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Come back…….

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It seems that HMS Afterword is hitting some turbulence and the lifeboats have been launched. So the political threads have frightened the horses…. No change there, they have always harboured inflammatory remarks and unpleasantnesses. BREMAIN/BREXIT was always going to have the full quotient of invective and, unlike the result, did not disappoint. But like old men in macs shouting in deserted bus stations, why should a music lovers site have to fold because of that volume? The Fall would be a popular band were that the case.
Remember all those songs in Gangles REMAIN list? Think of them as songs for the AW(shucks)REMAIN movement. Why should we lose 2 things many of us love in one week?

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Comments

  2. Oh, is the Afterword closing down? Do we get to vote on this?

    What we need is some kind of system where several conversations can run concurrently, and people choose which ones they want to be part of. So some could discuss weighty affairs of state, and get a bit passionate about it. Others could play Top Trumps with video clips, and everyone would be free to come and go between the two as they wished, or start their own conversation about something else

  3. This is probably a good a thread as any to announce my retirement. I have purchased a hillfort in Devon where I intend to get naked, spannered and skronk until Light has prevailed and Balance is restored. I have a Kali Yuga hamper of goodies to see me through. How about you ? I hope so too.
    God bless the Star Children. XXXX

    Hari H Corbett _/\_

  5. Perhaps everyone has gone off to worry about what is going to happen next. The only people on TV insisting that everything is going to be fine are people I loathe. My kids don’t understand it because all they hear is talk about getting rid of the immigrants and not what happens during the impending recession.

    Meanwhile, I sold an item on eBay on Friday to someone in the US for way more than expected due to the fall in sterling. It’s certainly a funny old world. I’m just glad I built that bunker.

  6. Actually, I’ve been surprised at how little Brexit discussion there’s been here during the campaign to be honest. I expected it to get much more heated but thankfully it it never did

    As for turbulent waters, lifeboats etc we go through this every summer i.e. it goes a little quiet and somebody suggests that everyone has had enough. I don’t see any evidence at all that it’s any different right now

  8. Is this about comments on Facebook where some people are disenchanted and particularly so in relation to the intensity and what is seen by some as gloating re Brexit?

    The first few days since the most momentous decision since joining the EU ,and on a knife edge vote on such riven issues -its to be expected.

    For mine, I found much of the debate highly informative and have quoted some contributions elsewhere.

  9. Well, I’m not going anywhere.
    (that might actually cause a mass exodus for the undecided and disenfranchised)

    One big issue in the world (or the UK at least) and it is bound to detract from the YouTube threads and Lists.
    Yes, it’s getting predictable with in-fighting but surely not to the levels seen in other Social Media in the past couple of days.
    A friend of mine was openly abused to his face by a another friend of several years for having the audacity to voice his opinion.

    On the plus side, I’m off to Spain on Friday – I wonder if (a) I’ll be allowed back in, and (b) the AW will have returned to calmer waters

  10. I think the conversations about the EU have been conducted in a pretty good sprit in the main. In the past some of these sort of threads have descended into nastiness and rancour (sometimes by me, sorry everyone) but this one has been a credit to all of us.

    Anyway been listening to a new Adrian Sherwood comp, I may post about that.

  11. I’d checked out long before the referendum though I doubt anyone noticed. More a break doing other stuff, though, than a flounce, although it was triggered by a spat with someone.

  12. It’s an awful shame if people are leaving in reaction to things that have been said in the last few days. The UK is going through the biggest constitutional crisis of our lives, and of course emotions are high. It’s not indicative of anything other than that if someone gets a bit fightey. Yes, so we could all probably name one or two people who we think are deliberately combative, but, here’s the thing, I bet we wouldn’t all come up with the same two names.

  13. I’m going to speak now, because I’m 3/4 cut and want to get it out before I regret it in the morning.

    I’m supremely grateful to the Afterword and its denizens for being the first internet forum where I felt comfortable posting and commenting. I remember one of my first posts, where I asked which Beatle would correspond to which member of Monty Python, and getting a stupendously-detailed and carefully-considered series of responses to my initial inquiry. A veritable oracle of information inconsequential, yet utterly meaningful.

    Since then, I think all of my posts were about asking the Massive in some way or another – getting feedback from cultural attachés with many specific interests related to the Beatles (I joke, of course). A lot of insight, a lot of valued contributions, over the months and years.

