals in the Round of 16 stage of the World Cup!” (pause) “APART FROM when they played Paraguay in 1986 …(another pause) and Denmark in 2002”

    I thought this was similar to the Welsh game. First half hour was England strolling around passing the ball square in their own half – trying to goad the opposing “bus” into vacating its parking space. And then before half time…running at them and scoring goals. Second half delivered another goal but it could have been three.

    The good thing about this England side is that the goals have been shared across many players, whereas France seem to rely heavily on Mbappe. Let’s hope he has a bad day when we get to the Quarter Final.

  44. Surely the lottery element lies in the manager’s coice of players to take the kicks.

    Southgate’s disastrous decision to use Saka, Rashford and Sancho in the shoot out at the end of last year’s Euro 2020 final springs to mind

    • @Black-Celebration

      Given that everyone will be watching young Ramos, doubt anyone would notice if he did.

      Assuming both sides get through, Eng Vs Portugal in the semis promises to be a cracking match.

      Cue commentators droning on about how “every game is a final now, Clive”, and “It’s a repeat of 1966 with Ramos as Eusebio and Kane as Bobby Charlton!”

      • You really think Harry Maguire is going to stop Mbappé, Dembelé and Griezmann in their tracks? Now that’s what I call faith. I’m confident that the semis will be Argentina-Brazil and France-Portugal, and my predictions are infallible. That’s why I’ve been barred by Bet365, having cleaned out the company to the point of near bankruptcy. Possibly.

  46. Knowing the French will make no effort to turn them back, Gs’s masterplan for beating the French involves sending the lads up the pitch in a flotilla of small rubber dinghies

  47. As a bit of a side-bar, the tournament has had very little crowd trouble. I think the no-alcohol factor has played a very large part in this.

    We have protected the rights of violent men for decades by enabling them to get shitfaced at football matches – as if the squalor and menace that follows on from this is a noble tradition that must be upheld.

    In Qatar that aspect is taken away and it appears that everyone is nicer to each other. Who knew?

    • When you consider that you can walk round all the stadiums in a single day, they are so close together, and that everyone congregates together all the time, this is truly remarkable.

      Demon drink, indeed. Should be banned at every World Cup?

      • Just cos the fuckers ban alcohol doesn’t make this World Cup any more acceptable. Thousands of deaths, squillions of dollars all bankrolled by a ‘government’ so corrupt it’s laughable.
        On the other hand….. cos of my knee operation I’ve watched more of this WC since, probably, 1966. I do hope England France is a cracker. My neighbour’s house is lit up red, white and blue all day and night long. Can’t see the front door for French flags. Love the World cup, we do.

          • Given that their country’s GDP grew so quickly and impressively for so long, Xi and his cronies are now in serious shtook because their economy is no longer expandng anywhere near as fast.

            Ironically, the TV pictures of mask-free crowds watching the footie in Qatar are also causing Xi and his ChiNazi Party mates real problems in enforcing their absurd lockdown-driven zero-COVID policy

            Matthew Syed wrote a very good piece about the latter issue in yesterday’s Times. Can\t post here as it’s paywalled, but will happily forward a copy to anyone who would like to read it

