Our former Word Blog colleague has got himself in a spot of bother. Yesterday he tweeted a photo of a chimpanzee in a suit and captioned it ‘Royal Baby Leaves Hospital’
Interpretations of this seem to fall into two groups:
1. The lifelong Millwall fan is obviously a racist
2. The cheeky chappie man of the people did a racist thing, but isn’t a racist.
Dan threw in a third explanation, which is that he never made the connection between a day-old mixed-race baby and a chimp, because he doesn’t have a ‘diseased mind.’ That’s fair, if you accept that despite being a massive footie fan and pundit, he never realised what all the monkey noises and banana-throwing was about. In a subsequent tweet, he added a couple more theories; 4. it was a joke and 5. I had cancer once, you know.
My guess is, if you liked him before yesterday you’ll still like him now and if you didn’t he’s guilty as sin. And if he doesn’t lose his job he’ll have Spurs to thanks for giving people something else to get excited about. Thoughts, anyone?
Of course he isn’t a racist. It was thoughtless and stupid. He has now apologised.
We’ve all done silly things and regretted them. He isn’t a UKIP or Farage wanker. They are the real problem.
Woops, he didn’t think that one out too well, did he? I can sort of buy the excuse of innocence, and live the sort of life where I still call people who do silly things monkeys, almost unconsciously. Sometimes I have said it about friends who are brown or black, and haven’t thought it wrong, as I apply equally to white and yellow. But I am increasingly becoming aware I possibly oughtn’t, for fear of misrepresentation. I too think the hideous fawning over this new baby begs ridicule and can see how Baker thought a baby chimp might get a message across. A baby piglet might have been my preferred option, but I don’t suppose that would have been all that acceptable to the eggshells we have to tread.
Mind you, the pictures of Prince Idon’tevenknowhisnameorcare, on his 3rd/4th/5th(??) birthday repel me more, poor little bastard, all brilliantined hair and scraped side parting and 1950s clothes at his age. Doesn’t stand a chance, does he?
I’m a big fan and he’s been posting those old style chimp/monkey photos for years. He even had “Chimpanzees dressed as famous people with fairground music” segment on his show. Personally I think he saw the photo,didn’t make “the connection” then deleted it very quickly when it was pointed out to him.
Now compare that to Boris Johnson etc but as someone pointed out “What if it had been Jim Davidson who had posted it? Well one has a record of racist comments,jokes,characters etc and the other one hasn’t . I’ve never heard ,seen anything remotely racist,homophobic from him in all the years I’ve been listening,reading his stuff.
I think your last paragraph is right,Chiz but I’m in one of his Facebook fan groups and it’s full of his friends and a couple of people who work very closely with him and their opinion has almost been unanimous ,He’s not a racist but what the hell was he thinking?
Spot on @Sour-Crout
Hear hear. I’ll add that he dug a deeper hole by saying that anyone accusing him of racism had a ‘diseased mind’. Even if he didn’t see the potential for offence before, surely he did after? All that said his being sacked seems like a huge over-reaction.
He’s also bleating about being his turn in the barrel, “pompous faux gravity”, could hear knees knocking etc. The thing about racisim is it’s not what you meant, it’s how it is received. It suggests that whilst he didn’t mean it he thinks the reaction is unreasonable. The Johnson defence in other words. Surely the best reaction is to apologise for any offence caused and STFU. I suspect there’s some tolerance going on because people like him which wouldn’t be in evidence if this was some UKIP MP.
“The thing about racisim is it’s not what you meant, it’s how it is received.” Is it fuck.
Everyone is entitled to make stupid observations and then retract them; we’re not on Crackerjack here, trying not to drop a cabbage, with the klaxon giving final and irrevocable judgement as the veg hits the deck, we’re just rolling along as flawed humans making it up as we go.
No-one has a divine right to be offended, and in the Twattersphere, even less right to be offended on behalf of someone else.
But the Twattersphere is chock full of morons waiting to shout “Look, sir, please sir, he’s a ‘cos he said “.
And Danny Baker knows that. All he’s guilty of is not paying attention. If you or I were called out for a similar offence I guess our protestations might be cheaply characterised as bleating too.
Just giving you the official definition old chap.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/racist-and-religious-hate-crime/
It may claim to be official, but it’s still bollocks. It puts the determination of intent in the hands of the person claiming victimhood. Which is nonsense.
Praise be for common sense amongst all this shite. I am sick of it all – complete twattery.
Broadly I agree with you but I suspect it is like the cycling laws in Holland where the motorist is always at fault if there’s an accident with a cyclist. It makes people be more careful.
What!
The only reason I’ve been hanging around here all these years is waiting for Peter Glaze to do 21st Century Schizoid Man!
You can stick yer ruddy cabbage!
But the internet changes things. Once you post something on the internet, you can never retract it. You can apologise but it will always be there.
It’s not that hard to figure out but it seems difficult for some people to prioritise this over being perceived as funny/satirical/clever/tough etc.
Wasn’t this one of the outputs of McPherson?
Probably not being racist, or at least not consciously.
Suspect he was pissed when he tweeted and his brain was not fully engaged. If it was engaged at all.
A bit like mine was when I downloaded the second volume of his memoirs to my Kindle. Still haven’t read it, a few years down the line, and I probably never will, life being short and that.
The puritans are in charge now. First they came for those unfortunate enough not to know where the latest identarian and politically correct lines were. And now it’s people you actually like. The glee with which this will have been filed away by the offence archaeologists is something to behold. To be pulled out whenever DB says something disagreeable, then no argument is required, just the recall that he did this, so his views carry no meaning. It’s reprehensible and dehumanising, but then it’s no less vile a tactic when deployed against political enemies with inconvenient or contrary opinions.
I broadly agree however making racist jokes is never ok and a bit of thought before action is never a bad idea either. The so called right to offend is balanced by a right to give offensive dickheads what’s coming to them. I’m speaking generally now, not about DB.
Do I think he’s racist? I doubt it. Do I think the professionally offended care? Not in the slightest. Do I think this’ll be used against him as nauseum to shut him down, delegitimise anything he says and therein dehumanise and deplatform him whenever it suits? Of course. It happens every day on Twitter.
Hmmm…I think he did a pretty good job of ‘dehumanising’, whatever the intent.
I’ve got no time for people trawling through old tweets to try and find something to drum up offence over – what happened to Phil Neville springs to mind. But if you broadcast yourself to the world on Twitter, Instagram etc then it’s probably best not to be a tit, and apply a little bit of thought before pressing send. Just ask Roseanne Barr – it seems being an edgy cotrarian and Ambien don’t mix.
As a general principle I think people should be held to account for their public pronouncements, whether it’s Boris’s calculated dog whistling about post boxes or Corbyn’s forewords on anti-semeitc tracts. They want public office so they should answer to it. I heard some UKIP wannabe whining on the radio yesterday that all he was being asked about was why his party continued to descibe fellow candidte Carl Benjamin’s tweets about rape as “satire”. I hope it’s the only question he and anyone else standing for them are ever asked.
He seems to drink a lot and is regularly pissed when he tweets – on this occasion, he’s been called out and has apologised. By his own admission thoughtless, but not malicious. That’s not to say he’s a paragon of virtue. He supports Millwall after all and he spouts a lot of nonsense at times, but on balance he’s still good value.
His tweets finally turned me from a fan to losing interest. When he’s’ on form and making an effort he can be very funny, but his narcissism and envy seem to come to the fore quite often – his endless hammering of Glenn Hoddle during televised matches seemed much more about his jealousy than Hoddle’s’ dullness. The few times Baker’s been given a shot at doing footy related TV work he was a breath of fresh air so it’s s shame he didn’t get more work – but he so often seems to piss on the hand that’s feeding him I’m not that surprised.
Quite agree. He’s become tiresome and this monkey thing is going to tip a lot of people over the edge. Already has to judge by the flak he’s getting on twitter now.
Flak is one of the things that Twitter seems to be about. One of the reasons that I don’t tweet anymore. People pile onto whoever is being targeted, regardless of facts or their actual knowledge of what has occurred to start a particular twitterstorm.
DB has acted stupidly and rightly apologised straight away, but he’s done himself no favours by slagging his accusers after the fact. It plainly goes against his nature (and his enormous ego) to STFU and take it when he’s in the wrong.
Never seen the point of Twitter. This thread just reinforces my view.
Very good for going a-hounding in mobs, with your digital pitchfork.
It’s just a broadcast medium. The problem comes in what people chose to broadcast.
