McGuire, Maddison and Grealish fail to make the plane.
Kane and Shaw remain fitness worries.Given his scoring record
and the facts that Toney’s form is poor and Watkins looks out of
his depth at international level, they really need Kane to stay ffit
So how far do you think they will go?
Top their group and they should have an easy run to the semis
where they’ll probably go out vs France.
Finish second and they will probably faced a resurgent Germany in the last 16.
Third place and who knows if they’ll go through or who they’ll get if they do.
Maddison not making the cut is a surprise – he has the capability, but on current form I do get it. Midfield / Attacking Midfield (now seemingly called Forwards) does look pretty strong without him though.
In Gareth we trust?
Is Luke Shaw the “new” Jordan Henderson? Will be in the squad (despite not kicking a ball for nearly 3 months). Although left back cover is slight.
Cole Palmer and Phil Foden (and hopefully more from Eberechi Eze) should give ‘Arry the support he needs, but if HK goes crock the front line looks a bit “make do”.
My prediction: Quarter Finals
Can’t seem to summon any enthusiasm for it at all. May be losing my interest in sport generally which is weird after being obsessed with it for about 50 years.
I will watch it but this level of analysis at this point in time bores me I’m afraid.
I probably do not know who half the squad is but my interest/knowledge will no doubt grow as I watch the games and we hopefully progress through the tournament.
I am you and you are me. I might fire up the VPN and watch a few of the 8pm matches (5 am for me) now I know they’re free to air. They aren’t here. The 2pm and 5pm matches are on at silly o’clock, so I’ll watch the highlights on YouTube.
I worry about defence. If Shaw is unfit or not match sharp, the better teams will destroy us down their right flank. Branthwaite is a class act and left footed. It’s a mistake not to take him. I had hoped he’d make the squad now that Maguire is gone.
Lacking depth and options. Looks like a flat back four, unlikely to be 3 central and wing backs.
Freed of the Beckham-Rooney farce, I now really looking forward to these tournaments.
What a summer… the Olympics, six Test Matches (if, or course, England decide to play Test Cricket this year), the Euros, and I’ve even found myself listening to a load of 20-20 games – America have just beaten Pakistan! What a match.
Big call… in for a penny, in for a pound… I think we’ll win the group without conceding a goal, 2-0, 2-0, 3-0.
I hope I don’t come to regret that comment.
Hope they play I’ve got tickets for day 3 of England v West Indies at Edgbaston
Our defence will let us down as said above. I can see us winning our group. Going through the last 16. Going through the QF possibly beating Italy again. But if we play France in the semis I can’t see us beating them. Out in the semis to France. France to win.
I’m Irish and am so looking forward to the Euros. We have an inspection team in at work next week only 9 months after they gave us a kicking. I had every Friday booked off as leave for the rest of the summer but have had to cancel the last three to prepare. The Euros start the day after they leave. I’ll have the day off and will sit down to watch as much football as possible over the next few weeks.
The only fly in the ointment is the dread that England win the whole thing. I’ll have to tune out the British channels for the next 10 years at least. They have an incredible array of talent in the team and I expect them to be favourites. This seems to be a widely held view among football fans here. The biggest negative is Southgate’s lack of the killer instinct.
Fear not, Bamber. England will not win the Euros.
There’s one thing that all teams that win a major championships have, and that’s a really tight defence. England don’t have one.
I fear you might well be right @duco01
Or maybe they’ll do what Ipswich did, he says smugly, and just have to outscore their opponents.
I am delighted to learn that all the matches are on TVNZ’s app. Which means they’re free. Woo and indeed hoo.
Given the players available its a decent squad. Lots of options going forward and Shaw being available is important for the defence. I would like to see Southgate sort whatever went on with Ben White out. He is probably the best English defender currently and not having him in the squad is borderline negligent.
Thought White had withdrawn from consideration as a result of his having featured in lots of squads without ever getting any real time on the pitch.
Like many other posters, I feel the team is very weak on the left flank and is going to be ripped apart once they meet an elite team like Germany or France
Weaker in central defence I would say, and the goalkeeper is possibly not quite good enough at this level
Adam Wharton has been a real plus, emerging from nowhere. I hope he can make the team. Agree about Ben White.
Gordon seems a more than adequate cover for LB to me, not sure what the hand wringing is about.
0-1 v Iceland. Ooops.
It’s all part of the process.
The defence looked well balanced and perfectly organised. 😱
Only excuses for last night are that it’s better to lose now rhan a week tomorrow.
It’s also fair to say that a lot of players were holding back for fear of getting injured, as happened to Stones – as vital at the back as Rice in midfield and Kane upfront.
Assuming they fulfil all their promise and get into the knock out rounds, the real test will come when GS has to make substitutions late on in games
Doesn’t really matter. To me it seems that nearly all English friendly games are at Wembley. Is this the case?
The last one as at St James’s Park. I think a major reason Wembley is favoured is because it’s a globally famous stadium and many young players might see playing there as a definite highlight of their career.
I’m sure John Barnes, who scored that wonder-goal against Brazil for England will reflect fondly that he did it at their place, the Maracana stadium. Ultimately it was a friendly and didn’t really matter. The guy who scored for Iceland to defeat England at Wembley will be similarly chuffed, I’m sure.
Ok but they seem to play most of them at home whichever stadium is used. Not many away friendlies
One can’t help but notice that Iceland’s manager is capable of organising an effective defence, notwithstanding what one must assume is a very shallow talent pool. The Icelandic back four yesterday featured three players from the Danish Super League and a Venice midfielder playing at right back.
I thought he looked strong running the canals…
Bit of a showboater though
Yep, the bright side has to be that apparently this is the first time England have lost in their ‘farewell’ match before a tournament since 1968, or, if you like, “You’re only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!”
Which means that truly woeful campaigns – 1980, 1988, 2000, 2006, 2010, 2014, 2016 (invariably featuring Beckham, Rooney, or Beckham and Rooney) – must have been preceded by morale-enhancing performances.
I’m rather puzzled – no mention so far as to whether or not we play McTominay as a False 9 and, after his success at end-of-season Norwich, we play Kenny McLean in the centre of defence. I’m beginning to wonder if you guys know anything about fitba….
The mother of all tournament send-offs
https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=ally%27s+tartan+army
You have success and Norwich in the same sentence. Can I suggest recalibrating?
Don’t know what I was thinking….
Sorry Engand. You’ve lost it already.
3 nil by adverts
Loving the Rishi Sunak-lookalike medic.
Sadly, he’ll be permanently unemployable come July 5
Have we been ignominiously ejected yet?
Just arskin’.
Neither Rooney or Beckham are involved on the field of play, and so this question five days before England’s first game is a tiny bit previous.
Although, in fairness, fifteen-odd years ago the question would have been entirely apt, and the answer would have been…
‘… yes, of course, they haven’t got a prayer, so if any of the players have a holiday booked before the semi-finals – have a nice time chaps, and be sure to be back for the pre-season friendlies’.
A clue as to why England have had such bad tournaments over the years is how they start them.
Since 1980, they have qualified for 19, and failed to qualify on three occasions.
This is their record in the opening matches:
Played 19, Won 6, Drew 8, Lost 5, For 26, Against 20.
Between 1982 (3-1 v France) and 2006 (1-0 v. Paraquay), they only won one opening game of the nine played, in 1998 (2-0 v. Tunisia).
The bottom line is that they’re normally scrambling to get to the knockout stage a few days after they’ve got off the plane and only just got to know where the pool is.
A core reason for the side’s success under Southgate – and a semi-final and a final is comparative success – is that his record as manager in these games reads:
Played 3, Won 3, Drew 0, Lost 0, For 9, Against 3.
I’ve news for y’all, that’s pretty good. Any country would take that.
Mantra: Don’t field injured players, pick players in form, start well.
In other words, do the opposite of 1980, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1992 yadda yadda…
GS has been very good for England, with probably only Bobby R as serious competition as the best since SAR.
