I’m thinking of replacing my malfunctioning Arcam hifi. Technology has moved on in the fifteen years or so since I bought it, with new features like streaming & multi-room capability coming into play. And this is where I would like some advice before I start getting bamboozled in hifi shops. I guess the key question is what is hi-fi these days? With wireless speakers and Sonos-type multi-room systems, is there still a need for the combination of various boxes of tricks and two carefully placed speakers to get what would be traditionally required as high fidelity sound quality? How does the sound quality of these newer types of system stack-up against the more traditional ‘hi-fi’ set-up? To what extent have improvements in technology ‘improved’ the sound quality of traditional systems since I bought my current black boxes? I know a lot of this is subjective but I’d value the opinions of a bunch of music fans above the reviews of magazines that are a little too dependent on advertising, so over to you folks for any views or advice you can offer.
ATM: New Adventures in Hi-Fi?
As always, give stuff a listen for yourself before you decide. I still rely on a ‘traditional’ seperates sstem, with an added Cambridge music streamer for Spotify and internet radio etc., but I know a lot of people swear by Sonos and the like.
It also depends on what your main source is – do you still play records and/or CDs?
Do you play CDs, and (for the purposes of a control app for a streamer) do you already have Apple or Android devices?
Do you play music off your phone?
Do you sit down to listen, or do you have music on when you’re doing something else?
And how much do you want to spend?
I still buy CDs and would like to retain he facility to play them but at the same time I have my music collection ripped to my hard disk so I anticipate that most of the time I would be streaming from a NAS or somesuch. I do have an Ipad.
I do play music off of my phone but generally only in hotel rooms using a portable bluetooth speaker.
I seldom sit down to just listen to music; almost invariably I’m listening to music and doing something else.
Moneywise, I could be persuaded to go up to 2K or so, but only if I think that it well get me something that is going to last and is reasonably future proof.
Thanks for the responses so far.
My cogs are turning, will come up with some options later.
Another question: what speakers do you currently have and are they still working?
And do you listen to vinyl?
If you would consider ex-display/second-hand you can’t go wrong with the Naim Uniti 2. They’ve just refreshed the Uniti range and you should be able to pick up last year’s Uniti 2 for £2k (replacement model is £3.5k). It’s a brilliant piece of kit (my neighbour has one) – CD, DAC, streaming, FM/DAB tuner, BT, preamp, 2x70W power amp. Speakers required. Naim kit can be serviced to outlast your lifetime. https://www.naimaudio.com/product/naimuniti-2
Oppo UPD-205 BluRay player is a universal disc player/DAC/preamp for £1400. Class-leading DACs. Power amp and speakers required. Some of their (older?) kit had problems with gapless playback, not sure about this one.
Naim Muso or Muso Qb streaming speakers. I know someone who has a Muso Qb (£649) in their kitchen with a Rega Apollo CD player (£600) connected digitally to it.
Where abouts in the country are you?
So many questions!
My speakers are Dynaudio audience 52s and they still work. I don’t listen to vinyl. I’m in the wilds of Suffolk, with the nearest hifi shops being in Norwich.
Those Dynaudios are great and only replaced last year.
I heartily recommend the Naim Uniti 2 – it is the whole XS range in one box. A cheaper alternative is the Arcam Solo Music at £1300.
There are plenty of decent shops an hour’s drive away along the A14 (round Cambridge).
I swear by Sonos. I have speakers in the kitchen, dining room, conservatory and bedroom. I also have a connect plugged into my amp in the living room. It sounds great and is seamless playing my ripped songs, Apple Music streams or radio through tune in. Well worth a listen.
“I swear by Sonos” – I just had a Saturday-morning-cartoon flashback.
“By Sonos!” swear I too, all the time. We have just the two Play5s giving us top stereo sound – don’t need multiroom because the house is small and is all on one level. (I suppose by that I mean bungalow, don’t I – though nobody seems to use the word over here. However.) They’d be well within your budget – give them a listen. You’d have enough left over for some smaller Sonoses (Sonoi?) too.
I shall be leaving them behind for Mrs thep to enjoy when I go back to Blighty, so I’ve been sniffing around alternatives, since I don’t think the budget will stretch to another pair, what with plane fares and all. I’ll be living in a flat surrounded by elderly UKIP voters, so I doubt I’d get away with their power anyway.
