I was chatting to another member of the Massive last night about this so I thought I’d see what others think. After my moan about the sound quality for Squeeze’s gig at the Albert Hall, we were wondering whether it’s important to have a clear view of the stage as well as good sound. We were at Manchester’s Bridgewater Hall where the stalls are only gently raked upwards. Right in the centre of the front row was a very tall (6’4″ or 6’5″ I think – he’ll correct me if I’m wrong), broad bald feller and, particularly when he took to his feet (and he was standing for at least half the gig) the people in the 2 rows behind him must have been really struggling to see, especially as the people either side of him were both over 6′. Fortunately, I was fine as I was standing next to him and had an absolutely perfect audio-visual experience. Bellowhead’s sound people did a superb job and every instrument was audible and the whole sound was well-balanced. The band were superb. I think it was my gig of the year, but I might not have enjoyed it quite so much if I’d been 5′ tall and in the second row, especially since Bellowhead are good to watch as well as to hear. Their stage antics are very entertaining. Also, I like to look at the people whose instruments catch my attention in the mix from time to time. For me, having the perfect view was a significant part of the pleasure of the gig.
So if you’re at a great concert but with a terrible view, does that matter.
Apologies, there should be a question mark instead of a full stop at the end of that post.
My experience is that the further away I am from the stage the less I enjoy the gig.
There’s a lot of sonic detail I can embellish in my imagination but I can’t replicate being close to a performer.
I think tall people should kneel at all standing gigs, and swap seats with shorter people if sitting.
I think tickets should be allocated in order of height.
Bring back platform boots.
or those booster seats you get in the cinema?
You’d be splitting up an awful lot of couples.
This is why I stand at the back most of the time and if I am seated, I will slump down as much as possible. It must be awful to be stuck behind me if you’re average height or less. I will do my best to accommodate but sometimes there’s not a great deal I can do about it.
I went to a very old, very packed venue to see Martin Stephenson in the 90s and we had a small table on a rickety balcony. By the time the show started we were surrounded by standing audience members, who 100% blocked our view – even when we stood up. So we gave up trying and just listened to the music when the show started. Not ideal.
Tip the feckers over the edge.
Stopped going to high-level football because of all the constant standing up/sitting down needed to watch a game.
Went to Exeter City a few weeks ago. They have a big open standing terrace (the biggest in Britain?), picked my spot, had a perfect view of the pitch. I shouldn’t think too many Premier League supporters that day, especially those in the away section, could say the same.
Yes it does. Not being able to see the band properly would ruin a gig for me.
Indeed if all you can see is someone’s back you might as well be sat at home listening to a disc.
Depends on what is being played and on who is playing it.
If a band/artist are replicating an album pretty much note-for-note then you’d hope they’d be interesting to watch, otherwise you may as well be at home listening to the record. “Mach Shau” is the name of the game.
If improvisation is the deal or at least part of it, it’s good to see what’s going on, who’s doing what.
With a band that are just standing/sitting there, watching is a lot less important.
Agreed. It’s one reason why I won’t even contemplate going to the Fleece venue in Bristol: level floor, standing only, guaranteed some lanky git or three right in front of me (I’m 5’9″).
Mind you, I also swerve the place cos the sound is usually shite.
As a tall person, I am acutely aware of my height at gigs. Seated is best particularly if the venue has decent raked seats. If I’m standing, I will be careful where I stand and will avoid moving around as it creates a wave of people behind moving.
The legroom issues that we tall people have, especially in transport situations, more than negates gig advantage. Especially when the seat in front can be reclined. My other pet peeve is when someone puts their massive puffa puffa jacket over the back of their seat and into the already too small for my knees legroom.
To answer Steve’s question though. Great sound and iffy view is preferable to great view and iffy sound.
I once had a pleasant chat about the terrible legroom at Hackney Empire with the even taller bloke in front of me – Al Murray – who really could barely fit into the space. Nice man. And King Crimson were tremendous that night.
I’m not going to the Hackney Empire then. Don’t you love it when affable comedians turn out to be affable people?
6’3″ according to my medical today. ( I have started to shrink.)