            • Paywall schmaywall:
              “Football is going to bring down the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). I know this claim may sound a tad extravagant given that the party has been in power for decades and retains an iron grip on the nation, but it has been remarkable to see people on the streets shouting: “Down with the Communist Party” and “Down with Xi Jinping”. And what is perhaps even more remarkable is the explanation permeating sections of Chinese social media. They are calling it “the World Cup effect”.
              And I happen to think that this explanation is not only plausible but says a great deal about football and the effect it has on people. You see, the rigorous lockdowns in China (a quarter of the nation is still under severe restraints), did not, on their own, bring people on to the streets in protest. And neither did the dawning sense that these restrictions have little to do with public health and much more to do with a premier too stubborn to admit his “zero Covid” policy is flawed.
              No, it took two additional elements. First, the tragedy of ten people dying in a burning building in Xinjiang, with rescue efforts hampered by Covid regulations. And second, crucially, the sight of thousands of people in football stands in Qatar, celebrating goals, singing and dancing, congregating in close proximity, all without masks. There is an acronym you may have heard of: fomo (fear of missing out). The uprising in China is, at least in part, due to the spontaneous realisation among half a billion football fans that life is passing them by while others are experiencing collective joy.
              For isn’t this the fundamental currency of football? Isn’t this why we switch on to watch this invented game? Isn’t this what we saw on Monday night as Brazil tap-danced their way past a South Korea side playing with a dubiously high line? I guess I wasn’t alone in jumping to my feet as Richarlison juggled the ball on his head before it was threaded back and forth before coming back to the striker, who smoothly passed it into the net. This is why football is a lingua franca: its greatest players articulate their craft in a language everyone can understand.
              Think, too, of England’s defeat of Senegal — and I don’t just mean the sterling display of Gareth Southgate’s team in the second half. No, what of the wonderful dancing and singing of the Senegal fans, draped in national colours, turning a football stadium into a crucible of emotion? They were sad to lose, but their enthusiasm was infectious, a reminder that the journey we call life is not merely about avoiding death, whether from Covid or anything else, but embracing the limited time given to us.
              And now think of tens of millions of Chinese people, stuck in their flats, police patrolling the streets, watching these festivities from afar. It must feel like standing on a cold street corner looking through the window upon a wondrous party. One blogger, Chang’an Ketang, put it this way: “The Qatar World Cup has opened and we haven’t seen the fans wearing masks there, and we haven’t heard reports that they must provide negative PCR test results. Aren’t they not living on the same planet as us? Doesn’t the coronavirus harm them?” Another made a similar point on Weibo: “On one side of the world there is the carnival that is the World Cup, on the other are rules not to visit public places for five days.”
              Indeed the role of the World Cup in triggering the most serious crisis for the CCP in decades is now a standard explanation among political commentators. Melinda Liu, the respected Beijing correspondent of Newsweek, put it this way: “The first thing the [Chinese people] see is, ‘Oh my God, there is an audience there and they are in person, and they are shouting and screaming and having fun, and they are not wearing masks.’
              “And to a country where one quarter of the population is in some kind of lockdown and masks are mandatory just about everywhere, that was a wake-up call. I have friends who have told me that was the moment where a lot of ordinary folks . . . looked at each other and said, ‘Oh my God, we’ve been tricked.’ ”
              It perhaps goes without saying that the CCP has done everything in its power to censor the backlash. Those contrasting life in China with life in the outside world are having their posts removed and accounts suspended. According to Mark Dreyer, of the China Sports Insider blog, even the coverage of the World Cup is subject to censorship, with pictures broadcast with a slight delay so that shots of cheering crowds can be edited out. “Of course there are going to be times when you still see crowd shots — wider shots, after some goals when a cutaway shot would be too jarring etc,” he wrote on Twitter. “But there is clear reduction.”
              Yet even with the great firewall in operation, not everything can be controlled and manipulated by the communist commissars. Not all joy can be erased. Not every picture and story emerging from Qatar can be surgically removed from the mass consciousness. This is a nation of football lovers, tens of millions who became captivated by the game after it was introduced in the 1980s, and whose resentment could become the equivalent of a flammable ingredient lying dormant until it is sparked by a future grievance, particularly if economic growth remains sluggish.
              Sadly, I don’t think the CCP will fall imminently. Its grip is profound and it will almost certainly last for some time. But I do think it is wonderful that the first mass protests since the late Eighties were inspired, at least in part, by this simple and, at times, beautiful game. For the truth is that human beings don’t like to be locked up for no good reason; they want to live. And life, for millions of people, is enhanced in immeasurable ways by the collective joy of football.”

  50. Other positives about this World Cup alongside the lack of hooliganism…
    1. The pitches have been good. How many times (including the new Wembley) have new pitches been slow to “bed-in” at tournaments?
    2. The refereeing has been brilliant. At some recent World Cups yellow cards have been distributed like confetti.
    3. Every single group went to the wire.
    4. Teams seem to want to win, not just draw, matches.

    As for England, regardless of the result tonight, I can not think of a group of people in 2022 (let’s include the England Women’s team as well) who I respect more. The Royal Family? The Tory Government? The Met Police? Yeah, right.

    They are young, vibrant, multi-cultural, with a disciplinary record which currently stands at: Booked = 0, Sent off = 0… and, alongside France, are the best team at this tournament.
    Why couldn’t they have been on the other side of the draw!

