Pleased to see that Now 90s has appeared on Freeview as I find familiar music at breakfast time to be far more palatable than John Humphrys or Larry Laverene.
This mornings appearance of ‘Dizzy’ by Vic Reeves and The Wonder Stuff led me to reminisce about my uni days and how The Stuffies (as no-one ever called them) were a popular and credible band. These days: nothing. They are never played on the radio, never cited as an influence by acts, and whenever they are brought up in conversation with my music loving friends they respond with a ‘meh’. Even their reunion was greeted with the same enthusiasm as when one of your kids asks to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic again (yes you do that sweetie, I’ll be over here scrubbing these crayon marks off the wall). I’d go as far to say their only contribution to modern day life is that Miles Hunt is a frequently used rhyming slang.
This is just a roundabout way of asking the blog who was popular and credible back in the day, but mean absolutely nowt today?
Good thread. I still pull out the Stuffies first two albums (they were very much part of my student days) – great songs, great sound and certainly crap on most of the toothless ‘indie’ bands that followed them. I’m well aware that I sound just as much an old fart as the genration before me decrying my favourites. But still:
There are many acts I own that have shifted into irrelevance, and command raised eyebrows among my peers. Some of them I still really like:
Supergrass
Crowded House
10cc
The Bangles
Sheryl Crow (first two albums, anyway)
Dire Straits (ditto)
Some I’ll still defend, but the shine has very much gone off:
Del Amitri
Ash
The Jesus and Mary Chain
Flaming Lips
And some has aged terribly, and their CDs need to go to the chazza shop:
Oasis
Kaiser Chiefs (shudder)
Travis
Scissor Sisters
The Magic Numbers
The latter four were all Everywhere in the noughties. That’s showbiz – talent will out. Some of the more niche stuff who were never that big (Hal, The High Llamas) simply have amazing songs and I will brook no argument, but get the ‘who?’ reaction from most.
The Scissor Sisters were astonishing in that I once lived in a shared house of 8 people and 6 of us owned that album. They were EVERYWHERE. The only reason they ever come to mind now is when Ana Matronic annoys me on Radio 2.
I’ve probably not listened to that album in 15 years, and have no real desire to do so.
I suspect it was the Scissor Sisters misfortune to revive disco just as the original music became widely accessible through streaming. (And today, you can still catch first generation performers like Barry Gibb and Nile Rodgers on the festival circuit, so who needs a tribute act?)
In the early nineties, every student I knew owned the debut albums by The Cranberries and Alanis Morrisette – but I suspect almost none of us bought their subsequent releases.
Steven Hyden’s “Twilight of the Gods” has just reminded me that Prince was selling almost zip in albums and had last troubled the singles chart two decades before his untimely end reminded everyone how central he was to their lives.
So, am I alone in owning all four of the Scissor Sisters’ albums, and happy to keep listening to them? There can be no such thing as too much disco!
That album always reminds me of Hunky Dory. No idea why.
I find this topic of endless interest. Charity shops are full of robbie williams CDs, but he still plays enormodomes. Did he invest well?
I suspect that one can anticipate the dross a tad: landfill indie, cookie-cutter pop, acme generic rock/ acme generic ‘alternative’., another boyband, another girlband… some sorts of music need to exist as prototypes for a generation, so there is bound to be a heart-throb, a rock band, a drug pig, a non-threatening minority singer. That said, what remains ‘big’ is not necessarily good, and what is good is not necessarily big. You just need a loyal fan base. peter hammill survives pretty well still for those who care.
Always gives me a chuckle to see multiple copies of Boyzone’s ‘Where We Belong’ in a charity shop…
These kind of artists are just as popular with their demographic as they ever were. The reason their CDs are piled high in the charity shops is because their demographic stream their music now and no longer own CD players.
The Stuffies one was interesting. Eight legged Groove Machine was a fantastic debut – Hup and Never Loved Elvis also good efforts
They still sell out decent sized venues and Hunt does a lot of solo stuff .
Pop Will eat Itself you could argue were groundbreaking with their use of samples and rock riffs but also never cited as influential. Both bands credible, neither fashionable it would seem
Great call on PWEI, although they do get some reflected credibility these days thanks to Clint Mansell and his film/tv soundtracks.
I always thought The Prodigy were the dance magazine reader’s answer to PWEI.
I quite liked the early Wonder Stuff, good live band and some decent tunes. But when they went all tartan suits and big shorts, they started to embarrass some of those who had got into the first album I think, and Miles Hunt wasn’t really that likeable as a front man. I bet they were among a lot of late eighties students first cd purchases, as Hup and the third album (Never Loved Elvis?) are always on sale in a charity shop somewhere. That Wonder Stuff, Kingmaker, Carter, PWEI, Jesus Jones type of thing dated really quickly with the onset of britpop, when it all became about Adidas trainers and mod jackets among the indie kids, most of whom.would have been wearing a Neds Atomic Dustbin long sleeved baggy shirt two years before.
Maybe just because I’m a fan, but I still find NAD and Carter as playable and important as they ever were.
Perhaps not to the general public, but still relevant to me (and the 14 yr old)
Reading through this month’s Vive Le Rock magazine, I notice that Neds and Pop Will Eat Itself are playing at Shepherd’s Bush Empire this Easter. Good for them if they still merit that level of gig. I worked at the same college as a post fame Neds bass player for a short while. Nice chap, even if I didn’t have reason to speak to him much.
That’s frankly not good enough @nick-l !
Which particular bass player?
Quite right @Freddy-Steady I think it was Alex Griffin. My memory not being what it was I’m afraid I had to look up the names of the band members!
Of that era, Jesus Jones were the ‘baggy’ group who broke America: they won an MTV award and ‘Right here, Right Now’ was a massive college radio hit, although they have not left a legacy. The Farm were always trendier in the UK, but is there anyone who still listens to them?
Jesus Jones is a good call. I saw them more than once, including headlining the Astoria, in the early 90s. They recently played my local 100-capacity music pub and didn’t sell it out. I couldn’t be botherd to go and see them because it was raining.