It get it has moved on from its original ‘here’s my dinner picture’ stuff but it seems too labour intensive. I have the BBC news app that send me notifications and ESPN cricket and nothing else. because I am not bothered!
It must say something to me about my life!
I don’t follow any real people, just news feeds and commentators. It’s the comments where the lairyness happens.
Wot no NWOBHM app? must say I’¡m surprised…Hope you are well,Uncle
Although registered some years ago, I only really started getting into it a few weeks ago, when I realized I could set it to split feeds into less of an overall torrent. Mostly, I follow you lot, and what a lot of entertaining stuff you do tweet about!
All the commentariat, journalists and public opinion-spouters I don’t follow, but stick into themed groups (pro-Brexit, anti-Brexit, satire, etc).
Oooh I didn’t know you could split it like that. That’s what put me off it – I registered and followed a few people, but it was too much of a flood of stuff to keep track of.
@Arthur-Cowslip. I was in the same boat as you – just too many diverse tweets to keep up with. ‘Lists’ are what you want. It should be quite intuitive to set up.
Been getting tired of his schtick for a while now (although his 606 and Radio 5 morning shows were amongst the finest radio shows ever) but he apologised instantly, it’s a “joke” he has used many times before and although a bit early in the evening to be pissed he had already posted a picture of that night’s beer.
ps I liked the explanation on how they picked the baby’s name
1. Favourite American cartoon character
2. Favourite Star Wars actor
3. Favourite cake
4. Favourite castle
In my case, the world has been spared young master Deputy Dawg Carrie Battenburg Dunstanburgh.
Baby Deputy Dawg!
How does he smell?
Musky!
Promoting him to Deputy at birth might seem a bit previous, but I’m sure he’ll grow into the role – at least until somebody shoots him and blames Bob Marley.
One of the (as Bob himself might describe it) tribulations of being a cartoon character is an inescapable nominative determinism.
Richard is an innocent enough name, but when, ab ovo, you are the newest of the Dastardly clan, what other defence is there than “I’m not bad, I’m just drawn that way..” (*twirls moustache*)
I saw it as a continuation of his “chimps dressed as…” comedic theme. I am convinced that he would have done the same if it was William & Kate’s latest sprog. He must have made 1000s of gags over the years and this was a lapse in judgement.
A long time ago I was challenged at work for commenting on a very Jewish sounding name I saw on a list. I would have said the same if it was Patrick Murphy or Jock McTavush – but I learned my lesson.
My first thought on reading that was “So what?”.
It was only with reading on, that the mixed race connection was made.
I guess that makes me as much a racist as DB.
In the interests of full disclosure, I did have an exchange with a friend on WhatsApp about another royal parasite we are going to have to pay for.
It is a remarkably stupid and insensitive thing to do and you have to question his judgement. I find that sort of racism so alien I always struggle to believe people actually think like that. But people do and maybe he did.
Agree with that @Twang.
I dont @Bartleby. I think he was totally oblivious to the reaction the ‘gag’ provoked exactly because he is not racist
Therein lies some of the problem. It is entirely possible that people can be castigated because a comment has been misconstrued. Unfortunately by the time the accused has had time to address the accuser and explain that their comment had been misunderstood it is too late. The shit storm has already taken place.
Hellish for comedians as they have to be ultra careful these days – puts an end to spontaneity.
That’s the bit I agree with @SteveT. Like you, I think he was likely oblivious. As above, I think the hounding of those who stray across moving red lines is the worse sin than innocently – or naively – posting something regrettable.
@Bartleby – case in point – seems I misunderstood your post and we are in fact in agreement. One thing is for sure judging by the number of responses on this post it is of greater interest to us all seemingly than the music posts which I assume were the reason for the site in the first place.
I’m only here for the racist baby hating threads…
Surely we all hate racist babies?
Do you know any racist babies Dad? You hum it son, I’ll play it.
I’m not sure I do (agree with Twang, that is). It’s the sort of joke I might make. (Actually I wouldn’t, but only because I’m blessed with a more sophisticated and mature sense of humour, not on racial grounds.)
It is, as Twang says, hard for normal folk to accept that there are people who actually think in those terms, and for people who are detached from the football/tabloid sphere it’s easy to forget about their idiocies.
It would never have occurred to me in a million years to see DB’s photo as a racist comment if it hadn’t been labelled as such by others. I would have continued to see it as an insult to the Royals for being the Royals. Basically it seems one has to think as a racist would in order avoid treading the same path. And surely the less the racist one is, the less easily that ability might come to one?
“It would never have occurred to me in a million years to see DB’s photo as a racist comment if it hadn’t been labelled as such by others.”
Come off it Gary. I suspect it might not take that long for the penny to drop.
Unless someone else had labelled it racist, no, I don’t agree.
As I say, I am only very rarely made aware that that mentality actually exists. The fact that it’s not part of my world might well be ignorance on my part (and perhaps DB should be more aware than me), but if so it’s an ignorance I think I might prefer to maintain.
I think most people posting here can see that DB’s tweet is racist. Don’t think that’s in question.
You know that Meghan Markle is mixed race and you see a photo of two adults holding hands with a besuited monkey, captioned Royal baby leaves hospital, and that doesn’t trigger any kind of a response related to racism? OK, well fair enough.
It’s very specifically the “monkey” insult that is not something that would occur to me. I pretty much forget its existence as a thing. I generally take little interest in sports news, but I have very occasionally heard or read headlines about it being used at football matches, plus against the first black politician here in Italy, and they’re about the only times that particular insult has reared its hideous head in my world. Certainly not what would spring to mind just looking at DB’s photo.
Monkey chants are only sports news when they happen at televised matches involving “important” clubs.
I had to read this thread to get what it’s all about, and yes, I only know Danny Baker from leafing through old editions of the NME. The “monkey/racist” connection would certainly never occur to me. I guess you have to be a UK football fan to be offended.
And, why is it necessary to know that someone in the Royal Family (not the pop group) is “mixed race” – whatever that means. German Yellow Press certainly never mentioned it. In fact, someone on the radio commented on that “presenting the baby to the press” non-event with “They would have got more attention if they named their baby Kevin. Or Adolf.”
The turgid, myopic infantilism of the British press is something you have to have grown up with to fully, er, appreciate.
No matter what progress is made with social attitudes in society at large, they remain in the 1950s. The British 1950s at that – white, sexually repressed and with a completely warped Anglocentric view of history.
Some people mourn the death of print media. I say bring it on. We’ll never grow up as a nation until they’re gone.
@nickduvet sorry but I have to completely disagree with you. I don’t think it is at all obvious that the comment was racist because I don’t think DB had any intent to be racist. So every time someone uses the word Chimp or monkey in a derogatory term then they are being racist? Complete bollocks. I call my son a chimp all the time when we engage in banter.
I think he was more likely being derogatory to the Royal Family which I know from previous posts that several of the Massive would have no issue in agreeing with him.
Two distinct points – is the picture with that caption racist? Self-evidently yes.
Do you think the person who created the image didn’t know what they were doing?
Is Danny Baker a racist? That’s for you to decide.
I agree, in this case it’s obvious. Down at Millwall he is probably oblivious about the banana throwing and monkey noises*. Bantz innit. No sense of humour?
*Actually I am sure he is. Which makes it worse really.
Since it took me a while to make the connection myself, I’m buying his explanation. But still: ouch!
Of course it is racist. Would he have tweeted the same picture for one of Will’s white babies? What is the joke here if not a racist one? How did a picture of a monkey enter his head when thinking about the new royal baby?
Agree. Imagine if Boris Johnson had done it. There would be outrage.
But Johnson has form in this area, Baker doesn’t.
Not defending the tweet, which was stupid and unthinking but do we really think that DB is racist?
Yes, for about ten minutes. Then everybody would carry on talking about him as the next prime minister. He’s good telly, y’see.
I’m not trying to be all ‘Oh, I’m colourblind’ about it, but I only ever remember that Meghan is mixed race when I’m reminded about it — which is usually by the press.
Yeah me too and to be fair the photos of the new family addition suggest the baby is pretty white which should please all and sundry.
God forbid we have some real news to address like Brexit or the situation in Iran or the US-China trade war.
What the baby looks like is of no relevance to the racists. They follow the “not one drop of blood” line on race. Which is of course interesting because if you go back far enough we are all descendants of black africans, so that is the whole human race. And of course many of them are also racist about Poles, who are just as white as I am. (Literally – I look like I am of Slavic descent)
Meghan throws the Mail into a tailspin because she is Royal (which they love), American (which they are conflicted about) and mixed race (which they really don’t like). So Danny Baker is a godsend – they can have their cake and eat it with his idiocy.
