Musings on the byways of popular culture
29/03/2017 by BigJimBob 150 Comments
29/03/2017 at 09:03
😀😩😳 sigh well I tried….
29/03/2017 at 09:11
Donald Tusk responds:
29/03/2017 at 09:29
Why? What’s happened?
Moose the Mooche says
29/03/2017 at 09:33
Some crazy-ass chick wrote a letter on a snooker table to some Polish dude.
It’s, like, totally epic.
29/03/2017 at 09:49
Bob Dylan is sure catching the Zeitgeist with a 3-LP release of easy listening on Friday…the perfect accompaniment to this Golden Age of Fromage, Trump and Putin.
How truly blessed we are!
29/03/2017 at 11:05
Cheer up you lot!
We may well be headed for Brexit hell in a Union Jack-painted rickety handcart with squeaky wheels, but today is Piano Day!
Piano day is an idea from that fine fellow Nils Frahm, a celebration of the piano and the music made upon it. It’s held on the 88th day of the western calendar year. A day for each key on the piano keyboard. There are Piano Day events being held all over the place today.
29/03/2017 at 11:15
In future the 29th of March will be known as ‘Brexitmas’, people will celebrate by burning EU flags.
There will be a symbolic Turning Back of the Migrants at St Pancras as a token Polish electrician alights from an incoming Eurostar and is marched across the platform to the next departing train by Beefeaters wearing Nigel Farage and Michael Gove masks.
29/03/2017 at 12:37
Also, the state opening of Parliament is now going to include the annual ritual of NF trying and failing to get into the House of Commons.
Sour Crout says
29/03/2017 at 21:00
8th time lucky
Baskerville Old Face says
29/03/2017 at 15:27
I bet they will also try to revoke the Santa Clause…
29/03/2017 at 12:11
I’ve just bought the half-speed master vinyl of Abba’s ‘Arrival’ cheap from the dodgers. I now have two years to play it before the owning of Swedish ‘foreign muck’ is banned.
From 2019, all pop songs must be written about turnips and performed by Billy Bragg.
29/03/2017 at 12:35
Sainsburys are ahead of the curve here. Their French beer is brewed in Shcotlan.
Vulpes Vulpes says
29/03/2017 at 12:58
The negotiations will turn out to be an unholy cluster of epic proportions, many businesses will flounder along the way and ordinary families will pay for the utter incompetence of the Tories; as a consequence, the popular (clueless) voter will struggle to know who to elect in their place. Where’s Helena these days?
29/03/2017 at 13:16
It’s being so cheerful keeps you going I’m sure!
The negotiations will only be a clusterf*ck if the grown-ups in Europe aren’t in charge. There will be much sound and fury from the many disparate voices across Europe – including those who are minded to somehow ‘punish’ Britain. Hopefully, common sense will prevail and the ultimate agreement will preserve the most mutually beneficial aspects of our relationship.
The only way humanity ever achieved anything was by stepping into the unknown.
29/03/2017 at 14:04
“The only way humanity ever achieved anything was by stepping into the unknown.”
29/03/2017 at 14:24
yeah I’d say we’ve achieved more by joining the gaps between ‘known knowns’ than we have by jumping off cliffs without any idea where we’ll land. The people who went to the South Pole or the Moon stepped into the unknown, but they had an objective and a plan. What’s the objective here? More money to the NHS? Fewer migrant workers? And what’s the plan? Have our cake and eat it?
29/03/2017 at 14:28
Yeah, I’m struggling to think of a major moment in human history where progress wasn’t won as a result of increments.
This whole thing seems extraordinarily reckless. I have no idea what gains we’re supposed to be making by doing this, which aren’t expressed in wild abstracts (“sovereignty” / “control”).
David Kendal says
29/03/2017 at 16:31
As far as I can tell nothing is going to change – David Davis, Minister for Brexit, has said at various times that European immigration to the UK won’t stop, and may go up; and that we will pay large sums of money to the EU to be part of the single market. Others like Bernard Jenkin and Digby Jones have said that we will still abide by almost all of the European agreements.
So good news for those who voted remain. But all of the people I have mentioned were part of the leave campaign, and so clearly misled a lot of people who voted to leave and thought the UK was going to cut immigration, spend nothing on the EU and make its own regulations on everything.
There is going to be anger.
29/03/2017 at 17:54
Never mind, they can all look forward to “bringing back the death penalty, caning in schools and returning to traditional incandescent lightbulbs – as well as the reintroduction of dark blue passports and selling goods in pounds and ounces.” So that’s all right then.
Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/leave-voters-support-reintroduction-of-death-penalty-caning-and-traditional-incandescent-light-bulbs/
metal mickey says
29/03/2017 at 13:42
You’ll have to look hard for anyone as anti-Brexit as myself, but in all honesty, the Article 50 letter (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39431070) is actually quite sane and impressive – yes, platitudes abound, but it covers the key areas and reads rather well…
29/03/2017 at 15:08
..and the statement issued yesterday from the EU is also sane and impressive.
Both sides appear to want to make the best of this bad job. We can only hope they succeed and the idiots on both sides don’t fuck it up even more than it already is.
29/03/2017 at 13:53
I wrote the following a little while ago and it’s been sitting around while, from time to time, I wondered what to do with it.
As ever, “Other Opinions Are Available”.
Last week I ordered an item from an online retailer* for the second time in the last six months. When I placed the second order the price had gone up by 12.5% to £45.00. The increase is possibly / probably due to the pound’s fall in value. That fall was, in turn, probably / possibly due to the EU referendum result and the way Brexit seems to be going. (* Not the one you might expect.)
