If you asked me if I liked Frank I would probably respond with “well Strangers in the Night is tolerable”.
Following Bob’s Shadows In The Night set I thought I’d dig out the originals. What a let down.
On another thread someone (I can’t remember who) mentioned Franks suicide trilogy which I guess are In The Wee Small Hours (having a wee in the small hours is an age thing), Where Are You?, and Sings For Only The Lonely. I’d happily sit through that lot with a bottle of whiskey and a bottle of pills knowing that I’d be asleep long before either were finished.
Trouble is Frank sounds flat ( © ianess ) to me. Am I missing something, is there a key to unlock the mysteries of his voice, ( the arrangements don’t do a lot for me either ).
Over to you lot, convince me I’m wrong!
Black Type says
This is an eloquent essay, published only two days ago, on why Sinatra was/is a great artist – explains it much better than I could. I would point you in particular to this passage:
“In truth, a less operatic, stage-forward singer hasn’t lived. Sinatra is all understatement, relaxation, wit, and ease. “The Voice” is mostly kept underneath the music; the aesthetic is one of inwardness. He’s much less self-consciously virtuosic than even his contemporaries among pop singers. Judy Garland is all vibrato and tears; Sinatra is all legato and regrets. In recordings, Bing Crosby or—greater still—Louis Armstrong both still sound like performers: you feel the stage and the footlights in their singing. Sinatra’s voice is always that of someone confiding, not someone emoting. He isn’t square. This gives his voice its extraordinary sympathy. He sounds the way you would sound if you could speak the things you feel.”
Black Type says
The full essay/article:
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-pure-artistry-of-frank-sinatra
Fiction Romantic says
Thanks for posting the link, interesting read, especially about the 2 sides of Frank. Certainly he did a good line in self pity.
mikethep says
I’d endorse the New Yorker guy’s recommendation of the 1959 live concert in Australia with the Red Norvo quartet – it’s brilliant, and a great place to start. Not on Spotify, but it’s on YouTube.
Black Type says
I have the CD of that concert. I much prefer it to the lauded ‘Sinatra At The Sands’ album
Gatz says
You can relax. You’re right.
daff says
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but, as you have got this far with those 3 albums, before you come to a final decision listen to Come Fly With Me. Also listen to the ‘songs’ Summer Wind and It Was a Very Good Year.
ganglesprocket says
Songs For Swinging Lovers is one of the greatest albums recorded by anyone ever.
My advice is to listen to I’ve Got You Under My Skin, learn the words then try to sing along. When you listen to him doing it, it’s the easiest, most natural thing in the world. Then, when you try it yourself, you discover, it’s phenomenally difficult to get right. The key changes are MURDER. He makes it sound as natural as breathing.
That in a nutshell is his gift as far as I’m concerned. You hear him and think anyone could do this. Then you try…
Fiction Romantic says
err, you haven’t heard me “sing”, every one else seems easy after that!
ganglesprocket says
Doesn’t matter. Frank is that times a million. People sing his songs because they think they can, and they think that because he made it all sound easy. It truly isn’t. Making the difficult look easy is the mark of a true artist. That’s what Frank Sinatra did and what he was.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Nope, you are wrong. 90% of Frank’s singing is manufactured. Compared to Ella he is a mere fledgling.
Saying all that howevet, In The Wee Small Hours is simply magnificent, flawless.
ganglesprocket says
What do you mean by “manufactured”? How is this a bad thing?
Yup it was recorded and distributed like any other singer. Yup, he worked hard on it (my point being he didn’t “sound” like he did), yup he was successful. How on earth is “manufactured” meaningful as criticism in any way?
You are perfectly entitled to prefer Ella Fitzgerald of course. However all singers are manufactured, that’s why it’s called performing. Performing isn’t real, it’s all an act. Frank was good at it.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
I concede manufactured is the wrong term. Just that I find the majority of his work flat and to be honest his phrasing although virtually impossible to replicate leaves me cold
Twang says
+1 for Songs for Swingin’ Lovers. Fabulous. I like all his work TBH, the uptempo big band stuff, the bar room ballads…it’s a sound of its time of course. My Dad was a huge fan but he always said Bing Crosby was the more naturally gifted singer – Frank was a product of hard work. Personally I prefer Frank to Bing…maybe it’s the whole Sinatra thing which surrounds him?
Junglejim says
Ella & Frank can’t really be compared. I love them both but they tick different boxes – Ella’s voice is essentially ‘perfect’, but that’s often not what folk really want. I know fans of Sarah Vaughan , Dinah Washington or Nina Simone for example who never listen to Ella, citing the lack of an obvious flaw as a major factor in ther disinterest. I’ll concede that there are times when her obvious talent can’t hide the fact there’s no way she’s ‘ living the song’. Love For Sale is an obvious example. Brillantly sung, but you don’t buy it for a minute.