Sadly, once the team reach the knock-out stages and comes up against stiffer opposition (Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, Italy and Spain) Southgate is totally clueless each time he needs to mix things up a bit.
Be interesting how he fares when he joins Manchester United. As he surely will when Hadji Wright’s toenail isn’t there to save ETH’s job as it did in the last minute of extra time in the FA Cup Semi Final against CCFC
Well, 2020 Euros they beat Croatia, Germany, Czech Republic, Ukraine and Denmark (and drew with Scotland), only losing in final to Italy on penalties. Pretty good effort, most games at home needs to be mentioned.
The 2021 final vs Italy was a game England should have won and probably would have won had GS possessed some technical nous.
As a far more successful manager once said “you get nowt for coming
second”
Best performances since Sir Alf though. Final and semi final in 2 major tournaments.Only one team can win any tournament, the expectations for England are ridiculous. Maybe Italy deserve some credit instead of joining the blame Southgate Lynch mob. Italy totally dominated the game.
England lost that game because Southgate took off Declan Rice to give Henderson a run in the final. Bad tactical move. Rice was the best player on the pitch.
*Bamber may have viewed this game through claret and blue glasses.
I am sure he would rather win the tournament that give someone “a run”. Maybe Rice was knackered?
I remember total Italian domination after about the first 5 minutes, but then England played better in extra time so whatever team was on the pitch then was doing ok
Did you read my original post, @Dai? The one that opened by saying:
“GS has been very good for England, with probably only Bobby R as serious competition as the best since SAR.”
Hardly the words of a member of the “Blame Southgate Lynch Mob”
(TMFTL)
While I would love nothing more than to see England win a major tournament in my lifetime, I am not one of those fans who is afflicted by “Itscominghomeitis” every two years.
Nor sadly, do I share your panglossian view that Southgate has the tactical flexibility and vision to do so.
Well your first post was ages ago,how am I expected to remember that?
So I take it back, but the expectation that England should just win these tournaments from many fans drives me crazy. It’s basically jingoism and lack of respect for the opposition.
England have won one major tournament nearly 60 years ago, no qualification and all games played at home. Apart from that they don’t really figure as one of the top sides in world football.
My first post in this sub-thread was at 18:45 last night.
Like the man says, it you can’t remember yesterday, you weren’t really there.
To check your cognitive functions, I’d ask you who the Prime minister was but, tbph, I’m not 100% sure myself.
I see June 6th for for first post, maybe you forgot you started the thread.
Justin Trudeau
“pick players in form” – this means not Maguire, Henderson, or Phillips. Although that loyalty does now seem to have passed.
Also, and Alf was very good at this (and Robert Robson to an extent) pick a “team”, not just the best players.
The Golden Generation – trying to squeeze Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes and Beckham into one team didn’t always pan out that well.
For a moment there, I thought that read Robert Robinson, and had a mental image of the insufferably smug and be-comb-overed host of Ask The Family barking out orders from the England dug out
I’m genuinely looking forward to it.
I’ve no reason not to.
My wife has to be in London, so I’m on me tod with a slightly scary cat and, unlike the last time she had to go to London, a more than vague inclination to get a few crafty beers in. Not too many, just a few. Maybe quite a few. I’d go to the pub but I don’t think I can afford it (£5.50 per pint, £6.40 for a Guinness).
The evening games in the early stages are great… Germany-Scotland, Italy, England, France… Holland are knocking about somewhere… and if they are all awful bore draws, there’s always the U.S. Open or the 20-20.
The key question is ‘… do I get a Panini Sticker Album before Friday?’ Tempting, isn’t it.
Or a Fanatics Sticker Album?
Re: Robert Robinson barking out orders from the England dug-out
If Robert Robinson was barking out the said orders in 1966 to Bobby Charlton, you’d have the two most famous be-comb-overed men in history interacting. Which would be quite extraordinary.
@duco01
Better RR barking out orders to RC from the dug out rather than the potentially catastrophic results of them putting their heads together in the tunnel.
Indeed – or even Robinson, Charlton AND Ralph Coates putting their heads together in the tunnel. I daren’t think what might happen…
Bobby C probably took ages to get his combover right with brycreem – only for the seven or so strands to ping skywards as soon as he headed the ball – which was pretty often.
However, RR did very few headers during Ask the Family, so the illusion of a full head of hair was maintained.
@duco01
Man City’s George Heslop was another player with comb over whose intricate latticing Isambard Kingdom Brunel could only have envied
Anyone got any predictions for tonight’s opener?
I think it’ll end up 3 – 1 to Germany
1 – 1
(an uninspiring draw with 1 lucky freaky goal, and one absolute corker)
I’m on Euro 60s pop 24/7 right now, so I’m on an entertainment-all-the-way vibe for the football as well…
Germany 5, Scotland 2.
With my daughters watching together, we are hoping for a German win.
Very pleased with the result – some amazing goals.
Beforehand , I was thinking worst possible result was 6-0. 5-1 is acceptable ignoring the fact Germany scored all six. All now Scotland have to do is win their next two games 3 nil and then we are crowned Champions of Europe ( fact check needed).
Two goals from the first two shots on target is a recipe for catastrophe. The quality of the subs Germany were able to bring on shows you the true gulf in class. But this game was gravy for the Scots – their performances in the next two will dictate their fate. It might even turn out that the goal they “scored” in this game helps them go through as one of the four best third place teams..
Has any team at any major tournament ever managed to come back from such a shellacking and
end up as one of the four best third-placed teams?
Hard to see SC’s men turn around a GD of -4 in two games.
As winning group C seems to be the only way to avoid meeting Germany in the last 16, there is suddenly a lot more pressure on England who can’t afford any slip ups come Sunday
Well, obviously Germany will win their next two games 8-0 which makes Scotland’s progress to the next round certain. I also predict Sunak will win the election.
The first time I remember watching Scotland at a major championships was the 2-0 victory over Zaire in Dortmund at the 1974 World Cup. Obviously, I wasn’t actually there, I just saw it on the telly at home. Peter Lorimer scored, as I recall.
And then in the next game Scotland battled bravely to a creditable 0-0 draw against Brazil. Billy Bremner had a close-range chance that just rolled wide of the post. A great pity.
Poor old Scotland had to depart the world Cup despite being unbeaten, as Yugoslavia had a better goal difference after thumping Zaire 9-0. Sigh. ‘Twas ever thus.
1974 is the first WC I remember. We had our first colour TV for it. I know I could look this up – and I swear I haven’t – but I think Brazil beat Yugoslavia 9-0 and Zaire 3-0.
Right – I have looked it up now. It was Yugoslavia that beat Zaire 9-0.
By the time of the final, the second match of the tournament, Hungary 1 Switzerland 3, will probably be long-forgotten, but let me place on record… what a brilliant game.
Missed that match but will be watching Spain vs Croatia.
Promises yeti be a cracking game.
I’ll go 2 – 2 but could easily see either team edge it 3 -2
Late on
Anyone willing to make a prediction?
What a bizarre team/nation Italy are/is.
2-1 up, the opposition there for the taking, and so they revert to type, with zero intention of killing the game off.
Maybe that’s why all my best friends at school and university were Italians (the only Italians I’ve ever known were my best friends!). They must have been amused at my, and by extension, my country’s football team fretting in such situations.
I suspect they’ll win it again.
So England vs Serbia then…
I’ll hazard 3-2 England- fiercesome up front, fragile down the
left and at the back
England 2 Serbia 1.
Harry Kane penalty in 93rd minute.
Gareth Southgates makes no tactical substitutions which affect the shape, preferring 3 like for like Subs in the 70th minute.
I’ll stick with 2-0.
The Danish match was probably the worst game so far, and even it was a pretty entertaining watch, with neither team defending for a draw.
Which World Cup was it, when the refs were told to book anyone who moved? 2006? 2010? There were about twelve bookings and a sending-off every game. Remember?
Thankfully, the refereeing and VAR have been excellent in the first six matches.