Ah. Brexit. I have come to suspect that a “Hard” exit is inevitable. If, somehow, a “Soft” exit deal is stitched together in an imensly challenging timescale the EU negotiators will have failed risibly if it is not fairly obvious that we would be better off staying in. The figureheads on our side don’t inspire me with any confidence about a negotiated “Soft” exit.
The starry-eyed, deranged fantasists who insist that a hard exit will be the gateway to a land of milk and honey seem to have a lot in common with that other group of starry-eyed, deranged fantasists who insist that some kind of socialist utopia can be achieved. The two differ only in their choices of impossible dreams to believe in. I find both utterly implausible.
In my darker moments I start to wonder if the more rabid hard-exit MPs and some of their associates (or paymasters) have worked out how to use modern financial instruments to make very large amounts of money from the consequences of a “hard” exit. One way or another that money would come from us, either directly via reduced circumstances or indirectly via the government we pay our taxes to (some more scrupulously than others) or both.
Coincidentally a view has emerged that the leadership of the Labour party (IE the “socialist utopia” faction) have adopted an utterly supine strategy towards a “Hard” exit in the hope that the consequences of the exit will be so bad that they will, eventually, become electable. How bad “so bad” might be doesn’t bare thinking about. If things to get “that bad” they might end up being elected to take responsibility economy that is damaged beyond repair. And the key figures involved would probably be happy with that.
Meanwhile the stomach-turning way that our current leaders have chosen to suck up the new regime in the USA tends to reinforce the idea that a “Hard” exit is to be expected and that they have a pretty good idea how desperate we will be after that.
As I understand it, it’s fairly well established that without immigration the UK would have a declining population. (My two siblings and I must take some small share of responsibility for this – my niece is my mother’s only grandchild.) A declining population would cause problems in the medium to long term and immigration appears to be the only option to address it. In the circumstances making the UK a less attractive place to come to find work and security seems foolish.
I accept that we’re not staying in. The only possibilities seem to be a rubbish “Soft” exit or a worse “Hard” exit. Hence “despondent”. But at least I’ve got these thoughts, such as they are, “off my chest”.
As you were.
29/03/2017 at 18:21
Let’s just start off by saying I was a staunch remain supporter to the extent that I had several heated arguments with colleagues and I was and remain very much in the minority of an office of 120. So to suggest that the populace doesn’t want this is a little fatuous.
Whilst decrying the vote it is clear that the end result is not going to be anywhere near as apocalyptic as the doomsayers and experts said it would be. I work in freight forwarding and I can tell you there is a big upsurge in exports as a result of a more competitive pound.
Inward investment doesn’t appear to be slowing down, unemployment continues to fall.
My reason for voting to remain was because I felt part of the European family. I would still like to feel that way but as in a divorce it takes two to reach an amicable agreement and remember there are a number of other EU members deeply unhappy with the dogmatic approach of the autocrats.
Oh and by the way Claude Juncker is a twat of the highest order.
29/03/2017 at 21:49
On the other hand is, if the Leave camp’s Economic guru Patrick Minford is to be believed, Brexit will hasten the demise of manufacturing in this country. At which point we will presumably still export something, but it may not constitute freight.
GCU Grey Area says
29/03/2017 at 15:02
Now we can do things our way.
1/ The return of Pounds and Ounces, and dodgy balancing scales.
2/ The return of free carrier bags to the nation’s hedgerows.
3/ Respect will be restored to your betters, and you will once again know your place. Your place will be determined by your betters, who will sit in constant judgment of you.
4/ So-called experts to be returned to their place, especially grammar experts who criticise green“grocers” comma,s and apostrophes’.
5/ A return to a good, solid British diet of over-cooked vegetables, burnt bits and lard, with no garlic or gratuitous salad garnish. All food to be served on round plates.
6/ All bicycles to possess no more than three Sturmey-Archer gears, mounted inside the rear hub.
7/ Coffee to be become undrinkable muck, even in Lyons Corner Houses. Coffee will be available only as white (with cold milk), or black. Black coffee will be viewed as suspiciously foreign during the next two year’s negotiations.
8/ Olive oil to regain its rightful place in the medicine cabinet, available only in small bottles from chemists, to be used to lubricate earwax.
9/ The return of lifeless rivers, and coastal waters filled with loo roll and jobbies.
10/ The return of ‘things for the weekend’ to their rightful place in the barbers, or chemists.
11/ The replacement of all toilet tissues by ‘Izal’ or ‘Bronco’.
12/ The doing-away with all this PC nonsense. Woman should be shown their place, by firmly pinching their bottoms, ignoring them, or cutting their housekeeping. Black, coloured and foreign people will be reassured of their place, by being referred to as d*rkies, P*kis or Jerries. Homosexuals, bisexuals and trans people will return to their place, where they didn’t have the rights as you did.
13/ Biros will only be available with green ink.
14/ All energy saving devices to be outlawed. Incandescent bulbs to replace LEDs and fluorescents.
15/ A return to four football divisions, with no foreign footballers or owners. Only dodgy English owners will be allowed. Footballers names will return to those such as Norman, Geoff, Ralph and Ken. Terraces will return, once again awash with piss, and inedible pies.
16/ The existing Royal Yacht to be returned to service, or a new one constructed. This will either bear the name ‘Brexitannia’ or Her Majesty’s (God Bless Her) Yacht ‘Fetchez Le Vache’. In either case, a trebuchet will be mounted on the bows, to fire dead cows across the Channel at the French.
17/ All craft beer and real ales to be put in their place, and replaced by Toby or similar keg beers.
18/ Clocks to go back to 1956 when the two years negotiation are up.
count jim moriarty says
29/03/2017 at 15:07
You are Peter Hitchins and I claim my £5.
Leicester Bangs says
29/03/2017 at 15:09
Up! Great post!
29/03/2017 at 15:30
29/03/2017 at 15:49
A good point.
