Apologies for the personal nature of this post, but I’m really struggling with money worries at the minute. Not in the ‘struggling to feed myself sense’, and for that I’m grateful. But despite working all my life and having a decent income, I’ve got absolutely nothing to show for it. I lost my home in a divorce and have struggled to claw myself out of debt (currently nearing £20k). My health is poor and I reckon I’ve got 10 good years left, before I have to give up work and surrender myself to the state. I feel pathetic that I’ll have nothing to leave my kids, and all I do is fantasise about one day receiving some sort of windfall that can get me off the merry-go-round.
Has anyone else been in this situation in their mid-forties and been able to turn it around? Or do I just suck it up and be grateful for every day above ground.
I’m not a massive Stereophonics fan, but this song hits home, and the line ‘to get you out of the hole that you dug for yourself’ is one of Kelly Jones’s best.
dai says
Sorry to hear of this. I hardly worked between the ages of 43 and 51. This was initially a personal choice and then less of one. I lived off savings, property sales and an inheritance, together with a huge loan based on the property I still owned. This all disappeared and at one point I didn’t know how I could pay the mortgage, and then my marriage broke up. So I started my 50s with nothing more or less after house sale and division of assets. But I then got back into work, bought another house and am trying to build up a retirement fund so I can stop working at some point.
Hope you can do the same, money worries are horrible
Jim Cain says
Thanks for your kind words Dai – sounds like a rocky road, but you’re through the other side.
dai says
Thanks. You have time to turn it around and you will
mikethep says
I feel your pain. It was only the death of my surprisingly well-insured wife that got me out of the trough of what she used to call brown envelope in the dressing gown pocket syndrome, and that’s not something I would recommend. Can only wish you the very best.
Black Celebration says
Jim, it’s refreshing to have someone talk honestly about this stuff. My only practical advice is to try really hard to lose that “pathetic” feeling because I bet you’re the only person who feels that way. And even then, it’s probably not all the time. Everyone feels like that sometimes. The old Kipling adage of treating both triumph and disaster as the same is a good way to be, I think.
The good news is mid-forties is still young (yes, really) and every time you receive pay, if you pay yourself first and then pay your future self by way of small frequent savings (and then see what can be done with the rest) things can only improve, Practically speaking, if new work opportunities involve being employed by someone who has group life insurance and/or pension benefits, then this is important if your health is a worry.
As I am somewhat older, I can assure you that you have lots of time, nowhere near the home straight – lots of time. All the best.
retropath2 says
Yup, early 50s, massive tax demands in connection with prioritising a disastrous business venture. The then wife then upped and offed, leaving me to pick up the pieces. I appreciate I was able to take down my NHS pension, from 55, which I did, the lump sum clearing the debt. HMRC made me do that, but, overall, the right and only option to losing the house and car. Sure, means my pension per month never attained it’s possible, but, under the circs, a lifeline which was the only one I had, apart from filing for bankruptcy. Which, bizarrely, may be an option to actually consider, if a bit daunting.
G’luck! In ten years time, it may all be a bad dream. Me, got lucky, good woman etc. Mind you, I am the only one of my year at med school still working…….
Jim Cain says
Thanks Retro. The last bit is kind of how I feel. I’m at the age where some of my peers are starting to boast of being mortgage-free and I feel like I missed the starting gun.
dai says
I was mortgage free 20 years ago, no longer. Making the massive decision to move to Canada to be with a woman didn’t work out too well. However no regrets, got a wonderful daughter out of it even if I have much less money
Twang says
Sorry to hear that JIm. I had something similar in 1989, 7 year relationship fell apart, had to extend the mortgage to buy out the departing one which aligned neatly with the ERM crisis and 15% interest rates. I was ringing shops where I’d bought things to replace the van load which departed with the ex. They were very sympathetic short of giving a refund. I had a mate move into the spare room and although I had a good job my entire salary went on the mortgage for a while, leaving me with a burning drive to be mortgage free. I had to wait for his weekly donation towards costs to be able to go to the shops/pub. I basically went on a strict austerity regime – barely spending anything unnecessarily (signature dish – tin of tomatoes with added chilli power on rice…yum) until rates came down a bit after we crashed out of the ERM, then I managed to remortgage.
I had a bit of the despair thing but it was tangled up in a load of other self pity and remorse about bad decisions I’d made that I can’t untangle it with the benefit of hindsight. It just sort of got better over time. I did have a bit of talking therapy which helped me to get it in proportion too. Makes me feel a slight shiver thinking about it though.
