Woke up to this. Absolutely staggered. I guess after the whole Warner thing where DeKock lied and the closeness of the series they are pathological in their determination to win but who cares ? This is just totally fucked, esp given the sanctimony cast about by Australia over “lines” (self defined ) and the stick Du Plessis got for tampering in Sydney.
I’d remove Smith as Captain and abandon the leadership group.What sort of leadership is that? And then they rope newbie Bancroft to execute the plan and now it is Bancroft who gets suspended and has it on his record forever.
They are saying it is underarm 2 but it is worse because this was a conspiracy.
And now the Australian government is calling for Smith to go. I am quite impressed that the Australian public mood seems to be 100% disgusted and embarrassed, without any petty tribalism and blind loyalty. Fair play to them for that (maybe a bad choice of words, but you know what I mean)
If not, at least, sacked as Captain and heavy penaltiers for entire leadership group and a new captain installed from outside that group then thre is a strong chance of mass boycotting of team from Aussie fans. People are saying for 20 years we’ve defended you on the basis of your hard but fair, not cross the line cricket but we’ve had a gutful.
Smith – must lose the captaincy at least, suspended for a good number of games for justice.
Lehman – if he knew anything about it at all, should be sacked immediately for gross stupidity.
Bancroft – deserves to be suspended and fined for going along with it, even if they were telling him to do it.
Whoever else is in this leadership group gets a suspension and a shoeing as well.
Morons, the lot of them. And it’s their first time attempting this ? Really ?
So Smith, Warner and Lehman meet to decide the best way to proceed tactically in the match – I know, let’s cheat, and while we’re at it, lets get the most inexperienced member of the team to carry it out as he won’t dare refuse.
Bancroft must be banned for cheating obviously, but the other three must receive much heavier bans as not only are they much more senior, they hold the most responsible positions in the team hierarchy.
It surely goes without saying that they must be removed from those positions, although it seems they have now stepped down for the remainder of this match anyway, and Smith has lost his IPL captaincy role.
Don’t even get me started on Warner – the biggest sledger in the game makes a complaint when he is outsledged – suddenly it’s not fair! And what is this invisible line of conduct the Aussies seemingly never cross, but other teams do – perhaps they could tell us.
No evidence at all of Lehman’s involvement so far. He may have been so far all denials on that front but you make it like it is a fact.
I’m appalled as you see above. However, I think the fast bowler Rabada getting off was a joke, the authorities allowing the crowd to wear Sonny Boy Williams masks was a disgrace, De Kock saying what he did then barefaced lying was pathetic and the whole series has had great cricket marred by arseholism.
I think he should and will go and I’m looking forward to all ball tamperers being meted similar punishments.
Yes – you apparently call someone’s mother and sister bush pigs, then make an official complaint when you get a mouthful back.
Likewise Lehmann calling on Aussie crowds to barrack Broad the other year, then complaining about abuse from the SA crowd – really?
Are the Aussies really so isolated in their team bubble that they don’t realise what the rest of the cricketing world thinks of them? Their hypocrisy, their high handedness, their mythical line that they never cross but others do – that’s why they have no friends among the other cricketing nations I’m afraid. Smith and Warner should have resigned their positions immediately, not waited to see if they can ‘get away with it’.
According to the BBC sport website ( so it must be true) Smith has refused to stand down. I did think he had more about him. His position , along with Lehmans looks untenable to me.
This just makes me sick in my stomach. I remember a primary school playground chant “cheats never prosper – cheats never prosper”. There’s nothing Smith and co can do to make this right. They’re equal parts cheats and stupid. Cricket is the loser.
Lehman (and Saker too) are being reported here as being part of this ‘leadership group’ – surely the coach would expect to be be involved – and why was he shown on the walkie talkie in the tv footage shortly before the twelveth man ran out onto the field to alert Bancroft that he’d been rumbled – the surprising thing is that Smith and Warner are out on the pitch today instead of being on a plane home. I wonder if they’ll be in the team for the final test.
Unforunately the Aussies don’t have many friends in international cricket.
I agree there are suspicions but Smith said the leadership group was the players group and no coaches involved so I dont think you can assert , at this stage, that Lehmann sat down and conspired with Smith et al.
Having said that just heard Simon Katich calling for Smith Warner AND Lehman to be sacked .
Yep, it’s not clear cut at the moment. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t involved, especially with the walkie talkie business, but it needs to be properly investigated before his head rolls (or not).
Tweet from ABC Grandstand
#BREAKING: Steve Smith suspended for one Test and fined 100 per cent of his match fee. Cameron Bancroft fined 75 per cent, gets three demerit points over ball tampering. #SAvAUS
This is from the ICC. Cricket Australia should add to this pathetic “punishment”
To defend the ICC (something it is very difficult for me to do), they have applied the punishments as laid down in the official disciplinary code.
It is, of course, up to Cricket Australia to apply something more appropriate. The entire ‘leadership group’ should be suspended for a considerable period. Lehmann should stand down. If he knew what was going on, then he is as bad as the players. If he didn’t, then he’s just negligent. Either way he must go.
Assuming Lehman didnt know and they hatched it up before the session in the sheds. They go on he sees the camera shots and says on walkie talkie “ I dont know what you are up to out there but it is not n camera “.
Stuart Broad has a career as a commentator or even a politician waiting for him when he retires (which could be any minute now, they way he’s playing.) When asked if the Australians might have cheated during the Ashes, and how he felt about Lehman moaning about intimidation – after having called for all Australians to help ‘send Broad home in tears’ a few years ago – his answers were a model of how to say everything without saying anything. The boy will go far.
He couldn’t understand why they decided to cheat because they managed to get the ball to swing very successfully during the Ashes when England couldn’t. They should just have carried on doing what they were doing then.
I’m just paraphrasing Broad. He did say that England simply put the difference down to the conditions but the implication that they were cheating back then was pretty clear. Nevertheless, he didn’t say as such.
How were we cheating then ? Broad FFS great competitor but everyone remembers the famous non walk. returned home in tears? Diddums. He played it as tough ss anyone.
These blokkes have fucked up abd will get a penalty from the admin and Australian public.
I realised it was what Broad said. They could have been cheating then doing the same thing, ball tampering. But it was not spotted. Only the Australian team knows.
I didn’t say that if they were doing it then the result would have been different. However several of the tests were fairly even at least at some point of their duration
Yes we could have been cheating, England could have been cheating too but maybe just not as well, or maybe England was cheating and Australia weren’t. Only the players will know.
A bit of ball tampering, if indeed there was any, wouldn’t have changed the outcome of that series – the Aussies were in a different league to England.
England lost the Ashes when the Aussies sent some geezer to pick a fight with Stokes outside a nightclub last summer. That’s not cheating. That’s forward planning.
How can I express my pleasure at these events? It’s not that I dislike Australians, let’s rather say that I dislike and despise a certain type of Australian. The kind that plays cricket. I love to see them lose. And lose.
BTW. since Australia is in the dock @Tahir-W can you give me your view on the following :
The sportsmanship of Virat Kohli
Calling an Australian plauer a monkey
The behaviour of the Sth African cricket team this tour?
England switching an athletic sub on and off the filed solely to gain a fielding advantage.
Doctored pitches to remove any pace ?
Umpiring on the sub continent?
Oh sorry its just the Aussies you hate. Everyone else is ok.
On a lighter note I think Afridi wins this. Geting the pill in your mouth and chomping it mid field.
“Oh sorry its just the Aussies you hate. Everyone else is ok.”
Yep, the cricket team, that is. I support anyone against Australia. Funnily enough, the SA cricket team is one of the few things I really admire about this country at the moment. Especially the team’s diversity combined with effectiveness. Apart from that I’m not much of a patriotic or nationalistic type. Not at all in fact.
But wait! There’s that other little matter of Australians welcoming racist South Africans into their country with open arms. Mmm, maybe it’s not just the cricket team.
And the redneck constituency itself? Just a tiny little aberration is it?
I’ve been to Australia mate. I’m not just talking about one little instance that has recently been in the news. I’m talking about a long history of that kind of thing. And if you knew a bit more about this topic you would know how many S. Africans of the racist persuasion have made their way there over the last couple of decades.
But the main point is that SA beating Australia gives me a pleasure that I don’t get from SA beating any other team in the world. Nothing much you can do about that, o patriotic one.
Goodness gracious what unpleasantness to awake to.
So it seems like you don’t like Australia or Australians. Yes there are racists in Australia, lots and lots of them like there are in UK, America, South Africa etc. But we are not all racists and to tar an entire nsation with that brush is well….
What on earth makes you assume I’m ignorant on these topics? I lived in Zimbabwe post independence teaching in an all black township, the first white teacher there. Black kids ran off the street crying when I walked to school, scared of me. I travelled on the local busses to schoool each day. I spent my time seeing bands,often the only mzungu in a crowd of hundreds. I’ve been to Sth Africa pre and post apartheid. I know many Sth Africans who have emigrated, most would be characterised as liberal though I’m aware of the hard core who “took the gap” early just as happened with the Rhodesians. So what more should I know that warrants you saying I’m ignorant.