I still love Info Freako – not bothered about owt else tho
T.Rex, or specifically Marc Bolan. Just before the height of their fame and all the T.Rextasy headlines, Bolan was seen as the biggest star in England, and despite the usual reverence paid to “Electric Warrior” and various punks ( The Damned Bauhaus and Siouxsie) doffing their respective caps, he seems to have brushed into the margins of rock history.
Bowie is acclaimed as a chameleon and Bolan as a charlatan but really, although Bolan struggled to update and move his sound on, his dabbling with soul and dance music, while not commercially sucessful is an interesting listen and a brave or maybe foolhardy choice for the man at that time.
I mean even Gary Numan is being feted as unfluential, so maybe cut some slack for the Boppin Elf.
[An unpopular view follows:]
Tyrannosaurus Rex were awful and needed a haircut, a wash, and to just fucking grow up. The hippy stuff was embarrassing when I was a hippy. He couldn’t sing. T. Rex had a run of good singles in 1972-73, but their eternally shit lyrics and Buddy Holly knock offs could not last. They did better if they had a decent producer (e.g., “20th century Boy”), but couldn’t sustain it as there was nothing to sustain. Bolan was even more of a wannabe than Bowie, but Bowie had the interest in art to make his work more nuanced. Bolan had Tolkein and “The Prophet”: he was very much of his times, and lucky with it.
[Ducks and avoids internet for a few days.]
“Shit lyrics?” He created some of the best, most memorable lines and rhymes in pop. Perhaps not intellectually rigorous, but not meant to be – yet absolutely perfect in their context.
Ah yes, “a poet”. What idiot told Marc Bolan that? To me, the whimsy and word salad sounds like the worst of the 60s trying to keep up with the emerging 1970s. As i said, the singles in 72/73 stand up as good bits of glam, and for that I am grateful, but otherwise, i think he is now of historic interest for good reason. OOAA.
1.T Rex, like Adam & The Ants, prove that all you need to have a more-than-you-can-count-on-one-hand run of great singles* is two ideas and some sparkling tunes.
2. It strikes me that many of the “forgotten” acts are U.K. acts that the U.S. turned up its nose at.
3. The Eight-Legged Groove Machine is a brilliant guitar pop record. As much as I am entranced by the cer-ayzee new sounds of today, one of my fondest wishes is that there was just one guitar pop record even close to that good every year.
(*and there are very few things in this universe better than a more-than-you-can-count-on-one-hand run of great singles).
A day doesn’t go by without me loving Tyrannosaurus Rex just a little bit more.
“Needed a haircut,” “to just fucking grow up,” “very much of his times” … Bolan was born in 1947, who wouldn’t want to be of their times if they were born in 1947? … lads come and dine at the Top Table of Pop, your starter awaits.
Agree with this, The Eight-Legged Groove Machine was a punchy, loud and refreshingly tuneful album after some of the insipid indie-schmindie stuff that had been around during the C86 period.
I didn’t suggest that he was a ‘poet’ (although he undoubtedly considered himself so); he was a pop lyricist par excellence, and that is quite something to be.
by perfect timing, just as I was opening my laptop, the line “I drive a Rolls Royce, cos it’s good for my voice” came to mind.
Stupid, but who cares? I actually think Children of the Revolution is peak Trex – it really captures a majestic groove.
Bolan’s status is probably no worse than it ought to be
That’s the one I was thinking of – it just…resonates, doesn’t it? See also “You’ve got the universe reclining in your hair”, “I danced myself out of the womb”, “You’ve got the blues in your shoes and your stockings” etc.
Ahem…..
“My People Were Fair and Had Sky in Their Hair… But Now They’re Content to Wear Stars on Their Brows”
” I drive a Rolls Royce, cos its good for my voice”
Ruddy marvellous!
No need to duck really. Tyrannosaurus Rex made a few lovely singles, One Inch Rock, Deborah, Salamander Palagander. I dont recall him being overly serious on the “poet” front, although I did catch them at the Free Trade Hall cross legged on stage, acoustic guitar, bongos , Woolies organ etc, David Bowie doing mime and John Peel mumbling something or other. I found it quite endearing even then but I dont think we thought it hippyish to be honest. Then of course came the run of brilliant T Rex singles. At the time they were compared more to Slade than Bowie. He did eventually go off the boil but I remember him with great fondness.
My first fave band, Ty and T. Still love them unconditionally, and Electric Warrior is brilliant. Marc burned out too quickly but he was an original. The steely eyed, magpie like Bowie was always going to go far.
Marc Bolan – a case of too much cocaine, too much Brandy, believing his own press, and a belief that he didn’t need a competent band and an even more competent producer around him.
1972 – top of his game
1973 – still near the top, but the cracks are showing
1974 – treading water
1975 – where have my audience gone?
1976 – maybe I better get on and do something (Futuristic Dragon is a brilliant album (if largely forgotten)
1977 – at last he’s got a decent band around him (including 2 ex-Bowie cohorts), some decent songs and getting back in the game.
It was not to be …
I left school/started college in 1992 and those bands from 90-92 like The Wonderstuff, CarterUSM, PWEI, Jesus Jones felt underwhelming to me at the time. One would not accuse them of being sexy.
But then Suede happened. Oh my word they were exciting to me at the time. Suede are an interesting case because I would argue that 10 years ago they were nowhere near as well regarded as they are now. Not only have they reformed and remain a great live act, they’ve tended to the garden of their legacy: Controlling their (numerous) reissues, releasing pretty good new stuff (albeit stuff I don’t listen to much compared to the older records) and recently putting out a career-spanning documentary which sent me back again to the records.
To use the T.Rex/Gary Numan comparison above: Gary didn’t die and has leant on a fanbase that indulges him, and some mega fans that namecheck him. He’s tended that garden and has paid off. Good for him. Marc, had he lived, could’ve done something similar.
Finally, management is important. As far as I know, there’s no management person in Marc’s corner, compared to Tom Petty’s management who appear to have transitioned into dealing with Tom’s archive with remarkable aplomb, or Queen’s management who have played an amazing long-game.
I couldn’t care less what Queen do with their back catalogue but I have noticed their reworked songs appearing on adverts. Who made the decision to license Flash Gordon to Proctor & Gamble I wonder?
