The Joe Jackson/Adele thread prompted a sigh in me, and I thought that it warranted a separate thread because this issue is bigger and goes so much wider.
In brief: when are we going to let go of the ridiculous category errors made when discussing music? When will we grow up and ditch the adolescent posturing spawned by rock journalism?
In retrospect, the “golden era” of rock journalism was nothing more than over-inflated egos churning out over-inflated opinion pieces on over-inflated musicians. This branch of journalism is thankfully on its knees, at least the professional version, thus weeding out those who genuinely care as opposed to those have opinions for money. And yet it’s infantile spawn still infest most discussions about music, producing depressingly frequent myths like:
(a) Myth: Music is about the lyrics, eg you can judge Adele’s music by its subject matter.
Reality: No you can’t. Lyrics are there in the background, and never made a dull piece of music great (La Adele), nor did they ever drag down an excellent piece of music (New Order).
(b) Myth: It is sufficient to consider guitar-based bands, playing 4-5 minute long songs with choruses, guitar solos, and hummable tunes.
Reality: This is basically like saying that, if you watch football, you never need to consider any other sport. Or if you watch TV, then British sitcoms are more than enough to keep your interest. It’s so wrong on so many levels.
(c) Myth: Writing about music isn’t the same thing at all as dancing about architecture.
Reality: Yes it is. If you need someone’s written opinion to help you appreciate a piece of music, I think you’re in a sad place. Journalism and other musical writing is fandom at best, parasitic at worst.
So am I just in a bad mood? Does any of this ring bells with anybody out there? Am I on the wrong website?
Have an uppity up from me.
I like this adage.
There are only three genres of music.
Music I like
Music I don’t like
Music I haven’t heard yet
or the (slight) modification applied to siblings, partners and children:
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t490/Rigid_Digit/music_snob_venn_diagram_zpsdjb8deyr.jpg
Does this diagram mean, if you like music I like, then I don’t like it any more?
I agree with all of that and would add a fourth:
(d) Myth: In order for their music to be considered as being of any worth, artists must constantly be moving forward, abandoning whatever styles and approaches have worked for them in the past so they can “brave/explore/break new territory/avenues/ground” ectect.
Reality: Artists succeed in the long term because people quickly come to recognise their music. They carve out a niche and sit comfortably in it, sometimes for decades. Yet the Guardian review of the new Adele album dismissed it because it, er, sounds just like you’d expect an Adele album to sound. Well, er, yes. That’s why half the world is buying the thing. But, no, presumably what she should have done – her duty – was to release an extended Mongolian throat-singing tone poem in Mixodylian mode, with lyrics in Basque, ideally arranged by The Fall. Because being known for a particular sound is for lazy, exploitative, corporate-apologist sell-outs.
Agree with most of that. Maybe not the lyrics part: I certainly don’t care about the *what* of lyrics, but the *how* is really important to me. Never enough on their own (Half Man Half Biscuit being the proof) but in combination with great music the two do complement and lift each other.
The thing I find odd is middle-aged-to-elderly men still clinging on to the idea of “proper music”, especially the idea that there’s something inherently worthy about music involving guitars. And, more cringe-inducingly, that foghorning on about this confers some kind of cool on them. (But obviously denying at all costs that they think this. ;))
It’s in your head Bob. No one actually thinks that, you just think they do. 😉
`ave an up Twang man.
Haha. Alright!
up arrow
I want to be in this gang.
It took me a while, but once I realised that most rock and pop journalists knew next to nothing about music, I was much better placed to relax and just enjoy the stuff that I liked.
Ignore reviews and trust what your ears, your heart and your feet tell you.
Agree with b (and seriouly doubt there’s anyone here who doesn’t) and c, but don’t agree with a at all. A good lyricist makes a world of difference to me. Pink Floyd with Roger Waters lyrics? My favourite band ever. Same wonderful musicians with Polly Sampson’s, Anthony Moore’s or Syd Barrett’s lyrics? No thanks.
