Ok, really struggling to come to a decision on a situation I have so thought I would ask a load of strangers off the internet their opinion 🙂
My daughter plays for an U10’s football team. I have been helping out on request of the Manager with coaching etc.
The Manager himself does not have a shred of football DNA in his body, but had the balls to put his hand up to manage the team. I tend to do the footballing side of it.
To cut a long story short there was a difference of opinion on something, nothing major whatsoever, but the GLW thought something strange about his behaviour and as she is a facebooker (I’m not) checked out his facebook profile.
It is absolutely dominated by Islamophobic material. Not your white van man stuff, endorsing of Britain First and Nick Griffin stuff.
I am deeply uncomfortable with this.
So, should I accept that providing he doesn’t espouse his shite to the girls keep the politics and sport separate, or (as my gut says) get my daughter the hell out of there.
The Manager of a junior football team is a big part of a childs life, especially if they stay with them up to U16’s. Not an ideal role model I think
Any advice appreciated. My daughter has friends there and would be deeply upset if I pulled her out
Ouch. What was strange about his behaviour that made your wife want to check him out?
Hi mate,
Nothing of note, just not accepting help with better coaching to hand and getting stroppy and stand offish with myself about things.
You’re cleverer than he is. I’ve recently realised, through working with some real thickos, how much they resent people being cleverer than them and this can be expressed in all kinds of ways.
Most of today’s politics can be explained by a dislike of the school swot, essentially. 😉
My lad plays for the U12 village team. There are strict FA rules on a manager’s conduct, even at grass-roots level. For instance, he can’t offer the players lifts to training or away matches. Or – David Moyes, take note – threaten anybody with a slap.
My advice is take a screenshot of the offending material and report him to the FA.
I’d shop him to the local press if in the same situation.
I have no experience of this situation (my daughter? Football? Are you mad?), but my instinct tells me that she will find it very hard to understand if you pull her out, and you will feel a bit foolish trying to make her understand.
I think you need to avoid confrontation but keep a very close eye on him, and you are in the ideal situation to do so. My own experience tells me that if you call him on his views you won’t win, but if he keeps his views to himself while the kids are around then it should be ok. A bit nerve-wracking for you and your wife, but could be worse.
If your daughter sounds the alarm, then pull her out immediately of course.
Are we in any way related?
Are you good looking, debonair, charming and witty? If yes, then definitely not related.
My instinct is that his political views are his own business, as long as they don’t impinge on his conduct towards the team.
Sure, it seems he’s a twat, but if as @fentonsteve says the FA has strict codes of conduct and the guy is aware of these, there shouldn’t be a problem. If he’s not, he’s bound to fuck up, at which point report him to the FA.
I think the press thing is a horrible suggestion – no offence to @JQW. Public shaming is the absolute scourge of our times and that kind of thing is precisely how we’ve ended up with the sort of public discourse we’re now saddled with, IMO.
Let her play but with a watchful eye, is what I say.
If he’s done nothing wrong, then fine. Surely best to let the FA decide, though?
Isn’t that what I was saying? 😐
Same thing, different order – notify the FA first.
Ah ok. I tend to start human and escalate to institutional when that isn’t working, but whatever works, I guess. 🙂 Since I have no understanding of how these specific things work, I’m sure you’re right.
I think that provided there is no cross-over between his political opinions and what happens when he is acting as manager of the team, then it’s best to leave it .
However, if anything should happen, then at least you are aware of what to look for. I’m pretty sure that your daughter must play with, or against, other kids who are non-white. Does the manager’s public utterances on these kids change at all? If so, that’s the time to confront the situation – as fentonsteve says, the FA have very strict guidelines about behaviour of managers, so reporting this to the club and then the league would have the most impact.
I’ve thought about the reporting to FA thing, but that is another moral dilemma to tackle.
On one hand, I ain’t no grass…..on the other hand endorsing Britain First is horrible and people with those views should not be permeating grass roots football and safeguarding impressionable kids.
On the practical side, how much contact will there be between manager and kids rather than the parents ?
I don’t know if this is handled differently where you are, but here in Oz, my wife has been manager for many of our kids teams, and at least early on she was similarly unfamiliar with any aspects of the game. Yet most of the managerial contact is through the parents – organising things like training, games and locations, wet weather updates/planning and so on. Very little if any of it was manager-to-U10-player, even manager-to-U16 later on was still through the parents by email or SMS. She wasn’t even present at most of the training sessions unless as the designated chauffeur, and on game day for the paperwork with opposition, or parent wrangling and parent behaviour monitoring.
