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Don v Joe – who wins?

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The guitar playing in “Hotel California” regularly, and quite justifiably, turns up in “Greatest solo” lists. However it’s not a solo at all, of course – it’s a duet if anything. In olden times it might have been called a guitar duel….so who won? Don Felder has an immediate advantage as he is playing a cool double neck so he gets to do the tinkly bits, and his extremo string bending is unbeatable. But…but…Joe is upstaged by no man and seems to be plugged into some extra force, coming up with stuff no one else does. So the questions, who won?

P.S. This is what you ponder when driving to Ikea in Milton Keynes in the holidays…

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  1. Well, on the guitaring front I’d call it a score draw, but Joe easily wins the gurning competition. In fact, I think only Robin Trower could come close to Joe in the gurning stakes on a good night.

  3. I’m one of those who believes The Eagles stopped being The Eagles when Bernie Leadon left. 1976 May have been the year they made most money, including a phenomenally well selling Greatest Hits, but they weren’t The Eagles any more.

  5. For all its ubiquity, that’s still a mighty song, isn’t it?

    And we had two 12 strings on stage there, counting Glenn Frey’s big ol’ Martin D28-12.

    The Don Felder twin neck Gibson is now available as a signature model from the Gibson Custom shop. Looking at it close up there it’s possible to see the modifications he made. The machine heads have been replaced with smaller metal buttons and the pick-up covers have been removed. Interesting to see he used a two quid elastic capo on the 7th fret of the 12 string neck for that song, too.

    I hadn’t realised the actual individual solos were so short, most of the guitar break is taken up some exquisite twin guitar harmony playing which I really enjoyed and must have been so difficult to do live.

    I can’t decide who came out on top, but I can confirm that Joe Walsh looks better now than he did back then.

    Joe is a great, funny guy. On one of the Crossroads concerts he introduces his big solo hit Rocky Mountain Way like this: “If I’d known this song was going to become so popular I would have written something a little better”.

    • I played a Gibson double neck once, in a guitar shop in Paris. Man it was heavy. Wouldn’t have wanted to hold it for long, that’s for sure.

      Nice observations on the mods he made. I spotted the capo too, and I wonder if better ones were available then? The night sprung one hander capos tend to put the guitar out of tune, and the modern G7 type were decades away. Was the Shubb around then? Those elastic ones were everywhere, weren’t they! You’d get a “Folk Guitar set” with crappy U padded case, woven strap, tuning pipes and a laccy capo.

      UPDATE…seems the classic Shubb wasn’t even considered till 76 so Don probably didn’t have one…

      http://www.shubb.com/history.html

      • The metal Hamilton capos have always been available but as you say they may put a 12-string out of tune. Saying that, you wouldn’t think a cheap elastic one would have enough power to be effective on a 12 string.

        Pitch pipes! I’d forgotten about those horrors. Electronic tuners have to be the greatest gift to guitarists since light gauge strings.

      • Many years ago, a music shop (now closed) in Banbury in Oxfordshire sold Shergold guitars. I remember lifting a 12-string and a 4-string bass up from their racks, to get an idea of how heavy they were. Heavy. Even with a bit lopped off both guitars, Mike Rutherford of Genesis must have had an osteopath on speed-dial after a few years lugging his custom double-neck around. Would still love one. I’ll just have to make do with my Shergold double-neck air guitar, which is thankfully as light as a feather.

        Edit: just remembered they sold Hagstrom and Danelectro, too.

        • In the same guitar shop in Paris they had a Dano doubleneck too which was a bit more manageable as it was semi solid. And in purple sparkle finish. Fab.

          • I owned a twin-neck at one point back in the day – couldn’t afford a Gibson, but I was well into my Charlie Whitney / Page obsession at the time, and bought an Ibanez copy. SEVERE neck & shoulder strain – not recommended for more than a couple of toons at a time….I’ll see if I can find a photo somewhere…I might have hair as well….

  6. I never get tired of watching that vid – Felder so calm and self-contained, just the occasional half smile, Walsh making faces (it was probably World Play Like a Pirate Day) and puckishly doing his best to call him out. Felder starts off more restrained, almost diffident, while Walsh lays his rawk cards right on the table. By the end they’re both right up there.

    Considering they were probably all completely out of their trees, it’s an astounding performance. I get as much pleasure from watching Henley singin’ and drummin’, absolutely on top of his game. What a great band they were, although it’s probably true to say that my interest in them peaked with Hotel California.

  7. Don wins. I love Joe and was more familiar with his solo stuff than The Eagles growing up (But Seriously Folks – what an album!) but Don steps away from the minor pentatonic scale more and touches magic with a few of those note choices along the way.

