Not much music or culture in this post I’m afraid.
Since I turned 45 I’ve literally forgotten how to sleep. Never very good at it before but never bothered me. Late night, early morning, bit knackered but fine.
But last 5 years it’s taken on its own personality. Dogs me through the day “no way you’re sleeping tonight” and is proved right. Tried booze, but that led to other issues. Now pills, but even near overdose numbers don’t work. Healthier attempts too. Regular to bed early to rise. No screen time of an evening. Physical activity. Pilates. Breathing activities.No nicotine. Herbal teas. All bollocks.
Three or four nights a week are basically sleep free zones. And my brain, body and career are feeling its effects. And all that late night thinking produces many darkest hours. Not to mention a thankfully sympathetic partner who often just heads for the sofa when the tossing and turning starts. When she sleeps she actually looks likes she’s enjoying it!
So any of you grizzled but wise types out there have any experience? Or things that worked. Doctors tell me pill use has to come to end. And then what?
Yours tiredly
I am a fellow sufferer, you have my commiserations. I also have sleep apnea. and use a CPAP machine, I am used to it, but it is an annoyance. Spent a long time taking sleeping pills (no more than 1 a night) , but have stopped that all together unless truly desperate. Am now using (legal) cannabis (edibles), I don’t really get stoned, but it gets me tired. Tends to work for about 6 hours and then the rest of the night is a struggle. Sometimes add some melatonin. Stress about work and other stuff in life makes things worse. Alcohol means I might sleep more initially but it is terrible quality and I wake up feeling more tired than when I went to bed.
Have a look at your diet. I changed mine and a very bad situation became much better. I can’t prove that that’s the reason, but I can’t think of any other.
Specifically, reducing sugar.
I used to have really bad insomnia, but it was mainly down to work stress. A sideways career step took me off the deadline treadmill and reduced the stress.
Alcohol really doesn’t help, neither does drinking coffee in the day to compensate.
Having kids almost cured me of insomnia for nearly 20 years. I still sleep fairly lightly and often wake an hour before I have to get up, but I’m rarely fatigued in the day to the level where I can no longer function.
A lifestyle-changing medical diagnosis changed my diet and lifecycle about a decade ago – so no more going out, late nights, drinking booze, or eating crap. It all helps, but I don’t advise getting Crohn’s to cure insomnia.
Crohn’s not great for sleeping for me, when suffering I need bathroom 3 or 4 times a night, when in remission, like now, can get constipated which also affects my sleep badly
Yep to all that. I only get a *really* bad guts day about once a year now, but it started about 8pm last night and is still ongoing (7am now, awake since 4am). No idea what triggered it, although I did have my flu jab yesterday.
I might not be my usual cheery self today…
Is now the time to ask you about fiio dongles for the laptop?
Oh I say
Back off – this is between me and Fenton Man. (Sometimes I even understand what he’s saying)
Have a look at the Audioquest Dragonfly range. There’s an AQ employee of this parish.
Cheers
Fenton man, better use your head, don’t forget what your red book said…
Same here. At least 2 nights a week I wake at 3ish and toss and turn, generally I get up and have a Valerian tea and go and play the guitar for a bit which calms me down. Happened last night – awake at 3, back in bed at 5, maybe dozed off after 5.30, up at 7.15 for work. Miserable.
I absolutely, definitely sleep loads better if I have a spliff before going to bed. Unlike Dai, I prefer smoking to edibles, and I prefer illegal marijuana to the legal stuff, which I find has no effect.
I’m lucky in that I can usually get up at whatever time I want and I find that lack of pressure really helps enormously. If I know I have to be up at a certain time, it ruins my sleep and I keep thinking about the time. Whereas with no pressure to get up I usually sleep well and wake up pretty early (7ish) no probs.
I also find having a clock that projects the time in big but subdued digits onto the wall or ceiling is much better than trying to focus on a normal clock.
For me THC/CBD combination works, I have tried a few different types. And you need to take the edibles at least 2 hrs before bed time.
