Just wondering. Ron Sexsmith popped up on my Facebook today – his new album is now streaming on The Guardian. Now Ron is one artist whose every new album I would once have bought unheard. For me record buying always had a big element of instant gratification about it – pop into a record shop and for not too much money walk away with something which gave great pleasure. The streaming thing kinda takes that element away and I find I don’t buy new stuff nearly so much. Once you’ve handled the goods they don’t seem worth so much somehow.
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/23/ron-sexsmith-carousel-one-exclusive-album-stream
But on the plus side, maybe one doesn’t so often buy a pig in a poke?
And for new artists, perhaps I’ll more often buy their albums, having listened and enjoyed them on Spotify or go their gig?
But I’m sure the income doesn’t compare with what they’d have had from CD sales.
You make a good point KFD. I guess new artists benefit most from the exposure. But it’s albums prior to release I’m really talking about – so they are not yet on Spotify either
I used to buy movies/TV series in physical format, this week I have stopped that except for really special releases. I am sourcing what I would have once paid on average £25-30 a week for for a fraction of that.
Music? That`s different I still want my vinyl LPs and Special Edition box sets but what I would once have bought on CD will now be sourced more cheaply.
Oh streaming? Can`t be bothered with it.
I’m not very knowledgeable about the economics of the music business. But for an established artist like Ron S to be streamed in the Guardian, thus exposing his new release to a very appropriate target group, seems to make a lot of commercial sense to me.
Well it didn’t work for Allison Moorer today. I’m a big fan and have a few of her albums but listened to her new one on Spotty today and was a bit underwhelmed, so I won’t be buying it, but it’s a really good question Steer. If you actually buy it you’re maybe more inclined to work on it a bit, and the albums I really love are the slow growers not the immediately accessible ones. Perhaps a quick lis on Spotty while working from home isn’t the best way of getting to know an album.
Sorry to have to break this to you Twang but I am afraid you must have exesive ear wax blocking up your ears. Please follow these simple steps=-
1. Put a few drops of olive oil in each ear before you go to bed
2. Cover them with a small amount of cotton wool.
3. Go to sleep
4. Wake up
5. Play the Allison Moorer album again
I think you will find it sounds great!
Please note I am not a qualified ENT Specialist
However, I am. Let me introduce you to Treebeard and his associates…
I’ll certainly give it another listen but it didn’t seem to have many strong songs, compared to her earlier albums.
No, clearly it’s eaten away a big chunk of their revenues, however there’s no going back and ultimatelty streaming via a service that pays a few pennies is better than someone just taking the download and paying nothing.
It’s also about getting exposure for your music, with the hope of selling some gig tickets and maybe a few paid downloads/CDs/Vinyl and a bit of merch.
It’s one element of the ‘new business model’ these days which leads to what I heard on the radio the other day which was some god-awful sub-Mumford bunch of pricks talking about their band as a ‘brand’ and seemed more excited about their business plan & spreadsheets than their “music”.
If there’s a band I really like I’ll still tend to buy the physical product unheard – I don’t bregrude them a few quid. If it’s a new artist, I’ll audition on YouTube or wherever but I’ll buy if I like or go and see them live – and I buy more than ever (if you combine digital and physical) –
but I guess ‘the kids’ don’t feel the need to do the buying bit.
I wonder if todays youth, who won’t be lugging crates of records and CDs around with them will have a different relationship with music to me? Having not invested the time & money in it – and not having any physical manifestation of music in their bedrooms, are they less discriminate – will it mean as much to them – will it inform their memories or will they just surf a constant stream of barely remembered ‘stuff’ and never really engage with it and just move on to the next 3 minute wonder….and more to the point does it matter? Maybe they’ll go to more gigs and festivals than we did- no bad thing perhaps.
Sub Mumford? How can this be possible?
A bit of a traditionalist when it comes to music. I don’t stream and I rarely listen to Spotify. Chiefly for the reason that if I did I would probably buy less of the cd’s that I am currently buying. From a financial standpoint that would make good sense but from an enjoyment level I would feel that I am missing out. Twang makes a good point about music growing after a first listen – the latest albums by both Gretchen Peters and Steve Earle have improved with repeated listening – if I had have relied on Spotify they wouldn’t have got a second listen. Radio is still the medium that introduces me to new music I am unaware of and I am happy enough with that.
I’ve never streamed or Spotified or ipodded. I don’t listen to music radio either. A massive amount of the vinyl and CDs I buy these days are second hand or re-issues. Very rarely do I get interested enough in a new artist. I think the last ‘new’ one who made a significant impact on me was Sufjan Stevens. I bought his Illinois album ‘blind’ on the strength of a review.
But I realize I may not be typical…
Coincidentally, Sufjan’s new album is also being streamed on the Guardian site: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/23/sufjan-stevens-carrie-lowell-album-stream
More akin to Seven Songs than it is to what he has done recently. It might be another new one for you Eddie
Thanks Steer. Yes, I was aware he had a new one coming out. I’ll probably get the CD.
It’s hard to imagine how it could ever support anyone in making a living. A couple of thousand Spotify plays has made us the grand total of about a fiver, for instance. A further illustration is this: our song “Rome Burns” got licensed for a video, hosted on YouTube. 86,000 plays of it. Cool.
We made $31 USD via digital mechanical royalties.