    It was an education, getting to know the personalities behind the usernames, recognising musical tastes and styles of posting or commenting on others posts. Names that now resonate with meaning after all the posts and comments I’ve read since 2012. I got to know a fair bit of html as well, which was handy.

    A lot of challenging to my own musical tastes (maybe I should consider Little Feat, Joni Mitchell, XTC, Elvis Costello, Wu-Tang Clan, Robyn, Limp Bizkit more than I had thought worthwhile before?)

    But the Drupal attack took me to Facebook, and Archers groups initially, followed by goth, psychedelic, new wave, ISIHAC, Sisters of Mercy, Spaceman 3 and political sites, where there was an even wider range of posters and commenters than on here.

    I know, I know, that FB is frightfully corporate and quantified and measured for maximum advertising revenue (sorry, Tim), but this ‘friendliest space on the internet’, or whatever was the commonly-accepted description of the Word/Afterword community, has somehow, in part, shrunk to a hot space of back biting.

    I know there was a lot of antipathy to my Consecutive Compendium of Culture as just another YouTube clogged wankfest (my own words), but I genuinely wanted to try a monthly gauge of members’ interests, with the random connection of a single letter each time. Fuck, it wasn’t appreciated. Fuck, I polluted everybody’s newsfeeds with my self-indulgent conceit. Not going to happen again.

    And then KFD came in for even more criticism for sharing his own passions. Good for him, that he has thicker skin than me.

    The regular political threads, well, it’s to be expected that they thrive on argument and counter-argument. Why complain about that? No reason, except I’m not a seasoned political combatant, and whether it’s because I prefer an echo chamber of identikit voices, or the chance to develop my own thoughts in a less-combative (obliterative?) arena, they aren’t really for me.

    Outside the politics, and the curational, ‘museum of authentic rock’ approach to music, which was undeniably a key aspect of The Word magazine, I still relish, and seek out the threads which explore the new (to me) aspects of music and wider culture.

    Having said all that, I feel like the worst, indulgent flouncer: “Make it all better for me”. But that’s not what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to express a quandary – I really appreciate what this site did for me. Fuck, think of that whole year of sketches I thrust at you all, without even the slightest say so (God bless you, tig for sustaining me). I think of Rob’s y- fronts, Burt and Mojo’s Blair vs Beck threads, duco’s exemplary best of year threads, Talking Heads vs Roxy Music, Hendrix vs Cream, Tig’s top 100 albums, the top 10 films, all the personal threads from Neill, Hannah (worst dates), DFB, Nigel, even unto Grey Area… What a repository of human experience, of tastes expressed, of passions exposed! I’ve even still got the HTML for all the Afterword first edition threads of threads that I researched (there’s a monument to redundancy – second hand electric typewriter, anyone?)

    Maybe it is just me and I should just fuck off for a good while until I wake up and smell the coffee, but over the last few months, there’s been the semblance of a sour, superior, cynical note to enough comments to make it an unwelcoming environment for shallow posters like myself.

    Maybe that’s not how anyone else sees it. Shoot me now.

      • We have had a a few of these navel gazing threads in recent times ( not using that pejoratively).

        I agree Brexit is a both a downer and source of intense emotions and anxiety.

        The issue with YouTube, I think, was the preference for some context to posting something.KFD was and is still much loved I think.

        I think the age group has broadened ,could be wrong, but the site has continued to grow post word so it stands to reason that new interests will be canvassed and perhaps less of the old. And as has been explained before without the Monthly word to be a focus for discussion things get more fragmented.

        I have on occasion thought that, if I were a woman, some of the the threads were pretty blokey and while understanding what HP was doing with his All women are dills thread, it would be a confronting topic to see. Now before HP jumps in to defend, I understand what the concept was , let’s prove ourselves to be the dills by citing examples by placing a value on unimportant or ludicrous things. Maybe it was just the heading.

        Some threads take off unexpectedly. I did a thread on roadkill -who knew there was such an interest. But I’ve posted plenty of turkeys too (warning roadkill pun).

        What I am enjoying is the increased number of reviews.

    • I thought a lot of people joined in on the Consecutive Compendium of Culture threads, Sal! Far more than have ever joined in on any thread I’ve ever started. Some people don’t like some threads, natch. Some people even make a point of pointing out that don’t like certain threads (which is a bit peculiar, but whatever floats your boat). So what, I say. Read or don’t. Comment or don’t. But to think that any of this matters is… well, wrong. (And you’ve always been one of my favourite posters*, fwiw.)