In my defence, I only stood up when the band told us to. I’d have felt like a lemon if I’d been the only one seated on the front row, just as Benji, Jon et al were trying to turbocharge the atmosphere.
Yes – sound and vision create the spectacle, and memory, of the gig.
(plus, being nerdy I like to try and work out what chords they’re playing when, whether the bassist is plodding or flashing, and if the drummer is putting a shift in).
Saw Buzzcocks some time ago at Butlins – so I stood where I’d have a great view. Sound was atrocious, so moved towards the back and the sound got better, but didn’t feel quite so involved.
Festivals? You may as well stick the record sleeve down the end of your garden and play the album.
Then again, there’s a certain atmosphere to Festivals (something to do with being in the open air and smoking & drinking while the band(s) perform)
Smoking? You better not be standing anywhere near me!
I did walk out of Ben Folds at the Royal Opera House some years ago; he was so far back from the “apron” that from my seat to the side I literally couldn’t see him, which defeated the object somewhat…
Went to They Might Be Giants at Shepherds Bush Empire the other week and, while it was a great gig, I was reminded of how bad sightlines are there. I’m 5’ 11” and was on tippy-toes if I wanted to see anything, which I gave up on after a while. Two nights ago I went to Hammersmith Apollo to see Jason Isbell and had a pretty good view wherever I stood, thanks to the rake of the floor. Brixton Academy is even better IIRC.
So, in answer to your question, it does make a difference to me, especially if the act in question is of the ‘rocking out’ variety.
Yes, me too – I saw the aforementioned Bellowhead from a gallery seat, and the terrific view of the entire assembled band was half of the pleasure of being there. At the same smallish venue I’ve seen Taj Mahal, Courtney Pine and countless others with a clear uninterrupted view from a gallery that is only a few yards from the performers, and if my sightline had been impeded it would have hugely detracted from the experience.
A while ago I wrote a post asking where people thought the best seat in the house was, and maintained that it would definitely be a seat as it’s a rare show that benefits from a standing crowd. I still agree with my assertion then that given a free choice I’ll take front and centre in the balcony. I like to have a clear view of everyone and the staging.
I’ll be at a gig at Union Chapel next week, where the downstairs pews suffer from the flat (or near flat) floor problem others have mentioned, and where I always head straight upstairs to the steeply banked central section for the best view. Union Chapel might be a special case due to the atmospheric architecture, but as I value the show as much as the sound it’s the general location I would choose in most venues.
Many years ago, Mrs F and I went to see a matinee show of Mamma Mia at the Palace Theatre in that London. We had front of balcony seats but the rake was seemingly 45 degrees and the safety rail didn’t even come up to my knees. I had a full-on vertigo attack and had to be taken downstairs, where I watched it on one of the fold-down staff seats attached to a column, while the lady who sold ice creams during the interval sat upstairs next to Mrs F.
Many of the side balcony seats at Union Chapel give atrocious sightlines. Some side downstairs seats aren’t great either. Centre downstairs is OK, in my experience except the frontmost, where you can’t see the back of the stage properly.
At a gig in Watford Palace Theatre a few years back I was in the front row, towards the left. First act on was a trio; piano, double bass and drums. Where I was seated the piano* obscured any view of the bassist (could occasionally see the top of her head) and the drummer (could see her left hand and slightly less than half of the kit). When the main act was on, the piano had been moved further back and all of the stage was now visible.
*A supplementary gripe: When a grand piano is onstage for a show it annoys me if it hasn’t been cleaned before the performance.
Smears and handmarks on a black shiny piano are unsightly. A quick polish would not take much time, once it’s in position.
I remember seeing Randy Newman at the Sage Gateshead some years ago and being delighted to get myself a ticket bang in the middle of the hall, three or four rows back. I wasn’t so delighted when he came out and sat down and I discovered that his piano had been placed a couple of yards back from the edge of the stage and that all I could see of him from my premium seat was his shoes and the underside of his piano. Talk about a restricted view – for all I could tell, he might have just pressed a play button and read the paper for the rest of the evening.