Roger Waters’s lyrics are top of my Why I Can’t Bear Pink Floyd list. The music is second. 😉
However, I think we can both agree that were you to hold the opposite view, contradictory in nature to your presently held opinion, your verdict would be less fallacious as a result.
Tell you what, though: we at least agree on one thing. Lyrics are important!
Well it’s not a picture of music journalism I really recognise and is rather reductive. I’ve got a lot of pleasure out of reading about music over the years. I’m not so fussed about whether a record is praised or faulted as long as the writing is lively and interesting and much of the NME in it’s heyday was, as was The Word, despite some not so good content at times. It also led me to discover lots of great records. Now magazines have declined because so much is now freely available I think something’s been lost. This blog is a fine thing in many ways and other online sources can be worthwhile but ultimately I want to read people who can write. To be employed by a quality publication you need a certain ability at least. It’s the way it’s said not what is said that counts. Many of those writers have continued producing some good music books. I’m looking forward to reading Jon Savage’s book on 1966 to name one example.
I think also the conservative nature of the readership of publications has limited their scope.
I enjoy good writing, especially when its subject is music.
With regard to lyrics, there is a rule I’d like to consider: the importance of the lyric is in inverse proportion to the quality of the melody. The voice in Rap and The Hold Steady, for example, doesn’t actually sing a melody, therefore the lyric becomes more important. On the hand, Agnes Obel and Julia Holter, for example, can’t help writing lovely melodies, so it is perfectly fine that their lyrics are usually codswallop.
*other*
Cuh!
a) Wrong
b) Bit wrong, but mostly right
c) Horribly horribly wrong
a) Depends what is meant by music being all about the lyrics eg in a political sense, Dylan, Bragg, strummer, dammers etc, or a poetic sense most-pop-music-ever-made. The latter doesn’t need to make any obvious sense at all.
I’m not sure who you think is saying this anyway. I mean really – who says this?
b) I don’t understand what this means.
c) Writing about music ISN’T the same thing at all as dancing about architecture. They are completely different. One clearly expresses someone’s personal experience of listening to a piece of music in a form that is easily understood, and the other one is mental and makes no sense to anyone. Dancing about architecture though is exactly like dancing about music. Note: dancing ABOUT music not dancing to it.
Where’s the myth? I’m guessing you were never a The Word fan …
I suppose it depends on whether you consider yourself to be amongst the “we” in the OP. I don’t recognise any of those traits in myself or anyone I know, really. Most people are very eclectic and like everything from solo jazz piano through folk, reggae, rap, and prog to new age, ambient and techno. The whole tribal idea is a journalistic confection which surely only appeals to the lost and hopeless who feel they need a home, or a gang to hang with. Or a nice little market to sell music papers to.
a.) Agree, although I had no idea this was a myth that needed exploding.
b.) Like Niscum, bit lost. Do you mean nobody writes about electronic music, hip hop, R&B etc. Plenty do, on this site alone!
c.) Wrong! Loads of writing has helped me appreciate music, from Ian McDonald on The Beatles to Bob on Robyn. ‘Changed my mind about’, no. ‘Helped me appreciate’. Definitely yes.
Great post, though, Douglas. You’ve roused me from the torpor of a boring Saturday afternoon to respond!
This is what I wanted to say but as usual someone on here says it better! The amount of stuff I’ve heard because I’ve read an enthusiastic review or article is enormous.
Anent C. The “Writing about music is like dancing about architecture” quote (was it Zappa?) has always struck me as being particularly nonsensical. In truth, writing about music is very similar to writing about architecture. Or anything else for that matter. It’s about communicating, ideas, enthusiasm and plain old useful information. That presumably explains why the internet is full of written stuff on all sorts of subjects.
I like music and lyrics when they mesh so well together, that it becomes difficult to separate them. Hence the amusement factor of the I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue round where the contestants do exactly that.
I’m not sure if any of them are actually myths at all, to be honest.
To answer your three questions; probably, not really, certainly not.
Love the OP post – more of this sort of thing please.