Dave Ross says
That last paragraph is me in 2011 @Twang. @Jim-cain I believed I would never be debt free, clear headed, own a property in 2011. Despair is the word. I was 46. 12 years later got some savings, managing a mortgage, a job that pays the bills and is great for me mentally and absolutely at the top of the list a lovely, supportive, patient partner. Tell me this in 2011 I would have just played Del Amitri and quietly cried. It will get better I’m sure.
pencilsqueezer says
Hi Jim. I think most of the denizens of this place are aware of my chequered past as an unpaid carer for many years and the precarious financial situation such a decision creates. I have no qualms about being open about my financial state as it’s still pretty far from what others would consider desirable and I still couldn’t give a toss what others think. After finally losing my home in 2015 my wife and I were fortunate to be offered the tenancy of a one bedroom council flat which we gratefully accepted. We were given the opportunity to keep a roof over our heads due to Donna’s poor health which sadly took a very grave turn a scant six months later when pancreatic cancer entered my girl’s life and seven weeks after that she died. This left me sitting in the midst of the worst trauma of my life. I was fifty eight, grief stricken and completely alone with absolutely nothing but our flat, no income and debts.
I took myself off to my local CAB office and sought some badly needed advice. I knew that the last thing I wanted to do was claim benefits as I wasn’t mentally in a place where I could have tolerated any government lackey pawing over the remains of my life and I explained this to the good folk at the CAB. They did their best to persuade me otherwise but I was adamant and refused to be swayed. I did however ask them to arrange a DRO for me to clear the debts that I had accrued from paying for the funerals of my Father, Mother and my cariad. I have never taken out credit since and I now live completely debt free. During those years I received a small pension from Donna’s former employer which along with making the occasional sale of my work and with the great kindness of a handful of truly wonderful friends I have made it to the age of sixty six and my state pension. I am still far from comfortable but I no longer have to worry about paying my rent which is of primary importance as most aspects of life can be endured as long as one has a roof over one’s head. I live a very quiet life. I still do not own a car or take holidays. I don’t go out very much it’s cheaper so no gigs, no pubs, no cinema or theatre. I’m a home cat. On Thursday this week though I get leave these four walls to spend some time with friends and I am so looking forward to doing so. I guess what all this means is life isn’t only about having surplus money. It’s a necessity to have enough to cover your arse of course but after that is taken care of what you do with any residual funds is entirely your business and by definition not an imperative to living a contented and reasonably secure existence. I would seriously encourage you to tackle your debt problem before anything else as it will undoubtedly be a drag on you financially and psychologically. Removing it will not increase your income but it will definitely cut your outgoings both in terms of your funds and most importantly in the time spent worrying. Pob lwc.
Nick L says
Jim, it looks like you’ve taken the first step (which is also the most difficult and bravest) in starting to talk about it. Please continue to do so now you’ve started. The CAB, like others have mentioned, are often great with the practical guide stuff but don’t neglect your emotional side. Good luck.
Jim Cain says
Thank you for all the messages. Still feeling very delicate but plenty to think about.
Baron Harkonnen says
Good luck Jim, I found myself in a similar situation in my late 40’s. I had good friends and I was able to stay positive which is important, in fact very important. I know it’s not easy but that’s what pulled me through. As a good man once said stay cool, keep warm.
davebigpicture says
Re the debt: this is a charity offering free advice. Don’t ever pay a fee for debt advice
https://www.stepchange.org/contact-us.aspx
Leedsboy says
I think there is some value in never judging yourself, or your position, against peers. Apart from the fact that they are not really a good baseline, you tend to focus on the bits that they have and you don’t (two houses, four holidays a year and a big car) and not in the things you have (hair, better taste in music and nicer kids).
I’m doing ok but my divorce in my early thirties definitely has added work years to me. But my divorce was the best thing that happened to me so an extra few years work for that is a good return I think.
There is a lot of good advice above. Not ignoring a debt and working out a plan to pay it off and make some provision for retirement, however long it takes or small the provision, is a good start. Treat any windfalls as a pension pot top up would be my other but if advice.
All the best – I hope it becomes less of a worry.
Tiggerlion says
I’m sorry about your situation, Jim. There are wise words about debt on the thread from people with first hand experience. My recommendation is to not give up on your health. If you think you have ten years of work left in you, my bet is you have twenty. Keep taking the tablets!
There are three things that help with resilience: having a good mate to have a laugh with (a partner is a different agenda), regular exercise (something like Qi Qong is good if you are less physically able) and a creative outlet (writing, playing an instrument, sketching, making things, etc.)
The other thing is try to relax your mind to get the constant worry about money out. Mindfulness and meditation take a bit of practice but are worth it. Try http://www.calm.com where there are apps you can download.
