As a child of the seventies the DC5 have hardly entered my musical consciousness – except of course Bits and Pieces, Catch Us If You Can and Glad All Over – and apparently many other singles. I watched the quite-frankly gob-stopping BBC4 doc broadcast last weekend. Jaw dropping in its hagiography – which was fairly engaging while we were in the sixties and on the Ed Sullivan Show, completely risible when spending 30 minutes discussing Time: the Musical as if it were the natural successor to West Side Story (only with an important message for humanity thrown in). Bruce, Stevie, Paul – all of the contributors were First Name Only Needed people, and if they didn’t quite look as traumatised as Johnny Depp in that Australian borders video, looked as if they had been heavily leant on by the producer (ah – who is it? One DC) to position the DC5 as at the right hand of the Beatles. We also very much enjoyed Tom Hanks giving a three-hankie performance on their induction into the rock and roll Hall of Fame.
So…5 mins on Wikipedia reveals that DC controlled the master tapes for their music only leasing them to the labels. So now that appears to mean no DC5 on Spotify, nothing that is not imported can be bought on CD…I think one compilation on itunes.
By the by, the Wikipedia pages on band and DC are hilarious – ‘ DC owns a twelve million pound house in West London’ ‘Dave Clark became a popular name for babies in the sixties’ well only if your surname was already Clark presumably. And David is hardly unknown in the baby naming stakes.
Can some sixties experts – yes paging @deramdaze – cast some light on why this state of affairs has come to be. Apparently they sold ‘100 million records’ , toured the world incessantly, made a beat movie directed by John Boorman and appeared on Ed Sullivan more often than the Beatles, but try and buy their music now….
moseleymoles says
The clips from the John Boorman-directed movie of this name were great – and presumably DC does not own the rights to the film as it’s available for mail order…
Vince Black says
It’s funny the little things you find you can remember. I distinctly remember listening to wonderful Radio One’s Round Table when a record was introduced as being by Dave Clark & Friends. One of the DJ panel, I think perhaps Diddy “David Clark” Hamilton said “Really? I didn’t think Dave Clark had any friends”
Fintinlimbim says
Dave Clark obviously has a very shrewd business head on his shoulders but as a band the DC5 never amounted to much. Had a few hits in the 60s and did well in the US riding on the coat tails of the Beatles. But so did Hermans Hermits, for Christ’s sake. I watched about five minutes of that dreadful programme and gave up. As a footnote, a friend of mine saw them on a package tour and from where he was sitting could see an extra drummer hidden in the wings.
minibreakfast says
From what I’ve read on various music forums (fora?) over the years it seems they were huge in the US and remain very fondly regarded. I think they were rubbish myself, and last time the documentary was on I bailed after 30 mins.
Colin H says
Bobby Graham played drums on all their recordings.
Jorrox says
I had never heard of Bobby Graham before. Thanks for the info.
dai says
The executive producer of that doc was a certain Dave Clark …
mikethep says
Ah yes, the Tottenham Sound. Always seemed like a risible notion. The early hits are soundtrack of my life stuff and I therefore look on them reasonably fondly. But I never felt remotely like digging deeper. They belonged with the Applejacks, the Rocking Berries and other few-hit wonders.
Talking of smart business, I seem to remember that DC had the rights to Ready Steady Go, and sat on them for years so nobody could see any archive material. Don’t know if that’s still true.
JQW says
As I understood it, film transfers of some Ready Steady Go were discovered in a former Associated-Rediffusion office building during renovation, and they ended up in the hands of DC.
Which means that although he owned the recordings, he didn’t actually have the rights to them.
aging hippy says
Many of them got shown on Channel 4 some years ago. All episodes featured DC5. They were the first headline act I ever saw and I admit back then I liked them a lot (Glad All Over was the first single I ever bought). Clark has always been a figure of scorn (and jealousy) but if you take him out of the equation and think of them as the Mike Smith Four you’ve got a good band with a great singer.
JQW says
The clips of the DC5 that appeared in those Ready Steady Go repeats were pasted in from other shows.
Carl says
By one of those bizarre coincidences, the DC5 came up in a discussion at the weekend.
I too conjoined “Tottenham Sound” and “risible”.
Bartleby says
It’d be interesting to study the dates the DC5 toured the States. I wonder whether they happened to arrive at a time of maximum British invasion appetite and minimum supply. I struggled through the prog last time it was shown. What a tool.