I’m fairly certain, Tiggerlion, but the first thing that entered my head when I read the first sentence of the OP above was that this was just another of his ‘Monkeys dressed as…’ jokes and that there was no intention to introduce racism, conscious or otherwise. Like others have said here, the mixed race angle had to be pointed out to me. I don’t think I’ve ever suspected DB of anything like that.
Another of his ‘Monkey dressed as…’?????
So. He does have form.
No, I don’t think he does. It was a part of his radio show that was supposedly funny and meant to be absurd. Guilty of being almost totally unfunny and fairly transparently programm filler but now’t to do with racism.
I’m sorry I don’t understand.
if it is some kind of in joke, he’s been very foolish assuming people will understand the context. I suspect the world isn’t interested but will remember him as the sleb who posted a picture of Meghan’s baby as a monkey.
Apologies, Tiggs – you are correct – If you are not a regular listener to his show, then off course the context would not be obvious. It has been a semi-regular piece on his show where he introduced ‘Monkeys dressed as .. (enter celebrity name here) over a soundtrack of fairground music. Celebrity names would be totally random, by gender, colour, race. More than a bit silly, intended as a piece of surrealism I would think, but never offensive. Racism would never have occurred to me when hearing it and was, I’m certain, never intended.
exactly,He’s been doing this for years because he thinks Chimps as humans is funny. One of his my popular bits is a song called “Chimpanzee riding on a segway” . Not one complaint about that. I honestly thought it was just another chimp joke. I ,like others have said,had no idea of Ms Markel’s ethnicity. I honestly don’t think Danny made the connection either.
Given the attention that aspect of the marriage was given in all sections of the media (radio, TV, all stripes of newspapers and magazines, all social media platforms) it must be only a small minority of people that are unaware of it.
OTOH, to look at her, it’s by no means obvious that she’s of mixed ethnicity.
All babies look like little chimps when born, or is there something superhuman about your royals? FFS
Maybe. But how many people tweet pictures of white babies as chimps?
My grand-daughter was simply gorgeous from minute one. Not that some chimps aren’t gorgeous.
Hasn’t he posted chimp pics in all manner of circumstances for many years?
I guess I miss the whole mixed race sensitivity as it really hasn’t been raised much down here.
Max the Dog has explained the context, which I, like the vast majority of the population, wasn’t aware of. Without that context, posting a picture of the new royal as a monkey appears blatantly racist. This tweet will get far more attention across the world than anything else he’s done.
Well I suspect he figures his twitter followers are his followers, know him, his history and get his humour.
The condemnation would appear to be from those who have none of these attributes.
Lot of sense there as usual Junior…
I’m not on Twitter. I used to enjoy his writing in the NME and when 606 first started, so cannot claim to know him or his history. As for his sense of humour….
QED
‘Attributes’ stung, though.
I grasped for a more neutral word Tig. Characteristics? Features?
Characteristics is fine. Thanks
bang on,Junior
Sacked by Radio 5 live!
It’s PG gone mad.
It took me a moment but I got it eventually … v good.
It’s the (bad) taste!
Meghan drinks Tea! Burn the Bartleby racist!
Ah but would your whites pass the Daz Doorstep Challenge?
Shock! Horror! Face palm! I forgot all about that shameful stuff!
Quite obv. DB is a rampant racist of long standing and should be burned alive after a lengthy verbal flaying from the great unwashed sanctimoniously self-righteous tracky-bottomed sofa surfers of the Twattersphere.
He was hiding in plain site all along with his ‘whiter than white’ schtick.
I’ve never found him funny and don’t get what others see in him, BUT if it’s a case that this ‘chimps as people’ thing has been a running joke for him since God was a lad, it’s not quite the same as doing what Roseanne Barr did that time.
i see the BBC has sacked him. Erm, OK, now if they could do something about Farage constantly getting airtime, that’d be great as well.
Back in the eighties a mate, in London, taught at a multicultural school and said a student, of colour, was out of her tree. He was suspended, sanctioned, put through the wringer. As a side project he ran a specialist African music label reissuing hard to get stuff. Never heard him utter anything remotely racist.
I like him, but after reading his books it is all a bit “me me me”. Don’t think he is racist, and he will probably bounce back (again). Used to listen to his 5 Live show (podcast) every week, but stopped some time ago, as while he was always entertaining I could find better ways of spending a couple of hours. Will the TV show based on his books go too?
Oops that was not a reply to JW.
WIne and twitter, not a good combination. Almost certainly not intentional but social media is unforgiving, and he does spend quite a bit of time there.
I’ve been an admirer of his for many years especially the books. That’ll be it for him on the BBC but there are developments in the podcast world that I suspect he’ll be leading. All very sad, but the BBC had no choice.
I recall once speaking about football with a Leeds fan, which is never easy. He possessed the required level of arrogance to qualify as a Leeds fan and was basically telling me his team were the bestest in the world and that my team is shite. I then attempted to make an ironic joke poking fun of Leeds fans” (and Barnsley fans at the time, let’s be honest) racism. However, I was quite a few pints in and made a mess of the joke, the ironic element completely falling flat.
I never thought any more of it until I heard the next day that he had to be talked out of kicking me to pieces, and he was a big lad. Totally passed me by that he was mixed race and whilst I had retreated to consider whether my rubbish attempted joke had worked (it most definitely hadn’t) I clearly didn’t make the explanation/apology that I should have done. I was mortified the next day when reminded of it, but by then he was not interested in any explanation or apology. I never managed to get as far as telling him my brother was mixed race and that what he took as being the meaning of what I said was as far as could be from what I intended or what I believe. It was horrible and is something that I’ve never been stupid enough to repeat.
Ironically I find it hard talking to Barnsley fans. Because I never visit Barnsley 😉
I would say there’ll be some of us in Leeds next season, but not at those prices!
Struggling to feel sorry for him, I’m afraid.
It was a deeply unpleasant thing to do in the first place, and it’s hard to believe a media-savvy Millwall fan wouldn’t have a clue about how this would be interpreted.
And his line “Also, guessing it was my turn in the barrel” convinces me the thing he’s most sincere about is his victimhood.
I’m similarly finding it hard to feel sorry. Third time? He’s clearing not learning from his mistakes. Plus he can conveniently blame “the suits”, as that means he doesn’t have to blame himself
For me, there was no racial intent, so an apology should be sufficient. It seems very unfair that he’s lost his job.
He does other things too. Probably now got the big story for vol. 4 of his autobiography.
Sacking him seems harsh, although I’m not a fan of his. It looks like an honest mistake.
Not sure if people agree, but since he came back from his serious illness, he has a kind of care-free arrogance – which I understand is him relishing life, but it doesn’t come across correctly.
I found myself abandoning his radio show. The thing that made the show was his audience calling in, but recently he seems to be constantly cutting them off before they can finish a sentence, as if he fears being upstaged by them.
I really know nothing about Danny Baker but now that he is gone presumably we can continue to rely on the DM its ilk for continuing dog whistle racism.
More than anything else, it’s just not funny is it? And whilst I believe he didn’t mean it to be racist, he’s really crap at apologising and shutting up isn’t he?
Looks like a decent enough apology to me
“Opened door, grinning Mail hack.
“Do you think black people look like monkeys?”
Any other time you’d knock someone right on their arse for saying that.
No mate. Gag pic. Posh baby chimp. Alerted to circs. Appalled. Deleted. Apologised.”
All this fuss and guess what Nigel Farage is on Question Time AGAIN – priorities people, priorities..
It was his first response that did for him. He said he didn’t see the offence himself because he hasn’t got a diseased mind , but it got some people whipped up, and people had to tell him why it was offensive, etc. What he should have said was “Shit! I’ve just realised what that looks like – not what I meant at all, have deleted, sorry sorry sorry.” That might have just about have saved him, but, perhaps being a glass or two into the evening already, he decided to take on the offence vultures. Bad move.
That’s it in my mind. Say sorry. Don’t then say anything that looks like you’re not sorry just misunderstood. He is just a bit too full of himself for him to ever feel he was wrong – sometimes right, sometimes wrong but always certain as he would say.
“Well, he’s such a character isn’t he! Like BoJo and Ress Mogg! Aren’t they hilarious? And look at the ratings!”