I’ve got my eye on these, which have the bonus of an optical audio socket, so you can use them as TV speakers as well. https://www.whathifi.com/ruark-audio/mr1-mk2/review
Mike, if you can stretch (double) your budget, I can recommend the Naim Muso Qb streaming speaker. Bri could also recommend it, if we could hear across the void.
https://www.whathifi.com/naim/mu-so-qb/review
Beyond my budget, unfortunately. Plus – and I hope this doesn’t sound too shallow – I don’t actually like the way it looks…
I think that’s fair enough. After all, you’ll be spending a lot of time staring at it and saying things like, “Bloody hell, I’d forgotten this one!” and “Ewww, I can hear the phlegm in his throat”
Current Play 1s are much improved. Worth a listen
Just got a new black Sonos Play 5 and I’m revelling in the sound quality. 10 years or so ago I would have been trawling through all the hifi mags to try and choose the best separates system I could but now I don’t need to look any further than Sonos.
Now get another one!
I’d get a pair of 1’s @mikethep. Will sound grand in the UK and then let you have a stereo pair or two single rooms when you get back home.
I would, but what appeals to me about the Ruarks is the optical line in, which would mean I wouldn’t have to buy a soundbar for the TV. I used to have an old NAD amp and a pair of Q Acoustics speakers for the tv, but my son has commandeered them, and besides, having to fit the contents of a 2-storey house into a flat, I’m quite interested in small and unobtrusive.
Perhaps a stupid question (no doubt aimed at @fentonsteve). I have recently discovered Amazon Music which is bundled into my Prime package and seems to have virtually all the music I could ever want (every single Dick’s Picks for instance!).
I Bluetooth it to a NAD Viso (my pretty darn expensive separates system lays silent in the next room most of the time) and it sounds pretty good to my ancient ears. I seldom sit down and simply listen, most of the time I am cooking or writing or staring out over the vineyards.
So, Bluetooth from a Chromebook to a Viso – soundwise what am I missing as opposed to sitting in front of my perfectly placed speakers playing a CD through a system that cost around three grand back in the day?
I recently bought a Marantz CD6006 UK Special Edition CD player, which features all sorts of sonic tweaks on the standard CD6006. I’m a dyed in the wool CD user, but I also use Amazon Music as part of my Prime package, which also includes streaming access to every CD I’ve ever purchased from the Dodgers (no small number). I connect my iPhone via a USB at the front of the CD player which then enhances the sound through the player’s own DAC, and onward through the rest of my system.
I don’t have a massively expensive set of kit but to my ears the streaming is as good (and sometimes better) than playing the actual CD. The CD6006 UK edition seems to be getting a lot of positive reviews, and as CD players under £500 go, it’s certainly pretty good, if lacking a bit of beef. The USB socket provides a convenient and relatively pain free method of getting into music streaming.
I have recently bought the same unit after my Cambridge 640 died. I found the Marantz brought much needed clarity and punch to my old Arcam/Mission system, but was disappointed when playing via the USB as it seems very harsh.
In fact if I want to do that, I go back to my old method of Airplaying to an Airport Express connected by Toslink to a DACmagic+. It sounds much better to my ears.
Probably not much.
The biggest problem with Bluetooth is most versions are limited by bandwidth constraints to compressed lossy audio. Only the latest versions of BT (Apt-X, is it called?) can manage CD-quality lossless audio by using data compression very similar to Flac. No Apple devices support it, for instance.
But Amazon Music is lossy mp3 files, I believe, so less of an issue for you. They are being decoded to Wav in the Chromebook and probably lossily recoded to BT, but most of the damage is already done by the initial conversion to mp3.
(in reply to Lodey)
As ever, Cheers!
ps my Viso is Apt-X enabled apparently – no idea if that helps or hinders but another fact I can bore my friends with…
Just to add that the Fiio X5 uses apt-x Bluetooth (of course it does, the wonderful little thing). That machine sending FLACs to a NAD Viso is how I listen to music at home now, mostly. Did I really just write that? I sound like a bloke!
I have (I think) noticed an improvement over standard Bluetooth, but that could just be yer standard “I spent the money and I definitely didn’t waste it” hi-fi listener bias kicking in, of course.
What a life we lead in Chateau Wrongness – why only last week the Comtesse helped me with a little experiment (and only then did we test the hifi).
On the recommendation of my best mate Steve I purchased a Fiio X1 and a lovely thing it is (anybody want to buy three 160gb iPod Classics?). Through headphones and playing lossless the sound is remarkable. But here’s the thing – I have never really got on with headphones (and boy have I tried a lot of headphones), something about being locked inside my own head.
Anyways, last week I sat still whilst the Comtesse streamed Amazon Music through Chromebook and then through the Fiio without telling me which was which. Some of the time I could spot a difference but some of the time I could not.
Given the casual way I listen these days (no more dark rooms, comfy chair right on the sweet spot, large joint in hand) I’m getting more and more convinced there is no need to spend large sums of money on expensive hifi systems anymore. I wouldn’t go so far as to say listening via a phone and crappy earplugs is ok but unless you are a proper audiophile surely the relatively affordable technology available these days is sufficient for most of us?