Vulpes Vulpes says
Gosh Jim, really feel for you – it’s a tough one. But. Up above are loads of useful pieces of advice, and plenty of reasons to think that you really can get though this with a bit of kindly help. To be sure, make sure you Get. Some. Advice. As others have said, there are places you can consult who are absolute experts in navigating this sort of conundrum. As a mere mid-40s whippersnapper I’m sure you have enough time to claw things back. Get advice, get organised, get planning, get better; you’re already on the way.
chiz says
Ah Jim I can’t pretend to have been in your situation but I just wanted to say that the awful, overwhelming fear it sounds like you’re feeling isn’t real. It’s a ghost and it haunts you. There are ways to exorcise it, but you can’t see the answers until they are suddenly there in front of you. It can happen in an instant; a kind word, a good day, someone who listens. It does pass, and you will see the way out. That is somewhere I have been.
Jaygee says
Was hugely in debt after leaving uni in the late 70s.
Ghastly situation to be in as a young man. Must be even
more awful as you age.
Lots of positive encouragement up above this post, especially
about free advice from people who’ve been in the hole
you find yourself in and can help you get out.
Know from personal experience how hard it can be, but
try not to lose hope.
Sitheref2409 says
A divorce, child support, and having to remediate bad decisions by my ex-wife that were impacting my son meant that I entered my 40s in a less than stellar way.
What I did have going for me was I was doing well in my job, and it was well paid. So once I got out of the hole, I was able to start rebuilding.
The current Mrs Theref is however, some kind of financial wizard. Once we knew we were going to be living together, we started to do joint financial planning – which translates as she’s in charge and I nod approvingly. We’re set, together, with the possibility of being able to retire in 2 years.
And I admit it – I got very lucky. I was at the point of having to make some tough decisions about taking on unpalatable jobs in exchange for the pay + bonus + equity.
SteveT says
It is difficult and I hope you can find a way initially of ridding yourself of the mental anxiety. As mentioned above wellness classes might be a good route as long as they don’t add to your debt. If not, frequent walks or a daily jog.
Thankfully I am not in your position now but have been after my divorce 27 years ago. There was a time when my credit card and loan debt was around £45,000 which was extremely scary. Managed to pay it off and have been debt free excluding mortgage for about last 6 years. I am 66 and like @Leedsboy will have to work in some capacity for the next year or so but worth it because I have my best soul mate and friend in my wife.
Assuming I pay my mortgage off this year we will likely downsize and hopefully give some money to the kids while we are alive so that they can get some stability in their lives.
Bingo Little says
Really sorry to hear all this, Jim.
I think there’s some really good advice above on the practical side of things, but I just wanted to add the following; you’re not pathetic, and you shouldn’t feel that way about yourself.
Life is a rough old ride sometimes. You can be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get clobbered. None of us has our true value as a human being dictated by the level of our bank balance, no matter how much society might sometimes pretend that’s the case. We each have an intrinsic worth that goes far beyond that.
I’ve never met you, but you’ve posted on here sporadically for many years, and from that exposure my impression has always been that you’re a smart, principled guy with a strong moral compass. You’re someone whose view I’ve really respected, time and again.
It sounds like you’ve found yourself in a tough moment, but please please please try to go easy on yourself. You’re not obliged to leave something to your kids. You’re obliged to be a good Dad (and jesus, the measure of that is soooo not financial) and do your best to enjoy your 80-odd spins around the sun without hurting others.
Part of this might also be an age thing. I know a lot of my mates have reached their mid-40s and are looking quite critically at their own lives – all that promise and hope for the future has sort of dissipated and everyone is left feeling a bit like they’ve made their own bed and now they have to lie in it, be that a financial mess, a bad marriage or trapped in a job they hate. The feeling is that this is it – that we’ve arrived at the final chapter and we’re left to live it out to the end.
But that’s a bit of an illusion really – there’s plenty of time left in the game, and all the mates I have who are doing this kind of thinking tend to overlook what they have got in favour of what they haven’t.
Keep your chin up, keep paddling and I’m sure the moment will pass and you’ll find yourself in a better spot. All the best mate.
fentonsteve says
I’m sorry you feel that way, Jim. At 39 I found myself in a similar pickle – ill health, mortgage, two pre-school kids, out of work. The only difference was Mrs F was still around, but she only worked three days a week and didn’t get paid enough to cover the bills.
I’m an Engineer by trade and my brain is wired for problem-solving, so apologies if this sounds a bit preachy.
This worked for me, In rough order of priorities:
Talk to your GP about your health. It’s hard to contemplate a rosy future when you’re feeling grotty. I took myself off there, got diagnosed with a Chronic condition and, over the next couple of years found the correct medical regime. I’m physically heaps better at 53 than I was at 39 (or 33, or 23).
Talk to CAB about your finances. We had a mortgage payment insurance. It only paid half the bill, as Mrs F was still technically working. It made us assess our spending priorities so, when I did get another job, we carried on living on beans on toast and saving everything we could for a few years, and paid off the mortgage as soon as possible. Only since then (10 years ago) have we really been solvent.