(later) “Whoop! They’ve been elected and have privatised the BBC. Got 10p, mate?”
How is him losing his job news, anyway? Along with Martin Kelner, he’s been fired more times than Prince Philip’s 12-bore (hur)
Don’t believe he’s racist, but that was brainless and the sacking was justified. Just think what the reaction would be if somebody even suspected to have vaguely racist leanings had posted that; there would have been an outcry from all lefty/liberal types to thrown them on the dumper. And I don’t see him getting a regular job in broadcasting or the media again.
I’d have given him the benefit of the doubt had I not witnessed his disgraceful response to the Boston Marathon bombing. In the immediate aftermath he tweeted something along the lines of that they had earned it through years of sponsoring the IRA. People seemed to cut him slack along the lines of too much alcohol on board but it stank of racism to me as an Irish man.
FFS – an amusing (well at least to some) chappie makes a mistake, takes him all of two hours to say “Bloody hell that was stupid, sorry” and he gets sacked the next morning. Let me repeat – Nigel Proper Racist Scumbag Farage is on Question Time for the zillionth time tonight and sanctimonious dickheads instead get themselves in a lather over a bloody Tweet. FFS !!
I should also add, as I said before, Baker’s schtick over these past few years has got all too jaded for me but at his best he was God’s gift to radio. Priorities people, priorities…
Further – routines about the Royals being “German Really” (boo! Nazis! sausages!) are pretty routine among the lazy who are presumably putting the boot in here.
@Moose: a rock of sense, as always.
https://youtu.be/8Hhk8VVS2AU
Yebbut.
Shoeing yer Royal Family is generally mostly acceptable as it’s perceived as “punching upwards” against the privileged, and about their Germanic heritage even more so, as it’s a commentary on how daft it is to get all patriotic about these human cuckoos.
Mr Baker’s pic is offensive irrespective of whether the couple are next or not in line to any throne.
Chiz is right: he needed to step outside himself and – in internet terms – see what he’s done there. Then immediately hold up his hands and delete it.
The problem is the medium – incidents like this will keep happening as long as trigger finger twittery exists..
..and GODDAMMIT chimpanzees are not monkeys.
Glad you said that, I was struggling to find a joke about apes, lest I offend anyone for some unfathomable reason and immediately get found guilty of a racist hate crime.
Apeist
“Then immediately hold up his hands and delete it.”
Isn’t that what he did?
Yes he did, but then made his ‘apology’ a passive-aggressive, self-as-victim non-apology.
His initial apology “Sorry my gag pic of the little fella in the posh outfit has whipped some up. Never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased. Soon as those good enough to point out it’s possible connotations got in touch, down it came. And that’s it.”
Fiar enough. But that wasn’t it. “Once again. Sincere apologies for the stupid unthinking gag pic earlier. Was supposed to be joke about Royals vs circus animals in posh clothes but interpreted as about monkeys & race, so rightly deleted. Royal watching not my forte. Also, guessing it was my turn in the barrel.”
With the “barrel” comment he undermines what went before. Now he’s hard done by.
Now we have “The call to fire me… was a masterclass of pompous faux-gravity. Took a tone that said I actually meant that ridiculous tweet and the BBC must uphold blah blah blah. Literally threw me under the bus. Could hear the suits knees knocking. #Fuckem”
No Danny – you threw yourself.
Literally.
DB needed to speak to his media management, spin doctor before typing that instead of just saying what he thought.
No, he just needed to shut up. Which of course he can’t.
Sanctimonious dickheads are automatically given Twitter accounts. There are a lot of them.
I’ve been listening to, reading, watching and following DB since I was a teenager and there’s no way he’s racist.
This was, however, grossly misjudged and I don’t see how the BBC had any real choice but to sack him. We’ve all seen stuff like this that WAS racist and then the perpetrators try to pass it off as joke so while I don’t believe it in his case, and I’m sure his apology was completely genuine, it can’t be allowed to stand there.
Maybe a suspension rather than cancelling the program?
An interesting issue.
Twang and Nick, I’m afraid I’m going to have to agree with SteveT, Gary and Fatima here. I honestly don’t agree the joke is “self-evidently” racist. I don’t think the penny would have dropped with me unless it had been pointed out like this. I had a vague awareness that Megan Markle is “mixed race”, but I don’t think I would ever have associated that with a chimpanzee without it being pointed out to me.
Maybe because I’m not into football I don’t know about this kind of banter? I’m kind of aware that racist football supporters will sometimes make monkey chants and throw bananas at black players, but I don’t think I would have seen the connection of that kind of thuggish behaviour to this particular joke.
So I’m minded to conclude that Danny Baker was innocent here.
That said, yeah he should probably just have apologised briefly then shut up. I do feel sympathy for him, because the temptation to rise to it and try to defend yourself must be overpowering in this kind of situation.
The good thing is I think I’ve learned something here. I genuinely was unaware “monkey” jokes were a potential problem area. Now I know, and I won’t be as thoughtless as Danny Baker here.
I think he did something racist unintentionally then didn’t have the sense to apologise and STFU. I still struggle to see why he thought is was funny to depict the baby royal as a monkey but there you go. I’m a humourless git at the best of times.
Chimpanzee!
That’s right. He’s a humourless chimpanzee at the best of times
Troglodyte! Pithecanthropus! Bashi-Bazouk!
Do you ‘ave a leesance for that minkee?
Does your dog bite?
Eurrrggghh,..the eullld Posting-Of-The-Youtube-Clip ploy…
Twang – you are wondering why it is funny in the first place (assuming no racist intent)? I don’t know – I kind of think chimpanzees are just naturally funny. Aren’t they?
That was the whole gist of those PG Tips adverts, no? My instinct upon seeing a chimp dressed in human clothes is to chuckle. Same as with a dog!
Anyway, I understand where you are coming from and I respect that. It’s naivety on my part really.
The chimps on tv (e.g. in the PG Tips ad) are all jolly little toddlers. An adult chimp will happily rip your face off. Nothing funny about that..
Away from the camera, those chimps didn’t lead happy lives.
This is from 2014:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-23508215
It’s a chimp’s life in show biz, alright – the males used in making Lancelot Link, Secret Chimp were castrated to make them easier to handle during shooting.
You hear that, Val Kilmer?
FFS – Nigel Farage !!! Oh sorry we are supposed to be discussing the latest Genesis Outtakes. Jeezus Mary and The Other Ones
After Question Time airs tonight I’ll start a Farage thread just for you! 🙂
So as I raise the lid of my centurial hamper and sip weak Ribena from the rarely-awarded ‘Thermos of Topping The Most Read of The Month in Less Than 12 Hours From Launch’, I ask myself; what have we learned?
On balance I’d say most people agree with assumption 2 in the OP – that Baker did something racist, but isn’t actually a racist. However, what we’ve learned is that there’s no functional difference, in terms of public opprobrium, between assumptions 1 and 2. No benefit of the doubt, and no second chance.
Also that, if you fuck up, say sorry and shut up. Apologise to the people involved, offer to make amends, commit to being more aware, and shutthefuckup. It’s Baker’s insufficient contrition that’s costing him his career.
Shutting the fuck up has never been his strong point. The lack of that has been his career.
Exactamundo. Now, back to whether Ringo is a good drummer…
Assumption 3 – the one you missed out, the one where DB posted a photo of a little chimp in a Churchill coat, wearing a bowler hat and holding a walking cane, like a proper little posh fella, entitled pouty scowl and everything, standing between two obviously posh adults, an image that – albeit laced with regret for the way we treated, and in some parts of the world, still treat, wild animals – made me laugh out loud; it’s a funny image as it stands. That it could be interpreted with a racist slant makes it a regrettable thing to have put on Twitter or anywhere publically available for access by the gormlessia.
Does that mean that putting it there was a racist act? Does it mean that the act itself was racist? In the light of it’s rapid removal once the penny dropped, I fail to understand how it could be maintained that it was. It’s maybe a nuanced point, but nuance is not what the poisonous mob appreciate.
Ironically Archie Harrison was the real name of the chimp in the ad who said “you hum it son, I’ll play it”, in the days when chimps learned how to talk, or the golden age as it’s also known.
Hint: chimps don’t really have names – not ones we can pronounce or write down.
Well that’s clearly not true. What about Mr Shifter?
and Cheeta
Referring to his incontinent loquaciousness, Mrs Moose said that if DB was actually racist “we’d bloody well know about it by now”.
Mrs Moose wins the right to press the “Erase Twitter Entirely From Existence” button.