I’d have given Slovenia a penalty but otherwise I agree. Faster and smarter than what we’re used to in the Premier League..
England 30 Serbia love.
The goaliekeeper will get hiccoughs in the 70th minute.
Something…something…tactical substitutions…something…in the 93rd minute.
We bow to your footballing prowess. You are a Titan, a Gladiator and a (sorry, ran out of them words)
Colossus
@Gary
Goalkeeper?
Surely you mean “custodian”?
Not bad. Nice start and the defence held out, despite dropping too deep. Trippier had a good game.
I don’t think the Trent experiment worked that well and Foden should have been hooked with twenty minutes to go but no real complaints about tactics. I expect the same team to start the next game.
First 30 minutes good. Second and third 30 minutes not so good as Sven used to say.
Least impressive of the big teams so far.
Still they won and will hopefully get better.
(We’ve also got Jude Bellingham)
The game was a hard watch (particularly as we had a power cut partway through!) but it was a beautiful goal …TAA to Saka, Saka to Bellingham who make no mistake in burying it. More of that, please.
Also Kane’s header later on would have been a goal 9 times out of 10. He had a quiet game but he only needs a couple of moments like that to make a difference.
Just one point from the next two games should get us through but let’s hope the cobwebs have been blown off and we can get motoring.
Beautiful article in The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/17/marvellous-matador-jude-bellingham-seems-to-be-playing-a-game-of-his-own
I’d have hooked Foden earlier. This is what irks me about Southgate. Foden was having a stinker and he had lots of attacking options on the bench but bottled it. Why put them in the squad if you’re not going to use them? Trippier at left back was a mistake. I actually felt bad for him. No attacking down that side at all. It’s going to cost us in the long run.
I’m not sure how long we can wait for Phil Foden to bring his club form to the national side. Will we be going home before it happens.
If, after the opening match, we are not talking about injuries and bookings, trying to get a player off a suspension so he can play, attempting to wedge players who play in the same position into the side, and are, not unreasonably, looking forward to advancing in the tournament… it is a good start.
No news is good news at European Championships and World Cups.
I noticed it on 78 minutes. When did you notice it? Did you notice it at all?
Namely, the postage-stamp flag in slightly different colours on the back of the England shirts. Looked quite nice.
Wasn’t that the subject of a week of irate front page articles in the Daily Mail and Daily Express?
Strange old game. Expert that I am, after fifteen minutes, I was confidently predicting 4-0. In the end I thought Serbia probably deserved a draw.
Mind you, oh for Scotland to have such problems…
France 1 – Austria 0
Vey entertaining match
Austria desperately unlucky not to get a point.
Broken nose and, more worryingly, a yellow card for Mbappe
Definitely. Even though most of the favourites have won their games, I’ve been really impressed by ‘outliers’ like Albania and Slovakia, and I guess Austria may fall into that category.
Slovakia beat Belgium 1-0 in a absolute classic. Apparently, the biggest shock in terms of rankings in the history of the tournament.
Also dubbed the ‘Golden Generation’, anyone inquisitive about how England performed c. 2000-2016 – I don’t know why you would be, but if you are! – look no further than Belgium.
Thought the move to 24 teams and the resultant rather convuluted group stage was a bad idea, but the quality of the football (in the games I’ve seen anyway) has been pretty good.
England really need to sort out their problems down the left flank. Bit unfair to blame Foden who, like Scholes a few years back, seems to be performing in a position/role he’s not suited to. Assuming he plays from the start on Thursday, he’s going to have to adjust quickly or he’ll be on the bench.
IIRC, Belgium had their own “Golden Generation” between 1996 and 2000 and, like England a few years later, never won anything. Same thing happened a few years back when they seem to have been ranked world number one for ages without ever winning a trophy. The level of dislike/hatred for Lukaku is extraordinary
I didn’t know that. Wild guess… colour of his skin?
He’s certainly scored goals at tournaments (11) and he looked, by a considerable distance, Belgium’s best bet yesterday.
Got a Rooney stat for anyone interested. He scored more goals in Euro/World Cup Finals as an Everton player, than as a Manchester United player. He joined Manchester United when he was 18.
Turkey – Georgia is drawing to a close after being more like a semi final than an opening game. Wonderful to watch for the neutral!
Absolute rollercoaster of a game! This tournament – England v Serbia aside has been non-stop entertainment with some fabulous goals.
People say the cumbersome “four third best teams” going through produces more adventurous group football – those people might be right..
Another brilliant match.
At least five so far, and I can remember whole tournaments when there were barely three games of note.
Game of the tournament so far for me and
two of the best goals as well.
Given how close Georgia came to getting a
well-deserved equalizer that third Turkish goal
was just cruel. Hope they don’t miss out on
a best third-placed spot by one goal.
Cliche of the tournament so far
“Take the sting out of the game…” used multiple times by Alan Shearer and now the guys here in Ireland on RTE – any echoes on ITV?
Worst talking head/analyst/co-commentator
Danny Murphy who made so many wrong calls in the second-half of last night’s Portugal match he’ll be a shoe-in for future England manager
Albania 2 Croatia 2… what an incredible game.
I’ve absolutely no doubt that this tournament – just 13 games in – has produced more outstanding matches than Italia 1990, Sweden 1992 and U.S.A. 1994 put together. All the games have been edge-of-the-seat stuff. The team that’ll win it will probably be the one that goes through unnoticed despite all the mayhem.
‘ere, who was that side who beat Serbia 1-0?
Although there was much to love about Italia 90 (best mascot ever being just one), it did represent the nadir of international football, producing fare so dismal they only went back and changed the rules of the blimmin’ game, helping to usher in the newer, more expansive style we see today.
As a citizen of the Republic Of Ireland, may I say “you’re welcome”..
I’ve had a look at the results from Italia 90, and remember that the word going around the University I attended, was that Germany-Holland (of course, the one I missed – I was on a barge for some reason, and the only place in town without a TV) was the first entertaining match of the tournament.
I’d always presumed it was a group game. Wrong, it was a Quarter-Final and a fortnight into the competition.
I do recall the England – Holland – Ireland – Egypt group being particularly grim with ten hours of quite appallingly dull football.
Re: the dreadful England – Holland – Ireland – Egypt group at Italia ’90.
All those games took place in Sardinia/Sicily, didn’t they?
I bet the poor old Sardinians and Sicilians have never forgiven FIFA for inflicting that group upon them….
Gary Lineker is a real trooper in the cause of equality, asking Alex Scott to explain the football to him. He will have earned his Nithood.
Sir (or Lord) Gary of Wokingham
I still haven’t forgiven him for summer 81. I was recuperating and my dad visited, said Leeds had signed Lineker £250,000. I found out later it was Linighan £25,000.
Scotland turn up shocker!
I seem to always watch a match at tournaments where I’m not fussed who wins, and I only have it on because it’s there, and I know nothing of the players, and they turn out to be the most gripping and exciting watch. I think it it is purely because I don’t care much that I end up totally involved.
An England supporter says: the Trent “experiment” is not working. Declan Rice can do the defensive midfield bit on his own. Stick Ollie Watkins up front with Kane to do the running and give some concern to the opposition defence
Didn’t see the game, but I read this on BBC website:
“No player created more chances (3) or played more line-breaking passes in the final third (5) for England against Denmark than Trent Alexander-Arnold”
Tis true, just don’t think it’s enough to warrant continued starting place
Dreadful.
Regardless of what happens from this point onwards, Southgate really
has to go at the end of this tournament.
Failing to bring a fit Left Back was an early clue that there could be problems.
Those who do no not learn from history and all that.
Oddly, it always seems to be a Man U player who is crocked…
Strange game. Time to drop Kane methinks and let the young uns run free?
Wonder if Toney will get any actual game time or whether he’ll be held back until there’s a penalty shoot out
One might ask the same question about Cold Palmer..