19/ Hybrid and electric cars to be outlawed and replaced by the reintroduction of the Ford Popular and the Invacar. No electric vehicles permitted on our roads except milk floats.
20/ Disabled people to be kept out of sight and out of mind. “Loonies” to be locked up.
Rigid Digit says
29/03/2017 at 15:51
The return of rickets and pleurisy
Tobacco advertising to be in newspapers, television and to support major sporting events
29/03/2017 at 15:56
on the plus side, this should also result in an end to the notion of “Cafe Culture” where by coffee shops and restaurants place table on the already crowded pavements in the hope that people will eat and drink outside on more than the 3 days per year when this is actually possible to do so.
29/03/2017 at 17:25
I certainly love eating between tightly parked cars and dogshit.
30/03/2017 at 09:16
Bring back straight bananas and crooked cucumbers!
Dodger Lane says
29/03/2017 at 17:24
Brilliant, although I would add a return to 4 proper seasons of weather; cold and wet, slightly less cold & wet, warm and wet and slightly less warm & wet. No interference now from foreign weather systems, they will know now not to mess with us.
Actually, I’m quite looking forward to a return to point 15).
29/03/2017 at 17:50
23/ The removal of Formula One from its current eco-nanny-state safety-conscious mimsyness, by bringing back extremely loud and powerful engines, minimal bodywork, huge tyres and a shorter life expectancy for the driver than a pilot in Captain Flashheart’s ‘Twenty Minuters’.
24/ Darts and snooker players to return to smeuurrking tabs.
25/ The return of porn to the hedgerows, where it belongs, with the litter and carrier bags.
29/03/2017 at 18:04
15) a) at the back of the terraces, Bovril to be served in paper cups for sixpence at half-time from small concrete huts that also dispense the unidentifiable pies. Bovril to be so hot it gives you gum blisters behind your front teeth.
26) No New Pence anywhere. Ten bob notes for birthdays. A half crown to be enough to get you a pint. Of keg, naturally.
hubert rawlinson says
29/03/2017 at 20:47
Ten bob notes, bring back groats I say.
30/03/2017 at 09:08
Whither the dinari?
03/04/2017 at 19:31
Gone. Along with those bloody Roman asylum seekers.
30/03/2017 at 14:06
15b) Bovril to be accompanied at all times by Tudor Cheese & Onion crisps and proper sized Wagon Wheels.
31/03/2017 at 00:39
I used to like Tudor crisps. I heard that in the end they ran out of flavours and Golden Wonder crisps from Scotland took over.
31/03/2017 at 16:37
IIRC, Tudor was taken over by Golden Wonder and the brand shuffled off its mortal coil.
Sewer Robot says
29/03/2017 at 19:03
Alas, there’s little prospect of a return to the weather Dodger craves now that cousin Donnie is sending ‘t lads back down ‘t pit and all the shredded climate research up ‘t chimney…
29/03/2017 at 17:40
You aren’t that far off:
Capitol punishment and incandescent light bulbs are high on the wish list.
30/03/2017 at 07:50
I’m deffo in favour of Capitol punishment. Let’s see Donald swing!
29/03/2017 at 16:13
I don’t fancy our chances in the Eurovision Song Contest.
29/03/2017 at 16:16
I was hoping we could make not competing a condition of Brexit.
29/03/2017 at 20:38
Doubt it. See: Australia.
29/03/2017 at 16:52
Europe has been using Eurovision to tell us that they absolutely despise us for the last 15 years.
Turns out we’ve taken it somewhat to heart.
29/03/2017 at 18:33
We can sing the Millwall song; ‘No-one likes us, we don’t care’.
I do though.
Black Celebration says
29/03/2017 at 17:48
Well the negotiations are going great so far :
“I have listened carefully to you, to my fellow EU Heads of Government and the Presidents of the European Commission and Parliament. That is why the United Kingdom does not seek membership of the single market: we understand and respect your position that the four freedoms of the single market are indivisible and there can be no “cherry picking”. We also understand that there will be consequences for the UK of leaving the EU: ”
The UK must have made tentative enquiries about some form of single market participation and been sent away with nothing.
29/03/2017 at 18:28
A good time to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this being Number 1:
29/03/2017 at 19:31
That mediocre, derivative cover kept this off No 1
29/03/2017 at 19:40
Never mind, fast forward to this week in 1975 instead!
29/03/2017 at 19:45
Oh don’t bring IndyRef2 into this…
29/03/2017 at 20:14
29/03/2017 at 20:28
A Scotref? Whoooze the bastart in the blaack?
29/03/2017 at 20:37
Don’t worry about him. He’ll reverse the penalty in a minute.
29/03/2017 at 20:43
Help ma boab…
29/03/2017 at 20:53
Well jings crivens!
Wilson Wilson says
30/03/2017 at 07:02
Lando Cakes says
30/03/2017 at 20:59
29/03/2017 at 21:54
Nevermind, at least it is all a distraction that enables each and every one of us, Brexit fan or foe, to ignore the decidedly tricky things that actually matter in terms of future prosperity and wellbeing. We can kick the cans of poor productivity, trade deficits, lamentable leadership and other skills, patchy education etc well down the road. In the meantime time we can toast the return of imperial measures or bemoan the threats to pet passports to our hearts content.
30/03/2017 at 06:28
Can we bring back Spangles now? Particularly the Old English ones in the black packet.
30/03/2017 at 11:43
Opal fruits and marathon bars, mmmmmm
30/03/2017 at 09:48
I was promised sunshine every day, it’s raining now. That’s not what I voted for.
30/03/2017 at 12:21
And where’s my unicorn?
30/03/2017 at 13:29
Scorching hot here. Surely a taste of things to come. Time for some D:Ream perhaps.