Now, if they’re going to be involved in the coaching role, that is a different kettle of anchovies though but. I have to admit to being completely anchovy-phobic.
“Parent behaviour monitoring”… oh what a world of hellishness there is in those few words.
Yup. We have been extraordinarily lucky with the parents in clubs we’ve participated in across various codes, but there are some horrors around. There was even a punch up between the parents of two teams in the same football (soccer) club playing against each other, police attended.
I can be vaguely sympathetic – a few years ago I found myself working closely within my organisation with someone who turned out to be a nasty EDL activist in his own time… fortunately (!) he was a complete pig as a personality too, so there was no conflict in my own head, and in fairness, he never brought up his “political” views in the office, but I know it was a nightmare for HR who were regularly being asked how we could possibly employ somone like that, but being able to do nothing about it while he kept such things to himself…
Fortunately he left of his own accord to try for a political career, and is now in jail, hurrah! True Story!
As for the OP’s situation, however uncomfortable, I’m sure that as long as the Manager’s personal views aren’t passed on, or no bias is seen against any of the children, it will be hard to “fire” him (I assume it’s a voluntary role?), in which case you either you pull your daughter from the team, or depending on your appetite for potential conflict, speak with other parents to see if collective and/or official pressure can be applied to effect his consensual resignation…? Good luck, it’s a toughie – I’m child-free, so have no right to advise, but I’d be inclined to withdraw my child from the team, and not be shy about the reason if anyone asked…
“I can be vaguely sympathetic” -AW t-shirt.
I think I’d leave her in the team and keep an eye on things and act of there is real reason to, i.e. he actually does something in the context of his footy role. His unpleasant views are already in the public domain and I don’t think I’d try to create an issue where there (currently) isn’t one, beyond my personal dislike of his views. Net net, let sleeping dogs lie. For now.
Have you spoken to your daughter about Islamophobia, racism, bigotry, etc? You’ll be a far stronger role model for her than this guy, and if she hears from you that these are bad qualities she’ll be that much less likely to fall for any crap he may spout. Not invulnerable of course, so I’d still keep your eyes open, but inoculation is the way to go I reckon.
That said, a bit of research into FA policy on this kind of thing wouldn’t hurt either. I’d bet this kind of situation has come up before somewhere, and it’d be interesting to see what they did then.
There (obviously) isn’t a simple answer.
Things I would think about:
1. Even if he isn’t role modeling bad behavior to the current team, is him being there a barrier to a more diverse and welcoming team?
2. “Hey Dad, I just found out on Facebook that Coach is a racist bigot. Did you know this?”
“Yes, we did”
“And you let me play for him?!!?!”
3. You could always involve your daughter in the decision making. Tell her what you found, and ask her opinion. Whatever opinion she gives, it’s a teaching moment. She’s 15 or 16 – she’s mature enough to be a participant in the conversation.
4. I think this is a personal issue and not an FA issue, absent any data to the contrary. It’s how you – and your daughter – feel about the issue. Unless he has done something that manifestly breaches any CoC, I’d leave it alone. There is also the pragmatic view that if it becomes public as to who informed on him, there could be blowback.
5. I’m assuming your daughter has been with the team for a while. If it’s just Year One, it will be easier to pull her.
6. Let’s assume for a second that his views become much more widely known. You’re going to be the guy who coached with him, with the risk that you will be tarred by association.
2. Kids using Facebook? Not in this day and age.
Seriously, 3 strikes me as a good idea for all kinds of reasons.
She’s 9, presumably. Not 15 or 16.
Yes, she is 9.
Sorry, misread it as U16
To add my thoughts seems a bit glib but I coach Under 9 football and as has been pointed out above the time spent with the kids is subject to all kinds of control (safeguarding etc.) The Coach should never be alone with the team so the “opportunity” for anything untoward including foisting deeply offensive views on the children is unlikely. Casual racism is a different thing and much harder to monitor unless you attend every session throughout which is not always possible or advisable.
That being said, the FA and football in general has a massive problem with racism in all its guises and there is a major campaign to get the mindset changed at grassroots level.