Talk to someone about your mental health. Your employer might have a scheme, or your GP might be able to refer you. I did, and it helped me accept the idea of having a lifelong Chronic illness. I’m almost of proud of having it now, and it partially defines what I do and who I am. Also, it’s much easier to feel good when you don’t have debt worries.
Talk to your kids. Kids are not bothered about how much you earn, or fancy presents, only the quality of the time you spend with them. At the time I hated having to buy the kids their Christmas presents from an NCT jumble sale but the pop-up play tent/fairy castle was one of my daughter’s fave ever presents. My dad wasn’t around much from my early teens and our relationship never recovered. I wanted to be around mine, or at least available, as much as possible. I hope when I pop my clogs they say “we couldn’t get rid of him”.
Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. 14 years ago I could never have imagined things could work out as well as they have for me. I hope that in 14 years you can say the same.
SteveT says
That is a very eloquent response and one that offers some very good pointers.
I think we all approach such situations thinking there is no way out but almost always there is and it is a case of lifting the fog first so that you can think rationally.
I wish you well and look forward to reading a positive update in time.
Lemonhope says
My very best wishes to you, Jim
There is some great advice up there – I don’t have anything to add that hasn’t already been said, but I admire you for having the courage to post this and I’m sure this is the first step in turning things around
hubert rawlinson says
I’m never sure what to say, so what Lemonhope has said goes for me too.
All the best.
SteveT says
Also on a practical level get the debts frozen and agree a repayment schedule. It should be substantially lower than what you currently pay and if you can save a small amount too it will build up your financial strength.
As @retropath2 alluded to above bankruptcy would be a way of clearing all your debts but your credit rating will be fucked for 6 years.
If you are not planning to get a new mortgage it might be an option.
Junior Wells says
Good advice Steve
pawsforthought says
Hi Jim, sorry to hear about your situation. Don’t have much to offer in ways of advice, but it looks like the afterword have already got that covered. I certainly agree that it’s no help to be self critical and it’s no help to “compare and despair” when it comes to what others have got. Best of luck mate.
fitterstoke says
All the best to you, Jim – and good luck to you.
It still startles me: the breadth of experience lived; and the quality of advice one can obtain from a bunch of music lovers sitting in an obscure corner of the interweb. I’ve asked for their advice myself in the past – and it’s always been thoughtful and sound
h2triple says
Sorry to hear of your struggles Jim. You’re one of us and it hurts to hear of your current woes.
I cannot offer anything more that the incredibly sympathetic and practical advice given above by the AW massive.
Jim Cain says
Just catching up on the replies and wanted to say thank you to you all for being such a kind and wise bunch of people.
In terms of ‘practical advice’ the first thing I did was to go and see my doctor about my badly-controlled diabetes. Turns out I might have Type 1 rather than Type 2 diabetes, which some might say sounds worse, but it’s actually a good thing because it means I can get on insulin and control it instead of eating next to nothing and still being ill.
Maybe I might have more than 10 years left.
Arthur Cowslip says
Now here’s somewhere I CAN chip in. High five for the Type Ones. I was lucky to be diagnosed very speedily, and getting onto insulin injections was an absolute game changer for me after a worrying health decline. Paradoxically, now I;ve never been healthier. If you’re Type 1 you should also qualify under the NHS for the Libre monitor things that stick to your arm, and it’s great for constantly monitoring your glucose and being able to take correction doses of insulin where needed.
Tiggerlion says
Well done! Great start. Once your sugars are under control, you will feel like a new man.
pencilsqueezer says
Good to read that Jim. The first step is always the most difficult but once taken the relief from having taken it is a spur to take onboard further changes. Enjoy your weekend brother.
fentonsteve says
I agree with Tiggs. That’s certainly the route I took.
Do keep us updated on progress, Jim.
Jim Cain says
Thought I’d give an update as planned. Still depressed, to the extent that I only really do stuff that I absolutely have to do, like go to work (need the money, too scared to stay off sick) and look after my kids when I have them.
In a positive step I’m going to sell my car this week, which should get me about £9k, and I’ll replace it with something around the £2-3k mark, thus putting a dent in the debt.
I don’t plan to actually pay off any of the debt with the lump sum, but rather keep it in a savings account so I feel like I have a safety net.
It’s not much but it’s a positive.
Black Celebration says
I think that’s a sensible move. It’s always good to have an emergency fund or at least access to a line of credit – but having cash ready to go is better.
Jaygee says
Good to hear that you are being proactive and not letting this grind you down.
Was horribly in debt when I finished Uni in the late 1970s so I know a little of how
soul-destroying it can be. Never, ever want to go there again
Hang on in there, JC!