30/03/2017 at 17:23
now that we are unshackled from Europe maybe we can be towed to the Tropics?
30/03/2017 at 17:43
You sayin’ your hemisphere wants to get with my hemisphere?!
31/03/2017 at 02:15
@sewer robot. 😂
30/03/2017 at 18:37
Lots of opinions about Brexit here in NZ. The UK joining the Common Market really hurt New Zealand and, presumably Australia too.
Arthur Cowslip says
30/03/2017 at 20:57
Excuse my ignorance. What do you mean? How did it affect New Zealand and Australia?
31/03/2017 at 01:35
I think it was mainly in terms of agricultural products and meat. With the UK having preferential terms with Europe, NZ produce couldn’t compete. Older New Zealanders say that they felt the UK basically ditched them when this happened – despite the special relationship via the Commonwealth, allies in the two world wars, that kind of thing.
For some further context, pre WWII, the first NZ Labour Government had been critical of British government’s tolerance (or appeasement) of German, Italian and Japanese military expansion. However, Primeminister Michael Joseph Savage issued a declaration of War, only a few hours after the UK, saying:
“With gratitude for the past and confidence in the future we range ourselves without fear beside Britain. Where she goes, we go; where she stands, we stand…”
There remains a historical affection and link to Britain, but the move to the Common Market affected that notion of unconditional loyalty that Savage’s words express. It can be argued that it was, on reflection, good for New Zealand – because it forced upon them the necessity to trade more closely with Asian countries.
31/03/2017 at 05:03
Same for Oz. The government is maintaining a dignified silence fttb, as far as I can see, but comments under news stories tend to run along Fuck those drongos lines, and sometimes Gallipoli is mentioned. There doesn’t seem to be any great appetite for helping dig UK out of its hole, anyway.
31/03/2017 at 05:32
What are the French public going to do? That’s really the question right now.
31/03/2017 at 07:58
Basically, that scene from Monty Python And The Holy Grail.
The French will be up on the castle battlements, blowing raspberries at us.
‘Go away, stupid English persons, or we shall taunt you for a second time’.
‘Fetchez la vache. . .’
31/03/2017 at 19:14
Some NZ politicians see it as a trading opportunity. The company behind all the milk and Anchor butter, Fonterra, is absolutely huge – I mean really massive. Dairy products are churned out (ha!) by clinically efficient farms and factories. Not sure the lucky cows in Anchor TV ads of the 80s have time to play football these days -too busy meeting production KPIs.
31/03/2017 at 19:28
Not saying I blame ’em, but Oz and NZ really hate us, don’t they? A few years ago I had cause to watch one of the big daily NZ news programmes and it seemed to have a very strange news agenda.
Item 1 – Something goes wrong in England, hahahahahahaaaa!!!
Item 2 – Something goes wrong in England, hahahahahahaaaa!!!
Item 3 – Something goes wrong in England, hahahahahahaaaa!!!
Item 4 – Something goes wrong in England, hahahahahahaaaa!!!
Item 5 – Something goes wrong in England, hahahahahahaaaa!!!
Item 6 – Earthquake in Auckland kills ten thousand people, now here’s Jenny* with the weather (*pronounced Jinny)
I mean…. very odd. That pronunciation.
31/03/2017 at 20:00
If you go to a haberdashery shop that is also a stationery outlet, and ask for a pin – all bets are off – are you going to get a pen or a pin? There’s no way of knowing. It’s highly stressful.
31/03/2017 at 20:16
They don’t really hate us btw, but I had a weird experience a couple of weeks ago. I was in a quiz team as part of fundraiser for a local football team. A refreshed local gentleman joins our table, notes my accent and assumes I am South African. I put him right on that one, he mumbles, and rounds on a friend of mine – “I am wondering where all the Kiwis have gone…” and asks my friend where his family is from. He thinks about it, admits he is from immigrant stock, and says that his family only goes back about 200 years.
Drunk bloke gets cross, mumbles about all the foreigners taking over his country and moves off like the the tosser he is. Later, he plonks next to me again – uninvited. He asks me where exactly I am from in England. He tells me he was born in Liverpool and moved to NZ when he was 14. And that I’m a good bloke and would I like a drink? “That’ll be a no”, I said.
01/04/2017 at 06:31
A couple of years ago, on a plane from NZ, I distinctly heard the pilot say, ‘Good morning from the flight dick.’
Scrimbled iggs is another favourite.
02/04/2017 at 17:13
It’s a fact that the NZ alphabet has only 22 letters and one vowel. A,E,O and U are never used.
31/03/2017 at 07:20
I never understood why we buy NZ lamb anyway. Welsh lamb is right here and – IMO – better.
Dave Amitri says
01/04/2017 at 08:53
Finally @Friar gets Brexit 🙂
01/04/2017 at 08:59
01/04/2017 at 09:44
Just coming back to this because while I realise you’re joking I don’t get it.
01/04/2017 at 10:02
It was a glib poorly thought out comment. The only basis I can justify it is “Buy British” which I truly hope is a positive outcome from Brexit. Our lamb is the best and we should sell it to the whole world, we’ve got lots of fields and can sell all the British lamb people want. I understand this has no direct relevance with Brexit, especially whether we buy NZ lamb or not.
On a broader note I am tired of the negativity and wish we could all man up a bit accept it and do our upmost to make it work . I fear some peoples desperation to see it all blow up outweighs their desire to find some way of making it a success. Naïve and unlikely but let’s not give up before we’ve even started
01/04/2017 at 10:24
Thing is, 48% voted to stay. That’s too big a number to back down, en masse, and say ” fair enough”.
01/04/2017 at 10:52
It’s not “negativity”. It’s legitimate fear and concern because the government give every impression of not having the foggiest what they’re doing, and no Leave campaigner or voter has yet managed to tell me what is going to be better once we’ve left.