Getting up time also is important as you say. My daughter did need to get up 630am to get her school bus, long story but this is changing. If I woke up at 5, I would then generally stay awake until 720 when school bus leaves to make sure she caught it. Otherwise I would be driving her. Really made my sleep worse thinking about this every night.
“If I know I have to be up at a certain time”… What, like 3pm?
Far from! I’m no lazy wastrel. I’m a swimmer. I rise, I latrine, I breakfast, I ablute and I venture forth to swim. All befote the lark has ascended.
‘I need to ablute’ is a common phrase here at Chateau Grey.
“Defecation’s what I need” to the tune of the Record Breakers theme.
It makes even less sense as Mrs F was raised in France and so never watched Roy Castle et al.
Him and Norris McWhirter would have made an odd couple if the show had continued.
Norris was a radical do-what-thy-willt libertarian, Roy became a massive anti-smoking campaigner.
I’ve been there often, and although I’m far from perfect these days I’m much better. It’s dull sleep hygiene stuff for me – exercise regularly if not too strenuously, cut out alcohol, have a regular routine (I’ve just made my nightly mug of camomile tea and will be off to be with a book as soon as I’m a Celebrity is finished). My tinnitus doesn’t help, so then it’s a podcast to drift off which I’ve always found better than soothing music or white/grey/pink noise. So long as I don’t have any major stresses in my life at that point all of this generally sets me up for a solid 7 hours kip, which I value as only those who know what it’s like to go without can.
These websites provide good advice and techniques. They are places to start.
https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/mental-health/mental-health-self-help-guides/sleep-problems-and-insomnia-self-help-guide
https://www.sleepstation.org.uk/articles/sleep-clinic/nhs-options-for-insomnia-treatments/
https://www.nhs.uk/every-mind-matters/mental-health-issues/sleep/
Sleepio.com was the recommended website in our area for a while. I think you have to pay for it (but what price a good night’s sleep). It uses CBT techniques to help manage and improve sleep hygiene. The cbt-i app is free (android and apple) and helps by keeping a diary, using mindfulness and the like. Hope your sleep improves, keep trying different things and see what works (try not to give yourself a hard time if things don’t work immediately).
Don’t worry about it too much.
It’s not worth losing sleep over.
Flippant comment, but when one is wide awake for hours most nights until 3 or 4 am in the morning one can feel pretty desperate. Not a good place to be
Every so often I have spells of insomnia. I can categorically state you never wake up at four in the morning and think “What a lucky guy I am. A beautiful house, a beautiful wife, my ten inch penis, money in the bank, my ten inch penis”. No sirree. Instead it’s ” I’m all alone, the house has gone, I’m skint, thank god I’ve still got my ten inch penis “
You’ve woken up in the vegetable aisle again.
Insomnia is truly a bastard, I can only thank my lucky stars I just get the occasional bout lasting a week or so at a time.
What’s this marrow doing here?
A ten inch marrow? How sweet!
Nice girth!
Nice shine too.
Not sure about the colour….
Believe you live in France? A metric country, seems like you are getting your inches and centimetres mixed up again…
I’ve never been a great sleeper but it’s got worse since my 40’s onwards. I’ve never taken anything for it but have found a few things help. I try to avoid drinking anything post 8pm as it reduces the likelyhood of needing a pee at three.
I also listen to podcasts. I have finally found a pair of ear buds that are designed for sleeping in. They are comfy and the volume has lots of adjustment at the quiet end which is great for getting off to sleep. I find that podcast stop me from either thinking about work or about not being asleep.
These are the buds – I didn’t pay £89 – it was £53 but they are very good at what they are designed to do. https://amzn.eu/370S5bg
Very sorry to hear about your struggles, Guiri.
I have no brilliant solutions but maybe it will help you a little to know that you are not alone.
I certainly recognise your predicament.
I suspect that many of us struggle to get to know those moments in the evening when there’s a good chance, one can board the Slumberland Express. After a while I got to learn my body clock rather well. Get to sleep just before 10.00 pm and I was laughing.
But it’s not that easy, is it? Maybe one’s partner wants to watch some TV with you. Maybe one has teenagers who won’t just fall asleep when it suits mum and dad.
