Not long ago Kaisfatdad had a post on artists that had media footprint that were massively disproportionate to their original level of acclaim. One thing that I find interesting is the opposite effect: artists who were massive fora period of time and now have become mere passing mentions in the Book of (Rock and Pop) Life. I suppose Wet Wet Wet, The Thompson Twins, and Terrance Trent D’arby would all qualify to a certain extent, but the example that always fascinates me is The Bachelors. They were a sixties behemoth, sold as well as anyone – including HJH. And now? Has anyone over 50 even heard of them?.
Anymore examples?
The one that immediatly comes to mind is Chicago.
Sold shed-loads in the 70’s, but not many punters could name more than a couple of their songs – probably didn’t help by bunging a number at the end of their name for every album.
I read recently that Ken Dodd was the third highest seller in the singles chart during the 60’s, he is still very well known, but more for his gnashers and tickling apparatus than his singing.
A side topic is what happens to these bands when they make a come back. Some go straight to the enormo- domes and start selling out the O2, others make far more modest appearances. I got an email from the snug Jazz Cafe in Camden this week, advertising a Heaven 17 gig. I’m sure Heaven 17 were huge, but the Jazz Cafe barely holds 400 people.
The 80s were the time of my (musical) youth but I was always more of a rock fan than a pop fan, so I may have a distorted sense of these bands’ fan base, but I can see no reason why some bands are such a hot ticket 30 years later while others’ appeal is so much more selective.
Nice one BJB. I always enjoy it when a thread generates another and am very flattered that it’s one of mine.
The bands that were big in the 60s never played anything much larger than a big theatre. Then along came stadium rock and those 70s bands learnt to communicate with a much larger audience. It’s far more of a comedown for them to play a medium size club.
Some artists such as Nick Drake or the Velvet Underground have a legacy far larger than the audiences that they used to play to.
Another 60s band who were giving the Fabs a run for their money was the Dave Clarke
Five. You could probably see them now for free on the boat to Finland or the Akkurat pub in Stockholm. ( a great venue by the way).
Well DC5 were big for about 15 minutes in 1964-5. I doubt you will see them on a ferry or in a pub as the lead singer Mike Smith died a few years back and Dave Clark has held on the publishing etc not allowing albums to be reissued as if waiting for a big pay day to arrive. And it’s not going to happen. He overvalues their worth.
You underestimate the US popularity of the Dave Clark 5. Along with the Herman’s Hermits they were easily as big as the Beatles in America for a time in 1964/65 scoring many chart hits we didn’t get in UK.
The Beatles ran away with it during 1965/66 of course, but for a year or so the DC5 were spearheading the “British Invasion”
Well, they may have been bigger in the States than the UK but NOBODY was as big as The Beatles in the US in 1964 (before or since).
That’s true, but let’s not forget that the Beatles first three singles in 1963 charted at #17, #2 and #1 respectively.
Meanwhile Gerry & the Pacemakers went to #1 with their first three singles (a feat which wasn’t equaled until FGTH did the same in the 80s). So it certainly wasn’t just a one horse race at least during the early months of the Merseybeat boom.
Did you see the recent DC5 documentary on BBC4? Even Macca was on there bigging them up. They were massive in America.
Love Me Do was 1962. At the time Please Please Me was considered a no. 1, the relevant chart for the BBC was later changed. PPM album was no. 1 for 30 weeks before being replaced by …. With the Beatles.
Of course groups like Gerry and the Pacemakers also flourished briefly in those crazed times, with help from Brian Epstein and George Martin.
I haven’t seen the DC5 doc.
Yes, Oct 5, 1962 for Love Me Do. I was rounding up for brevity.
For decades it’s been accepted that Epstein hyped Love Me Do to #17 by buying big quantities and that PPM only reached #2.
I’m no fan of the DC5 by the way.
There were at least four, and sometimes five, extant singles chart in effect during the 1960s, each one published by a particular magazine. The four most significant ones being from the NME, Melody Maker, Record Mirror and trade publication Record Retailer. Until the official charts appeared in 1969, the BBC just averaged the other charts together to produce their own.
The Guinness Book of Hit Singles chose the Record Retailer chart as their source from early 1960 until the official charts appeared in 1969. This chart was the only one in which Please Please Me failed to reach the top, and which has caused all the confusion ever since. The Record Retailer chart was the first to run to a Top 50, and was supposedly less susceptible to rigging than the other magazine charts.
That Dave Clark documentary was produced by Dave Clark himself, and is therefore very economical with the truth.
See also the claims on the front cover of the last DC5 compilation, which made spurious claims over the number of hits, as it counted each song the medley hits individually.