He gave GS a chilly response after last night’s match
This quote from the England manager says it all:
“This is not the England that I know. I hope, when we play the next game, we forget this performance and we forget to play with fear and without confidence. It’s incredible, the mistakes of the players. When they can’t control the ball, or miss easy passes. We missed everything. This is incredible given the level of the England players. I don’t like to speak about individual players. When you don’t play well it’s because of the team. I can change the tactics, I will try to do something different. It won’t be difficult to lift them before Slovenia.”
Not GS after last night, Fabio Capello after the 0 – 0 draw vs Algeria at the 2010 WC
“Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose” and all that
Yikes. Trying to find ‘the bright side’. Erm… struggling to find ‘the bright side’.
Oh, I’ve thought of two:
1. England didn’t lose, just.
2. Someone above posted a picture of Terry-Thomas saying ‘Absolute shower’. Nothing ever seems so bad when you catch a sight of T-T saying ‘Absolute shower’.
Spain are good at football, aren’t they!
Interesting piece about T-T on Graham McCann’s splendid British comedy website.
Far from a cad, it seems he was a thoroughly good egg
https://www.comedy.co.uk/features/comedy_chronicles/terry-thomas-ibiza-years/
This is quite typical of England in tournaments. The next game will be a thumping and decisive win by at least 3 goals. You’ll see.
Yes. You need to peak at the end of the tournament, not the beginning. As long as you scrape through the group stages all can still be well.
Since no team who’ve got four points has ever failed to get a third best pass to the knockout rounds, they’re already into the KO rounds.
Only problem is it’s hard not to see them getting dumped out of the tournament by the first halfway decent team who plays them beyond the group stage.
While no one can diss GS for what he has achieved thus far, he continually falls short when it matters most because he lacks the tactical nous needed to make game-changing decisions.
He also keeps proving himself to be totally clueless when it comes to motivating players who perform brilliantly week in and out for their clubs to do the same when playing for him.
Come the end of the tournament, he really should do the decent thing and stand down for someone capable of taking the team to the next level.
Why not wait and see how they perform after the group stages before writing them off at this point? The abuse I see Southgate getting on e.g. Facebook is out of all proportion to his record. I think a few of the English players could be a tad overrated and the top ones (“who perform brilliantly week in week out”) are generally playing in teams with far superior non English players as team mates which makes a huge difference.
Not waiting them off. Hope they win the thing. Sadly, not that likely to happen.
in the unlikely event England began to play as brilliantly as Brazil did in 1982 from the first minute of the next match and went on to win the thing, I’d still be saying that GS should go. Win, lose or draw, his time is up.
You would surely accept that Bellingham, Foden and Kane are being amongst the “ones who perform brilliantly week in week out”.
Despite playing “with far superior non English players as team mates”, B and F were players of the year in the world’s two top ranked leagues (EPL and La Liga), while Kane scored 44 goals in 45 matches in his first season in the Bundesliga.
Kane is playing in a poor league overall and has lost any pace he ever had, still an excellent player, Bellingham is class. I thought Foden had an excellent season but was very poor in the cup final. Maybe he’s just out of form or knackered? The latter can apply to many Ingerland players who play many games in a fairly competitive league. He should “give it a go” and make 5 or 6 changes for the next game. I also seem to remember in both 86 and 90 England starting very poorly before having generally good tournaments. They rarely convince in the group stages, there was even a dreadful draw against the Swiss in 96
Did I read somewhere that this is England’s best ever start to a European Championship in terms of points gained after 2 games?
Amazing how tiredness only seems to affect the Ingerland players and not the “far superior non English players” they play with (and against) in the EPL, La Liga, etc, and Europe, each week…
“England’s best ever start to a European championship in terms of points” ? Absolutely.
In terms of playing style or tactical effectiveness? Most definitely not.
Team goes a goal up and instead of going out and killing the game by unleashing their vast reserves of attacking talent, they sit back and give the momentum to their opponents. Around 20 fruitless minutes into the second half, Gareth makes a like for like substitution. Repeat and rinse.
As we’ve seen with GS’s much derided decision to play TAA out of position, a major tournament is no time to be experimenting.
Let’s assume though that GS follows your suggestion of “giving it a go” by making five or six changes”.
Who do you feel should be dropped/rested and who do you feel should replace them and how might the change benefit the team?
Tiredness caused by EUFA and FIFA’s bottomless greed in scheduling more and more games and tournaments – many of them meaningless money grabs – is indeed a factor.
Read somewhere over the weekend that Bellingham had played something like 20,000 minutes of football -most of it at a high level by age 20. This is almost five times the amount Beckham played at the same stage of his career.
Hard to see him not getting injured or simply burning out at some point.
On a side note, Wales have just sacked Rob Page who’s done a sterling job in getting them to punch above their weight these last few years
Failure to qualify for the Euros followed by 2 dreadful friendly games did him in. He also showed tactical naivety and seemed to be unable to change tactics during games. Sound familiar?
Indeed.
Unlike GS, RP was only able to call on one player of anything approaching genuinely world class – albeit at the end rather than
the start of his career.
Tough game for Scotland, with both sides in with an outside shot at best third place finish and a game in the last 16 – head says Hungary, but heart says Scotland will run out 2 – 1 winners.
I suppose it will mean a lot to the Scots as they’ve somehow never been in the knockout stages of a major championship, but it does look as though their likely reward will be a game against either Spain or Portugal in the round of 16. Yikes!
As we are in Germany for this one, I am wondering if anyone remembers the noise from the crowds in the 1974 World Cup tournament? It was as if everyone in the stadium had a really loud kazoo. That seems to have gone completely.
I think you’re thinking of the vuvezelas that ruined every match in South Africa in 2010
No I’m not, it was definitely the sound of the 1974 tournament.
Have a look at this footage from a Scotland game – at about 2 minutes in you can hear it.
Ah well, add it to the endless list of failures. Thought Grant Hanley was magnificent, mind. Ah well …
Hmm. Scotland are the great underachievers amongst small countries and the same is true of England in terms of the countries with larger populations. I wonder why ?
When I was a boy every park in Scotland was full of football games, all ages from toddlers to aged guys who really should have known better (no female players of course – that was against the law and anyway everyone knows a girl can’t kick a ball). Any time I go back there’s a dad throwing a ball to his small son (or daughter) and that’s it. There’s also something very wrong with our coaching system and the development of young players. There’s five million of us FFS, we really really should be doing better than this shambles which seemingly never ends
I blame the pop charts, that taught a generation that there was life outside football. This’d never have the same outcome today
https://youtu.be/wDRBDX3nt_o
No, I don’t know why, either.
A lot of people blame the prevalence of computer games – where once kids would have been out in the street having a kick about, they now sit alone in their rooms playing on their PS2s
Nah. It’s a combination of less and less access as schools flog off playing fields, and naff coaching. My step son loved footy until about the age of 10, a reasonably nippy winger who could play a bit. All the local teams were coached by Ferguson wanabees, insisting on playing on full sized pitches, offside traps and a “all that matters is the win” mentality, with no time given over to actually getting better at playing.
He quit playing, switched to rugby, where rules were adapted by age group, fun was permitted, and although arsehole parents were still to be found, the main downside were concussions and broken elbows.
As you say., schools’/LEAs’ selling off of playing fields must be a big factor, too.
Remember our school – originally three schools in one – had huge playing fields
and woods big enough for three or four rugby and hockey pitches and a full-sized
cinder running track. Not been back for 50 years but would imagine is all gone now
I saw the Spanish match, the Spaniards playing in a rather fetching lemon sorbet coloured kit (I imagine sales of lemon sorbet will be through the roof today), and once again the Albanian team took it to the wire.
1-2 v. Italy, 2-2 v. Croatia, and 0-1 v. Spain, playing impressive passing football throughout, has made them one of the real joys of the tournament. And they were a clean team, little fouling, good discipline.
Italy, eh!
As for tonight, let’s be positive and hope it’s like that match v. Poland in 1986, where one Lineker goal seemed to turn England’s fortunes around in an instant.
Hope and pray that England start playing out of their skins tonight and continue doing so in the next four games, but it’s England.