@Twang – is it too early to suggest DB as a podcast guest????
Yeah, let’s do a “How many fuckwits on Twitter can we upset?” podcast!
Twitter has an inexhaustible supply of fuckwits to take offence, and an equal and opposite number of dickheads of various persuasions to offend them. At any one time they can be in both camps at once too.
Not convinced that taking issue with a mixed-race baby being portrayed as a chimp really makes one a fuckwit.
Though not grasping the nuance of that position really might.
That all on Twitter are fuckwits is the kind of lazy generalisation that probably got us here in the first place.
Interpreting “Twitter has an inexhaustible supply of fuckwits” as “all on Twitter are fuckwits” is exactly the kind of misinterpretation that got us here in the first place, that’s for sure.
Indeed. And now let’s spend all morning bickering about whether ‘all’ and ‘inexhaustible supply’ are the same thing.
We could just agree that lazy generalisations are a bad thing. In general I mean.
What about generalisations that you’ve really sweated over?
Generally if you’re going to generalise you should aim for specific generalisations, rather than generic ones. In general.
You writing the script for a vent act?
(Hastily amended post… nothing to see here etc)
Oh God no. One of the few Word podcasts I didn’t finish was him. I clearly remember it – driving to Calais in fact – it felt like a hammer drill to the temples. He never fucking drew breath. I had to end it.
That’s why it would be so good Twang.
**shudder**
I’m a DB fan. I’ve read the books and listen to a couple of his podcasts every week. I certainly never made the racist connection when I saw the photo. I assumed it was simply a dig at the Royal family. My first thought was “Ooh! That’s a bit naughty” but I never considered it to be a racist comment. I don’t think DB intended that either.
However, I think where he screwed up was in his attempt at an apology. I have wondered since whether the BBC were looking for an excuse to fire him? Had he made a real apology, would that have been enough to save him? I guess we’ll never know.
That perfectly summarises my view as well.
I too am a fan of all things Danny – going back to very early sightings on the LWT 6 O’Clock Show, he just came across as a good bloke.
Enjoyed his books (if getting a little laboured towards the end as he became both more humble (when talking about his illness) and more full of himself (when talking about TFI Friday)).
He’s both been dropped in it, and dropped himself in the sh*t several times in the past, and will doubtless do it again.
Massive error on his part – he never strikes me as someone who truly thinks of the consequences of his actions, and he’s been caught out big time here.
His initial defence of his actions this time may delay his return, but he is a radio broadcaster of some ability (he’s sh*t on the telly, apart from the few times I’ve seen his R5 show broadcast on Freeview channels in the past).
Dan, you f*cked up this time – be a bit more humble in your first response
(Admittedly, he did do this later, but maybe too late)
He’ll be inundated with work offers. His tour will sell out and his podcast with Gary Lineker will go from strength to strength. It’s all good publicity, he seemed quite pleased to be trending on Twitter. His Twitter feed is deliberately provocative and as has been mentioned really cruel to Glenn Hoddle, until last night by weird coincidence.
Is he a racist? Of course not. It was either monumentally stupid or a massive carefully thought through gamble. A Millwall fan from the 70’s not to be aware of the monkey / racism connection? Impossible. Unaware of Megans race especially after the publicity shot of The Queen, Phillip and Megans Mum? Unlikely.
Either way I’ve never forgiven him and Chris Evans for their part in Gazza’s downfall. I’ve always suspected his ire at Hoddle was part guilt over Gazza’s omission from the 1998 World Cup Squad, far easier to blame Hoddle for not picking him….
Dave, I think he has admitted/tweeted that his loathing for Hoddle is all due to non-selection of his mate Gazza (right decision in my mind) DB’s continued criticism of a Hoddle made me think less of him (DB not Hoddle)
One of my favourite bits of radio ever was DB interviewing Lionel Jeffries in the early 90s. LJ, who was residing firmly in the ‘didn’t know he was still alive’ category at the time, was bowled over to have his film directing and screenwriting work so fondly remembered and agog at DB’s recall of infinitesimal levels of Amazing Mr Blunden and Railway Children trivia. Coping with life-extinguishing levels of black dog at the time, the broadcast cheered me up no end. Then he cut to a feature on Oi! bands fronted by racist monkey babies…
Well he done fucked up good and proper didn’t he?
Here’s my hot take;
– I don’t think he’s a racist.
– This was beyond idiotic. He must have known, as a sports broadcaster, that black footballers are abused by racists making monkey noises. He also should have known that Megan Markle is mixed race. He works in the media, he’s an actual broadcaster, his job is to know stuff.
– The BBC literally had no choice because it has a fuckload of employees of all races. As a freelance media wanker myself who, full disclosure, sometimes works there, I am aware that it’s written on the actual BBC passes that if you work for the BBC you are not to bring it into disrepute. Danny Baker definately did this.
– The BBC has a royal charter. Also a large chunk of license fee payers are very pro-royal. (I say many, I mean “most.”)
– Therefore it had no choice but to sack him.
– I have no doubt LBC will snap him up soon enough.
Ah. You work at the BBC, freelance and you misspell ‘definitely’. You, @ganglesprocket, are ‘H’ and I claim my five pounds.
I never get that damn word right.
And I have also never seen Line Of Duty. NO SPOILERS MAN!
I unreservedly apologise and withdraw my comment.
Too late.
Damn.
I resign with immediate effect.
Quite rightly.
Bringing the AW Blog into disrepute.
The BBC did nothing when Alan Sugar posted a racist tweet about the Senegal football team. Double standards from the BBC if the target of racism is a member of the Royal Family and I strongly suspect double standards too from a lot of the people (rightly) calling out the racist connotations of DB’s tweet. I wonder how many of them complain about the abhorrent racist abuse received by the likes of Raheem Sterling or Diane Abbott.
As a license fee payer, I demand that millions of pounds should continue to be thrown at Sugar in order to boost his ego. Money well spent!
If anyone on The Apprentice ever came up with something as utterly shit as an Amstrad midi system they’d get “fired” in week one.
Good evening, I am Fiona Bruce. First question tonight is “Would a racist fuckwit who has been on this programme a mere 33 times in the last two years care to comment on the disgraceful comments made yesterday evening by some South London loudmouth..?”
Sorry I didn’t hear that Nigel – did you just say Donald T thought that tweet was “like awesome”?
Even better, later the bloke who now leads UKIP was all cosy on the This Week sofa, just as if he’s a legitimate politician rather than THE FASCIST TOMMY ROBINSON’S BEST FUCKING MATE.
The whole mess saddens me, to be honest.
No need to feel sorry for DB, he’s a resilient sort & he’d rightly snort at anybody who pitied him.
What is genuinely nauseating is the sheer volume of cant aimed at him by people with a fraction of his talent.
He doesn’t have a racist bone in his body & he dropped a bollock with a pissed gag that belly flopped.
Having realised, he apologised having taking it down.
Things being what they are these days of course, there is an eager queue of ninnies dying to get offended on behalf of someone they don’t know. For proof of this, never mind the Roger Cook style doorstepping by the Mail, Sky News & the BBC ‘ Ooh Danny, what’s it like to be such an awful racist?’, have a look at the comments applauding the BBC for sacking him, as if they’d rid themselves of Nick Griffin. Social media in a nutshell.
Given his straight talking history, I suspect there are those at the Beeb who’ve marked his card a while back & for whom this is a gift they are aren’t about to refuse. They know full well he isn’t remotely racist, but he obviously pisses a certain type of management off – the type who take compliance with edicts far more seriously than the quality of what they dish out to the public.
He isn’t everybody’s cup of tea obviously, but nobody broadcasts like him with a catholic taste in almost everything & a genuine encyclopaedic knowledge of music – this is a guy as passionate about Lionel Bart as Little Feat, about Anthony Newley as Marvin Gaye or Wodehouse. Anybody else on the radio who’s like that? Not a chance, because he’s that rare thing, a properly smart working class bloke, obviously a bit of a chancer who drops his aitches but is usually the smartest individual in the room & is happy to rub that fact in from time to time. He’s not some Sun reading Garry Bushell caricature.
He’ll survive without a doubt, I just think it’s a shame there appears to be no room for well rounded individuals ( who drop clangers on occasion) at the BBC these days.
So you’re argument comes down to, I like him on the radio so stop being nasty?
Yes, that’s IT!
Thank you for taking the same amount of effort to consider the points made as you you do with your use of the apostrophe.