He’s a shrewd of alright is Dave. Doesn’t he release the DC5 CDs for a limited time only then delete them for a few years. When demand has peaked, he’s release them again, for a limited time only, and the whole process will start again,
“shrewd one alright”
Far superior businessman than a musician. About time the tight bastard released the RSG vids again.
Awful band.
According to this site
http://wogew.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-beatles-on-ready-steady-go.html
most of the shows were wiped due, as usual, to the cost of tape.
“In late 1966, when the ‘beat boom’ was fading, the show was cancelled, despite its popularity. Michael Lindsay-Hogg: “Most of the shows were wiped because tape was so expensive, so stuff like the James Brown special and The Who special are gone forever. I took home £37 a week but, every so often, I’d buy a video tape and preserve it. It cost me £1 a minute, but the only reason any shows survive is because I did that.”
According to “LostShows”, out of an original total of 178 episodes, 170 episodes are missing and a further 3 are incomplete.”
DC only owns a handful of film dubs of episodes of RSG. These were mislaid in the old Rediffusion office building, and only came to light when the building was being renovated many years later. These dubs were probably originally made for overseas sales.
Shakin’ Stevens – when did you last hear Shaky on the radio?
There is a school of thought, borne out by facts (statistics?) that he was the most successful solo artist of the 80s.
Most successful solo artist in the UK. And nothing wrong with that,
But is interesting to see things from an international perspective. Particualrly those artists that are almost unknown in their home country but made major waves abroad.
English band Foghat are not exactly a household, even here on the AW. They’ve had a double platinum record Stateside. Cat Stevens was, I believe, still packing them in overseas after his star had waned in the UK.
ABBA were ginormous in Australia and more modern Swedish popsters like Roxette and Ace of Base had a considerable fan base in Latin America.
Foghat was formed by some of the ex-members of Savoy Brown, as I recently discovered on Wikipedia. The only reason I was looking up Savoy Brown was that I knew someone whose brother had worked for some British blues band in the seventies, and I was trying to remember their name following a pub discussion about weak links to show business. I don’t know any of their music, but what’s astonishing is the number of ex-members they have listed in Wikipedia – over 70 from a 3 piece band. I doubt if even the London Symphony Orchestra has had that turnover in the past 50 years
His career’s been a bit Shaky, alright.
I never tire of finding it fun that the pre-hits Shakemeister supported Quintessence at Lancaster University in February 1971. The Kinks were meant to be there too but they failed to show so Quintessence played twice – and were paid twice. Presumably Shaky was the filling in the raga rock(abilly) sandwich.
Apologies if this is well-known, but Boy George owes a great deal to Shaky. Boy George’s famous first TOTP appearance only happened because Shaky called in sick and they needed an urgent replacement.
Michael Jackson owed a lot to Shaky too, possibly.
Bugger – the artwork for the Green Door single was supposed to appear there!
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t490/Rigid_Digit/rFenbpFYDsRx_zpsh6a0g4s3.jpg
of course the OP should have read: “Has anyone UNDER 50 even heard of them?” With such errors I am clearly revealing that I am over 50 .
I always enjoy reading rock encyclopaedias published 10, 20 or 30 years ago. It’s interesting to see who was hot at the time of publication but later fell by the wayside.
For example David Essex was simply massive for a few years in the early/mid 70s but now his records clog up every bargain bin and Oxfam across the land
Robbie Williams was his equivalent 25 years later
How can you be awake JC? Isn’t Australia asleep?
Are you up with the lark or a serious night-owl?
Up at 5am KFD
Rock On is a classic!
I seem to think Rock On was rediscovered years later by a generation who saw something in its flimsy percussive minimalism that was lost on us at the time.
Essex was a chirpy Londoner who was impossible to dislike. He was impossibly good looking at his peak and scored a couple of hit movies, one of them (That’ll Be The Day) alongside Ringo
Bros.
Absolutely huge. Played Wembley. But nobody would be interested in what they’re up to now, and if they reformed I can’t imagine it’d make a splash.
Not many people want an Old Boy band.
Surprisingly to me, Aled Jones is still going strong. He is now a TV presenter. (we ex-pats miss out on this kind of thing).
Not saying for one moment that he has fallen out of the bigpicture but… Bob Dylan?
I don’t think (ie I don’t know) he sells significant copies of anything new released since the seventies and it seems to me that The Endless Tour, Bootleg Series etc are pretty much the exclusive domain of oldies like what most of us are on here.
Outside that does Bob have any real significance for them there young people?
I’m not one of the oldies (albeit I’m also decreasingly young) and Bob means plenty to me, if that’s any help.
Dylan? His last 3 self penned albums reached 1,1 and 3 in the US charts. I doubt teenagers were buying them, but he still shifts a lot of units.
