Niche post here, one for the cataloguers and tic merchants. I’m midway (R-S at the moment) through an alphabetical listen through of the CDs. While most artists I listen to in release order, there are some who beg to be listened to in reverse order, as the quality steadily climbs until the sunlit uplands of the debut is released. Two cases:
Oasis. The exemplar. Start with the desperate Dig out…, then onto the Will This Do of Don’t Believe and Heathen Chemistry…the flashes of the old in the rubble of Standing On…the overlong badly produced but at the core there’s a half-decent album of Be Here Now, then What’s the Story and Definitely Maybe. From the swamps to the summit, ever upwards.
Sisters of Mercy: Vision Thing (has Tony James), Floodland (some great tracks) First And Last (awesome) and Some Girls Wander… ok I slightly cheatred as SGWBM is a compilation, but the arrow-like ascent holds true.
There. I’ve shared. Minimum 4 albums, arbitrarily. Or if you want to start at the top, artists whose catalogue showed a straightline descent from glory to gruesome.
Pre-reformation Smashing Pumpkins would be a pretty good shout, except for Gish vs Siamese Dream ruining the graph.
Deus Ex Machina
Adore
Mellon Collie
Siamese Dream
Gish
Is an arrow-like ascent but I am always going to go for SD over Gish. Not familiar enough with their post-reformation output to rate them but no-one has suggested they are anything better than what went before.
Roxy Music – from suave sophistication to degenerate Art Rock.
I thought of them, but surely Avalon is a slight upgrade on Manifesto. But yes the 7-day rolling average is heading inexorably downwards. I’ve started on them but should listen to the catalogue backwards. The thing is, apart from the production values it’s entirely possible that their catalogue could have been made in reverse order from the early 80s onwards. They enter the scene as New Romantic wannabees, have a dodgy disco phase, then hook up with Eno to find their ultimately triumphant art-glamrock groove at the height of Britpop.
For me they started and ended well with a sag in the middle.
Should have stuck with the degenerate art rock. They went from interesting and innovative to slick and bland.
I like a bit of suave sophistication now and then but the reverse catalogue is an interesting career arc as they get progressively closer to the edge. See also Talking Heads.
I hate having to wear a cravat in order to get down with my bad self.
Potentially the wrong kind of bad self, in a cravat.
I’m picturing a trophy room, with mounted heads of Jehovah’s Witnesses on the walls.
It’s a right old palaver getting blood stains out of one’s silk smoking jacket.
I can’t seem to get away from my bad self. I haven’t worn a buttoned shirt for months, let alone a cravat!
Kaftan?
Scrubs, then a onesie in the evenings.
Arf: can you ever see getting back into shirts and trousers again? Let alone socks.
No socks?! That’s just weird.
In the Sisters list of reversing to glory (does that end up with Damage Done as the pinnacle of their achievement?), where would you place Gift in the ordering?
At the risk of having bricks thrown at me I would suggest Steely Dan before the hiatus. Aja is their biggest selling album but for me the least loved of their output whereas Cant buy a thrill and Countdown to Ecstacy were sufficiently exciting to dispel any thoughts that they would become smoothed out driving jazz.
It’s not a common viewpoint – I probably listen to Aja and Gaucho most out of all theirs. And Two Against Nature is nearly up there with the above two.
I love Everything Must Go almost as much as Countdown To Ecstasy, both albums characterised by having a proper band that is consistent for all the tracks. Everything Must Go is extra special because it plays even better if you reverse the order of the tracks. It’s also true of Kendrick Lamar’s DAMN. but in that case the effect is deliberate (have I told you DAMN. is a work of genius?)!
This was exactly my first thought as well, but I thought ‘no, don’t go there mate, it’s not worth it’. So thanks for saying it so I didn’t have to.
Apocrypha. Also delighted to know at one point there were two Sisterhoods.
It’s fair to say there was a bit of bad blood after the FALAA line-up split. One live-performing Sisterhood (Wayne), one album-releasing Sisterhood (Andrew), Gift being a bilingual pun.
Ooh…pardon my denseness, I don’t get the pun.
Gift is a German word, as well as an English one. In German, it means poison (n).
@salwarpe Lived in Germany until the age of 7 and never knew that, thanks! My second fav fact this week after Lene.
My favourite bilingualism is the German word Friedhof, which is pronounced ‘freed off”. In my impish moments I imagine it being pronounced ‘fried off’. It means graveyard or cemetery in English.
Where in Germany did you spend those formative seven years, Freddy?
Gift is also a Swedish word. It means both ‘poison’ and ‘married’. Hah!
@duco01 weird sense of humour these Scandinavians!
Etymologically they both stem from the same meaning as the English word gift – something that is given – to eat, or to marry (the woman in those days being given away by her father like a posession…)
What does that say about The Jam’s final studio LP then?