We took our 8 year old son to watch the Freddie Mercury biopic and he’s now Queen’s number one (8 year old) fan. We’ve got tickets to take him to We Will Rock You. I think the wife has drawn that short straw, but there is a Queen tribute band playing a small venue in Barnsley and it was supposed to be on his birthday, so we all got tickets, but now it’s been put back a couple of weeks. I was expecting it to be difficult to convince his big sis to come with us when it was his birthday treat, but I don’t fancy our chances of convincing her to come to the rearranged date.
Anyway, he’s upstairs watching the extras on the Bohemian Rhapsody Blu Ray that came today. I understand the film itself is the evening’s family entertainment.
Suede’s album last year is up there with their debut and Dog Man Star
Isn’t the problem with a number of acts mentioned here that they had a couple of decent singles but the albums were, largely, shite?
Exactly. The focus is now on tracks not albums. Sometimes one of these songs is on a soundtrack, and it captures the imagination. I like singles, but I also like albums and books. the latter have a sustained narrative or vision. Some people don’t have the sustained narrative, though they may have been told they have, or its expected they will have. Staying power is a funny thing: Ian Dury and the Blockheads were brilliant, but sank as quickly as they rose.
In 1991 EMF broke the world with this song. It was ubiquitous and they were gonna be massive forever. But now? I know most people will remember the song, well at least the one-word chorus, but I guarantee most people would be stretched to know who did it
Which reminds me…
Was it in a jeans commercial?
Levis – when they went through a phase of using unheard of contemporary songs which sold tonnes ans went to Number One – followed by not a lot.
See also Stiltskin
Is this the first time anyone mentions Stiltskin around here?
And who remembers Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine?
Yes – I was probably a couple of years too young for them in their pomp. Have actually started listening to some of their stuff now, and while the sound is a bit dated, the lyrics still raise a smirk. Would love to have seen them live.
Me. And Andrew Collins, at least.
30 Something is a Classic Album in my world.
I can still recite every word of sheriff fat man… At six foot six and 100 tonnes the undisputed king of the slums…
More aliases than Klaus Barbie, the master butcher of Leigh on Sea
I see that Jim Bob is on tour soon. The other one, pretending I don’t know his name*, is the guitarist for the Notts neo-Levellers, Ferocious Dog.
*Fruitbat
Just about to take the stage…
The one and only,
Hold the front page
I, too, am word perfect on it.
This might just be my lack of awareness, but what about The Strokes? They seemed to be everywhere, a name on the lips of every trendsetter, and then suddenly nothing: you don’t hear much about them, never hear them played.
Bullseye. From a similar era, I would offer The Libertines and Andrew wk.
The Strokes are still very much a thing, but they never had the together-ness of, say, U2, to push and be the biggest of the biggest. As a result they appear every few years, headline some big gigs, release a record to passing interest and disappear again to do their solo projects. Rinse and repeat. In May they headline the Saturday Night of All Point East in London, the last time they were in London in 2015 they headlined Hyde Park. There’s now definitely a second wave of Strokes fans who have only read about the early 2000s NYC scene and see them as grand old legends.
I thought the Strokes were boring, mediocre derivative shit with nice trousers and haircuts. The NME pretty much died wanking over them at the time. Their influence is writ large with a certain generation that were coming of age in 2000 who cite them as a big deal – because they’d never heard The Modern Lovers, The Velvet Underground or Television.
Oddly enough, I played the Strokes debut at the weekend, as Offspring The Elder expressed an interest. It hasn’t aged well – one idea stretched out to half an hour. No desire to explore further.
I always preferred Franz Ferdinand at the time.
Actually, Franz Ferdinand fit the OP too.
I don’t see why a teenager in the year 2000ish should be ridiculed for being inspired by The Strokes (or other bands from the late 90s/early 00s to want to learn the guitar/start a band, or for not having yet heard the bands that influenced them. Of course they’re going to be an influence, just like The Clash are going to be an influence on musicians born in the mid-60s, for example.
In the late eighties I was ridiculed for liking The Beatles, which is a bit strong coming from people liking Bon Jovi and Poison.
..it’s nothing to be scared off.
The Strokes really were a poor version of the Modern Lovers. I simply couldn’t believe the hype they received at the time, and I was 21 when they got big. It was one last attempt by the NME to have that symbiotic relationship with a band: we hype you, you sell loads/we put you on the cover, we sell loads.
I’m convinced this is the reason why the so-called ‘great’ albums do often disappoint a bit. Obviously not that they tend to bad – lots are very good and inspiring – but as someone who thinks Revolver has 2-3 iffy songs, the reality can never live up to the ridiculous hype.
Geez, does no one like The Strokes? The second album, Room On Fire is the keeper. I saw them live once in 2004 and they came out and made *that* sound and I thought they were rather excellent. I’m not sure of the point of saying “something something Modern Lovers” because (a) The Strokes themselves seem clear about their DNA, they don’t deny it, (b) Almost every act is standing on someone’s shoulders (c) Elvis Costello was similarly sniffy about Primal Scream’s Rocks while I was bopping to it at the student disco in 94 and it seems to miss the point. The Strokes are ludicrous and funny and they have a bunch of great tunes, and they fit the maxim that the best groups look like cartoons.
I thought this recently when listening to a recent Pick of the Pops from some year in the 90s. All the indie stuff sounded really dated – but all the R&B that was played (which I wouldn’t have liked much at the time, cloth eared git that I was) stood up really well. Oh and to the OP’s point, I got a copy of “I Should Coco” from Poundland recently (for a pound). Bloody marvellous album – still sounds great.
and their second album – In It for the Money – is even bloody marvellous-er
Yes, I Should Coco still gets played a lot by me.
I just want to say I still love 10cc to this day. Those first four albums are things of wonder. However, the world seems to have moved on.
It has. But Graham Gouldman still tours around the country as 10cc, playing the hits and selling out 1500 – 2000 seat concert halls. So there are still a fair number out there who remember.