I see that latest Bootleg is No1 – good on him but the point I was trying, ineffectually, to make was that at one point in time Dylan towered above everyone. Even if the Beatles or Stones were selling more units everyone including them looked up in awe and wonder.
Nowadays….?
When was it that “everyone looked up in awe and wonder”?
Oh, probably between 1965 and 1969.
A band who were in the news just last week – The Tremeloes – mid/late 60s they were hugely popular then Zip, Nadda, Fuck all.
Just found this while looking for something else….it seems the Tyrannosauri have all developed sea legs…
“Choose Your Cruise are very excited to announce that they’re taking Rock ‘n’ Roll music fans on holiday again for our sixth consecutive year, with Rock The Boat 6 departing 6th-13th November, 2016 for a seven night cruise aboard Royal Caribbean’s Legend Of The Seas. The sixth annual Rock ‘n’ Roll music festival at sea will showcase our biggest lineup of International Rock ‘n’ Roll Music artists ever assembled on a Choose Your Cruise charter!
Featuring PETER NOONE THE ORIGINAL VOICE OF Herman’s Hermits (UK), GARY PUCKETT AND The Union Gap (USA) , THE FORTUNES (UK), Mike Pender’s SEARCHERS (UK), BRIAN POOLE & CHIP HAWKES (UK), THE TROGGS (UK), P.J. PROBY (USA), BADFINGER feat. Joey Molland (UK), THE PACEMAKERS (UK), very special guest host GLENN A BAKER plus many more!
Music will play from morning until late into the night, and there will be plenty of opportunities for Rock ‘n’ Roll fans to participate in a range of fabulous entertainment experiences and events. In addition, guests can explore the beautiful South Pacific destinations of The Isle of Pines and Lifou, whilst enjoying all of the amenities and facilities aboard the Legend of the Seas.”
All yours starting at a tiny $2390…
http://rocktheboatcruise.com.au/2016/
Here’s a single that it seems was criminally ignored everywhere except for Australia and New Zealand back in ’65….the very wonderful “Mission Bell” by PJ Proby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Nqpcm_3mM
A morbid thought, but how many of those “bands” are original line-up, some even including nobody anyone actually remembers. (As in list the members of the Troggs: well, there’s Reg Presley, but he’s dead, then there’s, um, um? And the Pacemakers without Gerry?)
Troggs
Only Chris Britton left from the original line-up.
Going back to the OP. We had an entire thread about The Bachelors on the old blog (I think I even started it) and there was much discussion of this LP sleeve in particular.
I love this photo, It was taken in the heart of Soho circa 1964 and after much deliberation we worked out the location: Old Compton Street heading west towards Wardour Street (I think it was Archie or Bisto who nailed it).
But what an evocative photo that is. The tiny Austin Seven; the 60s street scene; the clothes of the passers-by; the number plate that would now be worth a fortune (registered in Guildford before 1932 fact fans).
And the Bachelors were huge, scoring 8 top ten hits between 1964-66 along with a score of lesser hits. Their gentle Irish whimsy appealed to the mums (if not the dads) in the same way that Val Doonican did. The stand-up bass and acoustic guitar line-up was already dated by 1964 however and it was a slow decline into cabaret for the Bachelors as the 60s progressed.
I was the one who spotted where it was taken, using Google Streetview.
My parents owned the album, but I can never recall them giving it a spin. I can also recall seeing a copy being used as decor in a pseudo-retro pub in Harrogate a few years ago, probably put there by someone who had no idea as to who they were.
Apologies @jqw for forgetting it was you who did the detective work on the location. I recall that I also found another photo of the Irish lads in the same car parked outside the London Palladium on Argyle Street (adjacent to Oxford Circus) where, according to the poster outside, they were appearing at the time.
From there we pieced together a scenario of The Bachelors touring the West End in that tiny Austin Seven.
Sparks!!!
*ducks*
Wait. Come back. How many actual hits have they had? They do make great records, even with Franz Ferdinand, but their footprint in the charts is small compared to their overall impact.
Stand still, damn it, so I can thwack you!!
I’ve been to a couple of (very enjoyable) Sparks gigs here which attracted a very healthy audience. But it was probably the same people both times and there probably weren’t many civilians.
Critics and hardcore music nerds love them but I agree, it’s been a very long time since they made an impact on the mainstream.
How large a crowd would the Human League attract these days?
Dare was omnipresent when it was released but have heard nothing for yonks.
Here’s a thought. A less successful band (who never really made it big but had very devoted fans) are more likely to get a larger audience at their reunion than one that was very popular with the man in the street very rapidly and thus did not develop a solid fan base.
