So saith Donald Fagen on one of those Steely Dan documentaries.
Of course I wholeheartedly agree, love ’em all. But what are some exemplar examples of fake jazz or fake, fake jazz?
F-F jazz being perhaps the most illusive?
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Rec Room says
Some beautiful low hanging fruit.
“Fake jazz”
Vincent says
How odd: I only discovered Michael Franks on Friday. His live albums with Crossfire and at Montreaux define jazz, fake jazz, and fake fake jazz, and are already a shameless pleasure.
H.P. Saucecraft says
His latest is good, too. Maturing nicely.
Rob C says
Rob C says
Rob C says
Rob C says
Whole album in this link.
Rob C says
Rob C says
One more. Hope you dig.
Rob C says
I’ll squeeze this in too. Have a good Sunday fellow Jazzheads.
*Eno can shove his Anti Jazz Ray Gun up his arse. Om Shanti*
moseleymoles says
Tiggerlion says
Steely Dan are experts at fake, fake jazz themselves. The first record of their’s I bought was the Do It Again single. I was disappointed to find that the A side was an edited version but, when I turned it over, I fell in love, a love that has lasted for ever.
Fire In The Hole
Mike_H says
This rendition of what is now my favourite jazz “tune” Stolen Moments, was my first exposure to it. Quite a clever insertion of a guest artist’s song in the middle.
Shameful jazz fakery, yes, but it led me to Oliver Nelson’s original, which can be found on his album “Blues And The Abstract Truth”. An album which would fit perfectly in any serious record collection.
I was reminded of this by a surprise live rendition of the tune by guitarist Deirdre Cartwright (with her long-term pal Alison Rayner on double bass and local jazz suspects Jeremy Shoham on alto & soprano saxes and drummer Rick Finlay) at the local jazz gig I attended earlier this evening.
Twang says
Rock School! Rock School!
I’m keen to engage with this thread but I’ve just driven from France for 9 hours so I’m just nursing a scotch before bed. Tomorrow….
Rec Room says
Sorry guys, I had to step out for a minute.
Admittedly the curation of my “blogs” is balls. Nevertheless. So “Fake, fake jazz” as Donald quipped… just a joke? perhaps, but I yearn for something that I’m just not quite grasping. Hence my hail mary in the Afterword’s direction. The Massive is (obviously) a shadow of it’s former self since Kai’sFD disappearance. Still I will persist.
Point: We get Jazz. We get fake Jazz. (Noble though it may/or may not be)
But Fake, fake jazz?
Is the first “Fake” synonymous with “very”? Can it only exist in movies? Can it only exist in irony? Can it exist in earnestness amongst the eager neophyte jazz pupil? Or does it not exist at all?
Rec Room says
My appetite is whetted with Tiggerlion’s assertions that Steely Dan produced much FFJ.
It feels so right, yet what are the facts if any?
Martin Hairnet says
In order to define fake jazz, and it’s closely related cousin (aunt?) FFJ, don’t you need a practical definition of jazz? Is there one? Something that most musicians agree on?
My sense is that this is another subjective ‘authenticity’ issue, and that FFJ is Donald Fagen’s expression for a guilty pleasure.
Rec Room says
“Authenticity” I get it. It’s yucky. But potentially big issues demand big sacrifices.
But what if it’s not a guilty pleasure? What if it’s something else.
I gotta go to bed (california dreaming) this is why I never post here. Only here for the smell of marmite anyway. Aren’t all the expat peeps? Except the vegemite people. Sad.
Tiggerlion says
Things go very jazzy on several of their tracks. Pretzel Logic and Aja have several examples and their famous Mu chord is regarded as a jazz chord. Two Against Nature ends with almost a full skronk in the latter half of Wet Of Hollywood.
Rec Room says
Dude, we’re trying to make a distinction here.
“Things go very jazzy” What the-? It’s 3:30am where I am.
Seriously. Check the O.P. & corresponding comments. This is why I never post on taw.
Let’s elevate the convo.
Rec Room says
I’m tapped out.
Exhausted. Done
Yesterdays news.