01/04/2017 at 11:05
30 years of bureaucracy to untangle with any kind of coherent strategy would surely be beyond the realms of Einstein and he was pretty intelligent. I take your point of course but to claim the government don’t have the foggiest idea what they’re doing is not very intelligent. They’ve been dealt a hand, the trickiest hand since the 1940’s and despite the rulings, the Lords and Tony Blair it’s going to happen. The negotiations begin now and Theresa May has to play that hand as best she can. She has no option but to talk positively, to try and engage business and the rest of us in a better future, what else can she do? the tangled ball of string she has inherited will reveal itself over the next 2 years and we really have no option until the next general election but to back her and her cronies. I genuinely can’t think of anyone currently active in politics I would rather have at the helm of this incredibly complex and uncertain time. The rest of us need to take a leaf out of her book and knuckle down and do our best to make it work. If that means we just “Leave” with no deals the so be it. It makes us fairly unique in the world and we need to send vibes out to the rest of the world that this is a good thing that we have things to sell, we want to buy and look beyond Europe if they want to be difficult. Better? I don’t pretend to know the answer but I am prepared to have faith that we need to give it a go. How long before individual countries look to Britain and decide we’re a good bet to work with outside the EU depends on Theresa May and her ability to present a united front. I don’t envy her at all
01/04/2017 at 16:04
Hang on a sec. You’re writing this like somehow Brexiteers have just been handed a crap hand of cards not of their making.
To be clear: They asked for it. They – by a narrow margin – got it. Now THEY have to MTFU and do their jobs. Is it difficult? Yep. Challenging? Yep.
Do they get any sympathy? Nope. You broke it, you buy it. Do they get any leeway? Nope. See earlier answer.
01/04/2017 at 20:15
@Sitheref2409 – multiple ups. Notional concepts of ‘sovereignty’ and ‘taking back control’ in a world where Myanmar and North Korea lead the way in how great that is as a path to economic security.
Leaving the EU was the wrong answer to the wrong question on one June day after charlatans lied to the public.
Don’t expect to wait long to see May follow through on her promise to abandon adherence to international human rights standards as well as abandon EU regulations on workers’ rights in pursuit of attracting businesses to the UK, abandon food standards in pursuit of trade deals with the US, open up the NHS to international investment, lower environmental standards as the countryside is earmarked for fracking.
However, if you for some reason you voted leave to limit immigration, don’t hold your breath given her outstanding record as Home Secretary in that regard.
31/03/2017 at 05:34
01/04/2017 at 05:01
Here’s what I wish that people would do. Accept a result and shut the fuck up about how you didn’t win.
01/04/2017 at 06:32
Only a massive citizen of Vancouver would say that.
01/04/2017 at 06:34
Good morning Australia. How are you today?
01/04/2017 at 06:37
Yes, that’s definitely how democracy works. 🙄
01/04/2017 at 06:43
01/04/2017 at 06:45
Losing a vote doesn’t mean you have to be quiet about the issue forever. That’s not how it works.
01/04/2017 at 07:09
Nobody is saying that you can’t have a voice but at what point are you willing to agree?
01/04/2017 at 07:12
“Accept a result and shut the fuck up” sounds quite a lot like not having a voice.
Why should the nearly 50% of the population who don’t want this to happen “agree” with what’s happening?
01/04/2017 at 07:16
Well,I dunno? Majority rule?
01/04/2017 at 08:52
I’m quite sure that if the leave campaign had lost they would have accepted the result and would have not complained once. TIC.
01/04/2017 at 07:40
01/04/2017 at 12:09
As a remainer I actually agree with @bricameron – we should just shut the fuck up and get on with it. The level of whingeing, bed wetting and general despondency is acutely embarrassing. We are better than that – we chose to live in a democracy and a democratic process put us on our current course to leave the EU. Its a little bit rich to argue that we want democracy but not this kind of democracy.
01/04/2017 at 15:37
BUT THEY WROTE ON A BUS!
01/04/2017 at 15:49
Fuck it. I had a whole long post about why I think that’s so wrong but what the hell’s the point?
01/04/2017 at 16:02
Does that mean you’re getting ready to move on from the denial stage yet?
01/04/2017 at 16:29
I know it’s happening. I’ve never been in denial about that. I don’t see why it’s so important to Brexiteers – who, let’s not forget, are the rugged non-snowflake bravely un-PC warrior half of the population – that the rest of us be quiet about its enactment.
01/04/2017 at 16:41
C’mon you guys! The hand’s been dealt.
01/04/2017 at 16:44
With respect, Bri, you are maybe not quite up to speed with how much is still to play for, not living here. Our govt is about to enter into the most important set of negotiations in living memory. The deal is nowhere close to done. And those of us who don’t want it to be quite the calamity we fear have a duty to be bloody noisy about it. And if that annoys or inconveniences anyone, frankly, I couldn’t give a microfuck.
01/04/2017 at 16:47
You keep saying that nobody has yet explained to you why people are seeking to leave. That’s about as in denial as it gets. The time for that line might have been before June last year. Not that it’s anyone else’s job to explain something to you. If, as you say, you have some sort of intellectual imperative, surely you could use it to try and understand the other side of the argument yourself.
A good parallel is Wales, where those in favour of devolution won by the narrowest of margins. Those against – like me – argued that it would be an expensive talking shop and so it has proved. But 9 months after losing, i wasn’t going around saying “nobody has yet explained to me why we need a Welsh assembly”. This site seems to be a little safe space for those who refuse to come to terms with the result to slag off and caricature their opponents, showing zero understanding of the very real issues that people voted for. I guess it must be comforting to tarnish half the country as small minded racists, but it just comes across as lofty, sneering bigotry.