Discuss, write on side of the paper only.
Human Leagues problem is that a) they never stopped and b) they dont just want to play the hits. Good on them (i was a fan). Still crop up at festivals
What is it about Squeeze that made them sidestep massiveness? It’s obvious that Diff and Till could write and perform exceptional songs. They should be as big as (say) Crowded House but somehow they missed the boat.
Could be an image thing, dunno.
We enjoyed gasping in awe at those Bachelors’ website at the old place. They’ve removed the insane voiceover now (‘Hi! This is Con… and Dec!… WE’RE THE BACHELORS!!!!! etc etc’) but it’s still there, including this hubris-tastic page of contempt against their old bass player:
http://www.thebachelors.co.uk/JohnStokesTheTruth.htm
Incidentally, in late 1962 The Bachelors toured with John McLaughlin. Well, okay, it was John + Joe Moretti + John Paul Jones and other great players in the short-lived Tony Meehan Combo, with Duffy Power also on the bill. I wonder was the Mahavishnu influenced by any of their cheesy charm or maudlin balladry?
Another HUGE act in the 60s almost entirely airbrushed from the decade now were the Seekers. Eight 1964-67 UK Top 20 hits (two No.1 and most of thers Top 10) and two US Top 10s, and a load of Australian hits. When did you last see them on a 60s clip show? Or hear anyone reference them? I’d bet they’re not in any of these current Uncut/Mojo the-60s-year-by-year mags.
But surely we are missing the most obvious Tryrannosurus with minimal footprint: Tyrannosaurus Rex.
The Seekers get airtime every few years down this-a-way when they have yet another Farewell-yes-this-time-we-really-mean-it tour….they all seem to depend on whether Judith Durham feels up to it.
Good lord – not that they’re bitter or anything…
The Bachelors are still down wiv der kidz if this version is anything to go by. They should still be massive.
My goodness, that’s dreadful… I keep thinking of Paul Shane on ‘Pebble Mill’… AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I read that as Rock and Roll Massacres by The Bachelors.
A good example of predictive brain interpretation, Ian. Your brain computed the written information and saved your ears time by telling you it was guaranteed to be a travesty.
Truth be told, you’d be pushed to find anyone under 30 who’d know who this lot were:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f59EKHdeyKc
It’s a funny old game, pop music. In the 80s Howard Jones, ABC, Human League and The Thompson Twins could have filled massive venues in their own right while my beloved Depeche Mode plugged away at provincial concert halls. They watched agape as Frankie took over pop music in 1984 and when they saw the rise of Tears for Fears in the Songs from the Big Chair era, they admit jealousy and could see no reason at all why they couldn’t be as successful as them. So they drafted in the TFF producer and got Anton Corbin in to make their videos and photo shoots classy and Bob’s your uncle.
My other memory along these lines is working in Kingston in Surrey in the late 80s. They opened a new nightclub venue and they had Edwin Starr performing. This was the first time it dawned on me that pop stars who have one or two hits aren’t necessarily millionaires for life.
Back in ’79 in London, my mate and I had phoned for a private cab to take us to Sarf Lahndahn from Golders Green. When the cab arrived, we weren’t quite ready (not sufficiently stoned), so told him to wait. Half an hour later, we staggered out and I rode shotgun. The driver was a tall, glowering Jamaican dude who was distinctly irate at being kept waiting. In an effort to lighten the mood, I tried to engage him by talking about music. After about ten minutes, he brightened up considerably and asked me to open the glove compartment. I wasn’t sure whether it was going to contain a gun, a knife or drugs. Instead it was a photo of the driver in a mirrored costume (think Dave Hill) singing on stage. ‘That’s me’, he said proudly. ‘Nicky Thomas!’, said I. ‘You released one of my favourite ever singles’. Rest of the journey proceeded very happily.
A Jamaican friend later told me he was a notoriously bad gambler. Poor sod topped himself a few years later.
I was listening to the Sewer Robot edit of The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill last night (can’t stand kids so all the school bits are chopped – still 60 minutes of music). Jeez, she was 23 and ready to grab the 21st century by the nuts and then… Nothing. And no-one really stepped into her shoes, either.
WRT Depeche Mode, I remember someone in Mute records telling me at the start of the 90s that Ver Mode had conquered Europe just as their popularity in the UK seemed to have levelled off and then conquered America when that levelled off, like this was all Mute’s plan..
I remember a cooling off in the UK around 87ish. They stopped appearing on every show going and consciously went “upmarket”.
I think they started to have a strategy at that point, after 7 years of winging it.
Elvis Costello had an imperial phase up to 1982. Since then, he’s known for one song and that one is about a woman. He sounds quite nervous when he sings it.