Vigilance is clearly needed and if there is an incident I think you need to report it to the club first and then to the FA (as a precaution get acknowledgement from the club and demand a response).
The woolly jumper liberal in me thinks its wrong to condemn the coach just because he has deeply offensive views as long as he doesn’t share them in the football environment. (Freedom of speech is just that…) Freedom of hate of course is a different thing so if a line is crossed it’s important to act.
As to your daughter, she is your daughter and thus I am sure would understand if you decided to take her to another team, she would of course be upset if her friends were still playing. If you are asked by other parents you can tell them why and they will make their own decisions.
Good luck
Unfortunately, we saw a lot more racism from the kids on the pitch. Our Nepalese and african players were regularly targeted. Whether the opposing players were just assholes trying to provoke someone to react, or simply just assholes is open to debate…
Obviously unpleasant views, but it seems he’s done nothing wrong. If all right wing people were removed from sport there wouldn’t be too many left …
The team formations alone would be a nightmare! 😉
I think this wins today’s 10\- postal order for best joke
Isn’t this why 442 was invented? Alf Ramsey was a consensus-seeking centrist, perhaps.
I would speak to the chairperson of the football club. They have probably some experience of this kind of stuff. I managed a team for 10 years and the club always took a very sensible line in matters like this. If the club is FA Charter standard, they will definitely take this potential issue seriously. And it will be helpful to discuss it with someone who will understand the wider impact of the issue.
If the Chairperson doesn’t take this seriously, you may be better in the long run to find another club. That’s not to say he should get rid of the manager but you, as a parent and a helper, should feel comfortable with the approach.
I wouldn’t go to the FA until I had discussed it with the club first.
This sounds like a plan. If there’s a club/managment structure in place, it is probably a good idea to approach them first, rather than go over their heads to the FA.
Can’t help feeling that something isn’t quite right here, when the debate doesn’t stop to ask if plastering vile racist views all over an (effectively) public forum like a FarceBerk page isn’t, in and of itself, sufficient reason for someone not be involved with any impressionable children in any capacity at all. If nothing else it demonstrates industrial quantities of arrogance born of military-grade stupidity. So grass the bastard up now is my advice. Good riddance.
I would hope, but wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t, that the CRB check required by the FA would flag up racist views as well as any history of kiddy-fiddling.
I can see both sides of the debate. I’m a wooly-jumpered liberal. I’m married to a Spaniard*, yet my mum reads the Daily Mail.
Much like any employer, the FA will have a code of conduct which equally applies to volunteers. And there’s probably a reporting/whistle-blowing process to follow.
Not doing anything wrong so far isn’t really enough in my book to compensate for holding reprehesible views. I wouldn’t like my son, nor anyone elses’ kid, to be managed by someone like that. Nor would I want my son to leave his local team through no fault of his own.
(*) P.S. If the scumbags who asked my Scottish-born-Mediterranean-looking wife when she’s going to “go back home” are reading this, please drag your 6-fingered knuckles back into your cave. She’s contributed much more to society (and to the chancellor’s tax income) than you ever will.
No way would right wing views come up on a DBS check. It’s purely about criminal convictions, cautions and strikings-off. And quite right too. Voltaire and all that.
Bugger Voltaire. Free to hold and express his views, yes, sure. Free to work with impressionable children while publicly promoting them on “social media” routinely frequented by said kids? Nope. Spill your poisonous Voltaire-justified guts on FarceBerk all you like, but get treated like the idiot you are as far as being allowed a position of trust is concerned, you’ve pissed your own bedclothes, you numpty. Back to your bedsit, sad boy, and go trolling again, no-one wants you messing with their kids.
*spits into the wind, lobs tatty copy of yesterday’s Sun, empty Starbucks cups and Ginsters sandwich wrappers into the hedge, starts coughing white van up in cloud of diesel fumes, roars off into distance, flicks Vees*
Devil’s advocate: Britain First and the BNP would both argue that they’re not racist but nationalist. They generally skate just the right side of the “inciting hatred” legal line and as such are merely exercising freedom of speech. They might argue that, say, the Stop The War Coalition is just as extreme an organisation – an SWP front which has cheerily cosied up to Hamas, Hezbollah, and practically every shit-for-brains anti-American screamer you care to mention. If you proscribed every person working with young people who shared STWC material on Facebook, every teacher under 30 in the land would probably be looking for new work.