Johnny Concheroo says
“And here’s my E-Type Jaguar”
Dave was not afraid to flaunt his wealth
Along with Herman’s Hermits and a few other oddball acts like, er, Chad & Jeremy, the DC5 were huge in America, much more than in Britain. The Americans were not terribly discerning with the bands they embraced in the wake of the Beatles during what they liked to call The British Invasion.
Dave Clark is a shrewd businessman, as mentioned above. For instance, he would release the DC5 CDs for a couple of years only and then delete them, creating huge demand. Then he’d release them again and the cycle would continue.
http://i.imgur.com/WPVJCTU.jpg
deramdaze says
For the prosecution:
The non-show of “Ready Steady Go.” Why? Bizarre and inexcusable, and not nearly as profitable (for him) or enjoyable (for us) as ownership of RSG should be.
For the defence:
1. Pretty much the only group to appear on Mark Lamarr’s “Shake, Rattle & Roll” AND “Alternative 60s” shows…..where are you Mark? We need you more than ever. Have you seen the current Radio 2 schedule?!!
2. The DC5 film, “Catch Us If You Can,” is absolutely brilliant. The first 20 minutes, depicting London in early months of ’65….the epicentre of the Golden Age…..are extraordinary. The best footage of the era I’ve ever seen.
The Actual North says
The boys gone psych!
https://youtu.be/zj5hpC9cJKw
Don’t know who wrote this, but I wish they hadn’t.
Bartleby says
Not a bad attempt in fairness. Some talent in that band, if only for arranging (mind you, I wonder how much the assembled party winced when Dave pulled his signature snare rolls out.
mikethep says
Groovy fiddlers! When they come to make the Dave Clark Five Story (or maybe the moment’s passed), Hugh Grant would be a shoe-in for Mike Smith.
Pessoa says
Clark seemed a sharp-minded young entrepreneur in an era of disastrously naive record deals. Our American cousins seem to remember them very fondly; DC made the Rock n’Roll Hall of Fame (shudder).
Johnny Concheroo says
Yes, right from the start Dave owned all the masters of the DC5 recordings and licenced them to EMI, thus ensuring maximum control and revenue return. This was unheard of in a era when even the Beatles were getting a farthing in royalties per side of their million selling singles (or whatever it was).
Colin H says
To be fair, I think the Zombies or their management did the same – certainly, they currently own their 60s stuff, hence all the box sets and alt take stuff that’s been released via Ace in recent years.
Sniffity says
Interesting account here from one of the founders of Rhino Records, and his attempts to deal with Dave…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-bronson/the-dave-clark-five-dave-_b_5091519.html
Bartleby says
Fascinating. Always nice when greed and stupidity are finally beaten by indifference.
metal mickey says
Very interesting piece – however shrewd & far-sighted DC was as a businessman (and he undoubtedly was), his “vanity” in clinging so tightly onto his rights means that his music has almost been forgotten through neglect…
… mind you, I’m inclined to think that as time goes on, virtually everyone from that era is becoming ever-more eclipsed by the Beatles & Stones… I’ve dwelled on this since we were talking about Roy Wood a few weeks back, that the Move, the Hollies, even maybe the Kinks, are all starting to drift to the memory wayside…
davebigpicture says
Possibly…but we’re off to see the Kinks jukebox musical, Sunny Afternoon in Brighton tomorrow. We only booked a few weeks ago and while not sold out at that point, we had trouble finding any decent seats for any of the evening performances, hence we’re going to the matinee.
bricameron says
I met him once in London mid to late ’80’s when my band was shopping for a deal. He offered us a deal right then and there only he wanted us to sign whatever stock contract he had in his desk drawer immediately and without perusal. I had to reach out and grab the pen from the guitarist’s hand!
Moose the Mooche says
Expressing eagerness to be in a business relationship with DC may be the most bonkers thing you have ever said. Thanks for sharing!
bricameron says
Au contraire on both points wee Moose!
Dave Ross says
This was a real oddity among Nans records. A 1980 Blancmange singlr, independent and quite rare from what I can find out yet the record says Dave Clark 5. A bit of research shows it to be the correct record for the release. If anyone knows anything about this I’d be very interested
minibreakfast says
It’s a DC5 cover version.
minibreakfast says
*ulp* https://www.discogs.com/Blancmange-Irene-Mavis/release/1203425
Dave Ross says
I have to confess I’d seen that but unbelievably there are 2 copies in the box of 60’s and 70’s stuff. One of my girlfriends aunts must have come across them somehow. Just weird that there’s a DC5 thread… I must speak to the family over Christmas and make sure they’re ok with selling them unless there’s another story behind it?