The older I get, the more I feel it’s all just a matter of taste. Which is liberating, because it means when someone slags off one of my favourite bands I can just think “fair enough, it wasn’t their thing”, instead of getting huffy and defensive and trying to explain to them how they’ve missed the point.
What I will take issue with is the notion of that bad lyrics can’t drag a great piece of music down. You’ve obviously never recited the lyrics to “Nookie” over the top of an instrumental version of A Change is Gonna Come.
Also; while I don’t really believe you can ever demonstrate which music is “good” vs “bad”, I do enjoy listening while people try to do so. I’ve learned loads from posts on this site, and occasionally had my mind changed or tried something I wouldn’t have.
This is a thing I will never understand: the whole “You don’t like my fave, therefore I’m going to get a right cob on” routine. Well, no: I understand it when it’s a 13-year-old doing it.
My favourite music-related writing at the moment is Ruth And Martin’s Album Club. The infectious enthusiasm, the humour, the whole sense that it’s an entirely Positive Jam (yes: the latest one is about my beloved Hold Steady, who are a marmite band if ever there was one). There’s no sense of there being a “right answer”, or of anything being cool. It’s just people taking widely well-regarded albums they’ve never heard and giving them a go.
On here, the music writing that’s most likely to get me listening is Poppy’s. Again: the enthusiasm, I think – especially the depth of her submersion in scenes I only have a toe-dipping familiarity with. It makes me want to get in, too, and see what the water’s like.
Wow, thank you, Bob!
This music tribalism thing is an almost entirely teenage phenomenon. Adults generally grow out of it as they get better at socialising, although there are a few lost souls who will refuse to let go come what may.
Then there are the ones who strive to stay right on the cutting edge (whatever that is currently). Their numbers get fewer as their years advance. It just becomes too much like work, in my opinion, and less and less like pleasure.
These observations may be bollox.
Your observations are correct.
I have no time these days to follow the latest music due to work and family commitments. Thus I only tend to listen to new music from bands I have liked before and nothing else via Spotify.
In the car I listed to a mix of Radio 5 live and Planet Rock so my exposure there is also limited!
I’m having a hard time getting past a), which seems to replace one dogmatic ‘rule’ with the opposite dogmatic ‘rule’. One of the things that makes music so rich is that there are few if any (and I lean toward the ‘any’) absolutes of this sort. Some songs I like because the lyrics are terrific (if the music’s terrible I can’t hang, but if it’s acceptable I’m fine). Others have not-so-great lyrics but are beautifully crafted and/or arranged. And sometimes the words and notes don’t seem so impressive taken separately, but work together in an alchemical way. So what’s the point of codifying what’s ‘good’ and ‘bad’?
For What Its Worth (or “The Musings Of An Idiot”)
a) lyrics are of generally equal importance to the music itself – you can’t have one without the other (unless its an instrumental). Whilst it’s true that rubbish lyrics won’t kill a song, a turn of phrase, a statement of truth that perhaps you’ve never thought about, or possibly a philosophical musing can elevate it above other competing offerings
(see also a top notch guitar solo, an unexpected horn part or a kazoo (possibly?))
b) Wholly agree – there is a ton of stuff in a variety of genres, sub-genres and sub-sub-genres that has yet to be heard. The law of averages suggests there are a few diamonds shining somewhere.
c) I don’t think people actually NEED to read someone elses opinion, but its always good to hear what others think, what they’re passionate about and what is “of a more selective interest” – through this discourse, whether it be printed media, podcasts, or blogs (like this one) then guidance/suggestions from others can lead to some truly wonderful new discoveries
In short what @bogl said:
Stuff you like, stuff you don’t like, and this big pool of stuff you’re not aware of (yet)
I need a word with you Dougal.
Hamish
I agreed wholeheartedly with the beginning of the OP but as it got to specifics, I started to part company. To me at least, lyrics are very important indeed.
