Hang on, wasn’t that on the credits sequence of The Liver Birds?*
*I’d like to take a moment to thank my brain for choosing to retain this piece of information in my memory bank instead of, say, 90% of my O Grade French. Thanks Brain!
I quite like the Glaswegian habit of spelling names backwards, so that Agnes became Senga. Do they still do this? I wonder how much of the Glaswegian language that exists on the Billy Connolly records still exists today?
I think I googled the words to the Liver Birds theme once and it’s by Roger McGough.
It’s a riddle describing two girls who are friends larking around, walking arm in arm. Ends with “what has four legs, walks peculiar? Anseh is two Liver berds”.
Edit – just seen the French remix version up there. Thanks @sewer-robot
Anyway, bri’s OP question. I once used the phrase “much of a muchness” to a German friend and although he had lived in England for years and years, he’d never heard it before. I tried to explain what it means – and he laughed, saying how wonderful the English language is.
He spent the rest of the day repeating it – eager to say it at any opportunity.
My mum says it the “dozen” way but my ex and most of my best friends – all of whom are northern – say it the “threes” way, so I’ve adopted it too. Is it a north/south thing?
I’ve a good Northumbrian mate who used “six and two threes” when we were at college together – my southern version being “six of one, half a dozen of the other…”. Shows both the commonality and variation of English in one go.
I was listening to a song yesterday, written and sung in English by a Norwegian woman (Beate Lech of Beady Belle) and was struck by the thought that though her English pronunciation was absolutely perfect throughout, there seem to be a flaws in her understanding of English idiom.
A line of the song went “with one leg in the future and the other in the past, I face the now that I am able to inhale”.
Uhhh?
“the now” sounds like a rather clumsy translation.
The Norwegian “nuet” (i.e. nu = now, plus the neuter definite article suffix -et) is fairly common, and means “the present time” or sometimes “the moment” (as in ‘to live for the moment’). It sounds like someone has just translated it literally as “the now”, which isn’t so idiomatic in English.
Christ, you’re right, I hadn’t noticed that. That’s worrying…. Still don’t get the inhale bit though, doesn’t make sense in Norwegian either.
Regarding pronunciation, it’s extremely rare for a Nor/Swe to manage the pluralizing s without going full Hissing Sid. My wife still cant do it despite 30 years of ridicule.
In the County Town* of Berkshire (sounds grand, but it’s only Reading), the humble woodlouse is called a “cheeselog”.
Other areas (Wiltshire and parts of Norfolk) have also laid claim to this, but it is a definite Reading phrase (it says so on wikipedia)
* note the word “Town” – it is not, and unlikely to ever be a City (despite what random road signs, and bus routes may suggest)
Ah I genuinely did have relatives at the great-grandparent level who did say “there’s lovely”, but no Welsh person in my family or any other that I’ve ever heard has ever said “look you”.
Literal English translation “little”, “small”. “Bach” is a general term of friendliness or endearment. Used from male to male in place of “mate”, from male to female or vice-versa in place of “dear” or “love” in English.
I lived in West Wales for a good few years and frequently heard “There’s lovely”, “There’s nice” or “there’s tidy”.
Bob is correct that nobody outside of a crude racial stereotype has ever said “look you”. In the same way that actual Irish people never say “begorrah”.
Yeah, what Bart and Mike said. It means “little one” – a term of endearment for a family child. Specifically male, since adjectives change according to gender in Wesh. Hence the Llanelli rugby song/mascot “sospan fach”.
One of the most treasured phrases of my childhood was my grandad saying, when angling for a cwch, “tyrd yma, cariad bach” with a great grin splitting his craggy mountainside of a face. “C’mere, little love”, is what it means.
(He’d also call me, quite often and with the same grin, “gwas y dic”, which my Welsh-bilingual mum tells me “servant of the devil”. I miss him.)
I’m sure you’re right: I thought there’s a gender component to it, but maybe it doesn’t always change. I’ll ask mum, who only learned English when she was 8.
One of my big sadnesses is that she didn’t raise me bilingual. I grew up in England, but my Welsh heritage has always been really important to me. 🙂
One of my great sadnesses (different sort, maybe) is that I took O level Welsh. What a total waste of time and someone else’s money that turned out to be.