Follow up question. If you can’t see them very well but you’ve got a great view of them on a kickarse screen next to the stage. Is that ok?
Pour moi – non.
Nope. That’s like watching telly at home. Can’t stand it. I’m one of those annoying people who will try and get as close to the front as I can. Not by pushing, but ever eagle eye alert for little pockets of emptiness that open up as folk move away. I try to avoid moving right in front of short people, tho’, as they can be vicious, as they bite your shins in an attempt to see anything.
I’m with you. Completely pointless.
Each to their own, but I won’t go to a gig unless I can see the band/singer on the stage. I have suffered enormo-gigs (Dylan, Van Morrison, Stone Roses, U2) where I’ve simply ended up watching the big screen – I’ll never go to one again.
Back in about 2003, Blur decided to do a series a smaller gigs at the same venue, as opposed to one arena show. I saw them at the Manchester Apollo and was able to watch the gig – with a great view – from the bar.
Age and arthritic knees have put an end to standing gigs for me, if I can’t get a good seat – facing the stage not side on, and not too far back, then I won’t go. This does mean I’ve had to pay ridiculous prices for some gigs I really couldn’t miss – 4th row centre stage for Leonard Cohen in Liverpool springs to mind, I’ve bought cheaper cars than the price of those two tickets!
Two instances spring to mind, the first was Lambchop at Cadogan Hall a few years back where there was a lot of huffing & grumbling from those sat in the side stall stage right as Kurt Wagner sat for the entire gig with his back to them. The other was Elvis Costello with the Brodsky Quartet at Birmingham Symphony Hall, I thought I’d bagged good seats as they were row AA just to the left of the stage. EC stood centre stage quite a way back and the Brodsky formed a semi circle around him. I spent the whole gig looking at a violinists arse and only caught a glimpse of Costello on a couple of his rare visits to the front of the stage. So to answer the OP, both are important to me.
Obviously, the most important question is which violinist was it?
Those examples are crap aren’t they. Doesn’t someone think “hmmm, will the people who paid to come actually be able to see?” Evidently not.
I have just booked tickets for Birmingham City Hall – not a frequent venue for me. As I booked, a few rows back from the front, a little bubble appeared “People around you may stand during the show”. I’ve never seen that before.
It may be that, now I have booked, a bubble appears for the row behind saying “A hulking great skinhead in front of you may stand during the show.”
“People behind you might tutt and grumble under their breath.”
Is this for the kind of act whose audiences are likely to stand up? Or do they put this stuff on tickets for orchestras playing Messiaen and ceilidh bands without discrimination?
I can cavort to Karine Polwart, Julie Fowlis and Mary Chapin Carpenter with the best of ’em.
There isn’t a Birmingham City Hall. There is Town Hall, Birmingham or Symphony Hall. Which are you heading to and when?
Think it’s second March (I’m away at the moment) for abovementioned trio.
Think it’s second March (I’m away at the moment) for abovementioned trio.
Correction. 3rd March
Ooo, didn’t know about that one. I’m now booked a few rows behind you.
And it’s at Town Hall.
Excellent. We shall mini mingle beforehand.
If you are at a standing gig, the crowd is dynamic and shifts around, so it is rare to have a good view for the whole gig, but I think the atmosphere is more exciting than with a seated gig. It obviously depends on the type of gig, but I was recently in Manchester to see Nick Cave and was reasonably near the front so got to see him perform up close, which is worth seeing.
At festivals, the crowds are far more dynamic with loads of people forcing their way in or out of the huge crowd. People also talk more and of course there are the flags! At Glastonbury on stages like West Holts (formerly Jazz World) it is easier to get right to the front barrier for a great view. The problem now is the PA set up, where they have massive bass bins in front of the stages which means the sound in the front few rows is frighteningly loud and distorted and incredibly uncomfortable. So at festivals I now hang back which means less atmosphere, more chitchat, but it at least protects my hearing.
For the right kind of gig a concert hall like the Bridgewater or the Birmingham Symphony Hall can be fantastic but I never feel quite as involved as I would if I was standing somewhere near the front.