Being a racist isn’t actually illegal. Inciting other people to share in your wingnut hatreds – that’s the illegal bit. As long as the twain don’t meet, I’m good.
So next time the missus is racially abused, she should ask them if they’re racists or nationalists?
“Oh, you’re nationalists – that’s alright, then. If you were racists, I’d have told you to f*** off.”
See also “I am not misogynistic, just sexist”
Well clearly not, but I also think that’s pretty clearly not what I was saying.
Nobody is saying this guy is actually racially abusing anyone or inciciting racial hatred, are they? And given that, who gets to decide which political views are incompatible with working with young people?
Like I say, devil’s advocate. It’s all about what you’re comfortable with. I wouldn’t be super keen on the situation if it were my kid.
Not the same thing but similar: a year or so back an ex colleague asked me to be friends with her on Facebook which I agreed to as I remembered her to be funny and a decent person to chat with. Once I accepted her request I was subject to her anti Islamic and frankly xenophobic posts. At first I couldn’t reconcile it with how I remembered her. After realising that is exactly how she was I dropped her as a Facebook friend. Can’t be associated with that sort of stuff.
I joined a fairly select clay shooting club some time back, at the invitation (it’s that sort of club) of someone I like and respect, only to be subsequently inundated with emails from the other members containing “jokes” along exactly the same lines. A year later I have declined to renew my membership and the jokes have, quietly, now stopped arriving. It’s almost as if they actually know that they are being vile, but enjoy the thrill of saying things they shouldn’t. And these are intelligent, successful people (almost all men) who are pillars of the middle class in Bath. It’s very depressing.
I coached childrens teams in the Hayes and District League where some teams were entirely Asian. We never had any issues in any of our games but I did hear some horror stories of racist issues from both sides of the fence as it were. I’m sure his true colours will show themselves at some point during the season, who knows what effect that will have on your daughter. I’d find another team, there must be loads about. He hasn’t done anything wrong yet but childrens football can turn good men bad so god only knows what it will do to this idiot
Broadly agree with this. A lot depends on the fine detail (how bad is the FB stuff? How difficult will it be for the daughter to leave the team?), but I’d probably be looking to have a chat with the daughter, explain the situation and then have her step back from it.
What seems to have been generally overlooked on this thread is what started this whole thing off: your wife got a bad vibe off the guy. I’d say trust your instincts on this stuff, the Facebook content is really just a detail, albeit an important one.
Personally, I wouldn’t share a drink with someone who holds these politics, so I’m fucked if I’d allow them oversight of my kids. They’re entitled to their views, of course, and similarly I’m entitled to mine, which is that these people are bellends who i’d cross the road to avoid. If that upsets them, or represents some terrible lack of understanding on my behalf, then – frankly – good. You get what you give.
Do what you feel is best for your kid and your own sanity. Don’t lose any sleep over the rest. If you explain it to your daughter, I’m sure she’ll understand.
Remember also that we’re all big men on the internet but in real life dot dot dot
I coach and co-manage a team with a mate. We’re both Spurs fans and so know nothing about football.
I think you can keep yr daughter playing with her mates whilst closely watching and as leedsboy has suggested talk to chair of club and team parents.
You might be out of step with them !
Are you in a diverse area and does the school and the team reflect that ?
How is recruitment managed ?
If you and she can bear it there’s plenty of room for more humanity in sport you might be providing some
I was thinking about this as I drove home at 11 last night from coaching my rugby team.
I put myself in your position as the coach – not as the father, but as the coach. If I were you, I would have to quit as coach. If it were known that I was freely associating with someone espousing those (publicly available) views, my job would be untenable. I’d also have to think about the damage to my personal reputation as well.
One of things we teach the new kids at my office is about social media. Once you hit “publish” or “post”, you assume it’s public. The same here. This guy is publicly out as a racist – and you keep working with him. I say that not to impugn you, but to express how it could look for an independent third party.
I’d suggest you find a new team and explain why you are both leaving. In a nice, not too intelligent sounding way so as not to upset him, of course. But from a more serious perspective- why wait for him to say something wrong? The guy obviously has extremist views and shares them. Probably not a nice person, wouldn’t want them around my child.