Rec Room says
Jazz
Classic rock
Post punk
And everything in between
God dammit Man, were the bullwark. Don’t believe me? Google it.
Britain is lost. I love you people, but this is your folk music. No one cares anymore.
Rec Room says
The above comment is completely in-correct.
This is a “blog” about jazz after all.
Please don’t mention V Morrison.
Antiquated, predictable, impermisible.
Tiggerlion says
Let’s examine the facts:
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker bonded over their love of John Coltrane.
Fagen has long favoured a polo neck jumper and they have both sported stroke-able beards.
They’ve always been fond of complex chord changes.
Fagen plays piano jazz style on their first album, especially on Fire In The Hole.
On Pretzel Logic, they Nick a Horace Silver vamp, sing a tribute to Charlie Parker and perform a cover of St. Louis Toodle-Oo, complete with a fake trumpet solo. Victor Feldman guests.
Their songs could almost all be set in a sleazy, smoky club drenched in bourbon.
Their is very little improvisation but their use of jazz chords imitate the feel of fake jazz.
On Aja, there is a song about the artistic merits of being a failed jazz saxophone player, they steal another tune from a jazz artist and they allow guest musicians room to flex their chops but not enough to actually be jazz. Wayne Shorter plays an extended solo on the title track.
Chris Potter’s sax solos on Two Against Nature are undoubtedly jazz but boxed into carefully constructed rock songs, only being set free right at the end of the album.
Everything Must Go features a proper jazz singer, Carolyn Leonhart, tenor saxist, Walt Weiskopf plus Chris Potter again.
Any band that includes clarinet aspires to jazzdom.
Having said all that, Steely Dan are clearly not a jazz band. There are times when they fake jazz or fake, fake jazz.
I rest my case. I hope you slept well.
Rec Room says
Sleep?
*sad face emoji*
“emoji” being an ancient Japanese word for iconography. Not at all based on the english root word emotion/emotional/emote
Pure coincidence.
Rec Room says
Anyone uploaded those sheep hearding contests to youtube?
I know youtube has.
But this is about Jazz, not sheep.
BTW, thanks Tigg-
your expeditious reply is why I come here.
Marmite.
I will not disrupt this “blog” with english sheep videos.
Mike_H says
Here are The Dan demonstrating how to fake their fake jazz in a highly authentic manner.
minibreakfast says
Would this be classified as jazz, fake jazz, or fake fake jazz, I wonder?
Rec Room says
It’s so tricky right?
I’d call it FJ to be safe, but man…
Rec Room says
So a definition of “Jazz”
Bill Evans interviewed by his brother.
There is nothing more pleasurable than hearing a great artist speak eloquently about his craft. About the process.
To be able to create is one thing. To be able to put it into language is another. Wow.
Beautiful.
Thank God for youtube. It’s amazing
Rec Room says
This is like Picasso, Miles Davis, etc, speaking at their canvas/or instrument about their work.
Recommended to any working artist, regardless of genre.
Don’t mean to sound like a freak, but it’s a miracle that recording cameras captured this lengthy exchange. Even stranger that we are able to watch it decades later.
Tahir W says
I didn’t know what fake, fake jazz referred to until I thought of the perfect example. Now it’s totally clear.
The example is Pop Pop by Rickie Lee Jones. It’s a jazz album pretending to be pop. Every track is a jazz standard, but it wants to be a pop record (ostensibly). You see this sets it apart from obvious popsters like Steely Dan who are aiming for jazz credentials. This one doesn’t want jazz cred. It wants to be jazz (fake jazz) but hates the idea, so it becomes fake, fake jazz instead, i.e. pop.
Ha!
Declan says
Back around 1980 fake jazz was in fact a genre of sorts, usually with reference to James White & the Blacks and James Chance (same guy) & the Contortions. Here’s a sample.
Likewise the Lounge Lizards. No purists, some chops, but look at the length of this one.
Then there was punk jazz: James Blood Ulmer’s Tales of Captain Black. Ornette was on there too with his barely competent son on drums. Rob C posted some upthread (but why the Hancock/Henderson/Corea stuff?)
As for fake fake (or fake, fake) jazz, well the mind boggles.