Frank on the other hand almost conjures the ‘perfect imperfection’ idea that another thread went into the other day. The voice isn’t ‘perfect’ like Nat King Cole, Mel Torme or Elvis but it has something unique about it that couldn’t be taught. His idol was Cosby, but they sound nothing alike.
Where he scores over almost all the competition is, as gangle said, is his timing & phrasing. It is virtually impossible to properly replicate.
To totally endorse the ‘Frank test’, listen to My Funny Valentine & I Get A Kick Out Of You a few times. Then try to sing along to either & match his timing. You will definitely fail, but get an insight into what a fantastic singer e was. There’s nothing obvious or easy about being that good.
I should add for balance that love his stuff as I do, when he stinks he * really* stinks. I don’t care for the more maudlin stuff but there are also real disasters IMHO like You Are The Sunshine Of My Life that he just should have stayed well away from.
Junior Wells says
So if flawed is the appeal you should love Dylan’s latest platter – songs sung by Frankie !
Junior Wells says
“How did all these people get in my room…”
For the sixties try Sinatra at the Sands. Count Basie Orchestra plus Quincy Jones.
Version of Under My Skin simply rocks
http://www.allmusic.com/album/sinatra-at-the-sands-mw0000650777
Junglejim says
Totally agree Junior.
Do take care to avoid Frank’s punishingly unfunny ‘ comic monologue’ though. It is an extraordinarily long & airless 8 mins or so.
dai says
His sister Fran is useless, but Frank is the greatest
deramdaze says
I’m an unreconstructed male and, in my book, if you’re on the side of Chuck and Buddy and Eddie and Gene, there ain’t no room for no Frank Sinatra.
Hell will freeze over before I own a Rat Pack record.
mikethep says
Unreconstructed is right, people used to write letters along those lines to the NME in 1959. Francis Albert didn’t have a lot of time for Chuck and Buddy and Eddie and Gene either, as I recall. But I agree, a Sammy Davis Jr record would be beyond the pale.
fatima Xberg says
I love a bit of Chuck Mangione, Buddy Rich, Eddie Palmieri and Gene Krupa on a Sunday afternoon, and I don’t understand why there shouldn’t be room for Mr. Frank too.
ganglesprocket says
The Wham Of Sam, by Sammy Davis Jnr, is terrific. That is all.
SixDog says
Sinatra is all about the image. All about the image. The immaculate suits, the skinny tie and tailored shirt. The cuffs shot to perfection. The hair parted with a razor blade (lead to the piece in later years). The lazily puffed cigarette. The girls. The mafioso. The latent air of ambivalent menace that surrounded him like a halo. The adultery arrest. The “alpha male” of the Rat Pack. No-one did anything without Frank’s approval.
Of course, all this wouldn’t have been possible without a modicum of musical talent and nous. The Bobbysoxer years laid the foundations for this absolute legend of 20th century entertainment. He couldn’t “sing”. In the same way that Dylan “can’t sing”. He can croon and he can tell a story that your heart truly believes in.
Love Frank.
Here’s Frank and Bing…
https://youtu.be/rXUKA9DQd3k
timtunes says
Sinatra is a genius.
Yes, a style icon, actor (good one too), and full-on star – but put all of that aside he is a musical genius. One also that has gone through such definite phases. Some examples:-
1) The first shining of his talent on his Columbia recordings
I posted his earlier version of “A Fool To Want You” on a Shadows In The Night thread. I like Bob’s version, but Frank and his peerless phrasing – that which cements his genius – kills it. Listen at 2 mins in here and you can’t not be moved.
2) His Capitol period. Every album. Whilst my Dad was always a big fan, I first discovered those when they were the LPs were re-released in the mid-80s. I couldn’t believe the feeling and mood conveyed by the misery albums – blew me away. The phrasing plus the arrangements…I dent anyone not to be moved.
3) The Reprise Years. Some not so good albums but also some stone-cold classics. Who else of his vintage would release albums like the Rod McKuen collaboration or best of all a concept album?? Watertown is solid gold – and once again a ten hankie affair of a dead relationship
4) Live. I have numerous box-sets of Frank recordings released in recent years – magic. But the best memory for me was seeing him live in 1993 at The Desert Inn, Las Vegas. His voice wasn’t in top condition, but when the lights dimmed and he sat at the piano with a lit cigarette, a single spotlight behind him, singing this – I don’t think my goosebumps have yet calmed down. My No.1 Live music moment.
timtunes says
Damn! The Idle Race was stuck in my cut & paste!!!