      *As in person who posts. I don’t actually have a poster of you. I don’t actually know what you look like. Only that you’re nowhere near as good-looking as me.

      • Aw, thanks guys (have you looked in the mirror recently, bunglie?)
        I was grateful to all who contributed to the CCCs, and when I get around to it, may try some sort of data extraction from them. On tenterhooks, everyone?

    • @salwarpe, you are always a thoughtful, considerate and stimulating poster. I always look forward to your contributions and will miss them if you leave.

      Wherever you go on the Internet (or in the world, for that matter), you will encounter some arseholes and some good people who are arseholes some of the time. There are a tiny number of total arseholes here. My strategy is to ignore them as much as possible but, if I do engage, engage robustly and with good manners. I certainly wouldn’t take anything personally.

      I thoroughly enjoyed your compendium, even if I didn’t always contribute, your discipline with the sketches throughout an entire year was simply awesome, The Afterword top 100 albums would never have happened without you and I am eternally grateful to you for teaching me to listen to Adventure as if Marquee Moon never existed.

      Much love and kisses from me. Mwah.

      • Very much seconded. Om Shanti Sal _/\_ x

        I miss quite a few folks, Sal, Faux, Chubby, too many to mention in total and I can generally only remember/match the AW pseudonyms to the actual people. I honestly think that that blummin’ song by the feckin’ Eagles is right. I’ve left a few times thinking that I’d never bother coming back… I used to contribute a bit for a year or so about 5/6 years ago at the old old place, pre – Burt Sauce era, if I remember correctly. Came back again a few years later just before the old old place folded ( I hope that was a portent – probably not as I didn’t really bother with the mag much in all honesty), and yet…. so… hopefully these groovy people/AW friends are in fact really just on temporary absence of leave. I certainly hope so if they happen to read this.

      • Thank you, sweeties. It’s reassuring to get a little ego massaging, of course. What I’d really like is for that sort of back slapping to spread out like little ripples across the whole site. Good vibes and compliments make everyone happy, I think, and make for a good-natured atmosphere. A slice of lemon adds savour to a GnT, but I wouldn’t want everything to taste of bitter lemons.
        Tig, you are a dedicated and exclusively positive contributor to Afterword well-being, and Rob, my horiscopically-aligned, fellow Year of the Monkey man, your quark, strangeness and charm waft attractively cheesy raptor droppings from way up on high. Two very good reasons to be cheerful!

    • sal – more power to your arm for that post.

      It’ll be to the enormous detriment of this site if we can’t have threads that draw a strong reaction from a comparative minority. Write and post what you want, seek out other like-minded people and if you’re not hurting anyone then ignore those who sneer and condescend.

      This place can be many things to many people – there’s no single correct vision of what the blog is “for”, and if you don’t fancy the look of a thread you can always stroll on to the next one, leaving the chips serenely un-pissed upon. Gary makes the critical point above: none of this actually matters.

      Re: the political threads; I actually think they’re a bit less shirty than they used to be, which is surprising in light of the current climate. I also think it’s tough to get the balance right; echo chambers solve nothing (and are the root of a lot of what’s gone wrong this week, on both sides), killing fields are, to use your term, “obliterative”. Somewhere in the middle is a robust exchange of views, with maybe the odd dig in the ribs along the way. Let’s shoot for that.

      • Thanks for the support, Bingo. I recognise that this site’s what you make it*

        But we don’t post in isolation – every contribution, big or small, positive or negative, affects the atmosphere of the place, the general mood, the sense of what’s appropriate or inappropriate to put here, what will get smiled at, laughed at or scoffed at. And, as a site where posts or comments quite often seem to get little feedback, ‘conversations’ where the tone is measured, constructive and encouraging are, to say the least, preferable to critical slapdowns.

        Of course none of it ultimately matters – except in so far as there’s been a certain amount of emotional investment from any and all who engage with the Afterword. Step away, and you lose the good as well as the bad.

        I was being slightly facetious and paying lip service to those critical of Facebook partisan political groups when I used the expression ‘echo chamber of identikit voices’. No discussion group has people thinking exactly the same. But it can be easier to explore your own political leadings among those sympathetic to your viewpoint, than with those antagonistic to them. Sure, if everybody is speaking with one voice around you, you might be misled into thinking the country thinks alike, but a bearpit encourages entrenchment and hostility, also unhelpful in the current climate.