This sort of works with The Ramones. The moments per album increase as you go back through the Chrysalis years, Beggars Banquet, Sire, before arriving at the monumental debut.
1979s Its Alive marks the point where quality control became shaky
The Ramones is a fantastic call. Again, the trend is straight down from the Olympian heights of their debut. Essential to listen in reverse I would think, then you leave them marvelling rather than despairing. (hello their 60s covers album).
At a tangent, I might suggest R.E.M. (don’t @ me), if only because of a long-held private theory that their latter, least-loved work, is actually empirically rather good (I have loads of time for ‘Accelerate’ and ‘Reveal’), but everyone was just getting progressively more jaded with each release… if you could find someone who had never heard R.E.M. before, and gave them their albums in random order to rate, I suspect the perceived quality curve might differ from the accepted “started great, peaked with ‘AFTP’, all downhill from there” wisdom…
Going backwards it works if you stop at Automatic. Then maybe go backwards again to Murmur.
I’d say it only works if you stop at Automatic
John Lennon solo, at the beginning not confident enough to fill an album with his own songs. Followed by writer’s block and a covers album, then gradual improvement (with one dip) to release a massive commercial success (Imagine) and then the minimalistic perfection of Plastic Ono Band, an ultimate artistic statement. Drops microphone, can’t get better than that.
Lennon’s “Rock n Roll” was conceived as a means to avoid a plagiarism suit from Chuck Berry’s publishers over “Come Together”, which blatantly plundered Berry’s “You Can’t Catch Me”.
Lennon agreed to record covers of “You Can’t Catch Me” and “Sweet Little Sixteen” to settle the matter and recorded a load of other favourite Rock oldies as well, to make an album.
To settle a plaigarism case by recording tracks where the publishing was owned by his own manager (Allen Klein).
So the choice was: get used by your own manager, or record songs owned by your manager and pay him twice
Yes I know
One more, squeezing just under the four-album bar:
Sin of Pride. Whatever.
Positive Touch. Ambitious but flawed.
Hypnotized. Excellent.
The Undertones. No comment needed.
I love the Undertones – but you are not wrong
New Order, except for Movement. Can we just pretend that was the final JD album?
Too much debate about the middle order I feel Steve.
Music Complete
Sirens Call
Get Ready
Republic
Technique smooth ascent
But Brotherhood better than Technique?
And Movement… so no.
I’m no fan of Technique, so I’m with @fentonsteve on this one.
XTC’s de-evolution from Wasp Star/Apple Venus to White Music is quite staggering. I never thought the band who did ‘Statue Of Liberty’ would do ‘River Of Orchids’.
Genesis’ journey in reverse is quite amusing, too. The songs get longer, there’s a brilliant guitarist to be heard as well as the keyboards, and there’s another lead vocalist.
There may be a way to listen to the Velvet Underground from the nifty, bar-room rock of “Loaded”, a melancholic follow up, then a difficult, almost overreaching, noisy third album, which is then perfected with a set of experimental songs featuring a German singer.
Boris Johnson’s favourite Stones’ album is Goats Head Soup so, dismissing everything since then, obviously, my faves are:
Debut, Out Of Our Heads, No. 2, Between the Buttons, Satanic Majesties, Beggars Banquet, Aftermath, Let It Bleed, Exile and Sticky Fingers.
Close.
It kinda goes (almost) with how good the group looked.
Ironically, by Exile they looked like shite, or, if you like, Boris Johnson.
How do you know Boris loves The Goat?
I’d looked up Johnson’s choices on DID for a friend, Johnson chose Start Me Up which is from Tattoo You.
Not mention of the Goat.
What IS it about stodgy Tories and “Start Me Up”? I read in the Tim Shipman book that Theresa May psyched herself up for campaigning with it, at which point that song was immediately Ruined Forever.
Of course this is completely wrong. They really were a band who pretty much improved with every album up to their Exile peak. Maybe the first one is better than the 2 or 3 that followed in the next couple of years though.
Dodgers don’t vote for Golden Age.
The Johnson, who the f**** is “Boris?” thing … I don’t know where I read that, but I must have because it neatly confirms my prejudice against anything the Stones did after the 60s, anything after the 60s, AND my contempt for that lard-arsed piece (born 1964, don’t laugh) Eton-ponce-pudding-pissing bastard.
So I must have read it somewhere.
Is no one going to do the “sounds better played in reverse” gag?
I nominate Iron Maiden, then. Or ELO.
How can anyone not like ELO?
I love ELO, what’s not to like? . I was referring to the “hidden messages” acts put in their tracks which can be heard by playing the track – in reverse! Backmasking, I believe it’s called. ‘Ver Maiden and ELO both have a lot of form in this.
Ah!
Thank goodness I misunderstood. For A man who has no love for ELO is a strange man indeed.