But I would add a further myth :
Myth – the 70s NME writers Parsons, Burchill, Shaar-Murray, Kent etc basically ran the music business, such was their wit, influence and ability to kick down the doors of accepted musical norms (like those of the Spirit in the Sky hitmaker, who still has not been paid for the damage). Society looked to this group, for they had the imperial thumb – held aloft for those they approved of – but stabbed ruthlessly downwards for those that did not meet their standards.
Reality – They were no more than a group who couldn’t believe their luck when they found themselves at the right place at the right time. Free trips with bands, unlimited expense accounts and just the requirement to write a few hundred words a week (usually done one hour before deadline). They discovered few, if any, new acts. They merely gathered up the freebies on offer and gave the most promotion to the acts from the most generous record labels. They celebrated this, seeing themselves as situationist art terrorists. The great thing about being a situationist is that you don’t have to move much – you let the (stupid) people come to you. Burchill and Parsons actually built a “fort”. It didn’t matter if they had completely missed whatever was happening due to drug-addled laziness and gluttony, Paul Morely could be relied on to write something long and impenetrable about the subject a year later, as if it was all his idea all along.
The point is that we’re all older now and clever swine, every man jack and lady jane of us.
These days, the power of music journalists is, I don’t know – 10 percent of what it was?
But when we were younger, pre net ubiquity, the opinions of trusted journos were all we had.
I’ll never forget the way that one of the albums that changed my life: Jordan The Comeback by Prefab Sprout, was sold to me by an 11/12 review in Ireland’s brilliant Hot Press. ‘ God, the devil and Elvis; perfect fodder for a (well) hung up Catholic boy.”
Nor will I ever forget the great Steven Welles’ retrospective assessment of The Stone Rpses’ Second Coming.
‘It sucked. Shit. From a dead dog’s arse.’ (BTW I disagreed then – and even more so now , but the phrase never left me.)
One final thought which struck my forty five tear old self – as outside Holborn station I was offered both Sport magazine and the free NME ,directing my chubby fingers to choose the latter- I’ll never again be as touched as I used to be by lines in record reviews such as the last line in NME’s review of Dog Man Star, which I’d taken a train to Madrid specifically to buy ( Both the mag and the record; well, cassette.)
‘You’re a fool, Bernard Butler. You really are.’
I just don’t recognise the myths in the OP. Yes, they are opinions that some people have, but the idea that they are some sort of canonical view on How To Appreciate Music Properly just doesn’t match my experience of enjoying music myself or talking about it with other people.
but FWIW, my take on all of them
a) well, I do pay attention to lyrics. A well turned phrase or smart line means I am likely to rate a song better than I would if the music was the same but that particular bon mot was missing. Likewise, I will be put off by a clumsy or egregiously bad line (it has to be pretty bad though – the baseline of rock lyrics is mediocrity, and you have to sink quite a way below that before I start wincing). That said, I also listen to tons of music without any lyrics at all, or songs full of unintelligible screaming, and I dig all of that just as much, so go figure.
b) Really? I reckon over the last decade of so of music journalism landfill indie, which pretty much ticks all those boxes, has been one of the most universally scorned genres. You’ll always get journos praising someone as tedious and artisanally dull as Michael Head, but then you’ll also find them coming over all unnecessary about Kendrick Lamar or The Bhundu Boys. It’s a perception you might get if you do nothing but look at magazine covers.
c) I really fundamentally disagree with this one. I think you’re in a sad place if you have never had your appreciation of a piece of art enhanced by reading well written thoughts on it by someone who knows what they’re talking about, be it Aristophanes, Rembrandt, or Barbara Ann.
I think this post is like many a thing I read on the internet. Somebody getting worked up about something where I don’t really understand why they’re getting worked up but I thought I’d comment for the sake of getting involved. Critics, they serve a purpose. Some are good some are not. Still such contributions as this keep the whole thing going. Grist to the mill and all that.
Nick Kent’s rave review of Marquee Moon led to my buying it, on import, a day later, not having heard a single note of it.
I still listen to it and I remain thankful for his recommendation and for his wonderful pieces on Brian Wilson which caused me to reappraise and recognise his genius.