The Afterword

Musings on the byways of popular culture

Menu

Navigation

You are here: Home / Forum / Can I have my money back?

Can I have my money back?

by 94 Comments

My wife and I walked out of the Squeeze gig at the Albert Hall last night after just under an hour because the sound was unbearable. We had paid £95 each for our seats which were in the perfect spot in the stalls looking straight down the hall from just behind the sound desk, we love Squeeze and have seen them many times, it was the band’s 50th anniversary tour, I’d read the reviews of previous shows and was fully expecting to have a great evening. But the sound was so terrible we both wanted to leave. How can that happen?
I’m used to the sound needing to be rebalanced early in a gig and I know that the Albert Hall, even after it’s big upgrade a few years ago, can be a bit tricky but I’ve been to plenty of shows with good sound there. Difford and Tilbrook sounded very good when they joined Richard Thompson and played 3 Squeeze songs there in June. But that was with Richard Thompson’s band and sound crew. Last night, when they came on, only the drums were clearly audible, everything else merged into a sludgy mush. Even Tilbrook’s guitar when he took solos was barely distinguishable from everything else. I don’t know whether they were trying for more volume than their equipment could take but there were times when some of the sound seemed quite distorted, especially the vocals. Once or twice, Chris Difford sounded more like Davros than himself – and I know his voice isn’t a thing of conventional beauty but I’ve seen him solo several times as well as with Squeeze and never heard him sound like that before.
After 9 horrible-sounding songs, the sound levels were dropped when they played Some Fantastic Place and suddenly I could hear everything. The bass and rhythm guitar appeared. I could hear Tilbrook’s voice clearly and it sounded fine. His soloing was clear and well worth hearing. Some Fantastic Place is my favourite Squeeze song and I quietly felt thankful that they’d sorted out the sound for that song and started to relax. And then as it came to its climax, the levels started to rise again and the sound reverted back to the horrible distorted soup it had been before.
Shortly afterwards I realised that my wife was having as miserable an experience as I was and we agreed to leave. We had sat through almost an hour of music and found all bar a couple of minutes positively unpleasant to listen to.
And by the way, our seats were only a few yards from where I sat to watch Steve Hackett three weeks ago. That was a loud show and the sound was fantastic. So it is perfectly possible to experience clear well-balanced sound from there.
Our seats were only a few rows behind the sound desk. I can’t imagine that the people in charge of the sound heard something very different from what we heard. So how did this happen? How can an experienced band on a big tour with presumably an experienced and professional sound crew sound so terrible? Can anyone explain? I’m looking at you, @fentonsteve

3

Comments

  1. I’m a video guy who does a bit of conference sound, so not an expert but my initial thought, having worked in The Albert Hall, is that it’s a much bigger venue with a more complex PA than the other venues on the tour so may have been beyond the abilities/experience of the Front of House engineer, assuming it’s the same person doing the whole tour.

    • Probably this – someone out of their depth. I wonder if there were RAH tech crew on hand to offer advice, and whether it was heeded.

      I haven’t been to the RAH for an amplified gig since the late 90s, so long before the tech refit. But it isn’t an easy room at the best of times. The same reason I don’t go to the Cambridge Corn Exhange any more. Btw, there was a public consultation about a CornEx refit and the poor acoustics came high up the list of complaints, even amongst the general public.

      “If in doubt, turn it down” should be engraved on every mixing desk. Quality over quantity, and all that.

      • Years ago I saw Arcade Fire at the Apollo in Manchester & the sound was awful. I was also sat behind the sounddesk & the person mixing was in full on panic mode! We could see them constantly trying to get it right but it just getting worse & worse! I found out later, that apparently they had ignored all advice from the venues crew!

        Sorry to hear about this Steve, we had a similar experience on the last Dexys tour (albeit at a different venue) & the poor sound really impacted on the enjoyment of the night

  2. As I mentioned under Uncle Wheat’s recent review, Squeeze’s current line-up doesn’t lend itself to good sound. There are too many instruments clogging up the EQ and it creates quite a ‘dark’ sound. At the Indigo2 venue last year it was too loud as well, resulting in a sludgy assault on the ears. We stayed til the middle of the last song, but it was by far the worst sound they’ve ever had in my time watching them, and I won’t be going to see them again unless they strip it back.

  3. I heard someone ,can’t remember who, in the music biz that said sound techniques and appraisal via computers mean no gig should sound less than excellent these days. Now I have no idea/knowledge if that statement is true, but I have been to two gigs at Bristol’s new Beacon Hall (Ocean Colour Scene on the weekend the hall reopened and Richard Hawley in June ) and both times the sound was dreadful, so much so that I will not return there, which is a shame as it’s a major venue close-ish to me.