I had no idea that ELO had hidden messages – every day’s a school day.
Several of their tracks feature backmasking (think of the end of Mr Blue Sky – “please turn me over” – for the most famous) and they released an entire album based around the concept!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Messages
I’ve just realised that the Mr Blue Sky end bit was not backmasking, but some kind of vocoder thingy. What a foool I’ve been.
I’d like to thank everyone for being too polite to correct me.
The recent Back In Black discussion highlighted this, but Accadacca get better when you go backwards.
Plough back to Back In Black, and then top notch quality from there back
The thing is ploughing back to Back in Black is a pretty dreary slog. You’d need some pretty serious farming equipment to get there.
Talk Talk would ge a bit of a tragedy in reverse – a sublime mix of minimal classical, avant garde, jazz and soul gradually regressing back to New Romantic bandwagon thumping Linn drums and synth stabs
You see @clemfandango I’ll have to disagree. I think Colour of Spring is their high point. And I’m probably fonder of the first two than the last two, they’re certainly an easier listen,
The thing with Talk Talk, where they differ from, say Oasis [to use to OP example] is that the first two albums are kind of similar, the last two albums are kind of similar and The Colour Of Spring is like the bridge between the two distinct periods or styles. I don’t think it’s that they get worse as you listen in reverse, they are just so different it’s like listening to a different band. Oasis just plowed the same field until it was barren.
Absolutely – Colour of Spring is the bridge between both worlds.
Have been reading some of their early interviews in 1982 and they can be quite bizarre. Journalists were turning up to interview the next Duran Duran and Mark Hollis is talking about John Coltrane and Shostakovich
Well, if I can’t have NO, how about Deacon Blue?
Simple Minds maybe? Though their late period stuff has surely got to be better then the execrable Belfast Child years.
The Fall!?
The Falls back catalogue does defy any attempt to impose a shape or structure to it. Start anywhere and the edges are barely in view.
First Simple Minds album’s a bit rubbish, though. If you could swap the first couple for the Celebration comp, it would work.
Having watched the Rockfield telly doc, I have had Changeling going around my head for days.
Genesis
Staring point is Calling All Stations – it can only get better from there.
And it does – 1983s Genesis is a stormer, and then I think they dip going back with Abacab and Duke.
And Then There Were Three lifts again, and then all good from there back. Stop at Trespass otherwise there’s another dip with From Genesis To Revelation
I’m not entirely sure you’ve understood the premise of this thread, RD 😉
Nearly works, the best stuff is at the start
If you start with Sgt Pepper, and work backwards, you hear the Beatles throw away the old fashioned brass bands, old classical music, ancient Indian sounds, gradually stripping down to guitars, bass and drums, setting the template for power pop.
Or something.
Get Back, indeed.
The first album is and always has been the best.
Twist and Shout?
I’ve been sat gawping at my CD shelves for the past few minutes, coming across acts that sort of work, like NaS and Air, before concluding that your initial choice of Oasis cannot be bettered (although it would be a perfect ascent if Heathen Chemistry was their third album).
Oasis never sounded better on record than before Definitely Maybe.
two candidates:
Arcade Fire
Wu Tang Clan
The problem with your Sisters theory is that “Temple Of Love (1992)” is peak distilled Sisters but also their penultimate release. (I’ll grant you that the “Screw Shareholder Value” bootleg was dreadful, but that at least was the intention.)
Sacrilege! The original Merciful Release 12″ version is the one true Temple of Love. Not that I don’t like Ofra Haza, but it was just the record company messing about.
yes, I like the Ofra Haza vocals, and I like the meatier sound, but the 1992 version is quite a bit slower than the original
To be fair, that’s because the original is sped-up. I don’t think Wayne Hussey and Gary Marx could play that fast. They’re not Yngwie Malmsteen.
The original has Heartland and Gimme Shelter, making for a far greater package than the latter release. Going backwards, I’d say the peak was Reptile House for true Sisters density. Fix is, for me, their best song.
The thing is, Reptile House has a poor production compared to the Temple of Love EP, which sounds a lot clearer. It’s a shame, as I’d love to have Lights and Burn with decent productions as they’re among my favourite sisters songs.
It’s about time we had some Sisters talk in this place by the way. 30 years since Vision Thing this year. Ridiculous.
That is ridiculous. The drummer was always my favourite.
pre corona, there was talk of a single in July. Honest. It would have been this one
It does sound like it was recorded next door, or in a dank cellar, doesn’t it? I remember bringing the 12″ back home in the late 80s and being somewhat troubled by the murky sound. But the more I listened to it, the more I appreciated how it matches the dense, angst-ridden texts and sometimes sludgy music within. I’m playing the 1983 version of Temple of Love now, and (it might be my crappy headphones) but it sounds thin by comparison.