Thanks JJ for getting to the real heart of the matter
Mrs Moose told me to turn the telly down when I was watching Trumpton. It was the sheer volume of Cant that got to her.
(well I thought it was funny…. as DB might have said)
As did I Moose. Hard not to be Chell-ous of your vim and sparkling wit.
Ba dum, and furthermore, tsh 🙂
I’ve liked Baker’s shows for years now, couldn’t really stand him when he started on TV but when his radio shows took off they were a fantastic listen. Genuinely hysterically funny at times and the very real encyclopedic knowledge of music was great after years of DLT and Steve Wright etc. However…in the last couple of years I have gradually come round to the view that you wouldn’t necessarily want to be stuck in a crowded pub with him. And he has always had an odd relationship with twitter hasn’t he? It’s all fully engaging with those famous for “this business we call show” and not even an acknowledgement of anybody he’s never heard of. Not really within the spirit of twitter things is it? And there were sometimes some bloody funny comments in response to some of his tweets, none acknowledged by him, ever. Btw I have no idea what these musings have to do with the Chimp photo incident but for what it’s worth I don’t think he’s a real dyed in the wool racist at all, despite evidence to the contrary the other day. What he might be guilty of is being an arrogant, unthinking, egocentric, bluff idiot at times. Clearly this, and its aftermath, are a good example of that. And this is from someone who has had to pull the car over on more than one occasion laughing at his radio shows.
To be scrupulously fair to him, I don’t think he’s ever claimed to be anything other than an unthinking, egocentric bluff idiot who got lucky.
And I have to admit that until the racial overtone was pointed out to me by a comment on twitter, I hadn’t clocked it either, so I can buy that part of the argument. Anyway, my take is here:
https://medium.com/the-cult-of-stupid/in-defence-of-danny-baker-143a3bc339c0
‘Smartest in the room’ actually not very smart shock!
If somebody posts “The Smartest Monkeys” here, I think the blog will implode like a shit souffle.
I’m sad about this, and will miss his Saturday morning show. But, whilst I am sure not intentionally racist, his tweet absolutely was that (I’m astonished that people seem ignorant of the fact that black people have been insulted by being compared to apes and monkeys for centuries, and not just on the football terraces). It would legitimately offend many people, and would no doubt be seen as hilarious by knuckle grazing racists of whom there are far too many still around. So, yes, I think it was a sackable offence for a BBC employee.
In his LBC interview with James O’Brien, he seems to accept this, and the fact that the BBC can’t be expected to distinguish between him tweeting this, and, say, a UKIP supporter. His ire is reserved (not for the first time) at those he condemns as spineless suits, and the way they sacked him, suggesting that had they simply said that they knew he wasn’t a racist but they had no choice but to sack him, he’d have been fine with that. Somehow I doubt that that’s the case….
“(I’m astonished that people seem ignorant of the fact that black people have been insulted by being compared to apes and monkeys for centuries, and not just on the football terraces).”
I think everyone is aware it used to happen in the past. That it still goes on to the extent that people need to be sensitive about it is very surprising to me. But from this thread I have the impression that it must be a far more common thing in the UK than in other countries. Very sad. In my non-UK, no-footie life it’s just not something that I hear about or, consequently, think about. Here in Italy institutionalised racism is more the problem (although ordinary people will slyly discriminate against foreigners – especially foreigners from poor countries) and such overt racist insult against black people is pretty unimaginable outside the worlds of football or neo-Nazis. (However, I fear that might change following the rise to prominence of the detestable scumbag Matteo Salvini.)
I carry no torch for DB, nor against him. I’ll also start by saying that as soon as I heard it wa s a chimp, I started to worry. And I’ll close my opening by saying I don’t know what’s in his heart.
But let’s be honest here.
He is an avowed football fan. For anyone to claim that he isn’t aware that monkeys/monkey chants are racist when directed at Black or Mixed Race footballers would be disingenuous.
You would have to have been living under a rock for years to avoid the fact that Markle is of AA descent, and that therefore the baby will be of mixed race descent.
He works in the media; he understands the power of media, and pictures, and Twitter. Again, to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
I struggle, even with a generous heart, to think that he wasn’t in the slightest aware of the possible repercussions. If he was, he’s so daft he doesn’t deserve to be working in the media circles that he does.
And yeah, for a mixed race child, a chimp picture? A lot of people can rightfully take offence to that and think that it is racist. And can I ever so gently point out the slightly ridiculous spectacle of a bunch of aging white men deciding what is and is not racist.
I think his argument is not realising Meghan was mixed race. I tend to believe him based on 30 years or so when i’ve never heard him remotely be racist. However, everyone will have their own opinion.
Anyway, wouldn’t it be more correct to say “racialist”?
Let’s not pussyfoot here. I don’t think he is a cunt. But he is definitely a twat. Maybe it will teach him to stop fannying around on twitter when he’s been necking wine.
That’s strong from you, sal. Normally, you are an oasis of serene calm. Even so, I agree with every word.
Tig – I’ve obviously spent too much time in FaceBook Archers groups – those fans of Ambridge cut up pretty rough when they’ve had their daily dose of Susan Carter.
Unless he had been on the booze all day (always possible I suppose) he posted his “Evening everybody” picture of that night’s first drink very shortly before the offending tweet and he has not used the “I was drunk” excuse. As many have said already the chimp “gag” has been a running feature for him for many years (like the picture of Dustin Hoffman running along the corridor). He was trying to make a joke about posh babies, got it completely wrong and took the post down pretty quickly.
As for the “He supports Millwall therefore he must know what racism is” argument – I love football and love going to games when I am in the UK. 93.25% of the time you are surrounded by fuckwits hurling insults at the ref, the opposing fans, the stewards, the managers et al. Sometimes it goes too far and if you are brave enough one might turn to your neighbour and say ” My good fellow, please mind your language” but mostly one lets it go. Being there doesn’t make me nor Danny Baker a racist.
Lodestone, I’m just joining in a thread about a subject I know little about, of course, but there was this:
Danny Baker@prodnose
Just got fired from @bbc5live.
For the record – it was red sauce. Always.
8,642
11:30 AM – May 9, 2019
I didn’t mention the football aspect (something I know even less about), but wasn’t that raised to make the point that attending a football match where racist chants are made surely makes him aware of the significance of the association, not that it makes you or him a racist?
Red sauce is another running theme where people are asked what goes on a bacon/sausage sandwich.
Take your point re Millwall but somebody somewhere did align being a supporter and a racist
I beg to differ, Mrs. Wrongness, sir. The only point made about footie was that people extraneous to its influence aren’t necessarily so aware of the current sensitivity towards that particular issue. (And as pointed out, that doesn’t really apply to DB.)
Thanks for the correction – a casual alignment of two separate topics, then – which led me to misinterpreting the ambiguity of the second part.
I’m not sure if that makes it better or worse, to be honest, but I’d stick by my initial comment, apart from the last five words. ‘about major* national news stories’
____________
* I say major only because even my local florist in Bonn was asking whether Theresa May etc were wearing white roses to celebrate Prince Archie.
That’s an impressive collection of four derogatory female genitalia references in a short snatch of conversation. Some people would beaver-y upset about that
Let’s not split hairs – I should probably clam up now.
I find that comment somewhat below the belt.
I don’t think he is a prick , but he is definitely a plonker, and needs to stop dicking around etc.
Thank you for the gender balancing, Moose. I was hoping for a suitable response from a master. Baiting my comment with taboo words, I did wonder if I would get pulled off for it.
I’m always happy to plug the gender gap.
What’s that? Another hamper, you say? Oh I couldn’t possibly – I can’t manage two hampers as well as the ‘Coolbox of 5000 Reads’ that’s due this afternoon
Most of it has been said
1. Don’t do Twitter
2. STFU Danny but I still like you
3. What about Spurs fans and the Y word? Can of worms there.
DB is well and truly contrite this morning, giving a full and unconditional apology. “I fucked up. Badly”. Worth checking out the full thread on Twitter
If he’d had the self-awareness to have issued this first time, the outcome may have been different.
Shame he didn’t do that sooner, but humility obviously doesn’t come easy to Danny. It’s Mid Morning Matters on Radio Norwich for him from now on.
Following one of the worst days of my life I just want to formally apologise for the outrage I caused and explain how I got myself into this mess.
“I chose the wrong photo to illustrate a joke. Disastrously so.
“In attempting to lampoon privilege and the news cycle I went to a file of goofy pictures and saw the chimp dressed as a Lord and thought, ‘That’s the one!’