I’m assuming you relied on South African news regarding Home Affairs Minister Dutton’s suggestion that Australia should provide special treatment for white South African farmers undre threat of losing their lives. By the way he didn’t say racist white Sth African farmers – that was you. If you lnew a bit more about this topic, to use your words, you’d know that the general reaction was of horror, it was rebutted by the Foreign Minister and the PM . Having said that there is a big article in today’s right wing Murdoch paper The Australian covering some recent examples of murder/rape/torture of white farmers in Sth Africa so clearly it is not the last we’ve heard of it. But even ignorant Junior knows that the level of violence black Sth Africans encounter is horrendous and to focus on white farmers is a distortion.
No I can’t change your satisfaction, let’s face it prejudice is always deeply seated.
I really fear for the future of Test cricket. The five day demands a dedication above and beyond. Crowds are falling. The home side enjoys such an advantage that many games finish well before day five. Away teams barely bother to prepare properly, arriving at the last minute and playing few genuine warm up games. The focus is on the shorter formats, the one-dayers and the 20/20s, that capture the imagination of more viewers and, therefore, TV companies and advertisers.
This latest scandal (and, let’s be honest, it could have been any team) has led to sponsors having other thoughts. TV deals are about to be renegotiated and without TV revenue, the game will die. The money may well move away to other sports.
The powers that be seem to be doing their best to ignore a storm that has been brewing for a while. Test cricket needs to be more competitive to survive and needs to be taken seriously by all concerned. A bit of fun with different types of World Cups will be a waste of time otherwise.
These Australians are guilty of gross stupidity but so are the ICC and all the national governing bodies.
I agree with most of what you say @Tiggerlion, except I don’t think it could have been any team. Sure there have been instances of doctoring the ball all round, but this particular episode is the last in a long line of the Australians’ siege mentality taking over. There have been concerns within the game for a long time about the Aussie team’s culture. Starting with sledging (which Australians under Ian Chappell virtually invented).
I too worry about the future of test cricket, but when I went to day one of the Sydney Ashes test in January with my son and (English) son-in-law, which was sold out, it was heartening to see people of all ages and genders there. We sat next to the Barmy Army, also all ages and genders, and it was a good vibe all round.
The Ashes Tests always sell out in both countries – the problem is very few others. apart from in England (?), attract decent crowds – even the current Aussie/SA series which you would have thought would have been a big draw. I suppose these days the man in the street wants to say a result in one day, and I’m not too sure how tests can be rejuvenated – personally I love them, and couldn’t care less about the shorter forms of the game, but I think I’m the exception rather than the rule these days unfortunately.
On other matters, the silence from Lehmann is deafening!
This just in – it is understood tampering plot was a discussion had between Warner and Cameron Bancroft, with Steve Smith guilty of sitting on his hands as captain and not intervening.
Reports saying Warner trying to implicate bowlers when interviewed by CA, rest of team got shits and want nothing to do with him.
He is a pugnacious little prick, team destroying batsman, and he was our pugnacious little prick. Seems like he will now just be a prick.
Still that though suspect he will be less pugnacious. Probably a broken man. All reports say he gas violent mood swings, Smith cant handle him and he was like a volcano about to erupt even vefire De Kock’s utterances.
It does seem to be getting a little hysterical down here, with the PM weighing in, and the foreign minister talking of the hit to the nation’s reputation… time for a double perpective and soda I think
So the bowlers didn’t know, the coach didn’t know, and the ‘leadership group’ was the captain, the vice and a guy who’s played 8 tests. From this distance it looks a bit like the cheats are liars as well.
That’s the problem when you wrap your national identity around your sports teams. If they aren’t up to the job (as so often has been the case with England’s teams) you just look silly and when they succeed the expectation and the pressure on them to keep succeeding increases year on year.
OK so the latest via Jim Maxwell (ABC commentator) is that Smith and Warner will get 12 month bans, and that it was Warner’s idea. Smith overheard Warner and Bancroft talking about it and said “whatever it is I don’t want to know”. Which indicates both his naivete and his deference to Warner – who by all accounts is a complete prick and was after Smith’s job – and obviously had it all over Smith in terms of running the show. Tragic.
Smith has been ordered to do a press conference (in a fucking airport hangar FFS) as soon as he steps off the plane from SA. Poor bugger.
Warner is gone, for sure, and I suspect Lehmann will resign.
It’s easy to forget these are young men and, what’s more, young men who have grown up in a pressure cooker sports environment. As with the drug scandals in other sports, I’m sure it is all too easy to be persuaded to go just that little bit further to gain an advantage, and maybe be persuaded that this is the ‘norm’. I do have some sympathy for Bancroft who seemed to be bamboozled into doing this. I don’t know, but I assume he is the designated ball polisher in the team so would be less open to suspicion.
It would seem Smith went along with it rather than instigated it, but he really should have been man enough as captain to know this was going too far and stopped it – but maybe, just maybe, he was actually belatedly taking the captain’s responsibility by claiming it was ‘the leadership team’ when he actually knew nothing at the time..?
But…..the trick, as with anything you do wrong, is not to get caught.
It would be useful if Lehman and the coaching staff spoke out and at least acknowledged this was wrong-headed of the players. It would go some way to getting things back on track – this isn’t just an issue for Australia, but the sport itself has been, to coin a phrase, brought into disrepute. The ‘leadership’ has to come from coaches and managers throughout the game.
Ive just read that the Indian Cricket Control Board have banned Warner and Smith from the Premier League.
Its one thing for Australia to take measures beyond the one match penalty but for Indian cricket to get on its high horse well that galls more than the cant of Athertons moralising.
Post script.
Just read that now confirmed it was sandpaper. So Smith lied about that after the game. I retract, ban them from all comps in all countries though a year is about right.
My article and thoughts on the ball tampering issue….
Like every other Australian and cricket lover around the world was shocked and angered by what we saw in Cape Town.
To hear that the Australian cricket team had been involved in pre-mediated cheating is something that is embarrassing. There is no way you can condone it.
We are all so hurt and angry and maybe we weren’t so sure how to react. We’d just never seen it before.
But the jump to hysteria is something that has elevated the offence beyond what they actually did, and maybe we’re at a point where the punishment just might not fit the crime.
The hysteria has gone world wide, and everyone that dislikes the way the Australian cricket team has played, and over the past five or so years there have been rumblings about the way this team has gone about things, have been given the opportunity to lay the boots in.
There are thoose countries that don’t like Australia, don’t like individuals in the team, and there has been a build up of hate which has exploded and created this tornado of hysteria.
But what are the players guilty of ? Cheating via Ball tampering and bringing the game into disrepute.
Their opposing captain in this series, South Africa’s Faf du Plessis, has been charged with the offence twice, and opening bowler Vernon Philander once. The list of players who have been charged with ball tampering is long and contains some of the biggest names in the game, like Sachin Tendulkar and Mike Atherton.
Then there’s the idea of pre-meditated cheating. But are there levels of ball tampering, or is it just ball tampering ? is putting a mint in your pocket so you can shine a ball on the field pre-meditated cheating, or just ball tampering. What about putting sunscreen on the ball? You either ball tamper or you don’t.
For that reason, I don’t think at the moment talk of the punishment is fitting the crime ie a 12 month ban.
They have been charged with breaching the spirit of the game, something that is so important to us Australians, and something which was important to every team I played in. At times we made mistakes, and we pushed things too far.
But the win at all costs attitude in modern sport can make people do stupid things. I think Steve Smith was guilty of making a severe error of judgement. He was naïve and you can’t condone what he did. He’d be devastated.
Let’s look at his recent history though, as a captain, and a person. He’s been fantastic for the Australian team. But he has made a very silly mistake.
I am still trying to wrestle with what I think the punishment should be. They have to be harsh, but if they are rubbed out for a year, the punishment does not fit the crime.
Let’s take the emotion out of it. We are all feeling angry and embarrassed. But you need a level head and you shouldn’t destroy someone unless they deserve to be destroyed.
Their actions were indefendable, and they need to be severely punished. But I don’t think a one year ban is the answer.
My punishment would have been to miss the fourth Tests match, a huge fine, and be sacked as captain and vice-captain.
But they should still be allowed to play after that.
Darren Lehmann has been cleared of knowing what went on too, which has surprised plenty, but that’s all part of the hysteria.
It’s easy to say “as if Boof didn’t know”. But all we can go is what we’ve been told. This is too big a deal, too big a story, there is too much at stake for the game and James Sutherland to lose – not tell the truth.
We are all struggling to believe what he said, that it was just the three players who knew what was happening, that the coach had to know. We all saw him on the walkie talkie. But you have to take James at his word.
In the teams I played in everyone has to be on the same page to get the ball to reverse. If one player shines it wrong, or gets the dry side wet, it doesn’t work.