        Maybe it’d be good to condemn a little less, and explain a little more? Be open to exploration, rather than defensive retorts?

        Or maybe, an amateur chess player, I shouldn’t expect grandmasters to oversimplify their game.
        _______
        * Can’t escape it

  14. I read this morning that the referendum result is not legally binding; parliament does not have to act on its “advice”. The majority of MPs are for Remain.

    What’s the problem here?

    Terms of exit need to be clarified and drawn up, then a second referendum based on those terms, or a straightforward refusal to accept delivered by parliament.

    What a shower.

      • Labour MP David Lammy sez:

        “The referendum was advisory and non-binding, in contrast to the referendum on electoral reform in 2011, which imposed a legal obligation on the government to legislate. Almost 500 members of parliament declared themselves in favour of remain, and it is within their powers to stop this madness through a vote in parliament.

        “It is also within parliament’s powers to call a second referendum, now that the dust has begun to settle and the reality of a post-Brexit nation is coming into view. We need a second referendum at the very least, on the basis of a plan that is yet to even be drawn up.”

        I mean – bloody hell, right? Parliament is under no legal obligation to act on the results of the referendum. Parliament is a pro-Europe majority.

            • good piece but surely Boris has a fourth choice. Run for leader and lose, shouldn’t be too hard to manipulate. Then he can hold his hands up and say he tried but live to fight another day.

          • There’s an interesting notion that’s started floating about…given that this is our biggest political crisis since the war, that Her Maj should dissolve parliament and call for a government of national unity to sort out Dave’s stupendous miscalculation. No idea if this is practical, desirable or even within her powers, and certainly not advocating it. I was intrigued, though…

          • “Was there ever any doubt that what was voted for would be acted on [?]”

            There’s been nothing but doubt all the way, about everything. What is set in stone is the fact that the “decision” come to through the referendum is not legally binding on the government or parliament.
            And that’s a fascinating piece in the Indy.

                  • Hmmm looked at 4 definitions / descriptions including Wiki .

                    No reference to opinion poll. Clearly it is not binding if legal minds in Britain are turning to the notion but it strikes me as very very odd.

                    • Not defined as an opinion poll, but since representatives MPs choose how they vote, that’s effectively what it is.

                      If they were delegates, they’d be obliged to do as their constituents tell them.

                      What’s the situation in Australia?

            • This is probably the best hope, as I have said elsewhere. A very British fudge whereby elected members say ‘spoken have spoke and we have listened’ ‘lessons have been learned’ ‘draw a line under it…’ and so on and so on, creating some sort of conpromise which costs money, satisfies no-one completely and leaves things much as they are. Not something I would usually advocate, but desperate times and all that.

              Only about a quarter of MPs were in favour of leaving and the real pressure now is coming from Europe, where the other EU countries understandably want an end to the uncertainty for their own benefit.

              • Answering Nigel

                Wiki explains it like this:
                A referendum (in some countries synonymous with a plebiscite — or a vote on a ballot question) is a direct vote in which an entire electorate is asked to vote on a particular proposal. This may result in the adoption of a new law.

                Some definitions of ‘plebiscite’ suggest that it is a type of vote to change the constitution or government of a country.[1] However, some other countries define it differently. For example, Australia defines ‘referendum’ as a vote to change the constitution, and ‘plebiscite’ as a vote that does not affect the constitution.[2] In contrast, Ireland has only ever held one plebiscite, which was the vote to adopt its constitution, and every other vote has been called a referendum.

                Importantly a referendum requires a majority of voters AND a majority of States.

                • @junior-wells, I’ve received some clarification (courtesy of a fellow AWer). The referendum we’ve just had was indeed advisory, not mandatory.

                  It was deliberately drafted by parliament not to have legal consequences, unlike the last UK-wide referendum, on changing the voting system from first past the post, which included a provision which made it binding.

                  It may not be the way it’s been done elsewhere, but it’s how it was done here this time.

                  If you want the long version, just ask 🙂

  16. It’s funny people say this is a music lover’s site. The most read threads of the last week (of the ones that make the Most Commented list) are:

    1. Politics
    2. Politics
    3. Navel Gazing
    4. Navel Gazing
    5. Football
    6. Music
    7. Music
    8-10 I-Spy You Tube lists

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