“Had I kept searching I might have chosen General Tom Thumb or even a baby in a crown. But I didn’t. God knows I wish had.”
The statement added: “Minutes later I was alerted by followers that this royal baby was of course mixed race and waves of panic and revulsion washed over me.
“F**k, what had I done? I needed no lessons on the centuries slurs equating simians and people of colour. Racism at it’s basest.
“I am aware black people do not need a white man to tell them this. Deleting it immediately and apologising for the awful gaffe I even foolishly tried to make light of it. (My situation that is, not the racism involved.) Too late and here I am.
“I would like once and for all to apologise to every single person who, quite naturally, took the awful connection at face value. I understand that and all of the clamour and opprobrium I have faced since. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I f****d up. Badly.
“But it was a genuine, naive and catastrophic mistake …
“I am now paying the price for this crass and regrettable blunder and rightly so. Probably even this final word from me will extend the mania. (‘Dog whistle’ anyone?) I would like to thank friends on here for their kinder words and once again – I am so, so sorry.
This blog piece is sort of what I would have wanted to write had I had the time and inclination. Darren Stephens was a contributor in the old place. Don’t think he is now. Good work anyway.
https://medium.com/the-cult-of-stupid/in-defence-of-danny-baker-143a3bc339c0
Have an up, Diddley & may DS have one too. Perfectly expressed.
Bugger Darren – I was going to say just that! Seriously, hats off and all that
Ditto here, lads. It’s exactly like what’s in my head, but when I say it it comes out as gibberish…
Very good, except for the ridiculous comparison of the BBC’s treatment of Baker with its giving a platform to Farage, a point that’s been raised everywhere today with no apparent thought about how stupid it is. Talk about echo chambers…
For a start, Baker’s a BBC employee and a senior broadcaster, so subject to disciplinary procedures. I suspect sending well-known racist tropes to half a million people is a dismissible offence in most organisations. Imagine the clamour for Andrew Neil’s sacking if he’d done the same.
Farage on the other hand won 12.5% of the election vote with UKIP in 2015 and his new party is topping the polls for the Euro elections with about 30%. Distasteful as it is, the state broadcaster has to air his views – and the reason it’s always Farage is that he can’t trust anyone else in those nasty parties not to goose step around the studio with a comb as a moustache.
By the way, the BBC has a clip on the front page of its website of Farage getting ripped to bits by the panel and audience on last night’s QT, and earlier today Neil pulled a right wing intellectual apart so conclusively that the guy called him leftie and stormed out. But yeah, BBC’s bias, innit.
The “ridiculous comparison” is the treatment handed out to a radio broadcaster who tweeted something very silly and very wrong versus giving a continual ongoing platform to a racist lying scumbag.
An employee or contractor versus a very popular politician. The Beeb doesn’t have the luxury of an emotional response like you do
“Very popular politician”.
Godwin’s Rule alert!
That’s… not Godwin’s Law
FFS Chiz! Of course Farage gets a certain significant amount of votes but does that allow him to be on Question Time 33 times in the last two years? Work out the bloody figures like what I have – according to my inbrain computer that means he should have been allowed one appearance before being taken to The Walk Of Shame where everyone pelts him with ordure and says “My , that’s a very small willy”.
Once again; echo chamber. Farage was on QT once in 2018. He’s been on 33 times since May 2010. That’s slightly less frequent than Liberal Democrat Simon Hughes, who did 34 in a similar time frame.
It’s one less. (I just counted.)
Both over nine years. Farage has not been on 33 times in two years as Lodes claims. For that to be true he’d have to be on nearly every second episode.
The most regular guests are in fact all staunch Remainers: Ken Clarke (59 appearances), Shirley Williams (58), Menzies Campbell (46), Harriet Harman (45), Charles Kennedy (44), Clare Short (39), Hezza (38), Paddy Ashdown (37), Roy Hattersley (36) and Simon Hughes (34), with our Nige on 33.
Ken Clarke voted in favour of May’s Brexit deal three times.
In the same period?
Re 33 times , damn – last time I believe something I read on an internet blog
It’s amazing that we’ve got to the point where BBC = untrustworthy news source, but Some Bloke on the Internet = totally legit.
Today’s false equivalence; The Beeb is biased because it won’t let Heidi Allen go on HIGNFY but they put Farage on on Question Time
Is Charles Kennedy voting from beyond the grave or something?
In relation to that list. Weren’t they all cabinet ministers or sitting MPs?,whereas Farage is a 7 time failure and lost to a dolphin. His appearances are disproportionate to his political standing
I have no new or radically different views and opinions to those already expressed in the discussion, but I would just like to acknowledge the calm and rational way @chiz is handling the incoming here. More of this sort of thing.
Thank you @skirky – it’s great that we can have a long and apparently very popular discussion without anyone making it personal or questioning each other’s sincerity. There’s hope for us yet…
It will be a Godwin moment the instant somone points out that Adolf got a few votes in his time, so let me demonstrate:
“That Farage twat! We need to keep a careful eye on dangerous, twisted scum like that – don’t forget that Adolf Hitler won a ‘democratic vote’ or two!”
OK?
Oh, definitely. If anyone had said that or anything even remotely like it you could definitely claim a Godwin’s Gotcha.
But it’s not a very useful intervention in the context of the rise of the Far Right. “Aha! You compared a fascist to a fascist! Therefore you lose!”
I didn’t claim a gotcha, I raised an alert. Oh, never mind.
Popular enough to have lost seven by-elections.
And as an aside I had the unfortunate experience to see this fascist getting out of a car when he in spoke in Shoreham a few weeks ago. I managed to shout “Pound Shop Mussolini” at him as I drove slowly past. I got a v-sign and an f-off from his thick, burly minders.
That’s FPTP for you. It’s what keep Farage out and the Tories in
Mrs Moose chuckled through that Neil interview. How right-wing do you have to be to see old Brillo as left-wing?
Right-wing enough to want to put women in jail for having miscarriages, for a start. Every time we think we’re getting the edge on wingnuttery, the Good old U States of A asserts its mighty supremacy…
Interesting. I thought Farage came across frighteningly well last night. Far better than Soubry. The audience were largely behind him, too. Plus, Neil was a pompous arse in that interview. The Amercan may be a wingnut but he seemed more rational than his interviewer.
OOAA of course.
Maybe I have the wrong end of a stick here, but can I ask if you are talking about that speed-jabbering piece of nasty shit called Shapiro? Cos if that’s who you mean, I failed completely in my quest to hear him say anything particularly worthy of congratulation as ‘rational’. Neil, in my opinion, treated him with exactly the right level of contempt and disdain; the man’s worse than a wingnut, he’s fucking dangerous.
Neil barely let him string a sentence together. His interviewing technique was the perfect way to provoke sympathy with the interviewee, even though, I agree, he’s dangerous.
https://youtu.be/UIlT_AV-80k
Say no more
I see that his second claim in that video is that the Left limit themselves to attacking the character of the Right as “bad” rather than coming out with constructive debate.
Well, why not when it succeeded so well in stopping Trump from getting elected?
….er….
I’m talking about the montage the BBC put together that’s still on their website. I don’t think it reflects your assessment of his performance. And Neil is always a pompous arse, whoever he’s interviewing.
Do you have a link? I can’t seem to find it.
bbc.co.uk
If you mean ‘Brexit debate heats up on Question Time’, we’ll have to disagree. I don’t think he was ripped to bits.
Jings Tigger ..
Ok. For me, the comments they’ve selected from Soubry, Rudd and Reynolds all specifically attack his position, or lack of it, and he just shouts over them. Three against one kind of ruins the perception that the BBC favours Farage.
I’ll accept that.
The audience were definitely on his side. I will say that, most of the time, Rudd seemed to be the only grown up on the panel.
I’m watching now. None come out well. Farage scores more cheap points (to a largely “home crowd”), Soubry very weak in defending the position I most agree with. Lots of “you don’t listen” -“no, you don’t listen”.
When a lot of people, especially blokes, say “listen” what they actually mean is “agree with me uncritically like my mates do”.
Farage featuring heavily on the tellybox may not be a bad thing. He appeals to his vociferous base but turns off moderates. There was a reason the Leave campaign kept him at arm’s length. His presence at the head of Brexit could well increase sympathy with Remain.
Polling at 34 fucking % now.
I despair.