But the plan, throwing it in to the ground, bowling cross seam, whatever it was, it would have been set out a long time ago, not in the dressing room at lunch. So in this case, I can understand why a lot of people may not have known.
I feel for everyone involved, for Steve Smith and Dave warner and Cameron Bancroft, and I know what they are going through.
When things like this happen, it comes at you from all angles and you think there is no way out. You start thinking about how to win back the trust, of your teammates and the worldwide public.
It happens, by way of your actions and time.
The Australian public can be harsh and judgemental. But time heals. What the public wants to see is a change. They want to see you make change, be a better person. They’ll support you if they see that along with forgive you.
I made lots of mistakes in my life, and will continue to make them as it’s called being human. I have always said to younger players, don’t worry about how many runs you make or how many tests you play, people will always judge you by the way you play the game.
It’s Australian to play it hard, and tough. But not win at all costs. And never cheat. Cheating is un-Australian.
We hold our sportsmen and women in such high regard, that’s why this hurts so much.
But they can come back from this, and they will. Lastly, world cricket need to take this opportunity to set new standards for on field play and Australia need to lead the way & gain respect from everyone and give all the young boys and girls a reason to want to play cricket and be proud of our national team.
I actually quite like Warnie, although not Warner much.
However, I have started to feel a bit sorry for the latter. He is clearly a victim of his own personality and should never have been put in a leadership position where he could harm himself and others. The macho and aggressive culture of Australian cricket also had the effect of bringing out the worst in him.
There is also talk of him never playing for Australia again. I think that would be a bit OTT. The guy is after all very good at his main job. He shouldn’t be barred from doing it forever. He needs a bit of ‘life coaching’ in the meantime though.
Warner is a tough kid from the Housing Commission (Estates) , he is going to take CA on legally. No love lost between him and administrators even before this.
Smith more a gentle fellow who hasn’t had much to deal with in life, was never a sledger and proved to be a weak captain other than on the field. He is the one people are talking about as being most “at risk”
You’ve just made my support of Warner even stronger with that comment, and yes, I do have a working class chip on my shoulder! Michael Vaughn’s outright dismissal of him on the BBC website was especially disgraceful. In the same article Tino Best points out that “I honestly believe everyone is overreacting. Look there isn’t a professional player who hasn’t done it, cricket is tough especially on flat wickets.” Probably more truth there than the cricket establishment would like to admit.
Ex-NZ batsman turned TV presenter Mark Richardson said that ball tampering is pretty common. He talked of a ground in Dunedin where there is a concrete surface just beyond one part of the boundary. If you retrieve the ball from there it’s quite easy to make a meal of it and thereby scuff it up a bit.
OK last one , promise…err for today .A little bit behind the news but well targetted. The stuff about Boof …..erk … an ugly Australian to confirm everything Tahir thinks of us.
Your ongoing posts have illustrated/mirrored the changing scenarios over the last few days.
For what it’s worth, I consider a batsman not walking – if (for example) he knows he has edged it to the ‘keeper – to be cheating. However, I know I may be in a minority on that, i.e. “it is up to the umpire to give the batsman out”, etc.
The blatant hypocrisy of those who have also sinned, as well as the international outrage, causes further confusion in my mind, to say the least.
I am a qualified umpire – though not at international level – and the “playing on the edge” methodology is challenging for the officials. I am aware of instances where the ball has clearly had something done to it and is being examined by the umpires, that the “easy” way out is to deem it has gone out of shape and replace it; this has even extended to measuring the ball with a “womens’ cricket tool” to be able to do that.
My biggest argument currently is with Mrs Biggles, who argues that the players’ attempts to seek an advantage should be encouraged in a free-for-all to make it a level playing field, as “everybody does it, anyway”. I fear/seem to remember she said something similar when Ben Johnson won the Olympic 100 metres.
Should also mention that your balanced/torn/measured analysis is spot-on.
I’d be surprised if any other country would sanction their players like CA has done and they had to to appease the people of Australia and probably more importantly all the sponsors. It is not the act so much as the hypocrisy of it all. And to be honest, it has brought to the surface a disquiet many Australians have had with the unpleasantness of this team in particular. I don’t think Smith is really a cheat at heart, he just can’t control Warner. Warner was filled with rage at the whole De Kock thing, the endless abuse of the Sth African fans who can be very much equal to Australian fans in arseholism, the allowing of Sonny Boy Williams mask to the ground etc. Of course teams cop it in Australia big time and he clearly can dish out but not take it. He seems a bit mentally unbalanced and this lunacy is the result. Has he done it before – who knows . As to the idea that the bowlers and coaching staff knew. do you think he said hey lads, coach, I’m just gonna get this sandpaper out of my bag and give Cameron some tips on scuffing the ball . All ok with that? Did Atherton ask around before putting the dirt in his pocket, Du Plessis scoring the ball on his zipper? I doubt it.
On the face of it 12 months seems OTT but as Ian Chappell pointed out a penalty of say 6 months would have seen them back on the grounds for the Australian summer and the public and sponsors here just would not wear that.
I hope Smith comes back -lord knows many have done worse and come back. Warney for starters. Mark Waugh is a selector. Then again Trevor Chappell who was instructed to bowl the infamous underarm lost his marriage, doesn’t speak to brother Greg who instructed him to bowl underarm and has lead an unhappy ostracised life ever since. Smith will never be Captain again but this has shown he shouldn’t have been Captain in the first place. I also reckon that after this next Test Lehmann will go in favour of Justin Langer. Read that article I posted above. Nasty stuff.
It’s good. And interestingly from a coach who was ridiculed at the time and replaced by a coach with the nickname Boof.
I just watched the press conferences with Bancroft and Smith. Poor bastards. They need help now, they’ve admitted they fucked up. I just hope they somehow see that what contributed to their demise was the whole culture of the team.
Yeah. I’m not buying it. These are tough competitors, they put up with and dish out all kinds of mental stress. It’s a tool his team use with great skill – ‘part of the game’ they would say. So less of the tears, Steve. You stand up to 90mph missiles in front of a hostile braying crowd. You”ll be just fine. A couple of million in lost income won’t touch the sides, you can take the winter off, and come back fresh for the Worlds and the Ashes.
Good people make mistakes… error of judgement… never happened before… nasty bully Davie Warner made me do it…
Fair enough, I was extemporising a bit at the end there. It’s everyone else who’s blaming Warner.
I think the guy has to stay under the pump a while longer before we start feeling sorry for him. The thing about ‘the line’ is that the more you push it the greater the chance you will cross it. So to then say it was a mistake and you’re sorry, and to beg forgiveness, shows a lack of understanding of the consequences of risk. If he said ‘we pushed it too far, we got caught, and I’ll take my punishment’ I’d have a bit more respect for him than this snivelling retreat.
That’s got to be the correct decision by him – his position was untenable really, and a new broom needs to come in and start with a totally clean slate.
Yes Lehman going seems necessary especially after reading some of those pieces I posted. @Chiz I think you are being extremely harsh on Smith at the moment. I’m sure he will acknowledge all those points but he hasn’t slept since it broke, probably jetlagged, could barely read his prepared statement and had to leave the room because he broke down in tears .FFS he’s not made of iron.
Oh yeah. Over the week as a whole I’ve no sympathy for him at all, from letting it happen in the first place to the only-really-sorry-that-we-got-caught attitude in the first press conference to the revelation of lies about tape, but for however long it took to watch that press conference I was heartbroken for him.
Ah come on now, I don’t remember the Australian public worrying about Broad’s wellbeing after the now-disgraced coach told them to attack him mentally. And he didn’t even cheat.
Christ, and I thought I could be harsh! That’s a broken man who made a stupid mistake, and judging by that press conference appearence is not going to forget the hurt & distress its caused anytime soon.
No-one likes to see a bloke in that state, but at the end of the day, he had the opportunity to stop this before it started – instead he did nothing, and now he has to face the consequences.
There might be a little more sympathy if they’d all … ironically, given the sledging they lay so much store by … “manned-up” at the beginning.
Why Lehman didn’t feel it appropriate straight away to say “You know what, this was on my watch, so it is with regret that I relinquish my post forthwith,” will forever remain a mystery.
Quick thought:
The biggest sport in the world is football. The Olympics dislodges it every 4 years, Rugby Union has its moments, there’s the Superbowl etc. etc.
However, far and away the biggest sport for a major international incident, and the one that most resembles the kind of fall-out we’ve seen from the Salisbury story, is cricket!
In comparison, scandals involving John Terry, the England football team or drugged-up athletes look like the ramblings of a backward choirboy.
Is any sport as central to the national psyche as cricket is in Oz? Even football in England or one of those what-else-have-they-got countries like Uruguay? Baseball in the US… maybe. This is arguably big news because of that, not because of the crime itself.
Football isn’t the be all and end all in England but is in many other countries. Rugby in New Zealand would be similar I suppose. (Ice) hockey in Canada etc etc
The point is that it’s not a big deal that we heard from the Australian PM almost immediately about this. He was expected to have something to say.