10cc albums sell for 5-6 quid second hand – they’re unfashionable at the moment whereas their contemporaries like Hall and Oates, Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac are selling out enormodomes and have a new generation of kids into them – and that Queen biopic has made a massive impact too. 10CC seem forgotten, I don’t think it’s entirely down to them not touring as a full band – , I think their particular sound is a bit too arch and a bit pastiche-y and rather cold – doesn’t play well these days – it’s VERY 1970s – but maybe they’ll come back into vogue.
Yup, 10cc has not aged well. Unless you are Tigger, virtually unlistenable today
Strangely it is the early singles that have lasted better than the clever songs of their classic period, shortly ahead of Godley and Creme leaving.
However, in I’m Not In Love they did produce a song that escaped their orbit completely to join the pantheon of ubiquity. As relevant on local radio now as 20 years ago.
I’m with Tigger. Reckon the cee-cee are worth revisiting. Yes, they were arch, oddball and overly obsessed with Americanisms, early on especially. But they were also totally unique, funny and melodious. I’m talking the Godley and Creme era.
I rather liked 10cc back then but to my mind it just don’t stand up today. But that’s the funny thing, the music stays the same but times and we change.
Another example to most probably annoy Tiggs – I worshipped early Talking Heads and was hugely disappointed when it turned into a DB Vanity Project, thirteen drummers, twenty three guitarists, as many back-up singers as he could cram on stage. Nowadays I find to my horror that a lot of the early stuff comes across as too mannered, too arty and that it’s the later stuff in all its multi-layered glory that I love. All IMHO of course (with the proviso I am never Wrong)
Well I love all Talking Heads.
Did you hear the complete original soundtrack of True Stories, released last year? A lot of the incidental music is n’t worth multiple revisits but put the cast recordings on the band’s studio True Stories and you have a cracking album.
Indeed!
Yes I still like the Tens, as no one ever called them. Far too clever for the pop charts and too quirky for the rockers, I fear.
Then….a big name at Live Aid. But I do not think anyone will be doing a biopic of the Thomson Twins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTaKMU_JuIc
Now…They couldn’t even fill the backroom at the Dog and Dumpling.
The Thompson Twins have aged very well, or their early stuff anyhow
Baffled how their career just petered out to nothing
See also ABC and Heaven 17
ABC are lucratively plying the play some old with an orchestra at pretty big venues, Thompson Twins are now only one, and do the cheapo oldies tour circuit. Heaven 17 drift between nostalgia gigs and heritage gigs (a subtle but important difference between the 2, usually in the advertising)
Thompson Twins killed their career with their godawful Live Aid performance, IMHO
It’s also worth noting that ABC were terrific, with at least one nailed on classic album.
The Thompson Twins were, well, the Thompson Twins.
I thought of the Spin Doctors, I even bought the album (the Two Princes one) and it’s not my thing at all. But it really was crap wasn’t it?
And I’ll add my love for 10cc to the above, still underrated.
I read somewhere that the Spin Doctors quite literally went back to playing in bars. Their reasoning was sound: they love playing music, and they’ll play it whether or not they’re popular.
I recall reading something in a primary source (i.e. reading in the present from a source of ‘back in the day’, as opposed to recalling from the time itself) that the Tom Robinson Band was the absolute apex of the new wave – and, unless I’m mistaken, all anyone recalls is that singalong 2468 thing and the ‘Glad to Be Gay’ Secret Policeman’s Ball clip. I presume they made albums?
Similarly, I read a deeply earnest piece on what was just beginning to be termed ‘jazz rock’ (‘pop jazz’ or ‘jazz pop’ were other terms, equally used at that point) in, I think, a Melody Maker from 1969 in which the writer predicted that Taste and the Keef Hartley Band would be the genre’s prime movers.
TRBs debut album Power In The Darkness is definitely worth 40 minutes of anyone’s time
Absolutely agree with this. Great album. And Tom is still very much worth seeing today.
Thirded. TR’s stint covering for Johnny Walker demonstrates his (and at times TRB’s) Steely Dan penchant.
Like most of the successful New Wave bands what was new was the singer’s non-voice and a bit of a snotty attitude. The band themselves were great musicians and it showed. See also The Only Ones.
How about REM?
Anyone, REM?
I don’t think REM could be considered Insignificant’ in any way, shape or form. They ended their career on their own terms whilst remaining friends. Their latter albums didn’t sell as massively as at their peak, but they were still a huge live draw. They were arguably a different band after Bill Berry left, but perhaps his departure made them more musically experimental and adventurous, and the critical consensus suggests they never made a bad album. No, not even Around The Sun…for me, especially not Around The Sun.
I would never have thought if them as irrelevant – they are generally revered aren’t they?
Similarly, Crowded House?
They were posited as possibly being so in the context of the OP question.
They were massive and are now forgotten or disregarded anyway
Probably because of the succession of mediocre albums they made after Bill Berry left. I think they’ll be ripe for re evaluation in a couple of years
@thegp
Thank you. Kind of what I meant!
Well, I contend otherwise above. Forgotten by who? Having been retired for eight years tends to take them out of the public eye, but I wouldn’t say any of their work has been ‘disregarded’ or dismissed during the interim. It is what it was, no better or worse.
I’m sure that if they re-formed there would be huge critical rejoicing and mass interest. The fact that they have no intention of doing so adds to their abiding credibility.
Not that I’m bitter or anything but I’ve been thinking about this for a while and don’t think I got my point across by just saying “How about REM?” Or indeed “Anyone, REM?”
They were huge , properly huge but I don’t think anyone mentions them now as an influence or as credible.
Oh, I don’t know!
I think everyone’s just too embarrassed to admit that Up was their only good album.
I saw this in updates and assumed you were talking about Right Said Fred.
I’ve never heard Sex and Travel so I can’t comment.
I loved REM from 1983 to about 1990. The first few albums up to and including “Green” are all brilliant. Lost faith around the time of “Shiny Happy People” which to my ears is a naff song from an otherwise good, if not great, album. From then on it was all diminishing returns, apart from the occasional very good song. But I would have thought calling them insignificant is a tad harsh even now.
The Tom Robinson Band were indeed, very popular, back in the day.
I rather liked this song from slightly later in his career.
I suspect there are many artists who are not so well remembered today that made their reputation by doing a lot of gigs and putting on a memorable live show.