    I sympathise Steve, that’s a lot of money to spend to have a crap time.

    • Just to say that we were at the Beacon recently to see June Tabor and the Oysterband – we were on the far left of the stalls, so probably not ideal, but the sound was fine. I think we actually commented as such to each other. A wonderful venue now by the way – I hadn’t been there since the 70s!

      • Still has chronically shite, narrow seats. Still has ridiculous access limitations. Still has flaky lifts. They spent a fortune tarting the place up and it’s still rubbish compared to other, much smaller and intimate Bristol venues that put on great shows with reliably superb sound. We saw June Tabor and the Oysters last year at St. Georges and it was perfect. I wouldn’t pay to see them at the Beacon though, however much I love their music, the Beacon shed is sonically and in many other ways too much of an unknown quantity.

    • I’m consistently amazed at the fantastic sound bands get these days playing small venues, all, I presume, down to the supporting technology. And this is bands with actual amps, not just dreaded ‘silent stage’ bands.

  4. It’s great that D&T appear to be at least mutually respectful of each other these days, but this appears to have resulted in Squeeze being all of the members of each of their solo bands plus whoever the poor unfortunate bass player is this time. Melvin Duffy (from D’s solo band) is a superb pedal steel player, but it can kill the sound in the mid-range which is already quite full. Only 2-3 Squeeze songs need pedal steel.

  5. About ten years ago, some local arts promotional group put on Paco Pena in Paddy’s Wigwam – you know, the circular one in Liverpool. Nothing against the building as architecture, but acoustically it was a disaster. Can you imagine the echo of all that precision clapping and guitar-playing?
    The promo group had to offer a free gig of their choice to every one of the audience in compensation.
    I went to see The Unthanks. Which was nice.

  6. Simon Hanson (is that his name? I think so) is a great drummer, but he really whacks the drums hard and plays incredibly loud – and all the time. I suppose I’ve just said he’s NOT a great drummer in that sentence, but I think in a weird way he may be the source of some of their problems.

    I love Squeeze, but I stick to seeing them in small venues nowadays.

    I do also agree that it’s the 21st century, for God’s sake – we should have sorted this out by now. Sorry your experience was so bad, Steve.

  7. You should put in a complaint Steve (I complain regularly theses days often with unexpected success). The last 2 gigs I attended at RAH – Kraftwerk and Steven Wilson both both top notch sound wise (and SW is f****** loud) so no excuses for any professional especially at those prices.
    I went to my local theatre in Harpenden on Friday to see Colin Blunstone. The theatre is a newly built ‘box’ with a poor reputation for sound but it was excellent. Just not acceptable to get shit sound these days.

    • Thanks for the suggestion. That hadn’t occurred to me. I’ve sent polite emails to the RAH and to the band’s contact email address explaining what happened. I didn’t ask for and don’t expect my money back, despite the title of the thread. If I get anything interesting in reply I’ll report back.

      • The Albert Hall’s Customer Services Co-Ordinator just sent me a reply. The key bit of his message said this, “Our in-house system can be used by visiting artists if they wish (and we can also sound engineer if they wish) or visiting artists use their own sound system (especially touring bands ), and as you mention generally visiting artists travel with their own sound crew,

        …The Hall’s sound team do engineer some concerts but, on the whole, as a receiving house that hosts concerts presented by concert promoters, the Hall is reliant on arrangements made by event promoters, SJM Concerts in this instance, and the sound engineers they have engaged to uphold the standards held here, although the Hall does issue guidelines about how to get the best coverage throughout the auditorium. Every effort is made to balance the sound throughout the auditorium at all times and I am sorry that you felt that on this occasion it was not of the standards you have experienced in the past. Squeeze and their sound engineers, had sound-checked the concert in the afternoon and did seem happy with the sound balance they have achieved. We are somewhat in the hands of the artists and their sound engineers as to how they wish to present their music. ”

        That seems fair enough on the part of the Hall. If other people can get good sound there then it seems reasonable to assume that either Squeeze’s equipment or their people (or both) weren’t up to the job.

  8. I saw Jeff Beck there and the sound was so awful I went to reception to complain – I had to wait in an orderly queue with a few dozen others from around the hall. As FF says this isn’t acceptable now. The RAH is obviously tricky but not impossible as some acts manager to get a decent sound.

    Mind you my favourite venue, The Stables, always had a superb sound but I saw Patty Griffin there and the sound was awful. I complained and asked WTF and they (not very) diplomatically said most acts use the in house engineer who knows the room, or at least take their advice. On this occasion they, ummm, didn’t.

  10. What an absolute shame. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced great sound at the RAH at all in 30 years. Though that equates to about 10 or 12 gigs in total. Apart from the last half of a Mark Knopfler show in 2007 when the usual muddy boom of the place suddenly cleared into crystal. ‘About bloody time’ went the murmur.