Football? I’m not sure there’s been a UK PM who hasn’t just pretended to like it… well not since Lord Palmerston, who was a season ticket holder at Preston North End*
“From my point of view I just hope the Australian public give it to him right from the word go for the whole summer and I hope he cries and he goes home. Our players haven’t forgotten, they’re calling him everything under the sun as they go past so I would hope the Australian public are the same because that was just blatant cheating. [It wasn’t – Broad didn’t cheat at all] I just hope everyone gets stuck into him because the way he’s carried on and the way he’s commented in public about it is ridiculous. From my point of view it’s poor, so I hope the public actually get stuck into him.”
2018: Lehman’s cheating captain Steve Smith cries and goes home.
I’m just illustrating why you shouldn’t expect too much sympathy for Smith from this hemisphere. He has endorsed and enforced this level of sportsmanship, right up to the day that he pushed it too far and got caught. When a team operates in a culture where they actively incite the public to help with the psychological destruction of an opponent, and then their poster boy trips over his own hubris and cries because this is now the thing he’ll be remembered for – no, not a lot of sympathy there.
Given that the abrasive device was revealed not to be sticky tape but rather sandpaper, should the excellent ‘Why I’ve Got Some Sticky Near My Dicky’ headline now be updated to ‘Dick Emery’?
I don’t mind cheats. Anyone can win by being the best player but there is something admirable about using subterfuge to overcome your natural disadvantages. But I can’t stand crybabies. The three of them should be banned for life for those press conferences.
Unlike press intrusion which seemed to continue unabashed after Princess Diana’s death, it’s hard to see where Australian sledging goes from here.
2020 First Test … Joe Root misses edging a ball by millimetres …
“Hey, you whinging Pommy bastard, need your Momma?”
Joe Root … “Erm … ?”
It ain’t gonna happen is it.
If the Barmy Army aren’t already working on a set-list that includes “Crying,” “Cry Baby Cry” and “I’ll Cry Instead,” they’re not really crying, sorry, trying.
It’s easy to crow from a high horse, is it not? Neither Atherton, who claimed to have suffered ‘brain fade’ nor du Plessis in ‘mintgate’ were banned for even one match, let alone lose the captaincy. In fact, du Plessis scored a decisive century in the very next game.
The ICC takes ball-tampering so seriously it warrants only a level 2 punishment (out of 4). If spotted by the umpires during a match, the offenders lose five runs and the ball is replaced.
The only real difference this time is that a junior player was instructed to commit the foul play by more senior player(s). The this is the first time it has been premeditated argument doesn’t hold with me either. Are we saying Atherton spontaneously put dirt in his pocket and du Plessis just happened to have a mint with him during play, neither with any malice aforethought?
Oh yes, they’ve done wrong, they’ve been caught but I agree with Warne that the punishments meted out are draconian. Their culture of sledging was getting its comeuppance on this tour of South Africa in any case. Jumping up and down with glee is unseemly.
Let’s have a sense of proportion and decorum, please. We aren’t Twitter, are we, where extreme reactions appear to be the norm?
Before i leave this thread. It was clear that Warner was targetted on this tour. So they were at him, at him, on field off field his wife etc. They knew he had the potential to win matches off own bat and also that he is bad tempered and volatile. So they kept at it and it affected his cricket and then he was so filled with rage he completely lost it.
Absolutely. The plan worked like a dream. It led to Warner doing something incredibly stupid and dragging down two other players, including the captain, with him. He couldn’t stand the taste of his own medicine. From 1-0 up, they are now staring at a 2-1 defeat. That, within the laws of the game, should be punishment enough, throwing in a fine and a match or two ban. As it is, Australian public opinion, more than anything is against them.
With a Premier League duller than a Phil Collins b-side, domestic finals which may well turn out to be Arsenal v. Man. City and Chelsea v. Man. Utd. (i.e. duller than two Phil Collins b-sides) and every other sentence uttered in public containing the word “Brexit,” this is far and away the most interesting thing to have happened, or indeed likely to happen, in 2018.
We all knew what was done, we all knew who did it, and we all knew those that did it were toast.
However, those who did it didn’t know we knew what had been done, or that we knew who had done it, or that we knew that those who had done it (them) were toast.
Ironically, all involved would have been far better advised to have played the whole thing out like a 20-20 (i.e. “I resign.”) rather than a Test Match.
Moose the Mooche says
…too busy writing poems about people drowning.
*note to self: check this later*
Tiggerlion says
No. That’s Robin Robertson on You Are Wolf’s new album. It’s rather good.
Junior Wells says
Woke up to this. Absolutely staggered. I guess after the whole Warner thing where DeKock lied and the closeness of the series they are pathological in their determination to win but who cares ? This is just totally fucked, esp given the sanctimony cast about by Australia over “lines” (self defined ) and the stick Du Plessis got for tampering in Sydney.
I’d remove Smith as Captain and abandon the leadership group.What sort of leadership is that? And then they rope newbie Bancroft to execute the plan and now it is Bancroft who gets suspended and has it on his record forever.
They are saying it is underarm 2 but it is worse because this was a conspiracy.
Kid Dynamite says
Looks to me like Lehman’s involved as well – the whole business of the sub being sent out from the dressing room to have a word is very fishy.
Gatz says
Was it a surprise to him that this might be caught on camera?
Junior Wells says
Immoral first, incompetent second.
I revise my view – Smith should be sacked.
JQW says
If Team Sky played cricket they would have managed to obtain sandpaper on a TUE.
Mousey says
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/smith-must-resign-but-not-before-he-answers-these-key-questions-20180325-p4z641.html
dai says
That’s a little bit pompous but he should not stay as captain. Also, has it happened before in this current team?
deramdaze says
It’s a Paul Young job – Steve Smith’s toast.
Moose the Mooche says
Next stop, the charity shop?
Kid Dynamite says
And now the Australian government is calling for Smith to go. I am quite impressed that the Australian public mood seems to be 100% disgusted and embarrassed, without any petty tribalism and blind loyalty. Fair play to them for that (maybe a bad choice of words, but you know what I mean)
chiz says
You’ve got to feel sorry for them – Smith said it’s the first time they’ve ever cheated, and they got caught straight away. How unlucky is that?
We’ll have that urn back now, please Steve, on your way out
Junior Wells says
shall we give it to Athers?
If not, at least, sacked as Captain and heavy penaltiers for entire leadership group and a new captain installed from outside that group then thre is a strong chance of mass boycotting of team from Aussie fans. People are saying for 20 years we’ve defended you on the basis of your hard but fair, not cross the line cricket but we’ve had a gutful.
Harold Holt says
Smith – must lose the captaincy at least, suspended for a good number of games for justice.
Lehman – if he knew anything about it at all, should be sacked immediately for gross stupidity.
Bancroft – deserves to be suspended and fined for going along with it, even if they were telling him to do it.
Whoever else is in this leadership group gets a suspension and a shoeing as well.
Morons, the lot of them. And it’s their first time attempting this ? Really ?
Junior Wells says
Smith and Warner have stood diwn as C and VC for remainder of this test.
What a tour this has been. Pity the stands have been empty.
This is a good read
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/ball-tampering-controversy-has-broken-cricket-s-rich-poetic-heart-20180325-p4z64o.html?__twitter_impression=true
Bargepole says
So Smith, Warner and Lehman meet to decide the best way to proceed tactically in the match – I know, let’s cheat, and while we’re at it, lets get the most inexperienced member of the team to carry it out as he won’t dare refuse.
Bancroft must be banned for cheating obviously, but the other three must receive much heavier bans as not only are they much more senior, they hold the most responsible positions in the team hierarchy.
It surely goes without saying that they must be removed from those positions, although it seems they have now stepped down for the remainder of this match anyway, and Smith has lost his IPL captaincy role.
Don’t even get me started on Warner – the biggest sledger in the game makes a complaint when he is outsledged – suddenly it’s not fair! And what is this invisible line of conduct the Aussies seemingly never cross, but other teams do – perhaps they could tell us.
Junior Wells says
No evidence at all of Lehman’s involvement so far. He may have been so far all denials on that front but you make it like it is a fact.
I’m appalled as you see above. However, I think the fast bowler Rabada getting off was a joke, the authorities allowing the crowd to wear Sonny Boy Williams masks was a disgrace, De Kock saying what he did then barefaced lying was pathetic and the whole series has had great cricket marred by arseholism.
I think he should and will go and I’m looking forward to all ball tamperers being meted similar punishments.
Freddy Steady says
Yep Junior. Shouldn’t be one rule for one, one for another. If you tamper with a cricket ball you should expect to be in trouble.
I’m actually really disappointed in Smith though.( see my post below.)
Kid Dynamite says
But it is still pretty funny that David Warner of all people is upset about a bit of sledging, right?
Bargepole says
Yes – you apparently call someone’s mother and sister bush pigs, then make an official complaint when you get a mouthful back.
Likewise Lehmann calling on Aussie crowds to barrack Broad the other year, then complaining about abuse from the SA crowd – really?