The Sensational Alex Harvey Band, Dame Vera Lynn, Edgar Broughton Band, Kenny Ball’s Jazzband, Grand Funk Railroad, Family, The Global Village Trucking Company, Acker Bilk, Pink Fairies, Graham Parker and the Rumour,
And then there are those who became household names thanks to the patronage of the right DJ:
Principal Edwards’s Magic Theatre, Tyrannosaurus Rex,
The Britpop bandwagoneers – or any band with a Rickenbaker signed by a Record Company around 1992
The Bluetones
Cast
Gene
Marion
The Seahorses
Menswear
Mansun
Hurricane #1
and many more who never really stamped a lasting legacy
Big things expected, media support a-plenty, but never really delivered:
Kula Shaker
You forgot Northern Uproar, and so did everyone else.
World Party seemed important, to the point of becoming a little self-important and humourless by the time of Bang. I caught them at a small bar in Oxford a few years ago and it can’t have been half full. Shame as he seems much nicer now!
But didn’t Karl Wallinger have some illness that struck him down for quite a number of years just after they had hit the big time ?
Also, didn’t he make a mint from the royalties for the cover of “She’s The One” by Robbie Williams ?
Both true. He touched on both at the concert I saw and was self deprecating, funny and very entertaining.
I remember an interview with KW trying to take the credit for “The whole of the moon” which is laughable so I’ve always thought of him as a bit of a moaner. OOAA.
Slade. Then – Three singles straight in at number one (When singles sold in bucketloads)
A much lauded live act
Critically acclaimed run of albums
Stealing the show at Reading Festival 1980 amongst a sea of headbangers
Now – Merry Christmas Everybody
Roy Wood only seems to come out in December too
Roy Wood’s gay?!
He’s put a great big smile on somebody‘s face
Boom!
Have an up ! (so to speak).
I don’t think Slade were critically acclaimed at all; indeed, they were underrated as musicians and songwriters, if not performers, due to the outrageous/cartoonish image. It always rankled with Jim Lea that they weren’t taken more seriously.
I saw them on the cusp of fame when they were booked into my Teacher Training College. Some of us had heard of them and had seen the skinhead pictures, so there were no great expectations – they were fantastic and we rebooked them. In the meantime they had their first hit, but still fulfilled the gig, bless ’em.
As an aside – my claim to fame is that I rode in the back of their van because they pitched up at the wrong building, so I jumped in with (who I later realised was) Noddy and navigated them to the right one.
In May 1972 Slade appeared at The Lincoln Festival or the Great Western Express. People around me were a bit sniffy that Slade were on, you know because they were considered a pop band. They were absolutely magnificent and ahem “blew the crowd away.”..Thinking back that was such a fabulous roster at that festival, including a very early gig for The Average White Band who were also tremendous. Others on the bill included Rory, The Beach Boys, The Faces, Lindisfarne and lots more
No…not Slade.
They are well loved and remembered in pubs and places I frequent.
Granted MCE is the only thing aired these days but, the biggest crowd I’ve seen in my local gig pub was for a Slade tribute act.
Everybody knew the words to every song, even the smattering of pensioners.
This was in April..and when the band came back on for the encore in Santa hats, the roof lifted.
Erm … isn’t that Slade single called “Merry Xmas Everybody”, rather than “Merry Christmas Everybody”?
Gosh! If you’re fussy about that, you must really hate the spelling on some of their other big hits…
The goldfish memory of the average punter.
Elvis is no longer The King. Of those who do know his name, hardly any could name one of his songs. Not many will know who Frank Zappa was, or could name the other two blokes in the Jimi Hendrix experience.
Unless a Beatles-scale publicity machine is behind anybody, they fade from public consciousness eventually, leaving only us weirdos to carry their flames.
And what a strange mixture of eccentric flames we each carry too!
Vinicius de Moraes is one of mine,
Not to mention Tom Jobim, who is tinkling the ivories in this clip.
Most of the people I can think of were one hot wonders, but I think that maybe goes against the spirit of the question.
What about Chris Rea? Or is he still popular? He was absolutely huge in the eighties.
Shaun Ryder is nowadays a weird kind of National Treasure, more widely known as a guest star on various ITV shows than as a pop star to anyone under 35. Happy Mondays still have cred in music circles, but people rarely mention Black Grape. Their first album went to Number One in a sea of trad Britpop and is by some distance the best album he’s made.
I played It’s Great When You’re Straight on Friday. I always liked the second one more than most too, but the third (last year? The year before?) only got a couple of plays.
Razorlight, anyone? Though I accept that it’s a moot point as to whether they were ever credible in the first place.
American Music Club.
A string of great albums, fantastic songs, lauded by Rolling Stone magazine……
And hugely hyped by one writer in the Melody Maker. I don’t think they really pricked the public consciousness, did they? Their biggest gig was the marquee at Reading Festival. It was fantastic, mind.
No, your right – AMC never troubled the charts or had a very high profile. More of a cult following (always great live).
Mark Eitzel is still fantastic live. (And announced two London dates today, BTW.)
I was convinced The Shamen were the future of music when I saw them at Glastonbury 1992. They weren’t, and their schtick has not aged well – but at least they weren’t the fucking Wonderstuff.
I hadn’t thought about the Shamen for years until Super Hans got married on Peep Show:
The Shamen are a good call. One of the first real ‘bands’ to emerge from acid. I may have written elsewhere that the first wave of these bands rather crashed and burned, almost as flawed prototypes for what a 90s dance band should be. The second wave: Underworld, Chemicals, Leftfield, Orbital cleaned up the critical acclaim and album sales.
I would like to offer that stalwart of the charity shop vinyl selection, Mr Leo Sayer.
He was big from the mid 1970s into the mid 1980s, especially so after Richard Perry started producing him. One No 1, four No 2s and a handful more of top 10 hits. Plus, as the chazzas testify, lots of album sales.
I couldn’t understand the popularity. From the start in his ridiculous pierrot suit through his ‘soul’ period, it all just passed me buy. But for so many, he was the bees knees.
I’m not posting any YouTube clip and you’ll probably thank me for that.