I moved to Wales just before my 12th birthday, and had 2 and a bit years of compulsory Welsh lessons as a consequence. I suppose I can feel a bit smug because I know how to pronounce Welsh words, but the only lasting benefit is that I can count from 1 to 10 in Welsh if required. I used to know the Welsh for ‘Mr Jones had bacon and eggs for breakfast’, but that got shaken loose somewhere along the way, and to be honest I can’t think of a situation where it would have come in handy anyway, so it’s no great loss.
A couple of Geordie ones.. Gan Canny Bonny Lad = watch yourself, Wheyabuggerman = well really !! Hoyin’ it Doon = Raining, Chuckin’it Doon = Raining a tad heavier !!
There’s a few Northern Ireland phrases but they all clubbed together, called themselves ‘Ulster Scots’ and got a load of public money.
I’ve always been bemused at a phrase used by people in Edinburgh talking about working in Glasgow. They’ll say ‘he’s through at Glasgow’. I’ve never come across this ‘through at’ construction anywhere else.
Seems like a more polite version of “like a spare p***k at an orgy”, which in turn reminds me of my favourite term of abuse from youthful days, which I think is local – that fella is a p***k with ears…
I once used the word daft in conversation with an American friend and he didn’t know what it meant. I can’t recall hearing it in an American film or TV show.
There’s a glossary of Glaswegian schoolyard terminology in the back of Christopher Brookmyre’s “A Tale Etched In Blood And Hard Black Pencil”. Most informative.
You British types were probably dazzled as small kids by the exotic language on Sesame Street, where “grouches” lived in “trash cans” and monsters ate “cookies” while talking about a letter “zee”. Me too, but I was just as freaked out by Play School, where if you didn’t feel well you were “ill” or “poorly” and they all liked to be beside the “seaside” and there was an extra meal just for English children called “supper”.
To this day, I’ve yet to encounter a Hamble or a Jemimah…
I read somewhere that the presenters of Play School hated the Hamble doll, and used to kick it around the studio. How sad. Brian Cant? Brian C*nt more like.
For years I thought stair rods were the down poles on bannisters. When I found out what they actually were I think this phrase became even more meaningful. I wouldn’t want to be hit on the head by either, mind
Hawkfall says
Hang on, wasn’t that on the credits sequence of The Liver Birds?*
*I’d like to take a moment to thank my brain for choosing to retain this piece of information in my memory bank instead of, say, 90% of my O Grade French. Thanks Brain!
Sewer Robot says
🎵Quoi avez quatres jambes, marcher dans une manière étrange et parler avec touts les mots risqués. Quoi avec quartres bras, aimer de vous embrasser..?
Le solution: C’est Les Liver Birds!🎵
(*Votre Francais et une pile de merde, Monsieur*)
nigelthebald says
As SR has hinted above, @Hawkfall, it was. Almost.
The sequence actually went: “You dancin’? You askin’?…”
bang em in bingham says
Its also used on an early Mike Harding album…i think the phrase emerged from the |North West…probably Manc or Scouse
Hawkfall says
I quite like the Glaswegian habit of spelling names backwards, so that Agnes became Senga. Do they still do this? I wonder how much of the Glaswegian language that exists on the Billy Connolly records still exists today?
Stephen G says
It’s not really a habit – that’s the only example I can think of .
The “you dancin?” thing was indeed from the Liver Birds credits, so is presumably a Liverpool thing.
Billybob Dylan says
Midge Ure is actually a Jim, and when he was in a band with another Jim he became ‘Mij’ to avoid confusion.
Stephen G says
Never knew that – I thought it was because he’s a wee guy.
Still not a specifically “Glasgow ” thing though.
Black Celebration says
I think I googled the words to the Liver Birds theme once and it’s by Roger McGough.
It’s a riddle describing two girls who are friends larking around, walking arm in arm. Ends with “what has four legs, walks peculiar? Anseh is two Liver berds”.
Edit – just seen the French remix version up there. Thanks @sewer-robot
count jim moriarty says
The full version:
What’s got four legs, walks peculiar
Talks with all the choicest werds
What’s got four arms, loves to grab yer?
Anseh is two Liver berds”.
Kaisfatdad says
As you probably know, several words used in Yorkshire have Nordic roots.
The children are laiking (playing) is from the same root as the Swedish verb leka.
Fill your boots, Bri!
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/as-i-was-saying-an-a-z-of-yorkshire-dialect-1-3035446
Black Celebration says
Anyway, bri’s OP question. I once used the phrase “much of a muchness” to a German friend and although he had lived in England for years and years, he’d never heard it before. I tried to explain what it means – and he laughed, saying how wonderful the English language is.