Are the Aussies really so isolated in their team bubble that they don’t realise what the rest of the cricketing world thinks of them? Their hypocrisy, their high handedness, their mythical line that they never cross but others do – that’s why they have no friends among the other cricketing nations I’m afraid. Smith and Warner should have resigned their positions immediately, not waited to see if they can ‘get away with it’.
Freddy Steady says
According to the BBC sport website ( so it must be true) Smith has refused to stand down. I did think he had more about him. His position , along with Lehmans looks untenable to me.
Junior Wells says
Here it is confirmed smith and warner playing but not leading. Paine to captain for remainder of test. Gonna be a weird day today.
Mousey says
This just makes me sick in my stomach. I remember a primary school playground chant “cheats never prosper – cheats never prosper”. There’s nothing Smith and co can do to make this right. They’re equal parts cheats and stupid. Cricket is the loser.
Bargepole says
Lehman (and Saker too) are being reported here as being part of this ‘leadership group’ – surely the coach would expect to be be involved – and why was he shown on the walkie talkie in the tv footage shortly before the twelveth man ran out onto the field to alert Bancroft that he’d been rumbled – the surprising thing is that Smith and Warner are out on the pitch today instead of being on a plane home. I wonder if they’ll be in the team for the final test.
Unforunately the Aussies don’t have many friends in international cricket.
Junior Wells says
I agree there are suspicions but Smith said the leadership group was the players group and no coaches involved so I dont think you can assert , at this stage, that Lehmann sat down and conspired with Smith et al.
Having said that just heard Simon Katich calling for Smith Warner AND Lehman to be sacked .
Bargepole says
Happy to be corrected if that’s not the case of course.
Kid Dynamite says
Yep, it’s not clear cut at the moment. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t involved, especially with the walkie talkie business, but it needs to be properly investigated before his head rolls (or not).
Mousey says
Tweet from ABC Grandstand
#BREAKING: Steve Smith suspended for one Test and fined 100 per cent of his match fee. Cameron Bancroft fined 75 per cent, gets three demerit points over ball tampering. #SAvAUS
This is from the ICC. Cricket Australia should add to this pathetic “punishment”
count jim moriarty says
To defend the ICC (something it is very difficult for me to do), they have applied the punishments as laid down in the official disciplinary code.
It is, of course, up to Cricket Australia to apply something more appropriate. The entire ‘leadership group’ should be suspended for a considerable period. Lehmann should stand down. If he knew what was going on, then he is as bad as the players. If he didn’t, then he’s just negligent. Either way he must go.
Junior Wells says
Assuming Lehman didnt know and they hatched it up before the session in the sheds. They go on he sees the camera shots and says on walkie talkie “ I dont know what you are up to out there but it is not n camera “.
How would that be negligent ?
chiz says
Stuart Broad has a career as a commentator or even a politician waiting for him when he retires (which could be any minute now, they way he’s playing.) When asked if the Australians might have cheated during the Ashes, and how he felt about Lehman moaning about intimidation – after having called for all Australians to help ‘send Broad home in tears’ a few years ago – his answers were a model of how to say everything without saying anything. The boy will go far.
Tiggerlion says
He couldn’t understand why they decided to cheat because they managed to get the ball to swing very successfully during the Ashes when England couldn’t. They should just have carried on doing what they were doing then.
Jackthebiscuit says
Maybe they were cheating then but were not found out.
dai says
Irrelevant. Different pitches, different climate. Different cricket balls? And yes they may have been cheating then too.
Tiggerlion says
I’m just paraphrasing Broad. He did say that England simply put the difference down to the conditions but the implication that they were cheating back then was pretty clear. Nevertheless, he didn’t say as such.
Junior Wells says
How were we cheating then ? Broad FFS great competitor but everyone remembers the famous non walk. returned home in tears? Diddums. He played it as tough ss anyone.
These blokkes have fucked up abd will get a penalty from the admin and Australian public.
dai says
I realised it was what Broad said. They could have been cheating then doing the same thing, ball tampering. But it was not spotted. Only the Australian team knows.
Junior Wells says
Only the Australian team know…..there’s a slur you can’t counter.
England lost from short balls not reverse swing. Plus they were crap.
Tiggerlion says
Yes. We were definitely crap.
dai says
I didn’t say that if they were doing it then the result would have been different. However several of the tests were fairly even at least at some point of their duration
Junior Wells says
Yes we could have been cheating, England could have been cheating too but maybe just not as well, or maybe England was cheating and Australia weren’t. Only the players will know.
Bargepole says
A bit of ball tampering, if indeed there was any, wouldn’t have changed the outcome of that series – the Aussies were in a different league to England.
aging hippy says
England lost the Ashes when the Aussies sent some geezer to pick a fight with Stokes outside a nightclub last summer. That’s not cheating. That’s forward planning.
Tahir W says
How can I express my pleasure at these events? It’s not that I dislike Australians, let’s rather say that I dislike and despise a certain type of Australian. The kind that plays cricket. I love to see them lose. And lose.
Junior Wells says
Good onya mate. We will be back.
BTW. since Australia is in the dock @Tahir-W can you give me your view on the following :
The sportsmanship of Virat Kohli
Calling an Australian plauer a monkey
The behaviour of the Sth African cricket team this tour?
England switching an athletic sub on and off the filed solely to gain a fielding advantage.
Doctored pitches to remove any pace ?
Umpiring on the sub continent?
Oh sorry its just the Aussies you hate. Everyone else is ok.
On a lighter note I think Afridi wins this. Geting the pill in your mouth and chomping it mid field.
.https://youtu.be/O6Wq7-pHMQw
Tahir W says
“Oh sorry its just the Aussies you hate. Everyone else is ok.”
Yep, the cricket team, that is. I support anyone against Australia. Funnily enough, the SA cricket team is one of the few things I really admire about this country at the moment. Especially the team’s diversity combined with effectiveness. Apart from that I’m not much of a patriotic or nationalistic type. Not at all in fact.
But wait! There’s that other little matter of Australians welcoming racist South Africans into their country with open arms. Mmm, maybe it’s not just the cricket team.
Junior Wells says
catch up pal. Yesterdays news and wrong at that. One right wing boofhead minister seeking to bolster support amongst his redneck constituency.
Tahir W says
And the redneck constituency itself? Just a tiny little aberration is it?
I’ve been to Australia mate. I’m not just talking about one little instance that has recently been in the news. I’m talking about a long history of that kind of thing. And if you knew a bit more about this topic you would know how many S. Africans of the racist persuasion have made their way there over the last couple of decades.
But the main point is that SA beating Australia gives me a pleasure that I don’t get from SA beating any other team in the world. Nothing much you can do about that, o patriotic one.
Junior Wells says
Goodness gracious what unpleasantness to awake to.
So it seems like you don’t like Australia or Australians. Yes there are racists in Australia, lots and lots of them like there are in UK, America, South Africa etc. But we are not all racists and to tar an entire nsation with that brush is well….
What on earth makes you assume I’m ignorant on these topics? I lived in Zimbabwe post independence teaching in an all black township, the first white teacher there. Black kids ran off the street crying when I walked to school, scared of me. I travelled on the local busses to schoool each day. I spent my time seeing bands,often the only mzungu in a crowd of hundreds. I’ve been to Sth Africa pre and post apartheid. I know many Sth Africans who have emigrated, most would be characterised as liberal though I’m aware of the hard core who “took the gap” early just as happened with the Rhodesians. So what more should I know that warrants you saying I’m ignorant.
I’m assuming you relied on South African news regarding Home Affairs Minister Dutton’s suggestion that Australia should provide special treatment for white South African farmers undre threat of losing their lives. By the way he didn’t say racist white Sth African farmers – that was you. If you lnew a bit more about this topic, to use your words, you’d know that the general reaction was of horror, it was rebutted by the Foreign Minister and the PM . Having said that there is a big article in today’s right wing Murdoch paper The Australian covering some recent examples of murder/rape/torture of white farmers in Sth Africa so clearly it is not the last we’ve heard of it. But even ignorant Junior knows that the level of violence black Sth Africans encounter is horrendous and to focus on white farmers is a distortion.
No I can’t change your satisfaction, let’s face it prejudice is always deeply seated.
Mousey says
Have an up @Junior-Wells
Tahir W says
Have a valium!
Moose the Mooche says
Oh, doping is it now!
Freddy Steady says
Meanwhile, Australia bowled out for 107 in their second innings and are “thumped” by South Africa.
Oh dear.
Junior Wells says
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/25/steve-smith-must-go-australia-jason-gillespie?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Sitheref2409 says
Let he who is without sin etc etc
England need to climb down off the high horse.
They’re all at it – as the history books show. I mean it really damaged Ather’s career after all.