01/04/2017 at 17:00
I’m literally asking, though: what about the EU has made 52% of the people’s lives so unbearable that they want to take a gamble of this magnitude?
I get the immigration part. I get the not liking the establishment part. I get the appeal of Farage, I get the appeal – god help me – of Boris. I understand why people voted to leave.
What I don’t understand is what any of those things have to do with the EU and why you think life will be better outside it.
When we get onto the actual subject of the EU, I simply don’t believe anyone (at least not large numbers of anyone) was voting against labyrinthine bureaucracy, or any constitutional principles. Because nobody’s yet said “those things are making our society concretely worse in the following ways (insert ways) and this is how it’ll look better after we leave”. You’ve already taken the piss out of people for raising the NHS bus thing, as if the subsequent dodging of the idea that EU money might be repatriated for our public services is somehow just all in the game. People voted for that idea, regardless of the bus. Why are we just laughing that one off? Explain it to a poor SJW beta cuck.
You’re saying it’s arrogant of me, or high-handed, or something, to ask for an explanation that makes sense because I should just *know*? Those are the reasons I’ve heard offered. They make no sense to me. None of them show how the UK will be improved by leaving.
Is there a special extra reason that’s the real killer one, and that Leave or the government aren’t mentioning? What have I missed?
By the way, I haven’t yet seen where I’ve sneered or called anyone a racist. Let’s not straw man each other.
01/04/2017 at 17:07
That ship has sailed Friar. It’s no longer remotely relevant why people voted the way they did. That was last year. If the newspapers or other media you read have not contained articles and stories explaining Brexit from a Brexiteer perspective, then maybe you might think about trying some other source -there have been plenty such pieces in the Speccie and Telegraph, alongside passionately argued Remainer perspectives. I’ve given my perspective a few times here, but if it didn’t persuade you, then that’s up to you. To me it seems as clear cut as the American Declaration of Independence or the rejection of the Soviet Union, but there are plenty of other views.
01/04/2017 at 17:16
1) You think the reasons for people’s votes will be irrelevant if the PM returns from these negotiations with a deal that retains – say – freedom of movement? Of course they’re relevant, because they surely have to inform the direction of the talks. The will of the people!
Our lot are supposed to be fighting for the best interests of the UK, but what if they decide that those best interests are best served by a Brexit that doesn’t look like the one Paul Dacre has in mind? A high-immigration Brexit? A paying into the single market Brexit?
2) The British in the colonial USA were rapacious imperialist plunderers. The Soviet Union were one of the most murderous and oppressive regimes ever seen on earth. The idea that the EU compares in your mind to either one strikes me as… surprising. Given that the EU is neither one of those, unless we’re prepared to give in to hysterical exaggeration, the “freedom” / “control” thing just strikes me as really, really abstract. That’s why I keep saying I don’t know what’s supposed to be concretely BETTER about Brexit Britain. What, in people’s daily lives, will be improved by it?
Don’t worry, it’s a rhetorical question. But that’s the one that I haven’t seen answered.
Bingo Little says
Remind me which “side” is being told to shut the fuck up here, B?
There are numerous calls on this thread for the entire country to be turned into a giant echo chamber. Debate is healthy, consensus is where thought goes to die. Enforced consensus can do one.
01/04/2017 at 17:10
Debate is fine BL, but surely even you blanche at the level of bigotry towards people who voted remain on this site. That’s not debate, it’s sneering, uninformed snobbery.
01/04/2017 at 17:22
I think people should show each other a bit of respect. That starts with respectingthe other guy’s right to even hold/express a different view.
I don’t think shutting down debate will do anything for the benefit of the country.
On that note, I’m out. On holiday at the minute, this isn’t a sensible use of time!
01/04/2017 at 17:24
Man, you won. You’re getting everything your own way. The Left in this country is a cowering beaten mess. We’re getting the hardest of hard Brexits, by the looks of things. I suspect the government will use it as a way of destroying every sacred cow of the post-war social and political consensus, because they want to and now they might be able to sell it in the absence of any meaningful parliamentary opposition. I think we’re about to see Britain – or probably more accurately England and Wales – transformed into a low-tax libertarian-conservative small-government society the likes of which Gingrich has only wanked about.
Why do you care what the whipped losers are saying?
01/04/2017 at 17:47
That’s a comment I can understand and appreciate. Gotta watch a movie with my kids, but I’ll come back later if I may. I sort of understand more where you’re coming from as almost all political votes went the wrong way from my perspective for most of my adult life – with very predictable consequences. Later buddy!
01/04/2017 at 18:07
I know I don’t have to say this to you, but for the benefit of spectators, I always enjoy debating with you. I get passionate but it’s never personal. 🙂
Have a good evening!
01/04/2017 at 20:57
Now then, where was I…
I said that I thought I understood more where you were coming from. That it seems we may now go to hell in a handcart down some sort of Libertarian free-for-all model and the devil take the hindmost.
It would be nice to think that the political establishment had the intellectual rigour to try a different model than tax and spend, but I see zero evidence of it. The modern chancellor usually follows the Brownian tinkering model and almost nobody who is anywhere near the centre of the current political establishment has the guts to take on the various vested interests behind the large institutions or spending ministries.
With so much spending protected (pensions, schools, health, overseas aid) and foolish promises made over taxes, the government is hemmed in with little appetite for radicalism. T May is dead set against what she regards as an unnecessary election, one which might deliver her a decent majority and as such, we are likely to struggle on with fudge, compromise and putting hard decisions off to future generations.