He spent the rest of the day repeating it – eager to say it at any opportunity.
JustB says
Is “six and two threes” uniquely British? I like that one.
bobness says
That is indeed a tremendous way of saying that it basically doesn’t matter. Rooted in dominoes?
chiz says
‘Rooted in Dominoes’ sounds like the worst end to a Saturday night ever
JustB says
Genuine lol. Marginally better than being fingered in Topps.
bobness says
I suspect a few Aussies in the big cities have heard this phrase before…
davebigpicture says
I’ve always known that as “Six of one, half a dozen of the other.”
Six Of One is also the name of The Prisoner Appreciation Society.
JustB says
My mum says it the “dozen” way but my ex and most of my best friends – all of whom are northern – say it the “threes” way, so I’ve adopted it too. Is it a north/south thing?
davebigpicture says
Possibly. I’ve never lived North of Milton Keynes. There be dragons!
Stephen G says
Always “six and half a dozen” here (Glasgow).
Very occasionally (just to be different):
“Seventy-two and half a gross”
Lando Cakes says
Or indeed “It’s yin wan”
Beezer says
Six and two threes. A Geordie one. Or, at least I know it as such.
I said this very thing at work (in London) to a lady from Surrey only last Friday.
‘Is that a Newcastle thing, then?’, she said. Before singing ‘When The Boat Comes In’ to me. Naturellement.
Milkybarnick says
I’ve a good Northumbrian mate who used “six and two threes” when we were at college together – my southern version being “six of one, half a dozen of the other…”. Shows both the commonality and variation of English in one go.
mikethep says
See also swings and roundabouts…
mikethep says
I would love to know what “much of a muchness” is in German…
GCU Grey Area says
Is there a German word for ‘a German word describing something for which there’s no simple English word’?
Badlands says
I had a German customer many years ago, a professor from Bonn (not particularly pleasant) who worked for a large pharma organisation. He used to say:
Das ist mir doch scheiĂźegal = I don’t give a sh*t, or it makes no difference .
ScheiĂźegal is literally ‘Sh*t equal’
Rigid Digit says
Another phrase for conveying “not much” – the square root of f**k all
Mike_H says
I was listening to a song yesterday, written and sung in English by a Norwegian woman (Beate Lech of Beady Belle) and was struck by the thought that though her English pronunciation was absolutely perfect throughout, there seem to be a flaws in her understanding of English idiom.
A line of the song went “with one leg in the future and the other in the past, I face the now that I am able to inhale”.
Uhhh?
duco01 says
“the now” sounds like a rather clumsy translation.
The Norwegian “nuet” (i.e. nu = now, plus the neuter definite article suffix -et) is fairly common, and means “the present time” or sometimes “the moment” (as in ‘to live for the moment’). It sounds like someone has just translated it literally as “the now”, which isn’t so idiomatic in English.
Mike_H says
It was the use of “leg” rather than “foot” that first attracted my attention.
Sid Williams says
Christ, you’re right, I hadn’t noticed that. That’s worrying…. Still don’t get the inhale bit though, doesn’t make sense in Norwegian either.
Regarding pronunciation, it’s extremely rare for a Nor/Swe to manage the pluralizing s without going full Hissing Sid. My wife still cant do it despite 30 years of ridicule.
James Taylor says
“Going round the Wrekin”
Milkybarnick says
Ha ha. I went over the Wrekin on Cadet camp once. It’s bloody high.
Badlands says
The Pot Calling The Kettle Black. (Once heard in response to an accusation as: – Dear Kettle, Love Pot!)
Rigid Digit says
In the County Town* of Berkshire (sounds grand, but it’s only Reading), the humble woodlouse is called a “cheeselog”.
Other areas (Wiltshire and parts of Norfolk) have also laid claim to this, but it is a definite Reading phrase (it says so on wikipedia)
* note the word “Town” – it is not, and unlikely to ever be a City (despite what random road signs, and bus routes may suggest)
Uncle Wheaty says
What a load of “squit”…Norfolk.
Used to describe something believed to be completely untrue or unbelievable
dai says
Plenty in Welsh English or Wenglish, we talk tidy there!
“I’ll be there now” = He will be there soon
“He’s bad, under the doctor” = he is unwell, and is seeing a physician
“Twp as a sledge” = not particularly intelligent
Bartleby says
Over by here mun!
Mike_H says
In Wales “I’ll Be There Now” means any time in the remainder of your or the person who says it’s lifetime. Just letting you know.