Maybe Broad should stop pontificating and start asking why England are so irredeemably shit. Or are NZ cheating as well?
nickduvet says
At least the Aussies are taking it seriously…
http://www.news.com.au/national/northern-territory/nt-news-reveals-the-story-behind-the-aussie-cricket-crisis-headline-why-ive-got-some-sticky-near-my-dicky/news-story/a017a981318744086ea24b60f50f2703
Bargepole says
Reports this morning of a video seemingly showing Bancroft putting sugar in his pocket before taking the field in the Sydney Ashes test.
Moose the Mooche says
This story reminds me of the apocryphal boy sellotaping breadcrumbs to the window pane and then watching birds batter themselves to death.
Tiggerlion says
I really fear for the future of Test cricket. The five day demands a dedication above and beyond. Crowds are falling. The home side enjoys such an advantage that many games finish well before day five. Away teams barely bother to prepare properly, arriving at the last minute and playing few genuine warm up games. The focus is on the shorter formats, the one-dayers and the 20/20s, that capture the imagination of more viewers and, therefore, TV companies and advertisers.
This latest scandal (and, let’s be honest, it could have been any team) has led to sponsors having other thoughts. TV deals are about to be renegotiated and without TV revenue, the game will die. The money may well move away to other sports.
The powers that be seem to be doing their best to ignore a storm that has been brewing for a while. Test cricket needs to be more competitive to survive and needs to be taken seriously by all concerned. A bit of fun with different types of World Cups will be a waste of time otherwise.
These Australians are guilty of gross stupidity but so are the ICC and all the national governing bodies.
Wise up, guys!
Mousey says
I agree with most of what you say @Tiggerlion, except I don’t think it could have been any team. Sure there have been instances of doctoring the ball all round, but this particular episode is the last in a long line of the Australians’ siege mentality taking over. There have been concerns within the game for a long time about the Aussie team’s culture. Starting with sledging (which Australians under Ian Chappell virtually invented).
I too worry about the future of test cricket, but when I went to day one of the Sydney Ashes test in January with my son and (English) son-in-law, which was sold out, it was heartening to see people of all ages and genders there. We sat next to the Barmy Army, also all ages and genders, and it was a good vibe all round.
Bargepole says
The Ashes Tests always sell out in both countries – the problem is very few others. apart from in England (?), attract decent crowds – even the current Aussie/SA series which you would have thought would have been a big draw. I suppose these days the man in the street wants to say a result in one day, and I’m not too sure how tests can be rejuvenated – personally I love them, and couldn’t care less about the shorter forms of the game, but I think I’m the exception rather than the rule these days unfortunately.
On other matters, the silence from Lehmann is deafening!
Junior Wells says
Well there is a Cricket Australia investigation underway at the moment. Can imagine he is under instruction to say nothing.
Junior Wells says
This just in – it is understood tampering plot was a discussion had between Warner and Cameron Bancroft, with Steve Smith guilty of sitting on his hands as captain and not intervening.
Reports saying Warner trying to implicate bowlers when interviewed by CA, rest of team got shits and want nothing to do with him.
He is a pugnacious little prick, team destroying batsman, and he was our pugnacious little prick. Seems like he will now just be a prick.
Moose the Mooche says
Why is he no longer little?
Junior Wells says
Still that though suspect he will be less pugnacious. Probably a broken man. All reports say he gas violent mood swings, Smith cant handle him and he was like a volcano about to erupt even vefire De Kock’s utterances.
Harold Holt says
It does seem to be getting a little hysterical down here, with the PM weighing in, and the foreign minister talking of the hit to the nation’s reputation… time for a double perpective and soda I think
chiz says
So the bowlers didn’t know, the coach didn’t know, and the ‘leadership group’ was the captain, the vice and a guy who’s played 8 tests. From this distance it looks a bit like the cheats are liars as well.
Mike_H says
That’s the problem when you wrap your national identity around your sports teams. If they aren’t up to the job (as so often has been the case with England’s teams) you just look silly and when they succeed the expectation and the pressure on them to keep succeeding increases year on year.
Mousey says
OK so the latest via Jim Maxwell (ABC commentator) is that Smith and Warner will get 12 month bans, and that it was Warner’s idea. Smith overheard Warner and Bancroft talking about it and said “whatever it is I don’t want to know”. Which indicates both his naivete and his deference to Warner – who by all accounts is a complete prick and was after Smith’s job – and obviously had it all over Smith in terms of running the show. Tragic.
Smith has been ordered to do a press conference (in a fucking airport hangar FFS) as soon as he steps off the plane from SA. Poor bugger.
Warner is gone, for sure, and I suspect Lehmann will resign.
NigelT says
It’s easy to forget these are young men and, what’s more, young men who have grown up in a pressure cooker sports environment. As with the drug scandals in other sports, I’m sure it is all too easy to be persuaded to go just that little bit further to gain an advantage, and maybe be persuaded that this is the ‘norm’. I do have some sympathy for Bancroft who seemed to be bamboozled into doing this. I don’t know, but I assume he is the designated ball polisher in the team so would be less open to suspicion.
It would seem Smith went along with it rather than instigated it, but he really should have been man enough as captain to know this was going too far and stopped it – but maybe, just maybe, he was actually belatedly taking the captain’s responsibility by claiming it was ‘the leadership team’ when he actually knew nothing at the time..?
But…..the trick, as with anything you do wrong, is not to get caught.
Junior Wells says
Warner and Smith will be banned by Cricket Australia for 12 months.Bancroft got 9 months. Warner the instigator and in Coventry with rest of team.
NigelT says
It would be useful if Lehman and the coaching staff spoke out and at least acknowledged this was wrong-headed of the players. It would go some way to getting things back on track – this isn’t just an issue for Australia, but the sport itself has been, to coin a phrase, brought into disrepute. The ‘leadership’ has to come from coaches and managers throughout the game.
Junior Wells says
They have been instructed to say nothing up til now. Surely that would be expected.
Now penalties announced you’d also expect those instructions to be lifted.
Junior Wells says
Ive just read that the Indian Cricket Control Board have banned Warner and Smith from the Premier League.
Its one thing for Australia to take measures beyond the one match penalty but for Indian cricket to get on its high horse well that galls more than the cant of Athertons moralising.
Junior Wells says
Post script.
Just read that now confirmed it was sandpaper. So Smith lied about that after the game. I retract, ban them from all comps in all countries though a year is about right.
Moose the Mooche says
Worst Durutti Column tribute act ever.
Junior Wells says
It seems the Lehmann scenario was as I wrote above in response to Count Jim
Oh and I retract my intemperate comment re ICCB , clearly they are lining up alongside the CA sanctions which is as it should be.
You may have gathered I’ve got a bit obsessed with this. The thread has had 800 or so views so I’m giving one Aussie’s perspective.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/what-the-f-is-going-on-the-words-that-cleared-darren-lehmann-20180328-p4z6sn.html
Junior Wells says
Warne on Facebook . He argues penalties are OTT.
My article and thoughts on the ball tampering issue….
Like every other Australian and cricket lover around the world was shocked and angered by what we saw in Cape Town.
To hear that the Australian cricket team had been involved in pre-mediated cheating is something that is embarrassing. There is no way you can condone it.
We are all so hurt and angry and maybe we weren’t so sure how to react. We’d just never seen it before.
But the jump to hysteria is something that has elevated the offence beyond what they actually did, and maybe we’re at a point where the punishment just might not fit the crime.
The hysteria has gone world wide, and everyone that dislikes the way the Australian cricket team has played, and over the past five or so years there have been rumblings about the way this team has gone about things, have been given the opportunity to lay the boots in.
There are thoose countries that don’t like Australia, don’t like individuals in the team, and there has been a build up of hate which has exploded and created this tornado of hysteria.
But what are the players guilty of ? Cheating via Ball tampering and bringing the game into disrepute.
Their opposing captain in this series, South Africa’s Faf du Plessis, has been charged with the offence twice, and opening bowler Vernon Philander once. The list of players who have been charged with ball tampering is long and contains some of the biggest names in the game, like Sachin Tendulkar and Mike Atherton.
Then there’s the idea of pre-meditated cheating. But are there levels of ball tampering, or is it just ball tampering ? is putting a mint in your pocket so you can shine a ball on the field pre-meditated cheating, or just ball tampering. What about putting sunscreen on the ball? You either ball tamper or you don’t.
For that reason, I don’t think at the moment talk of the punishment is fitting the crime ie a 12 month ban.
They have been charged with breaching the spirit of the game, something that is so important to us Australians, and something which was important to every team I played in. At times we made mistakes, and we pushed things too far.
But the win at all costs attitude in modern sport can make people do stupid things. I think Steve Smith was guilty of making a severe error of judgement. He was naïve and you can’t condone what he did. He’d be devastated.
Let’s look at his recent history though, as a captain, and a person. He’s been fantastic for the Australian team. But he has made a very silly mistake.
I am still trying to wrestle with what I think the punishment should be. They have to be harsh, but if they are rubbed out for a year, the punishment does not fit the crime.
Let’s take the emotion out of it. We are all feeling angry and embarrassed. But you need a level head and you shouldn’t destroy someone unless they deserve to be destroyed.