Sniffity says
What do you hear when you play it?
Dave Ross says
I don’t have a record player. I may get one over Christmas so I can listen to some of these songs
Johnny Concheroo says
Rare EP, only 500 made. As mini says, it’s just a cover of the DC5 song Concentration Baby but the label is printed so it looks like DC5 are playing.
Dave Ross says
From what I’ve read about DC here it seems weird that he would allow an unknown British electronic group to cover one of his songs on something that wouldn’t do him any favours either financially or through publicity?
Johnny Concheroo says
In most cases I don’t think it’s necessary to seek permission to cover a song unless the lyrics and/or melody are changed in some way.
From Google: “For the most part, it means that if you hear a song on the radio or on Itunes or on a bought CD, and it is not an opera or musical, and you want to make a recording of it yourself, but not a video, you can do that. That means you cannot use the compulsory licensing system to make a “cover” of a song from Les Miserables, but you can use it to make a cover of a song by The Ramones, System of a Down, Neil Diamond, Ben Folds, Vampire Weekend, Bob Dylan, Patti Smith, Simon and Garfunkel, etc.”
metal mickey says
I believe the publishing rules are that composers only have the right to decide who will release the first recording of a song – after that, a songwriter can’t stop a cover version unless the lyrics are changed or it’s a substantially different arrangement…
Sniffity says
In a similar vein, if you’re watching a movie, and a cover version of a well-known song starts up, you can usually be sure that the band wanted too much for use of the original recording, and it was cheaper to just pay the publisher and record a cover.
Johnny Concheroo says
A case in point is Handbags & Gladrags as the theme to The Office. Ricky has said they wanted the original Rod version, but the record company/publisher or whoever wanted too much money, so they recorded a very good sound alike version
Colin H says
Intriguingly, a few significant (ie. commercially still potent) artistes are now re-recording/covering their classic tracks in as-close-as-we-can-get fashion to the originals – Blondie and Jeff Lynne/ELO come to mind. The prize is being able to license these wholly-artist-owned versions to synchronisation opportunities (films, adverts etc).
Bartleby says
And also stop paying royalties to people you loathe. Peace and love Jeff, peace and love.
Mike_H says
Mick Hucknall has done exactly this with Simply Red’s recordings.
metal mickey says
Def Leppard & Squeeze, too…
As an aside, there’s a wrinkle in synch publishing (can’t remember the term for it) where the royalty rate is actually higher if the music is “integral” (e.g. being played on the radio in a scene) as opposed to “incidental” (e.g. as a soundtrack over the top of whatever’s happening)…
deramdaze says
I’m not so sure about the shrewd businessman angle.
If you go to the grocer’s and there are no apples, you leave the grocer with either no apples in your bag, or apples bought from another grocer!
How much money over the last 20 years could he have made if one RSG DVD had been made available each Christmas and sold at Sainsbury’s?
I only own one DC5 item on CD or DVD – the 1965 film on DVD, bought for less than a fiver, and I shouldn’t think too much profit from its sales wind up with Dave Clark.
Johnny Concheroo says
It worked for a while, when CDs sales were booming. Dave would license the music (usually just a double Best Of, as I recall) to one of the majors for a limited period, say two or three years, after which they were deleted and had to be removed from sale.
Then for a while used copies were selling for 50 quid each on eBay until Dave signed with another major and repeated the exercise. Presumably he received a huge advance and top royalties each time.
Many big bands do the same thing, but don’t delete the catalogue. AC/DC for instance used to move their entire catalogue between Sony, EMI and Festival (Aussie label) every couple of years no doubt for a shitload of cash every time. The difference was, the CDs stayed in the shops.
I don’t know if that would be possible these days with CDs all-but worthless.
moseleymoles says
So this far into the thread what have we learned…
1. That DC5 were ‘right band, right place’ with enough of a catchy single vibe to really clean up.
2. That DC himself was a canny businessman in it for the money rather than friends or the music itself.
What still mystifies me then is why he’d still be holding DC5 stuff from the public. He clearly doesn’t need the money. The Rhino Records article perhaps get closest – indicating his ego won’t let him find out whether his clever strategy of withholding their stuff for all these years has in fact reduced their market value due to no airplay or sync.