It should of course have been this! (although the Idle Race is also a tear-jerker)
timtunes says
Glorious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHm-WCrKfrs
timtunes says
Recently released footage from the London box set
timtunes says
timtunes says
Fiction Romantic says
Thanks Tim for these selections. I’m coming round to the late night confessionals but I’m not sold on the big band arrangements. Interesting to compare Frank’s quite jaunty version of Loves Been Good To Me with Johnny Cash’s world weary version on American V.
Now listening to Sings For Only The Lonely, it’s growing on me.
timtunes says
Yeah, I know what you mean with the big band stuff – it has a lot of baggage…
deramdaze says
Whenever, and it’s normally once or twice a week, Brian Matthew plays a Buddy Rich, Dean Martin, Dinah Washington, Frank Sinatra etc. track on ‘Sounds of the 60s’, it virtually kills the show stone dead.
Being (slightly) charitable, it could be that that supper club vibe doesn’t really suit 8.10 a.m. on a Saturday morning.
Funnily enough, despite being in his 80s now, Brian never seems to be that enamoured with all that stuff. He seems to prefer playing The Stones and The Who!
It seems to have somehow skipped a generation.
Bono and Costello can’t get enough of it, can they?
Vulpes Vulpes says
What’s the deal, you ask? You either get him or you don’t. If you don’t, you have cloth ears, no swing and no soul.
It’s like saying you don’t get an adrenaline spike from the opening of The Boys Are Back In Town, or a moment of wistful reflection at the start of Simple Twist Of Fate, a deeply felt sense of loss and affection at the first line of Who Knows Where The Time Goes, or a lift from the first chords of Could You Be Loved.
deramdaze says
Thank the Lord all the rock ‘n’ rollers had ‘cloth ears’ in 1956.
Fiction Romantic says
Right, thanks for all the recommendations. I’ll give them a listen tonight and let you know if anyone has convinced me that there’s something there after all. Watch this space!
kingtim says
Don’t miss out on ‘Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim’ the 1967 album Frank recorded with the Girl from Ipanema Hitmaker.
The equivalent of Tony Bennett recording with Skrillex or something.
Tiggerlion says
Fabulous album.
I’ve loved Frank since childhood. One of the few records we had was Songs For Swinging Lovers. I know every word, every inflection. It is masterful, artful singing. He is so skilled at drawing the listener in to the detail of the song, even if he is ‘flat’.
The album with Jobim is exquisite.
Fifer says
I got this wondrous collection from the tax dodgers for silly money. It spans both some of the ups and some of the downs of Frank’s career. Thoroughly recommended – http://www.amazon.co.uk/1954-1961-Albums-15-complete-albums/dp/B00J0YABJ2/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1428695013&sr=1-6&keywords=frank+sinatra
timtunes says
That set is glorious
Fin59 says
Bruce Springsteen on Frank says all that needs to be said.
“t was the deep, the deep blueness of Frank’s voice that affected me the most and while his music became synonymous with black tie, the good life, the best booze, women, sophistication, his blues voice was always the sound of hard luck, and men late at night with the last ten dollars in their pockets, trying to figure a way out.
timtunes says
Nice
timtunes says
Can I add a word for his last album for Reprise in 1981 – another bunch of miserable songs and this was much better than might have been thought – certainly the risible Duets albums
Fiction Romantic says
Curse timtunes for his introductions above. I have taken the plunge and ordered a 12 CD set covering the 15 Capitol albums for £14.99 from the usual non dom website. I’ll let you know how I get on when I’ve had a chance to digest.
I have also dipped my toes into the murky waters of Frank’s Columbia years, he was a busy chap.
I don’t know how he found the time for the acting but there’s a heck of a lot of stuff to wade through before you even get to the Reprise years. This could be a long project, I may be some time.
Jorrox says
If Sinatra isn’t the greatest interpreter of The Great American Songbook then who do you think is?
mikethep says
I reckon Frank and Ella are neck and neck, in their different ways.
Bingo Little says
Fred Durst.
Simonl says
I love Sinatra. For me he’s one of those people, like The Stones,Dylan, The Clash or Prince, The Smiths or Bowie where you have to buy into the world surrounding them, the image, the idea as much as the songs. They created such a distinctive style that it’s now a template for a certain kind of musician, a certain kind of style, pretty much shorthand for that too. For me, these kind of people demand that you immerse yourself in it, listen in context. With Sinatra – like Prince – for me the best context to hear a Sinatra is in the middle of other Sinatra albums.
And yes, he isn’t on the note. He’s a trumpet, sometimes muted, sometimes not. That’s the instrument he’s singing. He floats about the note. Go with it, and if you don’t get it, don’t get hung up on it. There’s about 500 separate Sinatra tunes on my ipod, I’ll listen to them for you!