Once you’re out of the bargain basement, a lot of it comes down to simple physics.
If you like to hear the real sound of a drum kit, or the bottom notes on a bass guitar, or dub reggae, then you need big speakers. If you have big speakers, you need powerful amps.
Bigness and power cost money. I play the bass and my lad the drums, so I will forever be skint and shuffling round the lounge past two wardrobes.
“If you have big speakers, you need powerful amps.”
Well, yes – but…what about big floorstanders with high sensitivity? Or massive horns (paging Mr Moose!)?
You’re conflating voltage with current.
Even at low volumes, you still need low output impedance (which with real-world components you only get with high current devices) to stop the cones flapping in the breeze.
If you don’t use sufficiently low output impedance/high current capability, you end up with the type of “soggy bass” which blighted poor-quality valve amps for decades.
Gotcha, I think….but I’m sitting here listening to a Quad VA-One through KEF Q5s and I don’t feel that I’m missing out on any of Squire and Bruford’s wondrousness or thunder – perhaps the volume is still too low to cause a problem?
Yes, probably. Bass is the first thing to go at higher volumes. I like to feel my trousers flapping.
Have you tried borlotti bean curry?
I have to ask now, @fentonsteve – what speakers (wardrobes) do you use?
I use PMC (Professional Monitor Company) transmission lines, as beloved by professinal mastering studios (and hated by domestic partners).
With a couple of small-scale power stations (amplifiers) to run them.
I’ve seen ads for these, but I’ve never heard them. Transmission lines = quality bass and plenty of it, I assume?
Do you have a view on Eclipse speakers, rumoured to be used in Brian Eno’s studio?
Yes, transmission lines are like long (complex) reflex ports. They lower bass distortion and increase bass quantity. Not cheap as internally the cabinets are complicated to design & build.
I’ve never heard Eclipse speakers but I’ve heard some other egg-shaped near-field monitors and they were great. I’m friends with Brian Eno’s tech/keys player/app coder, so I could ask if you really want to know.
Even though we don’t understand most of what you say (apart from you have spent all your money on speakers and it’s been a long time since your partner smiled at you) of course we want to know what Bri Eno’s butler thinks!!!
“Will Sir be wanting the naughty books this evening?”
‘I found Lady Agatha on the trapeze’ might be the best line from that episode. Or ‘in that case, perhaps I might . . . rub them for a bit’.
Almost the best thing about it is the fact that the butler is Mr Deltoid from Clockwork Orange.
“I’m afraid some of them aren’t awfully decent”
I’m sure you’ve all been waiting with baited breath for word from Brian Eno’s manservant re: Eclipse speakers. Well, now your wait is over. Take it away, Pete:
“It looks like he used to… but that was back when he had hair! I haven’t ever seen them in the studio.”
Breaking News from the Eno studio:
“The main ones he uses are rather lovely; a pair of Tannoy speakers he bought at a second hand shop. They’d previously been owned by a couple who had them playing Radio 4 at low volume for over a decade. So they’re nicely bedded in…”
Macs actually do support Apt-X, but not iOS devices.
First off Stuart take notice what @fentonsteve has to say, he`s our go-to AW Hi-Fi Genius on these matters. i don`t understand some of the technical datails he gives but he`s a safer bet than Lodeystoney who is always pissed up on grape juice.
Seriously FSteve knows what he`s talking about. Now if you wish to incorporate streaming with a CD player (SACD player in this example), I have an Arcam FMJ CD/SACD which also incorparates Streaming. The CD & SACD playback is superb, I`m not going into technical specifics, I go off what my ears tell me. Streaming? I don`t use it, there was a music system in every room in the house before streaming but I did set up a Sonos wireless speaker owned by a son-in-law. All I can say is that we played several CDs through the speaker via streaming from the Arcam and it sounded great*. Whether this particular model is still being produced, mine is 2 years old, I do not know. It cost around £600 leaves plenty for a new amp and speakers. Good luck.
My mate Steve sezs mine is better than yours (and so is my hifi)
Bit early for grape juice so Yorkshire Gold it is..
Hey Lodey, I worked fucking hard to save the money for my set up which is a middling set up at that. Chasing out cable runs, running cables out in dusty attics and cellars, watch that rat shit! Then having to look tough to get paid for my labour from swindling builders.
I too have one of those Arcam CDS27 SACD players and lovely it is, too. But under the hood it is essentially an Oppo BluRay player. Or, rather, both the Arcam and Oppo share the same DNA.
Oppo BD players have for a while been amongst the best-sounding frisbee spinners you can buy – and at a sensible price for a universal player.
And there isn’t an Android app for the Arcam.