Worse still, it’s England managed by the tactically all-at-sea GS.
On the plus side, the defence has thus far been a lot more solid than expected ahead of the tournament, with Guehi being the standout player.
While we are already through, the team will want to finish top of the group so as to avoid running into Germany early on in the KO rounds.
General consensus in the media seems to be that he should be going for 4-3-3 with Foden (R) Gordon (L) flanking Kane.
Word on the (Fleet – or what’s left of it) street is that instead of bringing Connor Gallagher on as a sub, GS will take the daring step of putting him in the starting XI and relegating TAA to the subs’ bench.
Whether the team are ahead or behind come the 70-minute mark, will be interesting to see how GS uses those subs. Hope he breaks the habit of a lifetime and refrains from do usual default cautious thing as it seems pointless bringing so many attacking players if you’re not going to give them a run out at some point.
Austria vs Netherlands
What a game and it ain’t over yet…
Apparently, Conor Gallagher is the answer! 😀
If he’s allowed to play higher and let Rice do the mopping up in front of the defense.
Interesting move, let’s hope the shape changes a bit too.
They really need to win to stay away from Germany, France, Portugal and Germany.
More importantly, they also need to win well to get naysayers (of whom I am one) off their back
Mainoooooooooo!!!!!
Barney Ronay’s verdict on Conor Gallagher
https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/26/conor-gallagher-the-fretful-fall-guy-in-englands-midfield-tragedy
A long time ago Jimmy Greaves said that the problem with England
was that the players never managed to play with “fire inn their bellies”.
Fifty-odd years on, it doesn’t seem much has changed.
Desperately poor fare compared to what we saw in the previous match
Really needs to bring Gordon and/or Watkins on asap
Hopefully a case of “Cometh the hour, cometh the Mainoo”
Desperately poor again tonight.
Easy side of the draw so there’s that.
That said, while Holland are no great shakes, they look a lot more
likely winners come Sunday.
We know that Gareth will start with the same team except for Mainoo. That will be a small improvement.
I worried about defence, but, apart from two errors from Guehi, both of which e corrected but at the cost of one booking, England have been sound.
Kane is no longer fit enough & Bellingham is tired but both will play. Wingers should be rotated in a timely fashion. Gordon looked great for the 5 minutes he was on the pitch. Give them thirty at least, Gareth. Be bold or is that too much to ask?
Top of the group, avoiding the tough teams. All going to plan. England are very very hard to beat in tournaments, not including penalty shoot outs.
As a bitter & twisted Scot I probably shouldn’t comment but “all going to plan?” The most exciting English team since god knows when and last night even their most ardent fan, my dear wife, falls asleep?
I’ll say it again, time to drop Kane. I wrote this article in The Guardian this morning;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/25/struggling-harry-kane-not-fit-enough-to-create-or-score-for-england
How could they improve on first position in the group? God help the manager if they had come 2nd or 3rd or even 4th? It’s all about results. No doubt he’s holding back some cards for the later stages *. I’m Welsh so I am neutral
* Maybe not
If Scotland won their group there would be a national day’s holiday and the open bus tour would have been booked
If it’s all about results how come the fans showing their displeasure towards Southgate (not very nice, I admit) and everyone I know (all six of them) chanting “Boring, boring”?
England found themselves in a Group they should have always won and won in style. Now, somehow they have managed to find themselves on the right side of the draw. It’s all looking good. I predict Harry Kane scoring a 98th winner in the final…
And what’s it got to do with you anyway, Welsh boy?
“Had Scotland won their group”. Now you are talking bollox…
Would they prefer entertaining exciting football and losing 4-3? Maybe
They’d prefer winning 4 nil and in the style they were promised. They’d also prefer beating Germany on penalties after the world’s most boring goalless final ever. A conundrum which doesn’t stop us saying “So far, England have played shit.”
English fans seem to think it is their unalienable right to win every game 4-0 and all tournaments. They haven’t won one since 1966 (all games played at home), which in terms of the European Championship puts them behind:
Germany
Italy
Spain
France
Soviet Union
Czechoslovakia
Netherlands
Denmark
Greece
Portugal
@Dai
They could have improved on their top position in the group by:
Winning all their matches
or, at the very least
Playing in a style that left their potential future opponents
feeling they might just have a match on their hands
The rest of your comments have all been made – and debunked
several times before in earlier posts.
Still waiting for you to detail the five or six changes you proposed GS
might make (but is too tactically chickenshit to do) and how
the new blood might benefit the team going forward.
They came first, what the hell are you complaining about? I saw Bellingham’s stats he gave the ball away many times. I suppose that’s Southgate’s fault too. He didn’t need to make 5 changes to go through, it would be to appease the ridiculous English supporters, as expressed on social media and corresponding press.
Yes they can play better, so can Germany who struggled against Switzerland, also Italy, Netherlands, Belgium have been not especially convincing despite masses of talent at their disposal. I think the players are tired in general, makes for exciting games when the defences are poor. Seems to me that England’s defence has been good
Yes, as you keep telling us they came first, Dai. The problem is the manner in which they came first does not inspire a great deal of confidence in them getting much further in the competition
You brought up the tired old trope (SWIDT?) about the players being knackered above. As I argued then and you conveniently choose to ignore, if the English players are drained as a result of long, grueling League and European schedules, then surely it follows that the players they are playing with and against week by week in those leagues are equally cream-crackered.
Given that England has such an abundance of attacking options, why doesn’t he get more out of automatic picks like HK, JB and PF by giving the other guys some time on the pitch? He won’t, of course. He’ll just bring them on when it’s penalty shoot out time like he did against Italy and we all know what happened there.
While England’s defence has indeed exceeded expectations, they have hardly been tested by their group opponents and are going to be ripped to pieces when they face some world-class attackers.
Southgate seems have a particular sequence in his head, based on what he perceives to be seniority, and sticks to it, like a metronome, at a steady rate. Branthwaite was ejected because Lewis Dunk was ahead of him. Mainoo had to wait his turn behind Gallagher. Gordon gets on the pitch way too late. Toney will only feature if Kane and Watkins are both injured. Saka and Bellingham start every game even if they obviously need a rest. He doesn’t seem to recognise form and rejects the maxim “if you are good enough, you are old enough”. He favour particular players over the balance of the team. Alf, famously left out Jimmy Greaves because he wanted a particular system. You won’t find Southgate doing that.
Still banging on about 66? He certainly fucked up in 70 having Peter Bonetti as no. 2 goalie who was hopeless in Q final, then failed to quality for the next one. He did get some things right just as Southgate has
@Dai
Says the man who explicitly rather than implicitly (as @TIggerlion did) raised the issue of 66 barely 80 minutes before.
Assume you are aware of why Bonetti was played in the QF?
Stop arguing with Dai and instead read
“In arguably the easiest group of the Euros, with the European Golden Boot winner and several other Ballon d’Or candidates in the squad, England have scored two goals in three games. With seven goals in the nine matches, Group C is the joint lowest-scoring group in Euros history. Against Slovenia, placed 57th in the Fifa world rankings (for context Scotland are 39th), with a population of two million people and just four of their 26-man squad playing club football in Europe’s top five leagues, England showed about as much enterprise as Euro 2024 Daily picking its nose with a jam jar.
Any one player is allowed a bad game. But if everyone has a stinker, then it’s probably something more deep rooted. Jude Bellingham was doing a good impression of impersonating David James’s outfield cameo for Manchester City. Phil Foden was sent to the left wing, when it is abundantly obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes that he has more in common with the Daily Express’ leanings than Kieran Trippier. Harry Kane spent most of the evening in Cologne wandering around the midfield hoping someone might finally notice him. And despite both of England’s goals this tournament coming from the right flank, when Kyle Walker was finally allowed to enter the opposition’s half, the defender spent his evening firing hopeful passes to a marooned Buka who passed straight back to him”
I still think, mind, Kane will score a last-minute winner in the final
Didn’t see your reply or saw it and it didn’t register. I think players who play in German, Spanish, Swiss leagues etc play less games than in England and the leagues are less competitive.