Johnny Concheroo says
I wonder if Dave was following the lead set by Walt Disney, whereby a movie would be unavailable in any form for years, thus creating huge interest and demand for its re-launch.
Moose the Mooche says
Guess what’s getting its UK television premiere next week? Sleeping Beauty. Release date? er, 1959.
moseleymoles says
And no-one has yet come forward as being named ‘Dave Clark’ to substantiate the Wikipedia assertion that the bands popularity led to a surge in baby-naming after the drummer. Did your family assume an alternate identity in homage to the canny sticksman? Call this number now.
Johnny Concheroo says
Something else we’ve learned.
The Fabs had their collarless Beatle suits, but the DC5 had their trademark Dr. Kildare shirts.
Dave was a stuntman(!) in the early 60s and he saw the distinctive high neck shirts with side buttons on sale while working on a film in Spain.
http://i.imgur.com/kHdaQb4.jpg
Bartleby says
Did any of the rest of the band ever talk about their time with Dave, or have they remained loyal?
Johnny Concheroo says
Only Dave and guitarist Lenny Davidson are still with us. I don’t remember the others speaking out about their time in the DC5.
Vocalist/keyboard man Mike Smith was the mainstay of the band, really. He had a moderate solo career, recording an album with Mike D’Abo out of Manfred Mann and appearing in the musical Evita.
Jorrox says
This is just awful. He says ‘Our arrangement of Georgia’ as the strings play Ray Charles’ arrangement of Georgia!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7nsPDl0fy4
Sniffity says
Was it reckless, foolhardy or astute to have a saxophonist in the lineup? Most bands in the post-Beatle boom stuck to the bass/guitar/drums format, with the occasional keyboardist added*…..but saxes were pretty thin on the ground, weren’t they?
*Being only a young tacker at the time, I could have this all wrong….feel free to correct me!
Johnny Concheroo says
Good point. I always found the sax a bit naff in any pop band. It was OK if they had jazz leanings like Georgie Fame, but not in a beat group. And yes it was unusual. I can only think of of a few. There was the Undertakers with Jackie Lomax. Their sax player was named Brian Jones, but he couldn’t have looked less like the flaxen haired Stone. Otherwise it was the instrumental bands like Sounds Incorporated and Peter Jay and the Jaywalkers etc
mikethep says
I always thought that the baritone sax added a bit of bollocks, myself. I was in a band once that had a tenor sax in it (standing in for the entire Memphis Horns) and it was amazing how it filled out the sound.
Johnny Concheroo says
it worked well in bands doing Stax/Motown covers, that’s for sure.
Here are the Undertakers with sax player, er, Brian Jones front centre and Jackie Lomax second left.
http://i.imgur.com/keAwEoo.jpg
Moose the Mooche says
That bloke out of the Kon-Rads was a bit of a spare prick and all.
Johnny Concheroo says
50 Undertakers records you must hear before you die
Moose the Mooche says
After, shurely?
Moose the Mooche says
Dave Clark’s lawyers, Winston Smith Associates, have insisted that this thread include audio of girls screaming “Daaaave!” over visual footage of girls screaming at The Beatles.
deramdaze says
Anyone know why “Glad All Over” by the DC5 is at no. 31 in the charts this week?
Has it been used in a film/TV programme recently?
minibreakfast says
A quick Google reveals it was used in a Strictly semi-final a couple of weeks ago…
Mike_H says
It’s a bloody good job that even the idea of watching “Strictly” brings me out in a cold sweat.
I might have inadvertently known the answer to that.
Johnny Concheroo says
Who could have predicted a few years ago that amateur dancing, competitive cooking and home renovation would become the most popular forms of artistic expression in the early 21st century? #DumbingDown
JQW says
It’s one of those “Get a single to No. 1” campaigns, this one being something to do with someone who plays for Rangers FC. I forget the rest.
ruff-diamond says
One of the few facts I know about Dave Clark is that he lives in a row of knocked through mews houses a la the Beatles in Help. Any comparisons between him and the fabs begin and end right there.
Bartleby says
It’s all very well sneering at Dave Clark, but you wouldn’t want to get on the wrong side of his plastic surgeon…
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r286/gtlondon/klingon1_1720737a_2.jpg
Moose the Mooche says
No, I have never danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight, since you ask.
ruff-diamond says
Christ, his face looks like it’s gone to pieces. Bits and pieces.
Sniffity says
Well, the doc went over and over and over again to get it right…