I’d suggest only a handful of bands/musicians could ever truly claim to continue to influence multiple generations of musicians/artists. I’m thinking the Beatles, Bowie etc. When was the last time you heard a new aritst say they were directly influenced by Elvis? These days it’s more likely to be Public Enemy, Madonna or Kraftwek.
Some bands will experience a bit of a renaissance, or their influence will skip a generation. I don’t remember many Britpop bands ever say they were influenced by U2, or The Clash or Talking Heads, or R.E.M but they’re four bands whose influence can be found in the next group of bands that arrived in the late 90s. Coldplay or The Libertines for example.
The rest are presumably happy to inspire the next generation and leave it at that.
Wait.
It’s just come to me. GILBERT O’SULLIVAN!!
He’s playing Wickhmam Festival if you fancy a trip down south?
Who cares?
He’ll be alone again, naturally.
Credible when?
When nothing rhymed.
Congratulations, Mr Hump on your hamper thread.
👏👏👏
Bit suspicious of this Mr Hump…. comes in from nowhere, nabs a hamper like it’s the easiest thing on earth when we all know (at least I do) life just ain’t that easy. Have we checked his or her credentials especially those obvious links to Bezos and Putin?
Thanks Tiggerlion. What’s a hamper thread?
Thanks @tiggerlion. What’s a hamper thread?
The rumour is that the mods send a hamper to the initiator of a thread attracting a hundred comments. This one is now a double hamper. It may be that it’s a joke and that you don’t get one really. It’s a virtual hamper.
In that case, I’m virtually honoured.
Don’t get the hump if you don’t get the hamper, Mr Hump.
Don’t dump on Hump the hamper champ!
Hey, don’t be a grump…Mr Hump ain’t no chump, unlike Mr Trump!
Sorry.I had the hump because I thought I had a lump.
It was just a cramp.
It must be the damp.
If I am not mistaken, I saw Mr Hump lurking around the Troika Laudromat. I suspect he may have some dirty laundry in his potting shed!
Either that or he has a magnificent ability to ask the right questions
.
Deacon Bloody Blue. Big for a couple of albums then obscurity. I happened to hear Dignity last week and couldn’t help wondering what all of the fuss was about.
Likewise Sutherland Brothers and Quiver – propelled to Premiership contenders by lending Sailing to Rod Stewart and their own moderate hit Arms of Mary. They made some very good albums but sadly ended up also rans.
Deacon Blue still big up here, possibly helped by Dougie Vipond’s TV presenting. Filled the Usher Hall just a couple of years ago.
Edit: I was curious enough to check – 3 albums of new material this decade, all UK top20 and Scottish top 10. So there ya go. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon_Blue_discography )
I heard a recent Deacon Blue song and it wasn’t bad – I had no idea they bothered the charts these days though.
I confess to being somewhat surprised myself. Though in my case it’s probably because I can’t even remember the last time I looked at the charts – years ago anyway 😳
@stevet : they sold out Symphony Hall in september. I had a ticket but forgot to go(!?) Apparently they were terrific.
I went to a wedding recently, the DJ was having a torrid time getting anyone to dance. There then appeared a singer who sang along to backing tracks. He was doing ok, better than the DJ, but not much, then to my horror his next song began with the unmistakable intro to ‘Dignity’ I inwardly exclaimed* ‘what are you doing, no-one will dance to this’. To my shock and surprise the whole dance floor was suddenly rammed with youngsters – the bride was 30 and this was her, the groom and all of their mates plus a selection of random relatives. The only other song to get the same reaction was by Wet Wet Wet . Go / figure.
[The DJ was obviously paying attention and swiftly dropped the chart fodder he had been playing, his first song after his break was by The Real Thing, which of course, went down a storm.]
*If that’s possible
The general public are a strange bunch.
I was asked at the weekend to ‘help with’ (meaning ‘do everything’) a 1980s disco in the village hall. The lady doing the asking is a civilian.
Her suggested playlist included all the plinky-plonky chart pap you can hear on a loop on Heart FM, one hit wonders, soundtrack hits from the likes of Kenny Loggins, Rod Stewart’s ‘Baby Jane’ and lots of Hair Metal. When I suggested Perfect Skin, The Whole of the Moon, Don’t You Want Me, True Faith and – yes – Dignity, she looked at me like I had gone completely insane.
“I think we had very different experiences of the 80s” I said, trying to keep it polite.
Quiver were a kind of houseband at the Roundhouse for the Implosion gigs on Sunday afternoon, Always very enjoyable but they lacked a charismatic frontman until the Sutherland boys turned up.
They still sound very agreeable!
I haven’t heard – or even thought – about the Sutherland Brothers & Quiver in some 40-odd years (they were big on Radio Caroline in the mid-late 70s), so how come I can remember that it was Tim Renwick on lead guitar there?
The Darkness ubiquitous to “you what?” In the time it took Justin to zip up his cat suit. “Permission To Land” however remains timeless….
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned the big Mancunian elephant in the room. Of course, I’m talking about soon-to-be Broadway dame, Steven Morrissey. Even some of his most recent, new album recent, collaborators have had to backtrack on their association with him after finding out about his political ‘insights’… and yet he remains hugely popular. So has he ‘lost’ credibility only on the personal level, or should he be judged on the diminishing returns of the music? Does his still-vast audience carry a torch for who and what he was, or do they actually like the stuff he churns out these days? It’s a conundrum, and no mistake…
There was a time when it seemed the world wanted a Smiths or Jam reunion. Now thanks to the endless bellendery of the two frontmen not so much…
UB40 were considered cutting edge in the early years. Over time they became essentially a covers band and then split up in a confusing way. Their original songs were often really good. The last one I remember was Sing our own Song back in 1986/7. I suppose once they had big success with Labouf of Love they thought “ker-ching” and went with that.
Good call. Hard to imagine now but UB40 where once great . Here’s “King” to remind us
Yes. And an ‘early’ band for t’other thread.
Simple Minds. Several impeccably cool/cred albums, then several massively uncool but hugely popular albums. And then the rest of their career, which has been neither cool nor popular.