However my latest comment above did apply to players who play for other countries as I certainly saw some tiredness in e.g. some of Belgium’s play. My god, they lost to Slovakia
Anyway, it’s only a game. Thankfully my life will not change one iota whoever wins. Try and enjoy the rest of the tournament and I look forward to your mea culpa when Southgate brings the trophy home 😉
And aren’t you Irish anyway?
@Dai
“Aren’t you Irish?” says the Welshman who has spent so long in Canada he labours under the delusion that Gareth Southgate is the footballing equivalent of Carl von Clausewitz.
FWIW, I was born and raised in Coventry but both my parents were Irish and I held an Irish passport long before I had to apply for a UK one for reasons which need not detain us here.
I don’t think Southgate is necessarily a great coach, but his record is excellent compared to nearly all previous England coaches, didn’t a coach with a great record like Sven have a “golden generation” at his disposal? what happened there? My main point is England are overrated and consistently do poorly at tournaments. I think having a go at Southgate is kind of a mob mentality. God help the poor guy if England had been already eliminated instead of comfortably topping their group
And I am half English, my mother was from Yorkshire, don’t like to talk about it though …
I thought Yorkshire was an independent state.
Top of the group but obviously unconvincing and not playing as well as they should and will need to to progress further. But they’re not alone. Italy, France, Netherlands, Belgium have all underperformed as well and are presumably getting a caning back home. If England come up against Netherlands next, for example, there will be two teams under pressure to raise their game.
Meantime Spain look magnificent but they often do early on in tournaments – let’s hope they can keep it up because they’ve been a joy to watch. Germany and Portugal as well and Austria and Switzerland look strong.
Top of the group… let’s roll with it.
I bumped into a lady on the bus who said she’d seen about ten minutes and saw one chance, and I said that, if she’d been lucky enough to see one chance, she’d essentially seen the whole game!
Effortlessly, the three most baffling English performances at a tournament that I can remember, though, in fairness, I didn’t see any from 2004 to 2016.
Still, if they’re in it, they might win it. Remember Italy in the World Cup of 1982?
After several tournaments where England have wound up in the weaker side
of the draw, I’ve finally twigged that the reason why it’s the weaker side is
that England are in it.
It’s a good point!
Wonderful performance by Georgia tonight.
Maybe, whoever finishes up in the final, this may be a competition most remembered for Turkey, Georgia, Albania and the like?
Napoleon wanted his generals to be lucky. He’d have liked Gareth..
It’s tournament football. If England look like they’re strolling through this, well, that’s because they are. You just wait – a hatful of goals against Slovakia and all this will all be forgotten.
@Sewer-Robot
Indeed.
Let’s hope GS takes advantage of his good fortune by giving us a team everyone can get behind in the R of 16 and beyond.
Rather than continuing his fruitless policy of keeping faith with his old standbys, he could kick things of by giving the subs who did so well during the limited time they were on the pitch vs Slovenia the chance to shine from the kick off on Sunday.
At the very least would mean two from three of Mainoo, Palmer and Gordon and keeping TAA at right back. Depending on how fit Shaw is or whether GS can afford to risk him, he could also look at bolstering the left side of his back four.
Regardless of what happens during and after the KO stages, GS should accept he’s gone as far as he can go and stand down at the end of the tournament before his stock falls still further.
I’m loving the rave reviews for Gordon based on one pass, the only good, incisive pass England have played in four matches.
Really enjoyed watching Turkey play, their right winger Yilmaz is right footed which makes him unusual as all our wingers cut inside to shoot with their left. Refreshing to see a team going for it, right to the end instead of what we have we hold, which is popular amongst the “if you want entertainment go to the circus,” crowd.
Turkey v Austria is the tie of the last 16. I’m torn between being miffed that one of them has to go home and being pleased that one will definitely be in the last eight..
Any predictions for Italy vs Switzerland
Sneaky feeling S will pull it off 2 -1 in normal time
Did you put a bet on? The Swiss look tasty but Italy could easily snatch one before the end.
Mercifully, gambling is the one vice I’ve managed to avoid.
That easy half of the draw looks a lot less easy.
Upcoming, I’ll go 3 – 1 to Germany in normal time.
Any other takers?
Denmark desperately unlucky with the disallowed goal and absurd handball, but G deserved the win.
Going to be hard to beat.
I think if a linesman is not going to be able to detect an offside with his own eyes without VAR then it shouldn’t be given. Better still, don’t have VAR checks for offsides. You have 2 linesmen largely employed to make that judgement. Some matches it seems are a series of injustices against one team.
https://x.com/centregoals/status/1807151735124922634?t=rGpZ_UzEo9CtCsfSr4PYOw&s=19
Always used to be that if the attacker and defender were level, the attacker got the benefit of the doubt., and that handball was only given where there was intent.
It’s all getting stupid now.
Them Swiss didn’t half look good. I reckon they will give Scotland a good game in the semis. I’ll sign off now, Matron will be here soon.
Orson Welles wasn’t so impressed.
He may not have been impressed but he was certainly wrong about cuckoo clocks.
And Findus frozen peas
As expected only change is Mainoo in for Gallagher.
Going to be an interesting game
If they start off like they did for the first 30 mins in the first game,
England should walk it 2 or 3- nil.
If they play like they did from then until the closing stages of Tues night,
I fear we are in for a long, dull evening with England sneaking it on pens.
Hope that it’s the former and not the latter
Pens are cert
It’s all going a bit Biden. What an absolute shower!
Shit.
You’d have to say they deserved it though.
The way the ref is handing out yellow cards – four in 20 mins,
There’ll be some dismissals late on
Wonder if he’ll try to make everything right by bringing
Luke Shaw on in the 70th minute
Are the team scared of getting a nose bleed if they cross the halfway line?
Too many backward and sideways passes.
Possession is good, but penetration is needed
(oo-er)
He needs to get Gordon, Watkins and/or Bowen on now
or we’re out of the tournament and he’s out of a job
Dearie me, England are awful and, of course, will win on pens
Hard to see it now going to pens as the Slovakians are cream-crackered,
If it does go to pens, Toney will, of course, get the winning kick and Southgate Will be hailed as the Sun Tze of the 18- yard box
Thought Rice hitting the post told the story – close but not close enough.
30 minutes – keep the intensity of the later stages of the second half, and maybe some more luck will come
They were lucky that long kick when Pickford was off his line went just wide.
Fair do’s to the Slovakians, they’re still going for it
Bellingham becomes a national hero with probably the first overhead bicycle kick goal England have scored ever.
And as I pressed Post Comment, up pops Harry
Spain 3 – 0
Look nailed on for the final. Possibly against Austria
WTF!
The thing is, the headlines will say Bellingham and Kane saw us through etc but that was really, really precarious.
Twitter has footage of angry English fans leaving with 2 minutes to go … these are the whining arseholes that weaken the backbone of England.
Just watching Spain. Lovely flowing football – in another class to
England – inexplicable when you look at the world-class players
at GS’s disposal
Georgia gave them a hell of a game though
‘Football fans’ leaving before the end of the game usually means ‘people who aren’t football fans’ wanting to drink more beer. What a pity people who might have wanted to see the game weren’t there instead of them. You miss the last two minutes, you were never there in the first place.
England? Very lucky.
If Spain lose to Germany in the next round, we’ll all say – ‘Hey, they were good, could have won it, really unlucky draw, playing against the hosts’ etc.
England lose v. the Swiss in yet another underwhelming performance, we’ll all say – ‘What a shower!!’ … and we’d be 100% right.
But, you know what? Still in it. Don’t know how.
Georgia? Brilliant. As so many of the unfancied sides have been in this excellent tournament.
Thought Slovenia would get tanked 3 – 0 and they’ve
played brilliantly.
Given Oblak’s save and Ronaldo’s breakdown, the odds
Must be on them to win the shoot out
Well that was quick!
Aus v Turkey another enthralling game.