It’s tricky. And probably the moment you’ve found a solution that works, a new factor will throw everything into disarray. It is definitely not a “One size fits all” situation.
Good luck!
Guiri, as a fellow sufferer (in other things too it would appear) I would suggest the old cliche of exercise. Even if just a brisk walk, do it. And avoid booze and droogs too, if you can.
….guy in white boiler suits and bowler hats are enough to give anyone sleepless nights.
I’ve got the hat trick of sleep disorders; insomnia, sleep apnoea and restless legs syndrome. I wear a CPAP mask most nights, unless the RLS is particularly bad, then it’s the most irritating thing in the world. I’ve tried a lot of things over the years, mostly for the RLS; melatonin, magnesium, circadin, CBD gummies, meditation (boooooring, I’ve got a short attention span), mindfulness (difficult when I don’t really know what it is), and a variety of snake oil type things.
Never tried prescription meds, the ones for RLS are the ones used for Parkinson’s, scary stuff, and we had a family member with a rather hefty valium addiction, which put me off.
I used to watch the clock through the night, stressing about how little sleep I was going to get that night, which obviously fed the insomnia. I’ve tried to detach myself a little, trying to not stress about the amount, but celebrating any quality sleep I get (three hours in a row is pretty good). The problems ramped-up when kids came along, but has slowly improved over the years.
I’ll echo others by saying diet and lifestyle changes have helped. Reducing sugar, getting more exercise, talking to someone about what’s stressing me. Covid has of course been devasting for millions, but for me working from home for getting on to 3 years has given me more time to exercise and get stuff done around the house to leave the weekends a bit more free. The call to come back to the office more regularly is ramping up.
I’ve been taking Trazodone for sleep for about 13 years.
I was up to 400mg nightly, but I’m now down to 100mg. I’m finding that I’m struggling to make it through the night just now, so am increasing the dose a bit.
One thing to consider, and I’m not asking you to reply here, is whether everything is OK emotionally/psychologically?
I’ve tended to find that I need those areas squared away to get a good night.
I think a good option is to try to train your brain not to think about it. Concentrate on something else instead. Consider that 5 hours sleep is okay and not a problem.
Eventually your sleep patterns should return in their own without need for medication. My wife and I had a similar problem for several months but eventually it got better to the point where we rarely wake at 4 in the morning these days.
I agree. I often mention to my patients to try taking a ‘mind holiday’ with the idea that thinking nice, relaxing thoughts leads your brain to feel relaxed. It’s also more pleasant to think nice things than worry about how tired you’ll be tomorrow/what a nightmare tomorrow will be etc. I also suggest this-
If you wake up in the night, don’t look at the clock. Looking at the clock wakes you up more and leads you to get annoyed that you’ve woken up. You can’t shout yourself back to sleep. Better off taking your mind on a holiday.
I go to sleep listening to a podcast, and if I waken up, I stick another one on.
I’ve just remembered what an old colleague of mine reported back from a sleep clinic she was referred to. It was a short Facebook post, and under professional supervision, but the gist of it was to calculate what sleep you think you get and got to bed then. Think you only get 3 hours and have to get up at 7? Then go to bed at 4am. Then start working backwards, going to bed half an hour earlier and getting 3 1/2 hours and so on. That was the outline anyway.
It’s also worth mentioning that there is a general, though not failproof, pattern where difficulty falling asleep is linked to stress and difficulty staying asleep to depression. Insomnia makes everything worse, including whatever it may itself be a symptom of.
I’ve looked up the FB post and shared he link my firend provided below. In her words:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/aug/28/sleep-restriction-therapy?fbclid=IwAR15W94kL6YKGJc59P2eQmn-dxPAEC9upk4EcQ_NYeGblKAf3HJ4ArSYJLM
Breathing exercises to calm and focus the mind help me back to sleep. One I use in particular is to count from one to ten and back to one visualising the number as you breathe in and visualising the word ‘relax’ as you breathe out.