Their actions were indefendable, and they need to be severely punished. But I don’t think a one year ban is the answer.
My punishment would have been to miss the fourth Tests match, a huge fine, and be sacked as captain and vice-captain.
But they should still be allowed to play after that.
Darren Lehmann has been cleared of knowing what went on too, which has surprised plenty, but that’s all part of the hysteria.
It’s easy to say “as if Boof didn’t know”. But all we can go is what we’ve been told. This is too big a deal, too big a story, there is too much at stake for the game and James Sutherland to lose – not tell the truth.
We are all struggling to believe what he said, that it was just the three players who knew what was happening, that the coach had to know. We all saw him on the walkie talkie. But you have to take James at his word.
In the teams I played in everyone has to be on the same page to get the ball to reverse. If one player shines it wrong, or gets the dry side wet, it doesn’t work.
But the plan, throwing it in to the ground, bowling cross seam, whatever it was, it would have been set out a long time ago, not in the dressing room at lunch. So in this case, I can understand why a lot of people may not have known.
I feel for everyone involved, for Steve Smith and Dave warner and Cameron Bancroft, and I know what they are going through.
When things like this happen, it comes at you from all angles and you think there is no way out. You start thinking about how to win back the trust, of your teammates and the worldwide public.
It happens, by way of your actions and time.
The Australian public can be harsh and judgemental. But time heals. What the public wants to see is a change. They want to see you make change, be a better person. They’ll support you if they see that along with forgive you.
I made lots of mistakes in my life, and will continue to make them as it’s called being human. I have always said to younger players, don’t worry about how many runs you make or how many tests you play, people will always judge you by the way you play the game.
It’s Australian to play it hard, and tough. But not win at all costs. And never cheat. Cheating is un-Australian.
We hold our sportsmen and women in such high regard, that’s why this hurts so much.
But they can come back from this, and they will. Lastly, world cricket need to take this opportunity to set new standards for on field play and Australia need to lead the way & gain respect from everyone and give all the young boys and girls a reason to want to play cricket and be proud of our national team.
Harold Holt says
I hate it when I agree with him. Makes me feel dirty.
Tahir W says
I actually quite like Warnie, although not Warner much.
However, I have started to feel a bit sorry for the latter. He is clearly a victim of his own personality and should never have been put in a leadership position where he could harm himself and others. The macho and aggressive culture of Australian cricket also had the effect of bringing out the worst in him.
There is also talk of him never playing for Australia again. I think that would be a bit OTT. The guy is after all very good at his main job. He shouldn’t be barred from doing it forever. He needs a bit of ‘life coaching’ in the meantime though.
Freddy Steady says
Decent post by Warne that. And quite a few professionals and former professionals seem to be agreeing with him.
Knives out for Warner though I reck.
Junior Wells says
Warner is a tough kid from the Housing Commission (Estates) , he is going to take CA on legally. No love lost between him and administrators even before this.
Smith more a gentle fellow who hasn’t had much to deal with in life, was never a sledger and proved to be a weak captain other than on the field. He is the one people are talking about as being most “at risk”
grac says
You’ve just made my support of Warner even stronger with that comment, and yes, I do have a working class chip on my shoulder! Michael Vaughn’s outright dismissal of him on the BBC website was especially disgraceful. In the same article Tino Best points out that “I honestly believe everyone is overreacting. Look there isn’t a professional player who hasn’t done it, cricket is tough especially on flat wickets.” Probably more truth there than the cricket establishment would like to admit.
Junior Wells says
4 million it’s gonna cost them – at least
Black Celebration says
Ex-NZ batsman turned TV presenter Mark Richardson said that ball tampering is pretty common. He talked of a ground in Dunedin where there is a concrete surface just beyond one part of the boundary. If you retrieve the ball from there it’s quite easy to make a meal of it and thereby scuff it up a bit.
Junior Wells says
FFS
https://youtu.be/dEVW1l_q1ws
Junior Wells says
OK last one , promise…err for today .A little bit behind the news but well targetted. The stuff about Boof …..erk … an ugly Australian to confirm everything Tahir thinks of us.
http://www.afr.com/business/sport/darren-lehmann-the-problem-in-australian-crickets-boofy-culture-20180328-h0y307
biggles says
JW,
Your ongoing posts have illustrated/mirrored the changing scenarios over the last few days.
For what it’s worth, I consider a batsman not walking – if (for example) he knows he has edged it to the ‘keeper – to be cheating. However, I know I may be in a minority on that, i.e. “it is up to the umpire to give the batsman out”, etc.
The blatant hypocrisy of those who have also sinned, as well as the international outrage, causes further confusion in my mind, to say the least.
I am a qualified umpire – though not at international level – and the “playing on the edge” methodology is challenging for the officials. I am aware of instances where the ball has clearly had something done to it and is being examined by the umpires, that the “easy” way out is to deem it has gone out of shape and replace it; this has even extended to measuring the ball with a “womens’ cricket tool” to be able to do that.
My biggest argument currently is with Mrs Biggles, who argues that the players’ attempts to seek an advantage should be encouraged in a free-for-all to make it a level playing field, as “everybody does it, anyway”. I fear/seem to remember she said something similar when Ben Johnson won the Olympic 100 metres.
Should also mention that your balanced/torn/measured analysis is spot-on.
Junior Wells says
Thanks, mate. Appreciate it.
I’d be surprised if any other country would sanction their players like CA has done and they had to to appease the people of Australia and probably more importantly all the sponsors. It is not the act so much as the hypocrisy of it all. And to be honest, it has brought to the surface a disquiet many Australians have had with the unpleasantness of this team in particular. I don’t think Smith is really a cheat at heart, he just can’t control Warner. Warner was filled with rage at the whole De Kock thing, the endless abuse of the Sth African fans who can be very much equal to Australian fans in arseholism, the allowing of Sonny Boy Williams mask to the ground etc. Of course teams cop it in Australia big time and he clearly can dish out but not take it. He seems a bit mentally unbalanced and this lunacy is the result. Has he done it before – who knows . As to the idea that the bowlers and coaching staff knew. do you think he said hey lads, coach, I’m just gonna get this sandpaper out of my bag and give Cameron some tips on scuffing the ball . All ok with that? Did Atherton ask around before putting the dirt in his pocket, Du Plessis scoring the ball on his zipper? I doubt it.
On the face of it 12 months seems OTT but as Ian Chappell pointed out a penalty of say 6 months would have seen them back on the grounds for the Australian summer and the public and sponsors here just would not wear that.
I hope Smith comes back -lord knows many have done worse and come back. Warney for starters. Mark Waugh is a selector. Then again Trevor Chappell who was instructed to bowl the infamous underarm lost his marriage, doesn’t speak to brother Greg who instructed him to bowl underarm and has lead an unhappy ostracised life ever since. Smith will never be Captain again but this has shown he shouldn’t have been Captain in the first place. I also reckon that after this next Test Lehmann will go in favour of Justin Langer. Read that article I posted above. Nasty stuff.
BTW Mrs Biggles sounds absolutely ruthless.
Kid Dynamite says
Think that article is paywalled, Junior. I can only see the first paragraph,
Harold Holt says
Could there be some retribution from the recent players’ pay negotiations coming out too? CA were not happy as i recall…
Junior Wells says
I think it might be a new day in the northern hemisphere so I can start posting stuff up again.
I think this is the best article I have read albeit alarming from an Australian perspective.
https://www.playersvoice.com.au/mickey-arthur-truth-about-aussie-cricket-culture/#BVh8zuwjqMoI6dKR.97
Mousey says
It’s good. And interestingly from a coach who was ridiculed at the time and replaced by a coach with the nickname Boof.
I just watched the press conferences with Bancroft and Smith. Poor bastards. They need help now, they’ve admitted they fucked up. I just hope they somehow see that what contributed to their demise was the whole culture of the team.
Junior Wells says
Gut wrenching wasnt it. Gotta worry about their mental health – Smith especially.
chiz says
Yeah. I’m not buying it. These are tough competitors, they put up with and dish out all kinds of mental stress. It’s a tool his team use with great skill – ‘part of the game’ they would say. So less of the tears, Steve. You stand up to 90mph missiles in front of a hostile braying crowd. You”ll be just fine. A couple of million in lost income won’t touch the sides, you can take the winter off, and come back fresh for the Worlds and the Ashes.
Good people make mistakes… error of judgement… never happened before… nasty bully Davie Warner made me do it…
Cheat. Liar. Boo fucking hoo.
Junior Wells says
Clearly you have not watched the press conference he takes full responsibility and blames no one .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-29/steve-smith-apologises-for-ball-tampering-scandal/9603670
chiz says
I saw it. I just didn’t believe him. I also saw the press conference where he referred to sandpaper as kit tape.
Junior Wells says
Yeah conpletely fucked up, penalty warranted but he is not blaming warner at least publicly
chiz says
Fair enough, I was extemporising a bit at the end there. It’s everyone else who’s blaming Warner.