Amazed T are two ahead – deservedly so, too
Spain v Germany – second fabulous game in a row – Spain thoroughly deserved
Winners
Nice article about Southgate @jaygee
https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/05/euro-2024-england-gareth-southate-successful-manager-failure
Cheers. Read it earlier on.
Think “hate” is putting a bit strong ( as was “greatest ever
manager”). Most of GS’s detractors – myself included – go to
great pains to credit him for the remarkable progress he’s made.
Sadly, he is totally lacking in the tactical nous that wins tournaments,
or at the very least gets you to the final playing good football.
Hope they win and play handsomely when winning tomorrow and beyond,
Sadly, can’t see it happening.
He’s had eight years. W, L or D at this Euros, it’s time he stood down.
Especially so If Klopp is up to the challenge of taking the team to
The next level
I think he’ll be offered the Germany job.
Or USA
@TIggerlion
@Dai
Not sure if they’ll get shot of Nagelsman who probably could – and almost certainly will – argue the Malcolm McClaren defence that his team wuz robbed by the Spanish hippy and his handball.
If Eng get rid of GS at the end of his contract (apparently Dec this year) that could give JK just the break he needs from footie.
On the subject of JKs, I always thought Kinsman’s Anglophilia might have made him a good fit for England around the time of McLaren (Shhhteve, not Malcolm)/Capello (Fabio, not fabulous)
Anyone got any predictions for tonight?
While hope I’m wrong, I have a horrible feeling they are going to struggle and will go out either 3 – 2 AET or on pens
Bit better. Saka looking useful
Well done England – deserved winners of a hard-fought game!
And fair play also to GS for a very shrewd triple substitution
Great penalty from TAA at the end. Pleased Saka nailed his. Not sure they were deserved winners otherwise, really nothing in it
It’s odd how England teams almost always seem to play better when they go a goal down than they do when they go a goal up
Anyone see the Christiano Bidenaldo car crash last night.
Thought Gary Lineker’s joke about CB’s two masseurs (one on each leg) being joined by a third was priceless.
Hope on hope it’s not an England vs France final
Why not? We’d stand a chance. Their midfield is as much a mess as ours.
Likely to be be incredibly boring to watch for precisely that reason
If we have skin in the game, it won’t be boring me.
Was just writing why no subs and the Swiss went and scored…
Well I’m still waiting for the England team to really turn on the gas but in the meantime, somehow, we’re in the Semi Finals! France have performed worse than we have and they’re there too. Perhaps this is the way to do it – grind it out rather than go hell for leather.
The Swiss game was another tough watch but was pleasantly surprised by how well the penalties were taken. Very pleased for Bukayo Saka in particular.
I believe England do better under a Labour government or so I’ve heard.
Except in 1970, 1974, 1978, 1998 and, 2010
1970 was under a Ted Heath Government (or the very last days of it). Hence the claim at the time. 1974 and non qualification put the mockers on that soundbite
No it wasn’t
With Labour enjoying a healthy lead in the OPs after two terms in power (64 and 66), Harold W called the election for Thu June 18 at which point Ted Heath got in.
The election fell four days after Ramsey’s Eng team got dumped out of the 70 WC QF by West Germany – a fact that many believe contributed to Labour’s loss.
Argh … got very confused on dates. You are, of course correct, and I’m a very confused old Hector
I can’t really verify this, as clearly I wouldn’t have been following their progress intently throughout any given tournament, but I suspect that a significant percentage of teams over the years who have lifted European Championships/World Cups have invariably been lucky on the pitch/sucked eggs for hours on end/got a lucky draw on their way to doing it…
Italy 1982… Holland 1988… any Brazilian team without Pele… etc. etc.
In 2024 we’re doing all three at a canter! Game on.
Italy 82 had to get past Zico and the boys before beating Germany in the final but, yes, they were dire (as you might say yourself) in the group stages.
The only team I can think of who won a major trophy without anyone laying a glove on them is Spain, but even they had to squeak through games as they sometimes struggled to turn their dominance into goals.
The vast, vast majority of teams who have played as poorly as England have in this tournament go home early. So, paradoxically, the fact Gareth’s boys are still in there fighting might be seen as proof that Uri Geller, or some other higher power has your back.
England look increasingly like the Manchester United of Europe – no real team coherence, but enough dangerous players capable of decisive moments to carry them to the final of a knockout competition. And it’s only a couple of months since United’s bunch of underachievers overcame a vastly superior team in a cup final, (thanks, in no small part to Kobbie Mainoo), so that’s encouraging too..
Thanks in no small part to the offside against the ref granted MUFC against Coventry in the FAC Semi-final, but otherwise pretty much spot on
Well VAR granted it. Maybe ridiculous but he was a toenail off.
Thanks for the reminder, D.
Like most CCFC fans, I’d pretty much put this behind me. Unfortunately, this week we found out that, far from expressing his gratitude to Haji Wright for saving his job, Eric Ten Hag had in fact sent him a bill for the deposit he’d lost on his TUI holiday as a result of having to attend MUFC’s pre-season training.
I don’t like this new thing of throwing drinks in the air when England score, I end up looking round to check who looks like they’ll be mad enough, and edging away from dodgy types. It’s not like completely out of the blue; the penalty will either go in, or it won’t. All being said, it doesn’t happen very often.
Since they don’t seem to have servers walking up and down the stands between the rows of seats like they do at American Football* and baseball, getting yourself a drink at matches looks like a serious undertaking.
And with a pint/litre of beer costing E7.50 plus a E3.70 deposit for the beaker it comes in, those beers ain’t cheap.
Given that the beakers would presumably need to be quite full to travel all the way to the pitch from high up in the stands, I am wondering if they are in fact full of beer or another altogether more unpleasant liquid.
Any AW boffins who might care to elaborate on the physics involved in this phenomenon?
* As opposed to soccer ball
“And now to Daphne and Celeste pitchside…”
Astonishingly, EUFA in all its wisdom has selected Felix Zwayer to ref their semi-final with Holland. Herr Z was previously banned for six months for taking an E300 bribe for match fixing in, IIRC 2005.
Making EUFA’s choice of ref even more absurd is the fact that Jude B got fined E40,000 for questioning Zwayer’s integrity when he refereed a match during JB’s time at Dortmund.
Will bring UEFA into car crash territory if there’s any controversy involving Bellingham. Imagine he gets sent off – or if he stays on when he could have been sent off.
Taking bribes and getting away with it – Herr Z is on track for a bright future at EUGA
I was looking forward to tonight’s second place playoff but that switch from the white to the silver ball has knocked a solid 30% off my enjoyment..
Phil Foden has finally, properly turned up at this tournament
Agreed.
Totally different team tonight
and a really great first half
Fourth game of this tiurnament I’ve seen with two balls on the pitch while the game is going on. That’s more than I can recall in my previous fifty years watching football..
Fair play to England, they really delivered tonight.
Extremely enjoyable game to watch, too
Never ever a pen but England deserved it.
Gareth Southgate (player and manager) – Four semi-finals, and now… two Finals.
The ‘Golden’ (are you George?) Generation – 1,000 caps, no semi-finals, no finals… the footballing equivalent of an Indie hit.
I’m so pleased I started watching England again in 2018.
Every 14th July a bunch of locals hold a party, much jolliment, food, drink, live music and fireworks to top it off. We accepted way back in June, well before we realised the Euro final is played then. No way will the hosts allow the telly to be switched on. They are good mates and lovely people who have no interest in footie. Looks like I’ll be at the back watching the game on my phone
Complete opposite for me, family barbecue has been arranged ifor a couple of months n London to coincide with the final. I’ll take a book.
There was a handball by Saka immediately prior to the questionable penalty incident that was not picked up by the ref. England were lucky there but then it seems there have been many such incidents that went against the team in the past so I guess it’s time they had a bit of good fortune.
I thought the penalty was questionable but overall England had a disallowed goal, one clearance off the line, two woodwork hits – and the second goal was a thing of wonder. England deserved the win.