    Otherwise it’s been disappointing. One of the worst venues for sound in the U.K. in my experience

  11. Invariably this is down to poor sound engineers who when things start to go wrong panic, try to rescue the situation, and only make it worse. Of course some halls are trickier than others but I’ve lost count of the amount of venues I have been to where the sound can be superb for one gig and terrible for another. The room doesn’t change, so it has to be down to the tour sound operator and their kit, and, as a number have said above, an obstinate refusal to either listen to the local team’s advice or use the in house rig which has been set up and tuned to the venue.

    There are particular artists who are prone to this problem though. Elvis Costello comes to mind – he clearly wants the volume cranked up to 11 and it does him no favours whatsoever.

    • I know there are all sorts of factors at play, but it is baffling. I saw the Stone Roses a few years ago at an outdoor amphitheater here in Brisbane. The support act sounded fine. The Roses sounded dreadful, and Ian Brown spent the first half of the gig on the side of the stage haranguing the bloke on the desk. It genuinely sounded like a school band practicing in a garage. Then suddenly, as Fools Gold started, the audio heavens opened up and the sound was great from then on, almost as if the mixer had realised the mixing desk wasn’t on. I suppose the advantage is that Brown spent less time in front of the microphone. I saw War on Drugs at the same venue earlier this year and the sound was possibly the best I have experienced in a live venue.

  12. Isn’t this what the soundcheck is supposed to fix, in advance of the actual gig?
    Or is that just an excuse for the crew to enjoy the spotlight and play the band’s instruments for a bit?
    I’m confused.

    • The sound characteristics of the room can change a lot when it’s full of people, compared to soundchecking to an empty room. Less reflecting surfaces with lots of people present and the temperature will usually be higher too.
      Bands who don’t play their soundcheck themselves are asking for trouble, soundwise.

    • Made my first visit back in March to see The Who and, oddly enough, Squeeze at this years Teenage Cancer Trust gigs.

      Very impressive venue. Sound was much better than I’d been lead to expect.

      Rather than the RAH, wasn’t Judas actually shouted out at his Free Trade Hall concert in Manchester on the same tour?

  15. We have stopped going to Cheltenham Town Hall as the sound is so bad . A lot of bands don’t play there anymore so it might be a coincidence. Off to Bristol Beacon next month so fingers crossed for that one .

  17. A handy guide for sound engineers:

    Compression = make shit.
    Heavy EQ = make shit*.
    Reverb = make shit.

    I’m very much of the (Peter Walker of Quad) “wire with gain” school of thought. Take a good microphone, a good amplifier, good speakers, make it louder.

    (*) One of my regular venues is a Baptist chapel and there’s a large baptism pool underneath the wooden box stage. I have to notch out 50, 100 & 150Hz, or the whole stage starts to resonate. The Talent complain it makes them seasick if I don’t.

    • Tiny, tiny bit of reverb on vocals, depending on the room.
      I seem to remember a discussion between Charlie Gillett and Brian Eno (on one of Gillett’s GLR radio shows) about when to use reverb and when not to on vocals. I think the consensus was use a little if necessary on solo female vocals but never on male vocals.
      Except, of course, if it’s The Cramps, where reverb-orama is the order of the day.

      • I’ve seen Thomas Walsh tear strips off a sound engineer in the middle of a Pugwash gig for putting reverb on his voice. Quoth he: ‘Reverb is for feckin’ cheats!’ Of course, he’s got a velvety voice that can charm the birds from the trees, which helps.

        I was doing some demo mixing with the singer in my band last night and she asked for the small bit of reverb I’d added to be removed, which I thought was the sign of a good and confident singer.

        • Whereas I’ve had John Bramwell tear a strip off me for turning off the cathedral reverb during his extensive between-song anecdotes/jokes.

          I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would choose to make themselves unintelligible, but the Talent gets what the Talent wants.

    • I was talking to someone about use of an eq the other day. For speech, I learnt a lot by watching a couple of good engineers who only took out two or three frequencies but took the right down, rather than tweaking a bit out of everything in the mid section. I’ve occasionally stepped in and had to flatten the eq and start again because the sound guy had just got lost in the eq. I always say I’ve got video ears but they’re not that bad really.

  18. I was sorry to hear about your disastrous evening @Steve Walsh. I do hope they provide some kind of refund.

    But your comments certainly generated a very interesting thread.

    I was talking about it this evening.with @Locust and @DuCo01 We’ve just been to a superb Bonny Light Horseman gig at classic Stockholm venue, Nalen . Despite the very high ceiling, the sound was superb.

Leave a Reply