My impression was the actual sound has improved relatively little from expensive units in days of yore say seventies / eighties . The innovations are either heaps of inputs coax, optical cables, remotes, and bluetooth. On the speaker front smaller speakers supplemented by a subwoofer instead of two towers dominating the living room that your partner resents.
There is no doubt that you will get better sounding solutions than Sonos – probably by paying a bit more than with Sonos. But Sonos is very listenable and sounds good whatever I throw at it. But the real brilliance of Sonos is the integration with all of my music sources into one app, the robustness of the streaming connection when using its own mesh network and the ability to move from room to room adding that room to the list of rooms things are playing in. It’s positively magical.
I’m a big Sonos user. The play 1’s are great value for money. My main set up however is A Playbar (under the tele) with the Bass bin and two rear mounted play 1’s. When using it just for music it really is fantastic sound.
I’m less impressed with my two Play 5 speakers (the old ones not the new) which I understand are far superior. They seem a little woolly to my ears.
The new 5’s are a considerable improvement on the older design, having moved from a pair of the latter to the former.
I also have the playbar with surround 1’s arrangement which is stunning for TV and films but I stick to the stereo 5’s for music except for the odd bit of 5.1 mix action.
I would dearly love to add the sub, as I understand it improves the sound of the surround AND the 5’s by quite a margin, but another £700 is just a step too far right now.
What’s wrong with your Arcam kit?
Couldn’t you just service it….most of their stuff is still valid….then get yourself one of those all singing, all dancing Cambridge streamers.
The CXN looks to be a superb machine.
Indeed.
Arcam still service my old 90s stuff. Fixed price of £198 though, last time I used the service.
My Arcam CD player won’t open anymore and my tuner doesn’t tune properly anymore. I could send them back to Arcam for repair as I have done once or twice previously but given their previous unreliability and the fact that I’d like the convenience of streaming, I’m looking at replacement instead.
Sonos tends to be in walls or ceilings doesn’t it as opposed to boxes facing you ? I like the sound coming at me.
Er…not mine. They’re sitting on a shelf the width of the room, and the sound is definitely coming at me.
Yeah should have remembered that Mike.
Seeing as you’re in Suffolk, you could go and see Nigel at Suffolk Sound Services in the wilds of Saxtead to get your CD drawer belt replaced and other repairs performed. His workshop is very, er… rustic, but he’s an absolute whizz, old-skool style, and his rates are extremely reasonable:
http://www.suffolksoundservices.co.uk
This dude sells “record players”. I love him already!
I must agree with Stuart. my Arcam kit has not been very reliable. I feel I am somewhat overfamiliar with their service dept.
As for Sonos. I have 2 x Play1s in my kitchen and am very pleased with them. 2 units, paired ups in stereo are a big improvement on just one.
Another vote for Sonos here. We mostly use the connect which is hooked up to my existing setup but use a Play 3 when we want to spend an evening sitting outside We also just added the new Play One which has Alexa built in. It’s brilliant.
Thanks for all the input. I’m seriously tempted by the Naim option, but I’ll try and have a listen to a Sonos system as well given the support it seems to have here.
Very late to this, but I have a Naim UnitiLite playing through two Rega RS7 speakers, a set-up I’m very happy with. I also bought a Naim Mu-So towards the end of last year, and it’s excellent too (you can multi-room with Naim as well).
I went for the UnitiLite because I wanted something I could play CDs on, though the guy in the shop advised me that it was most likely I wouldn’t need it as once you go over to streaming, the need for CD is superfluous. But of course I knew best, and ignored his attempts to steer me towards a Linn streamer.
Well, I can honestly say he was right, I never play CDs anymore – they get uploaded onto iTunes & my hard drive (and now that I’ve increased capacity, in lossless form), filed away on the shelf and forgotten about. But equally, I can say I’ve never been disappointed with the Naim, once you get used to streaming, choosing your music via an app and the fact that it occasionally fails,
Rather than start a new thread asking the same questions, it makes more sense to hijack this one.
Mrs Japanese and I need a new Hi-Fi system. Our current model – a Soundstrom SDAPTIP12 has lasted a few years, but now is the time for an upgrade. Neither of us are what you’d call audiophiles.
We both still play CDs. She also listens to 6 Music often, and I stream music from either iTunes or Spotify via bluetooth. Neither of us own any vinyl, so we don’t need a turntable, and we don’t care for tapes or mini-discs or whatever other hipster formats there are these days. Eventually I’d also like to add some wireless speakers round the house too – kitchen, portable for the garden, bedroom etc.
I’m tempted by the Sonos (or equivalent) range, but I’m not entirely sure what bits are necessary (and what are add-ons I can buy at a later/more affordable date) or whether it has CD player capabilities?