Mind you I’m on YT – which has just slid into the Old Grey Whistle Test Marian – and the sound quality has gone up several notches – Craig’s bass is very distinct in the mix like not before.
Have you seen that the Peel and Kid Jensen sessions have been officially released as downloads Sal? I think the versions of Burn, Heartland and No Time to Cry are better than the official releases. Plus Jolene!
Thanks for the tip, @Hawkfall. I know of them, but haven’t listened recently,
There are some improved versions of the First and Last and Always songs knocking about that are so much better than the versions released. I don’t think the album had that great a production – no matter how many amphetamine-fueled nights Spiggy spent in the studio,
where might a curious gentleman find these improved versions?
It was a slightly off the cuff remark, but I think there are some very accommodating gentlefolk, who have membership of the Sisters of Mercy 1980-1985 FB group.
@Kid-Dynamite. I’ve just refreshed my music catalogue on iBroadcast, and I may have some things you could be interested in (you may already have them). Just pm me your email address
the Reptile House EP was the peak for me.
(lived around the corner from them at the time).
Can’t argue with the repackaged Alice 12″ either – Alice / Floorshow / Phantom / 1969. They were a marvellous band, weren’t they?
Yes. They were.
One of the best live acts ever, 80-85.
Ultravox?
I stopped listening after Rage In Eden, so I may be wrong, but the early albums are surely better than the later ones?
Agreed, apart from Quartet is better than Rage In Eden.
Ultravox died the day John Foxx left and they lost the exclamation mark. The Midge Ure abomination should have taken a new name.
They did for a short while didn’t they, sort of…,U-vox.
After Midge left. Ultravox! dropped the exclamation mark when Foxx left.
Daughter Moles has now made a contribution and says 100% that Rainbow should be listened to in reverse as each album is worse than the last, or that in our alternative universe each album gets better in reverse order. Apparently changing singers is a big thing.
this reminds me of the old Spitting Image sketch that as a private joke Orson Welles lived his life in reverse – starting off doing voice overs then selling sherry, few bit parts in movies, finally taking over leads, and then directing and staring in his masterpieces The Magnificent Ambersons and Citizen Kane, before doing a bit of radio in his final years.
Please post.
would if I could find it.
The Doors?
I did think of them, but LA Woman is a bit of late revival, no? Hard to say an album with Riders on the Storm was their worst.
Tinariwen’s career would be pretty good in reverse.
You could start off listening to their Touareg funky desert blues. Then in the middle of their career there’d be some more funky desert blues. And then you’d finish off at the beginning with yet more funky desert blues. Marvellous.
chapeau!
Having reflected on this for 24 hours, the best answer I could come up with (apart from the best answer so far – the Undertones) is World Party.
Egyptology, Bang, Goodbye Jumbo, Private Revolution.
Arguably Goodbye Jumbo was their peak however I tend to listen more to the first album.
Hmmm @bamber not a bad call that. Obviously Goodbye Jumbo was the biggie, just overall slightly better than the debut to my ears. Bang! had the wonderful Is it like Today but I can’t recall much more off it. Egyptology passed me by totally I’m afraid.
Egyptology is a great album!
Magazine?
I think it works with all five of their albums (even though I’ve never heard the last one!)
No Thyself
Magic, Murder & the Weather
The Correct Use of Soap
Secondhand daylight
Real Life
Many prefer Secondhand Daylight to Real Life, though
Many consider The Correct Use Of Soap to be their best. Those who are right that is
Almost too obvious to mention, but the adult releases by a fella called Michael Jackson fit the bill. And what a wonderful bonus of reversing the tragic trajectory of HIS story … our hero starts off too appalled by his own features to be photographed for the cover of his albums, but thanks to some truly skilled and sensitive plastic surgeons, he becomes a very handsome man indeed by the time he releases the mighty Off The Wall..
Pink Floyd
Start out with a couple of middling albums hinting at greater potential before a new bass player called Roger Waters joins. At first he inspires the band to produce a trio of intense concept albums before they become a bit more of a collective enterprise gradually mellowing and dropping the wider concept pieces.
Then Syd Barrett joins the band halfway through recording their penultimate release before really hitting his stride on their final album, generally acknowledged as a psychedelic masterpiece.
The Stranglers – nobody really interested in their first half a dozen albums, then things really pick up when new vocalist Hugh Cornwall joins, They spend the eighties as a singles act, but never really nail a quality album until La Folie (over 20 years into their career). From then on its a steady ascent to the dizzy heights of Black and White. Obviously they can never cap Rattus Norvegicus, so decide to call it a day. We won’t mention Men In Black…however their sexual politics, never great to begin with, took an ever=more dubious turn.
Talking of, the final tour, as announced both pre Covid and before Dave Greenfield died, has just put up rescheduled dates, and is no longer entitled farewell. Milking it?