    • Felder is the more accomplished musician, but Joe is by far the better electric guitarist. (Does that make sense? Not really, but, besides sounding dead perceptive at first sight, it’s what I actually believe.)

      You also have to take into account their respective riffage credentials. One came up with “Funk #49”, “Turn to Stone”, “Rocky Mountain Way”, “In the City”, “Life in the Fast Lane” and “Life’s Been Good”, while the other gave us, er, half of “Hotel California” – and even then with a little help from The Jethro Tulls. I know whose CV I’m the more impressed by.

      Ultimately end of the day push comes to shove, Joe Walsh is and has always been what he himself calls “a lead rhythm player”, forged in a three-piece like Clapton and Rory Gallagher and Billy Gibbons and (because non-guitar-playing vocalists don’t count) Jimmy Page and Angus Young. Because of that, his playing style is both punchy and melodic, and often quite basic, since he learned his trade by being the go-to riffs and licks guy, simply because he was the only possible riffs and licks guy in the band. Don Felder, on the other hand, had the luxury of being Mr Rilly Groovy Noodly Bits, his rhythmic butt always being covered by Glenn Frey and Leadon/Walsh . And because as guitarists Walsh and Felder are such different beasts, I’m not sure we can really say who the “winner” is in the “Hotel California” outro section, because we aren’t comparing like with like.

      A similar example is the Telecaster duel between Bruce Springsteen and James Burton on the live “Pretty Woman” for Roy Orbison’s Black and White Night. As expected, Burton pisses all over Bruce technically, but which one has you going “Ooh yeah” with a shiver running up your spine? As with Felder and Walsh, although I may and do greatly admire the chops of one, it’s the other who I really feel.

      • I have no idea about their backgrounds, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that young Mr Felder had more lessons than young Mr Walsh. And that it was Joe who spent more time figuring out how to play along to those radio hits he grew up with. Joe has feel and instinct in spades. He’s just outclassed in this example in my view. But give me Turn to Stone or Meadows over this bloated, meaningless bs any day!

      • I agree net net Joe has the more impressive CV, and is terrific of course. It’s a daft question really, for fun, but I think I agree with Bart, Don aces it by being somehow more elegant and impressive as a pure lead player on this occasion. I suspect a night of Joe Walsh might be more fun than a night with the Don Felder band however.

      • Pretty Woman footnote: I have just discovered, courtesy of the possibly over-detailed John D Loudermilk fan site (see Bobby Vee and JDL threads), that Joe Tanner, who played guitar on JDL’s earliest records back in the late 50s, was the man who laid down that famous riff on Pretty Woman. Played on his custom made Rickenbacker 12-string, it says here. I’d never noticed that it was a 12-string. He arranged In Dreams too, apparently.

  8. Probably a good point to address the Tull question. As you all know, my affection for the Tull knows no bounds. However, I don’t think there is any connection between “We used to know” and “HC” – they both work around the circle of 5ths, as composers have done for centuries. People talk about Tull touring with the Eagles but Don Felder wasn’t even in the band then. Bags of examples here….

  9. What a splendiferous question thread, if only for the chance to crank up the speakers and give ‘ver Hotel another spin. Archie nails it above, as serious answers go.

    But my take is that it’s Joe Walsh we’re talking about here, so there’s no f***ing contest. He’s quite possibly the coolest human being ever to strap on a geetar, so Don, cute, melodic and elegant though his playing is, just ain’t got the same grits.

    • My non-musician 2 pennorth, based on seeing the Eagles on their last tour, 2 or 3 years ago, without, famously, Felder being allowed anywhere near the stage. I can’t even say who did the Felder parts but they still pulled off a credible version. But my problem was Walsh. Yup, so he is/was the remaining sliver of credibility in a band by then so tainted in naffness that their pre-Walsh glory days were all but forgotten, and, jeez, did he know it. It became progressively the Joe Walsh band on stage in the 2nd half, to delineate when he joined, by the encores it being a utter gurnathon of his solo and pre-Eagle stuff. I left before the end.

  10. I just want to know how they could play those harmony parts so well, whilst probably being completely off their tits on the jazz talc. I can barely hold down a chord after two pints. What gives?

  11. This is a great thread. I kinda want to ask now who wins between Paul, George and John in the three way guitar duel on The End…. Does that deserve a thread of its own…?

    (John is the answer. And you know that. For sure).

    • The fantabulous thing about the solo duel in The End is how you yearn for each upcoming part – well I do anyway. And whilst I appreciate Macca’s fluidity most, musically, I can’t help smiling each time Lennon cuts in, unashamedly and no less enthusiastically, with rhythm and noise. The best bits of each’s personality and ability.

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