I’m going to relax now and enjoy the final. Being knocked out in the quarters or the semis is ‘orrible.
There’s a pleasing Karma that England knock out Ronald Koeman’s team with this dodgy penalty, all these years after Koeman pulled back Sheringham quite blatantly and were denied a penalty.
Yep, that wasn’t lost on me.
It wasn’t a penalty that was denied, if memory serves, it was the automatic sending off of Koeman for fouling a player when he/she was through on goal, a directive that had just been brought in. England got the free-kick, missed it, and the Dutch went up the other end and scored! Again, my memory may not be so good on the nuances.
I’ve discovered that the final is free on Optus sport on Monday morning, kick-off 5AM. I think I can manage that.
Southgate is inching towards a half decent, balanced team. Mainoo is a sure starter. Three at the back is best. Shaw brings a look-forward on the the left.
Rice had a poor game and hasn’t played well all tournament. Giving the ball away to a high Spanish press will be disastrous. Kane has been awful but could still win the golden boot. He’ll start with both.
There will be goals and I think it won’t go to penalties. I have work Monday morning.
Formally the concern of taking Luke Shaw having not played since February, he is proving more effective on the left than Trippier.
Would like to see both Kane and Watkins up front, but may leave too much space which Spain would exploit
Was it or was it not a penalty? HMHB offered these sage words 21 years ago:
Oh you can’t put your foot up in Europe
You can’t show your studs on the ‘nent
They take a dim view of a slightly raised shoe
So think on if you’re up against Ghent, my lad
Think on if you’re up against Ghent.
How much truer that advice is in games involving the Dutch national side!
There’s also a line in there about handball having to be deliberate. Those were the days!
Good point. That’ll be from The Referee’s Alphabet:
H is for handball, which has to be intentional, and very rarely is
I won’t spam the thread with the full lyrics but they are splendid and can be read here https://halfmanhalfbiscuit.uk/cammell-laird-social-club-2002/referees-alphabet/
K for kissing of the badge reminds me.. I saw a player do that in this tournament and thought how much more unusual that is in international football when, logically, it should be more common when you’re committed for your whole career.
(Only contra argument would be that the club badge represents the club where, for example, the badge on the Ireland shirt represents the FAI and nobody could love them..)
Not to worry.
Having been passed over for a post in SKS’s cabinet, Emily Thornberry will shortly be along to remove the offending banner
Interesting doc about Terry V on Sky Docs at the moment which features a lot of input from Gareth S.
Clear from watching it that GS learned a lot of his team-building skills from El Tel.
Happily GS was spared Venable’s fondness for dodgy dealings which cost him the England job and the national team arguably its best shot at a WC for 32 years.
Man alive, I know I’m a bitter Scotsman but, crivvens, all this fuss about winning the Euros – national holidays, history being made, England Expects, God Save The King (and let’s hope Kate pulls through) etc etc and bloody etcetera.
I’m totally impartial of course but after all this nonsense I hope Spain win five nil.
The point I’m trying to make is all this fuss (closing supermarkets, emptying all the jails) is about the Euros. I could understand it if it was the World Cup but it’s the bloody Euros!
And just to be clear, I hope England win, I hope it’s a great game and I hope it doesn’t go to penalties.
I’m going to a British pub at 6:30am Monday morning our time. Game starts at 7am and they are legally allowed to start pouring beers at 8am. I’ve got the day off work and two good friends are coming with me. If we win I don’t know how the day will unfold.
The alarm is set for 04:45 for a 5am kickoff. I’ll be watching in my jimjams. Your morning sounds a lot more convivial.
Well I’m back now and it’s still mid-morning. It was a packed pub and a very friendly atmosphere. I’m at the numb stage at the moment. The three of us had a coffee afterwards and I was quite happy to talk about other things.
Spain were the better team and if England had sneaked an equaliser at the death it would have been fantastic but they didn’t – and we can’t really complain about anything really. I’m just relieved that there wasn’t a scapegoat figure who missed a crucial penalty etc.
Anyone up for a prediction?
I’ll go 3 – 2 AET – buggered if I know which team though
1-1 => Penalties, Pickford to save one. But the final result … not calling it.
On the evidence so far, 2-0 Spain.
England look so much better without Kane.
Certainly more able when it comes to scoring
At least it didn’t go to penalties…🤔
Gave Spain a fight but fell just short.
Gareth S has gone as far as he can go and
should stand down wiping his reputation Intact.
Tournament too far for Harry K.
Roll on the 2026 WC.
Spain are worthy champions.
Indeed. YamaL and Williams are scarily good
England did as well against Spain as anyone but weren’t quite good enough. I wonder who all of those people blaming Southgate think should replace him. Unlike Germany Spain and Italy the UK is simply not producing top managers and coaches. Southgate’s done better for England than anyone since Ramsey and he’s done it with grace and decency. Hats off to him.
I agree. A decent bloke with an excellent record. But as England hinted when Kane was finally yanked, you do have to wonder what we could have achieved had he given any of Watkins, Toney, Palmer, Bowen etc a run. Acres of attacking talent on the bench and mostly unused.
I would replace him with Lee Carsley. He has experience of winning an international competition.
As for Southgate, I don’t have a problem with him not winning anything. I do find it disappointing that he better the squad of players at his disposal, the worse the team has played. The latest incarnation seems to have taken Roy Hodgson’s Palace sides as its inspiration.
Much of the latest tournament has seen the team apparently hamstrung by the absence of the preferred left back. Funnily enough, I was reminded that when Italy beat England at the last Euros, the Italians were playing a bloke who at the times was Chelsea’s third choice left back.
Ohnwell, the wait continues. With little prospect of successs in the next World Cup, I guess we will have to wait for the ‘home’ Euros in 2028.
Eddie Howe seems to be the favorite.
Amazingly, MOTD’s Alan S and Gary L were both saying how good Fat Frank Lampard (average win rate across his managerial career approx 40%) would be a good choice. They did so on the basis of his literally talking a good game during his appearances with them.
Fortunately for England, Shearer seems not to be offering his own services to the national team at this time
Outtside bet; Jurgen Klinsmann
He’s nearly English, based on a year and a bit at Spurs
Lampard! Yeah, that’s a good idea, let’s get Lampard and Beckham, the dream ticket. Who knows, they may even reach their first semi-final!
Re: Spain – Since Brazil in 1970 – pretty much the benchmark of a dominant side at a tournament – I can’t think of a team which has most deserved to win either a European Championship or World Cup. I don’t think there is one.
Hardest group, won all three games, toughest half of the draw, won all four games. And done it all with skill and panache. Little, if anything, to dislike.
Too much garlic for my liking….
Plus the way the roll their “r”s. Italians roll their “r”s a bit, but the Spanish go on and on. Like the theme to Rawhide. Every conversation is like: “Rrrrrrrrrr … algo rrrrr… algo algo … rrrrrr …”. Plus they call people things like Seve Ballesteros and no one seems to mind.
Spain now have the new players who can get them to finals. Previously they’ve had periods of underachieving with some of the best moves around but an inability to score. They have had chances after chances but have left the field without the goals they should have had. So let’s not over romanticise it.
OK, they were bollocks!
I think the word you’re looking for is “cojones”
And as for Spanish waiters…. friendly, helpful and most of the smarmy bastards speak English.
In France, two years at Waiters College to learn how to ignore a raised arm, talk to your friends for ten minutes and to dispose the body of the stranger who dared call out “Oi, garçon!”
Well I for one think that Frank Lampard would be a great choice as the next England manager.
*sips Irn Bru*
Only team to beat Spain in the Euros comp – wha’s like us?
Spain were the best team in the competition but they also had a massive stroke of good fortune when they played Germany and the English officials chose to ignore the clear handball by Sideshow Bob that could hav e given a penalty and probably the lead to a very good German team. Minutes later Spain scored the winner. It was a very even game and Spain could easily have exited at that stage. I’m glad they won, As I posted early in this thread, I was dreading the prospect of England winning the competition even before their dreadful performances.