Vulpes Vulpes says
There’s lovely.
dai says
Only heard in sitcoms.
JustB says
Ah I genuinely did have relatives at the great-grandparent level who did say “there’s lovely”, but no Welsh person in my family or any other that I’ve ever heard has ever said “look you”.
Moose the Mooche says
What about “bach”? The Welsh equivalent of “Ee, bah gum” or “Ecky thump”.
Mike_H says
Literal English translation “little”, “small”. “Bach” is a general term of friendliness or endearment. Used from male to male in place of “mate”, from male to female or vice-versa in place of “dear” or “love” in English.
I lived in West Wales for a good few years and frequently heard “There’s lovely”, “There’s nice” or “there’s tidy”.
Bob is correct that nobody outside of a crude racial stereotype has ever said “look you”. In the same way that actual Irish people never say “begorrah”.
Bartleby says
My folks and family say “there’s lovely”. Bach only used to a younger person in my experience. You don’t tend to call a mate “little one”.
Bartleby says
“Butt” or “butty” is to a mate.
JustB says
Yeah, what Bart and Mike said. It means “little one” – a term of endearment for a family child. Specifically male, since adjectives change according to gender in Wesh. Hence the Llanelli rugby song/mascot “sospan fach”.
One of the most treasured phrases of my childhood was my grandad saying, when angling for a cwch, “tyrd yma, cariad bach” with a great grin splitting his craggy mountainside of a face. “C’mere, little love”, is what it means.
(He’d also call me, quite often and with the same grin, “gwas y dic”, which my Welsh-bilingual mum tells me “servant of the devil”. I miss him.)
Bartleby says
Cwtch and cariad are the greatest Welsh contributions to language!
Bach is male and femaie, I think. Fach is just the mutated version (ie changes to f after certain letters).
JustB says
I’m sure you’re right: I thought there’s a gender component to it, but maybe it doesn’t always change. I’ll ask mum, who only learned English when she was 8.
One of my big sadnesses is that she didn’t raise me bilingual. I grew up in England, but my Welsh heritage has always been really important to me. 🙂
Bartleby says
One of my great sadnesses (different sort, maybe) is that I took O level Welsh. What a total waste of time and someone else’s money that turned out to be.
Gatz says
I moved to Wales just before my 12th birthday, and had 2 and a bit years of compulsory Welsh lessons as a consequence. I suppose I can feel a bit smug because I know how to pronounce Welsh words, but the only lasting benefit is that I can count from 1 to 10 in Welsh if required. I used to know the Welsh for ‘Mr Jones had bacon and eggs for breakfast’, but that got shaken loose somewhere along the way, and to be honest I can’t think of a situation where it would have come in handy anyway, so it’s no great loss.
Moose the Mooche says
Blummen flip! What a flamin’ lummox of a thread!
Iggypop1 says
A couple of Geordie ones.. Gan Canny Bonny Lad = watch yourself, Wheyabuggerman = well really !! Hoyin’ it Doon = Raining, Chuckin’it Doon = Raining a tad heavier !!
mikethep says
Calling @colin-h…
Colin H says
What can I say/ Hoooooooooooooooooooooooway!
There’s a few Northern Ireland phrases but they all clubbed together, called themselves ‘Ulster Scots’ and got a load of public money.
I’ve always been bemused at a phrase used by people in Edinburgh talking about working in Glasgow. They’ll say ‘he’s through at Glasgow’. I’ve never come across this ‘through at’ construction anywhere else.
Sitheref2409 says
I think it extends to Fife and some of Lothian as well. I remember hearing that when with my Dad and family in Kelty
bigstevie says
It’s just geography innit.
If you’re in Edinburgh, you go up to Aberdeen, down to London and through to Glasgow.
Simples!
Beezer says
‘Eeee, what a workyticket!’* never fails to befuddle
*My, what a pain in the arse he is
Uncle Wheaty says
cor hent that bin fun readin that stuff…Norfolk
Mike_H says
“Stood there like Piffy” = Feeling left out of things.
Attribution completely unknown, it would seem.
My late mum and dad both used to use this expression.
Sewer Robot says
Seems like a more polite version of “like a spare p***k at an orgy”, which in turn reminds me of my favourite term of abuse from youthful days, which I think is local – that fella is a p***k with ears…
Hawkfall says
I once used the word daft in conversation with an American friend and he didn’t know what it meant. I can’t recall hearing it in an American film or TV show.