    • The referee last night should never go near a top level game again, but to be fair most have been good.

      There was some chat on the commentary about dye being used to keep the pitches green, but also to be fair they are still pretty flat and appear to be not cutting up too much.

  52. Predictions for tonight?

    I’ll follow my head rather than my heart and go 3-2 France.

    With everyone talking Mbappe vs Walker, everyone seems to have
    overlooked Griezemann and Giroud who are likely to be way too
    sharp for McGuire and Stones

    • I’m going 2-1 to England after extra time.
      Think it will be really tight with lots of sideways midfield passes.

      Wouldn’t be surprised at nil-nil, and then Pickford to save France’s fifth penalty.

      • Very, very close.

        If there’s early goal, could end up being the match of
        The tournament

        Think the side that wins tonight will – well should – go on to win the WC itself

        • Unless they lose after being a goal up with the opposition down to 10 men, say, (ring any bells), or lose 7-0, it’s hard to see how this tournament could be seen as a failure for England.

          Prediction – could go either way, but, if they’re going to make the great leap forward, it might as well be tonight… so… England 3, France 1.

          • It’s a failure, yet again, to beat a team that’s on the same level, or better, than them. Croatia ( population 4 million) have manged this at the past two World Cups.

            It’s why, for the time being and for all his team building and media handling skills, Gareth Southgate will not get a managerial job with one of the very top EPL teams.

  58. England were the better side, created few clear cut chances though. Don’t think Mbappé was completely nullified he went past Walker brilliantly at one point and his constant threat prevented the right back from going as far forward as he normally does.

    Was a crazy challenge for the 2nd penalty, I feel sorry for Kane he will hear a lot about it from the terraces for at least the rest of this season. Was an awful effort though, over thinking it possibly. Just hit it fuckin hard! (Like the first one which was superb)

    Possibly England’s best chance to win a World Cup in at least 32 years, they shouldn’t feel too proud at getting to the quarter finals, that was just about par.

  59. Both French goals were tremendous & either was worthy of winning a good game.
    There’s no doubt England had the best of the 2nd half & probably shaded the game overall, but that isn’t what decides top level games.
    *If* England had equalised for a second time, I have a hunch they’d have gone on to win, but if you don’t take clear opportunities like penalties there can be no complaints. I feel the ref was a little over reluctant to award fouls to England, but that happens sometimes & winners ignore it & just play better to compensate. No faults & no finger pointing needed, but France just had what it takes.
    Giroud is still some player, isn’t he just?

  60. Thought England were a credit to themselves last night. More akin to their semi-final defeats in 1990 and 1996 than the so-called “Golden Generation’s” craven capitulation in 2002.

    Hope Southgate sticks around to the Euros in 2024 as he has assembled a squad whose key members (Bellingham and Foden, etc) are going to be making their presence felt at the next three or maybe even four big tournaments.

  63. The most undeserving of hosts got a great final!
    Once again… I can’t praise the refereeing (often the thing that kills it) at this World Cup more highly.

    Put a few hundred on the French to win in 2026.

  64. No lack of drama obviously, but I am left wondering what does an Argentinian player have to do to get booked (shirt & shorts pulling is obviously fine as well as blatant body checks on counter attacks) & why it is impossible to be booked more than once, regardless of misdemeanours?
    Add to the ‘straight red’ sliding challenge in extra time that the ref reluctantly gave a yellow for & TV viewers mysteriously saw no replays of, & I began to suspect that the ref was a homer.
    I admit to being totally partial, but I would not be remotely surprised to discover in years to come that he was handsomely rewarded for the part he played in the game.
    I feel for Mbappe. I can’t imagine what it must be like to score a hat trick in such a game & be on the losing side.
    Sadly, the setting & the Final both left a bad taste in the mouth.
    I should know better.

  65. One wonders what would’ve happened if France turned up for the first half?
    I thought MBappe’s first penalty would be a consolation, but opened the game right up.
    Penalties though, not an ideal ending but I think by the end they both deserved to win, but it was Argentina that triumphed.
    Headline tomorrow morning: Once, twice, three times MBappe

  66. I was otherwise engaged this afternoon, but it sounds like the result neutrals would have wanted – Messi gets his World Cup, and Mbappe will in turn.

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