But Empires and Dance/Sisters Feelings Call/Sons and Fascination remain a template for ‘going Krautrock’. These albums were in the 90s 00s and I suspect continue to be shamelesly plundered for samples.
I would agree that though ‘New Gold Dream’ at the time was hailed as impossibly good, its the slightly earlier period that continues to be relevent.
UB40’s first album is great. Good singles and not a lot of filler. As a ska fan at the time I kind of lumped them in with the midlands reggae/ska thing that was huge around 79-81.
I have a one inch head.
One of this thread’s interesting aspects is the identification of those bands artists that ‘just won’t go away’ even if they become unplayed/unloved for a few years. I guess going through older siblings’ collection will become a thing of the past, if it hasn’t already due to streaming etc, but that used to be a guaranteed way of ‘taste’ being passed down or ‘geniuses’ being rediscovered & then re-cycled into junior’s garageband.
My 18 year old hangs out with a ‘cool’ rock crowd round here – the sort where almost everybody is in at least one band & they often overlap line ups – from basic punky re-treads to astonishing levels of musicianship at very young ages. They listen to pretty much everything but it seems at the moment at least, The Artic Monkeys is the sound template you can hear in nearly all them, much to my 18 year old’s disdain. TAM for whatever reason are a huge influence- my guess is they’re British, quite snotty early on & have an impressive drummer, which all factors into what ver kids enjoy when getting a jam on.
Not sure what they play for encores – bands I was in always argued over ‘White Light White Heat’ ‘Police & Thieves’ or ‘Blockbuster’ , which were dead giveaways of our true loves but I wouldn’t be surprise to hear Sabbath or Zeppelin – what days we live in eh?
I’ve said it before but my son listens to loads of stuff and his exposure to a lot of it has been because tracks are used on video games and Guitar Hero.
Was asked by the 13 year old the other week whether I had “Carry On Wayward Son” by Kansas on my phone and I could only boggle at her. (The answer was “nuh-uh” btw.) She’d heard it on “Supernatural” apparently. She’s also becoming partial to the odd AC/DC track in amongst all the EDM stuff that blares from her room.
The Moody Blues.
Then: From late 67 onwards … huge, sold shedloads around the world, No. 1 LPs when The Beatles, Dylan and The Stones were the opposition, even singles.
Now: Rarely, if ever, mentioned – at all by anyone – not even me!
I’ve a theory about this.
The lead singer is just an all round nice fella. The kind of person who you really would enjoy meeting in a pub. More so than Paul or Bob or Keith or Mick. Turns up on time. Genuinely respects the people who go to see the group. Humble, softly spoken, happily married, good looking, well dressed etc. etc.
If Justin Hayward was a prize pillock like Pete Doherty (whose various acts have sold about 0.0001% of The Moody Blues’ worldwide sales) they’d still be revered and name-checked and would be Mojo/RC/Uncut cover regulars.
Nail on head really. If Hayward had a fraction of, say, Macca’s ‘How many Netherlands Number Ones have you written? Eh? Eh?’ attitude, not only might the band have retained some credibility through the middle age spread years, we could have been spared many, many sub-par non-Hayward album tracks. And Ray Thomas might have been told to get changed before this was recorded:
That’s an interesting point. For what it’s worth, I have thought of Coldplay as a Generation X Moody Blues because they have sold a shed load of albums this century while losing any long-term credibility, but this might also be because Chris Martin is an obviously nice, level-headed guy that no one wants to reads about about.
The MBs had some fookin boss tunes. Excellent combination of voices and some imaginative /production arrangements. Some risible lyrics but, hello, Jim Morrison? Arthur Lee? In short, all part of the fun.
It’s quite nice that they aren’t hammered to Classic Rock death like Floyd or Zep or Cream. Bless ’em.
There’s a case to be made that the Mahavishnu Orchestra’s cachet has diminished since Mk1 split at their critical peak (and on the cusp of making millions in the following year), after 2 1/2 years of incessant touring – mostly in the US but also two trips to Europe and one to Japan.
Anyone leafing through the music press of 1972-73 can’t help but see that the MO were regarded as the pinnacle – way beyond anything else in terms of onstage power and musicianship. ‘Music of the Gods’ was one Melody Maker headline.
Since then, their ‘credibility’ may not have diminished as such, but their memory has diminished – outside of the cognoscenti – and in large part that’s because there’s no one actively tending the legacy. John McLaughlin has always been a ‘today, not yesterday’ man, while other ex-members have their issues with the way the band split and the way Sony/Columbia handles royalties. This last item has apparently caused some archive trawl ideas – including the astounding ‘Wild Strings’ 1972 live recording – to be stymied.
Since MO Mk1 split in December 1973, there have only been two disc’s worth of previously unreleased material – ‘The Lost Trident Sessions’ and an extra disc of live tracks from the ‘Between Nothingness & Eternity’ concerts, in the ‘Complete Columbia Albums’ 5CD set. Both were probably already covered by existing contracts, hence no new permissions from aggrieved ex members (bar John) needed. (I’m only speculating about this.)
Compare this situation with that of King Crimson, where Robert Fripp is actively and brilliantly stoking the legacy on a regular basis with box set after box set from their vintage era (1969-74).
This 13-minute TV recording of part of a live show in 1973 gives a fair idea of the MO at the height of its power. Look on this, ye mortals, and despair…
Look on this, mere mortals, and play descending circle of eighths arpeggios over a Bmin11aug5th bed for 28 minutes.
😀
In the world of hip-hop, many are the artists who were press darlings for a few months before fading from view. This is partly because the curse of the second album bites very hard in hip-hop (unless you’re Public Enemy, ahem). Example: the Ultramagnetic MCs were hailed as the innovating heroes of the underground in 1988-9 – their second album, two years later, died on its arse and wasn’t even released in the UK.
The example that springs to mind for me is Mantronik. In 1985-7 they were routinely mentioned alongside Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, LL Cool J and Eric B & Rakim as the monarchs of the genre – they had proper hit singles like Who Is It and Basslines and were a staple of the music mags.
In 1987-8 the genre was on the move because of the coming dominance of the loop sample, which suddenly made Mantronix’s electro-heavy production sound quite clunky. Also, MC Tee didn’t have anything very interesting to say, which was a negative in the era of Chuck D and Rakim.