I think the guy has to stay under the pump a while longer before we start feeling sorry for him. The thing about ‘the line’ is that the more you push it the greater the chance you will cross it. So to then say it was a mistake and you’re sorry, and to beg forgiveness, shows a lack of understanding of the consequences of risk. If he said ‘we pushed it too far, we got caught, and I’ll take my punishment’ I’d have a bit more respect for him than this snivelling retreat.
Ah! Lehman’s gone. Good man.
Bargepole says
That’s got to be the correct decision by him – his position was untenable really, and a new broom needs to come in and start with a totally clean slate.
Junior Wells says
Yes Lehman going seems necessary especially after reading some of those pieces I posted.
@Chiz I think you are being extremely harsh on Smith at the moment. I’m sure he will acknowledge all those points but he hasn’t slept since it broke, probably jetlagged, could barely read his prepared statement and had to leave the room because he broke down in tears .FFS he’s not made of iron.
Kid Dynamite says
Oh yeah. Over the week as a whole I’ve no sympathy for him at all, from letting it happen in the first place to the only-really-sorry-that-we-got-caught attitude in the first press conference to the revelation of lies about tape, but for however long it took to watch that press conference I was heartbroken for him.
chiz says
Ah come on now, I don’t remember the Australian public worrying about Broad’s wellbeing after the now-disgraced coach told them to attack him mentally. And he didn’t even cheat.
grac says
Christ, and I thought I could be harsh! That’s a broken man who made a stupid mistake, and judging by that press conference appearence is not going to forget the hurt & distress its caused anytime soon.
Bargepole says
No-one likes to see a bloke in that state, but at the end of the day, he had the opportunity to stop this before it started – instead he did nothing, and now he has to face the consequences.
Junior Wells says
deramdaze says
There might be a little more sympathy if they’d all … ironically, given the sledging they lay so much store by … “manned-up” at the beginning.
Why Lehman didn’t feel it appropriate straight away to say “You know what, this was on my watch, so it is with regret that I relinquish my post forthwith,” will forever remain a mystery.
deramdaze says
Quick thought:
The biggest sport in the world is football. The Olympics dislodges it every 4 years, Rugby Union has its moments, there’s the Superbowl etc. etc.
However, far and away the biggest sport for a major international incident, and the one that most resembles the kind of fall-out we’ve seen from the Salisbury story, is cricket!
In comparison, scandals involving John Terry, the England football team or drugged-up athletes look like the ramblings of a backward choirboy.
Moose the Mooche says
Is any sport as central to the national psyche as cricket is in Oz? Even football in England or one of those what-else-have-they-got countries like Uruguay? Baseball in the US… maybe. This is arguably big news because of that, not because of the crime itself.
dai says
Football isn’t the be all and end all in England but is in many other countries. Rugby in New Zealand would be similar I suppose. (Ice) hockey in Canada etc etc
Moose the Mooche says
The point is that it’s not a big deal that we heard from the Australian PM almost immediately about this. He was expected to have something to say.
Football? I’m not sure there’s been a UK PM who hasn’t just pretended to like it… well not since Lord Palmerston, who was a season ticket holder at Preston North End*
(*gotta love Wikipedia!)
dai says
Well he lasted about 3 extra days in the middle of the tour. Fair enough I think
chiz says
Darren Lehman on Stuart Broad, 2013:
“From my point of view I just hope the Australian public give it to him right from the word go for the whole summer and I hope he cries and he goes home. Our players haven’t forgotten, they’re calling him everything under the sun as they go past so I would hope the Australian public are the same because that was just blatant cheating. [It wasn’t – Broad didn’t cheat at all] I just hope everyone gets stuck into him because the way he’s carried on and the way he’s commented in public about it is ridiculous. From my point of view it’s poor, so I hope the public actually get stuck into him.”
2018: Lehman’s cheating captain Steve Smith cries and goes home.
England cricket fans: *shrugs*
Junior Wells says
He’s quit – happy now ?
chiz says
I’m just illustrating why you shouldn’t expect too much sympathy for Smith from this hemisphere. He has endorsed and enforced this level of sportsmanship, right up to the day that he pushed it too far and got caught. When a team operates in a culture where they actively incite the public to help with the psychological destruction of an opponent, and then their poster boy trips over his own hubris and cries because this is now the thing he’ll be remembered for – no, not a lot of sympathy there.
Uncle Wheaty says
Yes
Pilleus Jr says
Given that the abrasive device was revealed not to be sticky tape but rather sandpaper, should the excellent ‘Why I’ve Got Some Sticky Near My Dicky’ headline now be updated to ‘Dick Emery’?
chiz says
oh – you are awful. But I like it.
Moose the Mooche says
Diddly-doo, diddly-dah!
Freddy Steady says
Re: Warner’s press conference. Ok, I haven’t seen it all but still not fessing up to who knew about it and not actually that contrite.
Perhaps we should all move on though.
count jim moriarty says
Just about the worst case of crocodile tears I’ve ever seen.
Keef says
I don’t mind cheats. Anyone can win by being the best player but there is something admirable about using subterfuge to overcome your natural disadvantages. But I can’t stand crybabies. The three of them should be banned for life for those press conferences.
chiz says
South Africa – 488 (highest score of the series by 100+ runs)
Australia minus cry baby cheats – 110-6
it’s so much harder when you have to play fair
Junior Wells says
You are getting nastier and nastier Chiz. Im out of this thread.
chiz says
Fact and opinion, J. The interpretation is yours.
deramdaze says
Unlike press intrusion which seemed to continue unabashed after Princess Diana’s death, it’s hard to see where Australian sledging goes from here.
2020 First Test … Joe Root misses edging a ball by millimetres …
“Hey, you whinging Pommy bastard, need your Momma?”
Joe Root … “Erm … ?”
It ain’t gonna happen is it.
If the Barmy Army aren’t already working on a set-list that includes “Crying,” “Cry Baby Cry” and “I’ll Cry Instead,” they’re not really crying, sorry, trying.
grac says
Which I guess will be an improvement on the usual ‘patriotic’ bollocks that bunch of idiots normally trot out.
Tiggerlion says
It’s easy to crow from a high horse, is it not? Neither Atherton, who claimed to have suffered ‘brain fade’ nor du Plessis in ‘mintgate’ were banned for even one match, let alone lose the captaincy. In fact, du Plessis scored a decisive century in the very next game.
The ICC takes ball-tampering so seriously it warrants only a level 2 punishment (out of 4). If spotted by the umpires during a match, the offenders lose five runs and the ball is replaced.
The only real difference this time is that a junior player was instructed to commit the foul play by more senior player(s). The this is the first time it has been premeditated argument doesn’t hold with me either. Are we saying Atherton spontaneously put dirt in his pocket and du Plessis just happened to have a mint with him during play, neither with any malice aforethought?
Oh yes, they’ve done wrong, they’ve been caught but I agree with Warne that the punishments meted out are draconian. Their culture of sledging was getting its comeuppance on this tour of South Africa in any case. Jumping up and down with glee is unseemly.
Let’s have a sense of proportion and decorum, please. We aren’t Twitter, are we, where extreme reactions appear to be the norm?
Junior Wells says
Before i leave this thread. It was clear that Warner was targetted on this tour. So they were at him, at him, on field off field his wife etc. They knew he had the potential to win matches off own bat and also that he is bad tempered and volatile. So they kept at it and it affected his cricket and then he was so filled with rage he completely lost it.
Tiggerlion says
Absolutely. The plan worked like a dream. It led to Warner doing something incredibly stupid and dragging down two other players, including the captain, with him. He couldn’t stand the taste of his own medicine. From 1-0 up, they are now staring at a 2-1 defeat. That, within the laws of the game, should be punishment enough, throwing in a fine and a match or two ban. As it is, Australian public opinion, more than anything is against them.
chiz says
The same David Warner who punched Joe Root. The same David Warner who called Jonathan Trott ‘poor and weak’ when he had his own stress issues.
Nice try Junior.
Uncle Wheaty says
Up
Freddy Steady says
…and cheated.
Mike_H says
Even the dullest of test matches is finished in 5 days.
8 days and counting on this thread..
deramdaze says
With a Premier League duller than a Phil Collins b-side, domestic finals which may well turn out to be Arsenal v. Man. City and Chelsea v. Man. Utd. (i.e. duller than two Phil Collins b-sides) and every other sentence uttered in public containing the word “Brexit,” this is far and away the most interesting thing to have happened, or indeed likely to happen, in 2018.
chiz says
There’s always ‘let’s make a list of songs that mention whales’ if cricket’s not your thing
deramdaze says
It’s all been like a superior “Columbo” episode …
We all knew what was done, we all knew who did it, and we all knew those that did it were toast.
However, those who did it didn’t know we knew what had been done, or that we knew who had done it, or that we knew that those who had done it (them) were toast.
Ironically, all involved would have been far better advised to have played the whole thing out like a 20-20 (i.e. “I resign.”) rather than a Test Match.