It’s lucky we both have jobs, and it’s lucky that making music is effectively our hobby. We lose money hand over fist doing it, but only the same way we would if we played golf or collected porcelain or something. We end up with songs we love playing and records we’re proud of, because we can afford to do it.
In many ways it reminds me of internships in law firms or the City: opportunities go to people who can afford to work for free. Not sure how anyone who can’t is expected to record, let alone distribute.
(FWIW, analysis of our sales shows that although iTunes is much the most profitable channel for us, we sell no volume through them at all. All our volume is done through Spotify, for which we receive next to nothing. So our next EP is going to be distributed free because we don’t recoup our distribution costs if we go through Spotify and iTunes.)
Wow. $31? That’s insane. So you could land a million views and still only get paid circa $500?
Incidentally, unless law firms have changed a huge amount in the four years I’ve been out of private practice, they don’t offer internships, and certainly not low paid ones. In fact, I never came across a single intern while working for law firms.
The media sector, on the other hand, is rife with them, low paid, unpaid and otherwise.
How does eMusic work for you? That’s where I bought you’re album. Do you get decent returns on this?
Thanks for the breakdown Bob. It’s the first time I’ve seen figures in black and white like that. It also explains why so many musicians who make it into the public consciousness are from well heeled families.
@disappointmentchoir what about BandCamp? I was under the impression they didn’t take cut of your sales so if someone pays £5 the artist gets £5 don’t they??
Enlightening and depressing to hear the inside story, DC:
Welcome belatedly back, Bob
A question – when streaming thru a hi fi system. What source do you use?
Does a phone provide satisfactory sound ? Do you have a dedicated tablet ?
Does the source matter for the sound ?
I only stream music to see if I am interested enough to buy it – in CD format, so I tend to listen from my phone or laptop via a bluetooth speaker. If I want HiFi then I revert to my CDs. Thing is I rarely buy new stuff as there is so much good old stuff for a fraction of the price.
I use Airplay and either my iTunes library or a phone or iPad. I have Airplay in my amp and it also allows me to use Spotify. Or I can send it from the phone. Or stream my iTunes library. I can’t remember the last time i played a physical cd in the house. But I have music available in more rooms than I have every had before. I love the future.
@leedsboy and @dr-volume – EMusic and Bandcamp both pay a decent proportion (more than decent in Bandcamp’s case) but have next to no market penetration, so although we get better value from them, we can’t shift any volume.
@bingo-little – apologies for the assumption re. internships. Maybe I should’ve said accountancy practices and management consultancies (both of whom I applied for holiday internships at when I was at uni and had no idea what I wanted to do).
Admittedly, we’re a vanishingly tiny concern compared to many bands; our main demographic is the valuable “people who know us” sector. But still, we stream in the low thousands and make sweet Football Association for it.
Ah, no worries at all – it’s not often I get to defend the honour of law firms!
I see, so it strikes me that for all this supposed digital utopia, the old record label system still rules as they’re the only ones with the marketing clout to get sufficient sales off any online services.
I’d be curious to know how much a modestly successful indie bands makes from iTunes, CDs and limited edition vinyl alone
Yeah, that’s exactly it, Dr V. It’s not the selling that’s hard – actually bringing your material to market is a piece of piss. It’s whether or not you can make anyone take any notice. Radio is still king in this regard, at least for the sort of music we make.
I think the only way to make any more than pocket change is probably one of the following:
1) get signed and let the label pay a radio plugger, as in the familiar model.
2) be really quite niche but gig CONSTANTLY so that your niche audience sees a lot of you.
3) get unbelievably lucky.
So, really, the new model is very similar to the old model. The only thing that’s changed is that the market is now saturated with music which is recorded and mastered to an extraordinarily high standard, which once was only achievable with a record deal. The laptop on which I’m now typing was the machine on which our entire debut album was recorded, mixed and mastered, entirely by us, without entering a pro studio. It’s probably not an absolutely pro quality job, but it’s unrecognisable from a C90 made on a Tascam 4-track, which is all we’d have been able to afford 20 years ago.
Everything sounds pretty good now, which makes it all the harder to stick out.
I’d be very interested to hear how much The Handsome Family made from one of their old songs being chosen for True Detective. T Bone Burnett chooses the music for the show and I’d like to think he’s making sure the musicians get a decent fee.
Fatz – ‘sync’ fees (synchronization use on TV/film/adverts) are the last great gold mine for musical artistes. Generally, usage has to be specifically agreed with the rights holder – unlike streaming etc – and fees negotiated. Lots of people, I believe, did very well out of the ‘Greys Anatomy’ effect, whereby seemingly every TV drama in the US and many in the UK now seem to require two minutes at the end where people look out into the middle distance while some downbeat singer-songwriter thing plays.
Radio play is another potentially decent revenue stream. I’m only a hobby musician but I receive three figure cheques from IMRO (the Irish PRS equivalent) every so often, solely based on occasional radio plays for tracks and some digital stuff I don’t really understand. The music in question has generally got to said radio people simply by me posting off copies blind to addresses/names at BBC and RTE easily accessible online.
Here’s what seems to be a sunshine story about a musician, Phil Manzanera,, getting asome extra income.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/phil-manzanera-on-jay-z-kanye-west-and-the-riff-that-changed-his-life-10128766.html