Also having blackout curtains helps me as I sleep better when it’s dark and quiet, funnily enough. Retiring helped too as it stopped the stress of deadlines but that probably isn’t very helpful.
Have no problem in getting off to sleep, but once I fully wake up – normally between 4 and 5 am – the borders to the Land of Nod are closed and shuttered in my face.
Generally get about 5 hours a night.
While I used to hate having to do them with a vengeance, have now started enjoying my early afternoon naps.
Factors contributing to my sleep patterns are that I work as a freelance writer for clients in Asia and I am getting on (67! I know, I know, I don’t look it or so people would have me believe with that shaking of the head that indicates universal envy).
This is genuinely my method – complete the alphabet in Beatles songs. Then Depeche Mode. Then OMD. Try it with bands that you don’t know so well.
Beatles – Easy, peasy
OMD – Slightly harder
Anola Gay
Electricity
Canola Gay
Delectricity
Er,
That’s
It
Depeche Mode – fuggedabout it
Your OMD list needs some work – surely the second one should be “Belectricity”.
Depeche Mode is easy peasy. I can also do all the UK chart positions for the 50 or so singles.
I might be accused of trying to make light of the problem but I’m not. I have the 3am stresses and worries with the brain racing off into stupid tangents. This exercise gives the brain a harmless but challenging job to do and more often than not I don’t get to the end.
That I can relate to.
I tend to count the number of hit singles by NWOBHM bands I liked and I am asleep again within 10 seconds.
1. Love Potion No 9.
Er..
A hit is defined as being in the top 75 for at least 1 week.
Ask Angelwitch!
Only thing to add here is that after fifty years on having virtually no sleep problems family and work challenges over the last few years have caused me to wake up and not be able to get back to sleep again, at anytime from 1am to 4am.
After 30 minutes I turn to BBC Sounds and my bookmarked set of In Our Times. The sonorous tones of Melvyn Bragg, plus 3 academics discussing The Proton or Wittgengstein is interesting enough to get my mind off worries, but not so interesting enough to keep me awake gripped. Also the volume level is very constant. Headphones stuffed into pillow with volume down as low as possible while remaining audible. Crucially the bookmarked function autoplays one after the other, meaning you don’t have to stir to find the next one every 40 minutes.
I am prone to waking up after a few hours and not being able to get back to sleep. Has happened the last two nights, as it goes. If I just lie there trying to get back to sleep it generally fails – all that happens is that my mind starts going into overdrive and stressing about whatever work issue is currently top of the list. I also worry about waking up Mrs BB and disturbing her sleep as well. So generally I try not to fight it, but relocate to the spare room, and read (a book – never a screen) for half an hour to an hour, and then try to go to sleep again. Thankfully that usually works for me, and if it does I generally don’t seem to be affected by the missing hour or two of sleep. If it doesn’t I end up knackered and cantankerous the next day, and far from capable of my best work.
Funny bugger, sleep. No pointers to direct anyone, I fear, my esteemed colleague having already linked to a few sites. As and up until now, my only worry about sleep has been why stress and worry DON’T keep me awake, Lord knows I get enough, but, touch wood, sleep has yet much ever to be disturbed. Sure, I sleep a lot, am borderline sleep apnoeic, which may mean that relative hypoxia slips me off to sleep fairly swiftly. I need to be in my bed by 9 of a “school night” and, unless I am out, that extends into my thursday to sunday weekend too. I sometimes wish I could, or at least should, be lying awake, wracked by my thoughts, but it never happens.
I don’t suppose that is much help to any of you guys……. Sorry
Me too. I have a couple of large G+Ts to get me asleep if I am not naturally tired.
Always works.
This is no help to you, but I suffer the other way round. Can’t seem to wake up in the morning, even employing all the “bollocks” points in your post.
As retro says above: sleep, it’s a funny bugger
Thanks for both helpful and humorous comments. As to be expected here. Plenty of food for thought! I’ll give them a proper read and appreciation when I feel capable. Shaping up to be one of those nights again though and I have a boss to meet tomorrow and I don’t think a thread on insomnia is the best way to prepare. Even if self-started! Sleep well if you can.