It’s what ‘e wants, innit? Propaganda for Referendum 2 just in case; stick it to those c*nts in Westminster an’ vote for your gobby mate Nige oo drinks dahn the pub an’ oo ‘as a right go at all them bloody foreigners. Serve ’em right, they never done nothin’ for me did they? Bloody Romans. An’ that. Your round, pal. Fuck me.
“right wing intellectual”
Oxymoron alert!
Yeah, Milton Friedman, what a dimbo
Spellcheck alert – that’s diLDo – you’re welcome.
Cheap shot I know, I just fancied using that word. Friedman wasn’t unintelligent, he was just someone who made a career out of telling people not to forget to pull the ladder up after them.
As was mine obvs.
For the record, I think you’re being extremely charitable about MF.
I know I wouldn’t want any of my servants using him as a marital aid, for fear of contracting something.
Darren Stephens piece is an excellent article, and Bakers ‘on reflection’ comments today are well said. I do think he’s paid a heavy price for a moment of stupidity, but I still think sacking was the right response. There’s an excellent piece by Philip Collins in the Times today (behind the paywall) which makes this argument well, I think.
‘It’s not acceptable to associate a baby of mixed racial heritage with a chimpanzee. The connotations are too obvious, too recent, too degrading. There was a time when this sort of association was commonplace; it is a mark of progress that we do not tolerate it now. The public realm should be policed very severely in this regard….none of that means Danny Baker is a racist. It is a subtle distinction, perhaps too subtle for the fever of social media, to say that people who are not racists can nevertheless commit acts with racist implications for which they must be held accountable.’
Absolutely spot-on, particularly the last sentence.
The ‘official’ definition of a racist act could do with similar subtle finesse, to avoid it aiding the fevered social media mob to fan the torches and sharpen the pitchforks of shouty, crowd-funded stupidity.
Some seem to have appointed themselves judge and jury, made up their minds about who is guilty of what, whether or not it has any personal bearing upon themselves, pronounced sentence and then slouched against the wall outside the pub, loudly spouting shit into the echo chamber of nastiness that is Twitter. For my own sanity, I shall endeavour to remain deaf to their noise and bluster.
It’s true, and it’s disappointing to see people on Twitter even after his further apology play the man not the ball and accuse someone they’d probably never heard of before this of being a rampant racist who couldn’t possibly have not known exactly what he was doing.
Spot on, BB.
He’s from South London, a bit lairy , supports Millwall, ergo he is obviously the worst thing possibly imaginable.
Utter bollocks, of course & I say that as someone from S E London myself, who does the occasional swear & is life long Chelsea supporter.
Can I at this point raise a practical point etc…
Does anyone remember a Danny Baker piece on , I think, one of his early 5Live shows probably about 20 (!) years ago. I really can’t remember much but recall it having me in stitches for ages. Something to do with a mate/ someone having “trauma” and walking round with that written on his face. Or something.
No, but I do remember once having to pull over onto the hard shoulder because I was laughing so much at his phone in I couldn’t drive safely. It was either the famous George Heslop’s wig story, or the time someone phoning in claimed she’d just got out of the shower and was starkers – Danny got her to slap various parts of her body to validate the claim. As always, you had to be there, but whatever else you think of him, he is capable of being one of the funniest broadcasters on the radio.
TURMOIL!
https://universityofturmoil.wordpress.com/about/
That was actually during his brief tenure at Radio 1. DLT and Adrian Juste did not approve…
PS) Does anybody remember DB refusing to take a rather well-remunerated job at Virgin Radio when it started because they wouldn’t let him play any soul or reggae music?
What an absolute National Front Oswald Moseley Nazi Fascist!!
@chiz
That’s it! Turmoil not trauma. Thank you!
Unfortunately I can visualise a W1A-type meeting where a decision is made to fire Danny Baker based on bewildering social media reaction stats rather than common sense.
Much has been made of his initial defiant reaction – but let’s say *you* did that tweet because the picture is funny and chimps dressed as people are funny. How would *you* react if people you don’t know piled in and called you a racist – explaining to you why it is racist? As an innocent person, appalled by this, you would take the post down, apologise and then defend yourself.
An actual racist would enjoy the storm, keep quiet, and wonder how this can be monetised. A few days later a carefully worded apology of sorts would appear. Danny has reacted in the way any innocent person would with clumsy, spluttering defiance because when integrity is questioned – it’s really hard to keep a serene silence.
I think there’s two possible reactions. Some of us, those who send our lives vaguely fumbling around in the dark, terrified of what the world thinks of us, would have gone immediately to his Plan B, the fulsome and heartfelt apology. But Dan, and others blessed with massive self-confidence but perhaps limited self-awareness, might try to deflect the whole thing, make it someone else’s weakness, someone’s diseased mind, rather than their own thoughtless mistake. Even then, the damage when they subsequently retract wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t a celebrity, and if we didn’t live in a time of witch trials and moral absolutes.
I’m not saying one approach is better than the other – a few years ago, before Twitter mobs became the whole of the law, he might have brazened it out. Even now, once everyone’s done measuring their moral superiority to him, we might just decide he’s a good guy who made a dumb mistake and then catastrophically doubled down on it and lost everything.
Equally, we might just forget all about it as soon the next public figure does something that’s not perfectly saintly, and Danny will have a lovely story for volume five of his autobiography and an anecdote for his live shows.
I think you’re right. I think Martin Clunes is copping it today for climbing up an elephant like a mahout would. Today’s news is tomorrow’s chi(m)p paper.
Chimp paper – arf
Have an up
Having read some thought provoking articles like Billy Bragg’s yesterday I have come to the mature (?) reflection that Baker is no racist but the BBC had little alternative to show him where the door was.
One of Billy’s comments was along the lines of “We all forget that online we are not in a pub bantering with our mates even though most of the time it feels exactly like that”. As many on here will have noticed I constantly fall into that trap making “You’re crap, you are” remarks forgetting people can’t see the smile on my face or hear the attractive Scots lilt in my voice. Mea Culpa
Aye, a few glasses of Lodey’s Liftmeup: Buckfast, Lilt and Cutty Sark, and I can’t see my own smile.
I thought that was the mix they use at Dignitas.
Perfect way to sign off
Whit! Nae Irn Bru?
Do you know nothing? Irn Bru is the key ingredient in a Wrong ‘Un, being a tin of Irn Bru, half a bottle of tawny port and a double Bunnahabhain. Something to buy with a lifted wallet.
Well it looks like Danny’s got through his brief and grudging moment of contrition and is back to blaming other people again. He told and audience last night “When life deals you lemons, you chuck them at the people calling you a racist.”
He can’t help himself.
299! Do I hear three hundred? The fabled Triple Hamper? Anyone? I’ll share the Gentlemen’s Relish
Add a smidgen of Marmite to that sandwich and I am there. I don’t like Gentleman’s Relish. What on earth do they put in there?
Anchovies I believe. Often known as Gentleman’s Rubbish.
Gentleman’s Relish – a Google Search term to be used with care
Obviously don’t know the rules, Chiz
One century – one hamper
Double century – a copy of Mini’s latest Charity Find (this week “Englebert Plays The Blues”)
Triple Century – a weekend in Hull (Mrs Moose is very accommodating I hear)
Hoi! The prize of Mrs Moose is only to be won by the man who can successfully challenge me in the traditional Hull manner – a fight to the death with replicas of Mick Ronson’s Gibson fashioned from fish patties.
‘FISH patties’? Didn’t realise you were so posh, Moose!
(Pssst I put “fish” in because these southerners wouldn’t know what a pattie is… unless it was doing the pony like Boney Moronie)
Look, it’s all there in the T&Cs – one picnic hamper for each 100 comments, the Thermos of Most Viewed this month, the coolbox of Topping All Four List Simultaneously, the folding camping table of Six Thousand Views plus the tartan groundsheet of ‘300 comments and no one’s called anyone else a c*nt’.
Dear heavens, by “accommodating” I only meant Mrs Moose does a nice line in jammy dodgers
That she does. Sticky and sweet.
Mmm-hmm.
Steady now. You wouldn’t want to meet Danny Baker’s nemesis, hubris.
😉
Ohhhh hark at madam with the classical education!
Euripides trousers? Eumenides trousers!
Ice-T impression: Thread Killerrrrrrrrrrrrr!
What the hell is going on?
I repeat ……
Surprised to see this back
1600 views for this thread in the last month apparently.
Oh, that’s just chiz and his tabloid-level clickbait thread titles. Half the people on here only discovered the site because of his “Michael Jackson Used Hitler’s Cock As A Sherbet Dip” post..