I can’t agree on this ‘hardest’ Brexit idea. As Juncker himself has said, there is Brexit or no Brexit. If we want an end to freedom of movement – something that has consistently been an hugely underestimated, one way flow, then we cannot be part of the Single Market. Had Cameron emerged from his ‘negotiation’ with Brussels with an answer to the issue of uncontrolled immigration, I’m pretty certain he’d have won the referendum. There are vanishingly few people who are against actual immigration, despite what the left wing caricatures. It’s merely some means of control that considers the nation’s needs and abilities to integrate and provide for new arrivals that most people want to see. The EU chose to put its fingers in its ears – as usual – and John Bull voted accordingly.
Why do I care what the ‘losers’ think or say? Because it’s distressing to see so little understanding. We on the Brexit side are all too aware of the Remainer arguments and positions. It’s been the default position of the establishment for years and it’s been articulated comprehensively on our broadcast media and through our institutions. But there is so little reporting of the problems that have led to the Brexit vote in certain papers and on the broadcast media that there seems a huge disconnect and remainers sincerely seem to believe that brexiteers can only be racist, small-minded, seeking to turn back the clock to a mythical Little Britain that no longer exists, when this really doesn’t do justice at all to one’s fellow countrymen.
We on the right are used to being traduced – it’s been going on ever since I can remember, with the BBC coverage of Thatcher and Reagan making no attempt to explain or understand the economics or politics involved. Whole swathes of the country sincerely believe the most foolish and baseless nonsense about Tories. If, like me, you passionately believed that the Euro was a giant mistake or that the Human Rights act was an act of folly or that a vote on the Lisbon Treaty had been promised by the government or that just maybe Obama’s actual record was more worthy of study than the colour of his skin, then you were dismissed as a Little Englander or otherwise mad. The BBC’s nauseatingly giddy coverage of both Blair and Obama taking office, compared to its coverage of any Tory or Republican victory – or the Brexit vote itself, which the BBC seems still to be mourning – we’re left in no doubt that we’re on the side of the baddies.
It’s just a huge shame. By and large, politicians and people on both side of the political divide want the same outcomes and opportunities. We largely disagree on the worth of institutions, the value of the nation state and man’s frailties and susceptibility to perverse incentives. It’s a shame we can’t see the humanity in all of us and have to constantly paint the opposition in such bigoted, wilfully wrong colours.
01/04/2017 at 21:21
Hey Bart. I can see you are a thinker on this, but your personal opinions are not the same as what polling finds. You say:
There are vanishingly few people who are against actual immigration, despite what the left wing caricatures.
This is what Lord Ashcroft polls found:
01/04/2017 at 21:41
With respect BJB, that poll does not allow for any nuance between controlled and uncontrolled immigration. Polling in 2014 showed that 78% of respondents wanted to reduce immigration to the 10s of thousands from the hundreds of thousands. 59% of people polled in late 2016 supported an ‘Australian points-style’ system of controlled immigration, the same sort of points system that controls immigration to Canada and a host of other nations.
02/04/2017 at 09:26
Bart, you initially said that “there was vanishingly few people who are against actual immigration.” Now you show that 78% of people want to reduce immigration. This isn’t point scoring. It is just that I do think this issue was one of the main drivers of the no vote.
Anyway, the Australian/Canada option was brought up quite a bit the referendum, particular by Nigel Farage. However if the UK want to reduce immigration that may not be the way forward as, per capita, immigration rates in Australia are higher than those of the UK.
Anyway we could probably drop rates to “10s of thousands” tomorrow if we wanted. Over half of our net immigration is from non-EU countries, so freedom of movement does not apply to this group. Within international law, we can do what we like there. As to the EU group, if a potential immigrant does not have a job here already we can reject their entry. That is part of EU law. If people are coming in without jobs that is the government choice.
01/04/2017 at 17:01
People should say what they actually think about the direction of the nation. Seems mind bending that this notion needs stating out loud.
Theresa May is quite correct to try to paint Brexit as a massive opportunity/success. That’s her job. None of us has the same excuse for bullshitting: if Brexit fails it won’t be because the British public failed to believe hard enough.
Everything up to now has been the phony war. We’re now rapidly approaching the moment of truth: actual negotiations with our European brethren, conducted in private, between adults who don’t give a shit about your fantasy vision of Britain, your encyclopaedic knowledge of the Bond movies or your bus slogans. Experts, in other words.
I hope to god that May and team enjoy nothing but enormous success. All of our futures depend on them. I still don’t really see how we’ve put ourselves in a great position to achieve said success. I reckon I’ll keep saying so out loud as much as I like, and no amount of cry-babying or misunderstanding Democracy will change that. And if you don’t like it, I invite you to put on your best happy Brexit face, carefully adjust your red, white and blue tinted spectacles and (ever so politely) go fuck yourself.
Love and kisses
01/04/2017 at 23:16
@bartleby – you have an issue with the Human Rights legislation? On what grounds?
01/04/2017 at 23:24
None that will convince you no doubt, but they tend to centre around a disdain for activism in the judicial system, breaches of democracy and sovereignty like votes for prisoners, their abuse by scumbags like Abu Qatada, rendering deportation of people the UK regards as undesirable extremely difficult, that sort of thing.
02/04/2017 at 16:40
Liberty – yes, I know – have a slightly different view of that:
02/04/2017 at 09:41
None of us has the same excuse for bullshitting: if Brexit fails it won’t be because the British public failed to believe hard enough.
Ah yes, this phenomenon has been dubbed the Tinkerbell Theory by the journalist John Elledge. If we don’t believe in Brexit Nirvana/Corbyn as Prime Minster/Scots independence the dream will die.
See here, It is an amusing read:
01/04/2017 at 07:14
It’s probably too early in the morning for you and too late in the evening for me.