Stephen G says
“How no?”
Means “why not” in Glasgow. Obviously.
Mike_H says
There’s a glossary of Glaswegian schoolyard terminology in the back of Christopher Brookmyre’s “A Tale Etched In Blood And Hard Black Pencil”. Most informative.
Black Celebration says
“I’m off to Shipley ferra sluddeh” – Bradford origin
translation – “where I am going is not your concern…”
nigelthebald says
“Sloightly on the huh” (Suffolk/Norfolk) – a little askew, not quite perpendicular.
“Hull” – to throw.
Milkybarnick says
One I like from my wife’s side of the family (from the north west):
“You make a better door than a window.”
Usually employed if you’re standing in front of the telly.
GCU Grey Area says
‘Do you live in a barn?’ or ‘Were you born in a barn?’
Trans: put wood in’t hole, please shut the door you have left open.
nigelthebald says
@Milkybarnick, my Mum (born and bred in the south) uses that one, and also “born in a barn”.
Milkybarnick says
Ah – excellent. I hadn’t heard it till I met my wife, so thought (wrongly!) it was more of a northern thing.
Black Celebration says
A great comeback I heard to “Born in a barn?”
“Yes…the name’s Christ”
Locust says
In Sweden we say “Your dad wasn’t a glazier” when someone’s blocking the view.
Sewer Robot says
You British types were probably dazzled as small kids by the exotic language on Sesame Street, where “grouches” lived in “trash cans” and monsters ate “cookies” while talking about a letter “zee”. Me too, but I was just as freaked out by Play School, where if you didn’t feel well you were “ill” or “poorly” and they all liked to be beside the “seaside” and there was an extra meal just for English children called “supper”.
To this day, I’ve yet to encounter a Hamble or a Jemimah…
Moose the Mooche says
“I’ve yet to encounter a Hamble”
hhhhhhhuuuuuurrrrrrrrr
GCU Grey Area says
I read somewhere that the presenters of Play School hated the Hamble doll, and used to kick it around the studio. How sad. Brian Cant? Brian C*nt more like.
GCU Grey Area says
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/GCU_Grey_Area/bluff-covfefe_zpssuowyflb.jpg
Colin H says
‘Tish, bosh, a-ha, o-ho, fiddle-de-dee, rumpity-tumpity, flibbertigibbety, would that it were, would that it were…’
Robinson Robinson was responsible for an entire subset of the English language himself.
Moose the Mooche says
Never trust a man with a combover.
GCU Grey Area says
Except for Nobby Stiles. Or Ralph Coates. Mmm? Possibly, don’t quote me on that. . .
Black Celebration says
Like footballers from the olden days, , he looks 60 but he’s probably 30.
hubert rawlinson says
One I learnt recently from a friend and previous poster.
Grannies walking sticks.
For when it is precipitating profusely.
GCU Grey Area says
‘Its stair-rods out there’.
Trans: il pleut Ă verse.
Milkybarnick says
For years I thought stair rods were the down poles on bannisters. When I found out what they actually were I think this phrase became even more meaningful. I wouldn’t want to be hit on the head by either, mind
Moose the Mooche says
Stair-rods were for people with carpets.
Y’know, the rich.
Baron Counterpane says
I came across that one on a poster (or perhaps a tea-towel) of old Welsh phrases. It’s stuck in my mind that “old lady” was “hen wragedd”.
bricameron says
“Get yer keks aff!”
Excuse me Miss, would you mind taking your pantaloons down this instant!
Moose the Mooche says
In Sweden there is a popular choccie bar called Keks. Cue poor-quality gags from Britishers such as “Oh no, I’ve dropped me Keks”
Kaisfatdad says
Here is a picture that really takes the biscuit: a man riding on his Kex.
Sewer Robot says
I particularly enjoy their ad with its use of music by Elvis Costello:
🎵 In chocolate town the inside of our Kex are brown 🎵
Fintinlimbim says
I have never heard a Scotsman say “Jings!” or “Crivens!”.
Apart from Oor Wullie.
Moose the Mooche says
You’ve heard Oor Wullie?
Help ma boab!
GCU Grey Area says
Or Terry Pratchett’s Nac Mac Feegle. Jings, Crivens, ye scunner, and indeed Oh, wailly, wailly, Miss Tiffany Aching.
Sniffity says
Or Middenface McNulty.
Junglejim says
Nice Johnny Alpha reference!