The other artists I mentioned are still (Paul) revered – even Run DMC managed to move with the times fairly successfully, and their logo is now almost as recognisable as those of AC/DC or Kiss. Who is listening to Mantronik? No-one, not even me.
There are a fair number of hip-hop artists who released ‘critically acclaimed’ albums in the early 90s, who have just faded from view. Often because they just happened to be around at the wrong time – Gang Starr, Arrested Development, The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, The Pharcyde.
Maybe it’s my age, but I hadn’t of any of those until recently. Whereas, their contempories (e.g. De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Wu-Tang Clan + the ones you’ve mentioned) are still fairly well known.
Disposable Heroes was a one album project. Gang Starr was over when Guru died (I think their music is still highly regarded). DJ Premier is one of the producers on the upcoming De La Soul album..
Hiphoprisy were never going to last – they were rather one-note, too much like a civics lesson.
Funny to think that Television was played on Steve Wright in The Afternoon – perhaps it was the Deck of Cards of its day.
What a lot of nonsense I talk!
If television is the drug of the nation, what’s afternoon radio – Spud’s shit-stained sheets?
The connection between Wrighty having a chinnywag with The Posse and a load of shite doesn’t need to be proved.
The Police. Did anybody on here ever take Sting seriously again after the dreaded tantra story? Yes, good drummer, decent guitarist, some good songs, but him?
The Police were never credible, from their early days yawping in the Marquee to the derision of punk audiences. Sting was always a figure of fun. The tantric lute-spanking was merely more grist to the mill.
Probably one of my ten favourite artists. Cool and credibility can get it up them.
Just like the old man in that famous book by Nabakov really.
Caught between the Scylla and Charybdis.
He’s got his hand in the air like the other, er, chaps.
It makes me wonder how can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer’s deadly toy?
I hope the Geordies love their children too, yaboogaman.
I hope so too Moose. A connecting principle, linked to the invisible. Almost imperceptible if you think about it. Something inexpressible, science insusceptible, logic so inflexible, yet causally connectible. So, if you think about it, nothing is invincible.
If we share this nightmare, then we can dream.
Spiritus mundi and all that.
Too much information, driving me insane!
You stay. I may as well play keep it up. Keep it up!
When that eloquence escapes me, the logic ties me up and is awfully fresh with me.
Well, just remember, you don’t have to wear that dress tonight. Walk the streets for money instead.
Behave. You two just don’t care if it’s wrong or if it’s right.
It’s so hard to tell. Earlier I made love to my pillow but it didn’t feel right.
When The Police came into being, I disapproved of white boys playing Reggae, especially cartoon reggae. Then, Eddie Murphy singing Roxanne in 48 Hours gave them credibility. Didn’t last long, though.
Still more, Eddie Catflap: “Rooooooxane, you don’t have to stick a message up a bottle”
The Police were bandwagon-riders who saw a post-punk opportunity and grabbed it. Sting is and probably always was a pompous twat. Unfortunately, a pompous twat who wrote some very good songs in between the episodes of twattery.
Andy Summers is a very accomplished guitarist with a superb pre-Police pedigree but seems a bit dull.
Stewart Copeland is a good drummer, also with a pre-Police pedigree of sorts. Plainly wishes to piss Sting off at any given opportunity these days.
I can’t listen to any Police songs these days. It all sounds horribly dated to me.
but don’t you just love listening to ‘dated’ sometimes? Quite often, even.
Dated in the wrong way, somehow. And although there are no bad associations attached, there’s no particularly pleasant nostalgia attached either.
Also, I assert that The Police’s ubiquity paved the way for Simple Minds’ descent into bogus pomp and the rise of U2.
I wouldn’t say they’ve become insignificant now, however. Their influence on the sound of modern guitar rock has been huge.
Not unless you think guitar rock itself is now insignificant.
I was 13 or so when The Police came into view so didn’t really pick up that they were jumping on any bandwagon – they were just really exciting.. Never really liked Roxanne but Message in a Bottle, So Lonely, Can’t Stand Losing You and Bed’s Too Big are incredible songs. Each album had at least one really good single on it. Synchronicity was not great but the song Synchronicty II is triffic.
In, what, 40 years I am sure we have all done, said or written down stupid things. And he has an earnest streak that just begs to be ridiculed. But overall I think he’s good value and I like him.
Three final words about Mr Sting: Little Tommy Squeaker.
Oh go on then
As it’s The Afterword, surely Richard Thompson should have the final word on Sting?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCGlkwDaf7c
Surprised no mention of Kula Shaker in this thread. Quite liked the first album at the time.
Au contraire, Rigid Digit about halfway up the thread. Yes, had their moments but those lyrics, dear oh dear..
Ah, apologies for missing that. I thought the lyrics were amusing and did not immediately realise they were not intentionally so. It was when the singer said something to the effect that “The death of a cow is as bad as the death of a baby.” that I thought “You, sir, are a dick.”
I had iTunes on random play this morning and up popped Lucky Man by The Verve. That album – Urban Hymns – was everywhere in 1998. I quite liked it – and indeed quite liked hearing Lucky Man again, possibly for the first time this century.
That album was number one for like ten weeks.
If you want “insignificant now” see the reviews of Richard Ashcroft’s last album. Oucheroonie!
The Twang.
Not our Twang, obvs.
I’m prepared to cut Andy Summers some slack.
(a) not a 60s dodger.
(b) played/lived in 60s London/met Jimi et al very early in the proceedings.
(c) exceedingly drunk at the Brits, or it’s equivalent, in about 1984, and called everyone in the building a bunch of f****** w*******.
You know, the one that Prince was at.
Prince, being, on that night, in that very building, the very definition of the term –
“f****** w******.”
It must be on You Tube.
Andy’s rockumentary about the Police tour a few years ago has some Spinal Tap touches.
The soundtrack features only his Police songs – apart from a chance visit to a karaoke bar in the Far East where they happen to be playing Every Breath you Take. He joins in with the locals, beanie hat pulled down over his head. Then he reveals who he is by pulling off his hat! Wa hoo! Not sure if anyone in the bar is any the wiser.