01/04/2017 at 07:39
01/04/2017 at 09:08
Who’s won? And what have they won? “Brexit” is a massive pile of bullshit dressed up as democracy. A Tory party non-issue that was flogged to us by lying, self-serving wankshafts who should’ve sorted it out amongst themselves instead of leading our country into the unknown. And for what?
01/04/2017 at 15:30
Andielou gets the ribbon!
01/04/2017 at 19:52
It is not over. The people who are now in charge of Brexit spent 30 – 40 years complaining about the first referendum. And now they want me to change my opinion over 7 months and become a Stepford Brit to salve their insecurity? It is projection: if they were so certain we were going in the right direction, they wouldn’t care what I thought. If Brexiteers think a late middle aged bloke on an obscure blog expressing his opinion is gonna affect the Path of History, then that path is not well lit is it?
At the moment, in Day 4 post-A50, we have Pound Sterling drifting to equivalence with the Euro, banks and insurance companies moving headquarters elsewhere, car companies blackmailing the government for sweetheart deals, and the fate of Gibraltar, Scotland, and N Ireland within the UK up for debate. 12 months ago, none of this was on the agenda. But bendy bananas, eh?
Still I am sure it will all get better when we actually leave because there will be £350M a week for the NHS. Oh wait Boris, Mike,IDS, and Chris G all voted down Chukka Umuna’s attempt to put that in as a clause in A50. Still we can bring back incandescent light bulbs now
01/04/2017 at 22:25
If Liverpool beat Everton on penalties in the FA Cup final after a thrilling 3-3 draw, is Everton FC expected to shut down as a going concern? Will Everton fans collectively shrug and put their weight behind Liverpool from that point onwards? Of course not – Everton live to fight another day. Even if the result was 10-0, the same behaviour would be evident.
Everything about British life is adversarial, the plaintiff and the accused, the Goverment and the Opposition, Liverpool and Everton. The Brexit vote has divided the nation almost exactly down the middle in yet another way. It wasn’t really there before. I agree that the right is seeing an opportunity here to walk unimpeded into territories that were out of bounds before. “We need to have a grown up, adult conversation about the future of NHS funding” . I have been hearing this a bit recently.
I’m not sure the analogy quite works. In this case, Liverpool have beaten Everton and 9 months later, Everton still seem to be asking why and trashing Liverpool as gullible, small minded simpletons into the bargain.
Nobody objects to people still believing they were right, but at what point do you accept that the vote went the other way and start hoping and cheering for the best result? Actually in football terms, i guess the answer is never, right?
01/04/2017 at 23:40
“trashing Liverpool as gullible, small minded simpletons” sounds exactly like Everton to me. Football rivalries make the Brexit schism look like a good-tempered game of cribbage.
01/04/2017 at 23:45
That’s right. With the nation so divided by the issue, one should not expect passive acceptance from the 48% that didn’t want it to happen. That’s too big a number.
And even if they did, what effect would that have? All of these things are happening anyway.
01/04/2017 at 23:58
If it was just a football match, then there would be many opportunities for the sides to replay, having improved their defence/attack. As I understand it, BCs analogy would be that the FA decided before the game that whoever lost the match might have to consider winding up the club for ever. Once the match was played, that advice was determined to be mandatory.
Not that I know anything about football, but hey… How about this analogy? The FA holds a ballot to withdraw from the Champions League. Everyone in the country gets to vote, including those like me who don’t care about the glorious game at all. We get told the money saved will be spent on Olympics training (probably, cross fingers behind back). We get reminded about the footballing elites with their astronomical incomes. There’s a narrow margin but we pull out. There’s no money saved, those who don’t enjoy football see no difference in their lives and those who do, miss out from seeing their teams shining on the European stage. Result!
MC Escher says
02/04/2017 at 06:12
That’s not really true though: we are pretty much the same as humans everywhere in that we have a tendency to choose a side and find it very difficult to change our side later. The EU thing has always been there and was always divisive, it has just been dragged into the spotlight and made starkly concrete by the vote.
02/04/2017 at 09:04
Though T May appears to have been able to change sides with remarkable ease having campaigned for remain and now heading us to leave.
02/04/2017 at 18:55
She campaigned for Remain. She was elected leader of her party. Her party is in power and have to go with the referendum result. What do you suggest she does?
02/04/2017 at 13:36
It does strike me as many have said before this seems to split opinion like nothing else. You don’t hear many people say they’re not sure, we’re all certain. Talk is cheap though and however we got here, here we are. More cliché on its way…… Only time will tell but let’s hope that it doesn’t break us all, that we have a future and that it all comes out in the wash in the end. In the meantime the next 2 years will give us plenty of opportunity to stand in our virtual room trying to shout louder than the bloke next to us. At least we have our music…..
02/04/2017 at 23:29
It appears that our brilliant future now includes blue passports under an eye-watering £490m contract for redesign and production – we’ve all been ‘humiliated’ by having to carry a maroon one, according to Eurosceptic Tory MP Andrew Rosindell. Speaking for myself, I have borne this unspeakable insult with equanimity, but there you go.
Oh, and war with Spain.
03/04/2017 at 07:03
Rosindell actually said the EU passport was “pink.” I think he is insinuating it is a gay passport. “We spend £350M on the EU, let’s spend it, and more, on passports” hasn’t got the same ring has it? BTW, I still have my old “Her Majesty’s Subject” passport, it is black.
03/04/2017 at 07:43
Mine was very dark blue, but they got darker with age I think.
Rosindell also things the return of capital punishment would be a good idea.
03/04/2017 at 19:04
Oh for goodness sake. They won’t be happy until they’re sending children back up chimneys. Over to Julian Cope:
04/04/2017 at 02:12
I lived in Gibraltar from 1969 to 1971.
It was very glamorous then what with no war and an officers mess budget that the Apple offices at the time would have been agape at. Happy days.
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