And so it goes, another week another Afterword Poll. This week it`s the Best David Bowie Studio Albums Poll. There has been a lot of moanin` an` groanin` going on about which albums should be excluded/included and not without merit. However I stated at the start that this was to be a studio albums poll and had I then said `OK Live albums are included`, no doubt there would have been `What about compilations, bootlegs, Tin bloody Machine!`. Maybe in 6 months I will conduct a poll to include all the albums people wish to be included. I doubt there will be much change in the order of studio albums rankings but will ★ rate higher, how would `David Live` be regarded?
Right to the poll results, please find them in the comments. Just a reminder the position of each album was arrived at by the total points each album accrued. Placing an album 1st earned 5 points, placing 2nd earned 4 points down to 1 point for placing 5th. If you did not allot a position to your 5 choices each choice earned 3 points. The points each album received is in the first column of figures. I have also indicated the number of votes each album received, 2nd column. The third column indicates how many voters made that album their number one choice.
At the last count 100 Afterworders had voted, thanks to you all for taking the time and trouble.
https://theafterword.co.uk/bowies-greatest-studio-albums/comment-page-1/#comment-199806
Baron Harkonnen says
First Column – Total Points, Second – Votes Received, Third – Number of 1st Places
1: Hunky Dory (275) (74) (23)
2: Station To Station (251) (70) (20)
3: Ziggy Stardust (237) (69) (17)
4: Low (169) (52) (12)
5: Aladdin Sane (98) (35) (2)
6: Scary Monsters (86) (30) (4)
7: Blackstar ★ (67) (33) (1)
8: “Heroes” (57) (25) (1)
9: Diamond Dogs (56) (23) (2)
10: Young Americans (52) (18) (0)
11: Heathen (19) (8) (0)
12: Let`s Dance (17) (8) 0()
12: The Man Who Sold The World (17) (7) (0)
14: 1. Outside (16) (5) (1)
15: Lodger (13) (5) (0)
16: David Bowie/Space Oddity (14) (5) (1)
16: Pin Ups (12) (5) (0)
18: The Buddha Of Suburbia (7) (4) (0)
19: The Next Day (5) (3) (0)
20: Reality (4) (2) (0)
21: David Bowie (1st) (3) (1) (0)
Well that was a surprise, there was a feeling amongst some and no one questioned them, that `Station To Station` was easily the first choice. Hunky Dory received more points, more votes and picked up more Number 1 selections than Station To Station.
The 70`s album`s, predictably picked up and I`m guessing here, it`s late and I`m not getting the bloody calculator out, around 90% of the votes. Obviously there were more albums released in that decade but apart from ★, no albums after 1980 were really rated. Anyhow it`s over to those that way inclined to do a more in depth breakdown should they wish.
Baron Harkonnen says
Tonight, Never Let Me Down, Black Tie White Noise, Earthling, Hours are the albums that didn`t receive a vote.
*Going back to my comments re: Live. Compilations, T.M. albums not being allowed, some could say Buddha of Suburbia should not have been allowed, it being a soundtrack. Hmmm, over to you @tiggerlion!
The Muswell Hillbilly says
I would suggest that Buddha is not a soundtrack album in any real sense. Only the title track is featured in the TV series; the rest of the set is unique to the record, although I think it states that it is a soundtrack album in the sleeve notes.
Feel a bit sorry for Black Tie White Noise. Whilst hardly a classic it’s one I do return to fairky regularly. Probably because it’s the first one I remember actually seeking out upon its release. I remember picking it up at Banstead library and starting to draw all the strands of this long career together. Mind you, I didn’t vote fot it, so I’ve only myself to blame.
Tiggerlion says
Six post 1990 albums in the top twenty doesn’t seem too shabby until you realise there were only 26 options to vote for?. Buddha’s content isn’t actually a soundtrack as The Hillbilly points out. 1970s domination is no surprise, but lovely to see Aladdin Sane so high up despite everything.
Well done Baron. And lots of people voting. The Afterword is alive.
Baron Harkonnen says
Re: BOS, I was playing Devil`s Advocate.
Exactly 100 Afterworders voted. There is a high probability that DB is the Afterword`s (not mine) most favoured artist but that`s another poll.
Baron Harkonnen says
Regarding David Bowie, since I put the poll up I have been listening to the great man`s music almost non-stop. I`ve filled in a few gaps not bloody Tin Machine, no way. I have a load of boots I`m gonna listen to next. I would love a 5:1 surround of ★, let`s hope Tony Visconti does it. My favourite album? It`s between `A Reality Tour` & `David Live`, hur hur ; ))
Johnny Concheroo says
Nice work Baron.
Despite the naysayers I suspected Hunky Dory would win all along, simply by the number of voters who placed it in their top 3 with monotonous regularity.
Great to see it’s now officially the best Bowie album (according to the Afterword).
Baron Harkonnen says
Just saw your comment Johnny before signing off for the night, as you get down to the beach! Thanks for your comment, HD, as I said got most points, votes and No 1 picks than S2S, although S2S did pick up more votes initially.
When I posted the table all the numbers were grouped together so I had to bracket them, I only cocked up with one, Let`s Dance.
Johnny Concheroo says
I admire your tenacity and dedication to the task. I’d love to see more of these polls.
As for me, surf’s up, so see ya later, suckers!
http://i.imgur.com/b4Zx6oc.jpg
SteveT says
You need beefing up a bit mate. Shall we send you some steak and kidney pies over?
Johnny Concheroo says
I’d prefer bangers and mash and spotted dick.
I’m seeing the doctor tomorrow
nickduvet says
Good work Baron. Not a surprise to me that Hunky Dory is at the top, and rightly so in my view.
What a piece of work to deliver and get scarcely any recognition for at the time of release.
Johnny Concheroo says
And I’m always surprised to remember that a song as perfect as Life On Mars came so early in Bowie’s career. Admittedly HD was his 4th album, but I always count the first two as warm-ups and consider TMWSTW as his first “proper” album.
Baron Harkonnen says
`Life On Mars` is one of rock music`s greatest tracks, no argument. Like you said Johnny in one of your comments on the poll thread, `Hunky Dory` only started selling once `Ziggy` took off.
Arthur Cowslip says
Looks like our tastes are in alignment with BBC listeners:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4SHsZ7X5M66FrdX2l55hm6w/6-musics-favourite-david-bowie-album-of-all-time-vote
I didn’t think to vote for Hunky Dory. I love a lot of songs on it, and Life On Mars may be my favourite Bowie song ever, but I think side two really dips. Plus I always feel it is more a collection of good tunes in random order rather than a cohesive album, and a bit embryonic style-wise.
A well deserved first choice though. I’m also surprised and pleased to see Aladdin Sane so high up.
Mousey says
So who were the other 4 people besides me who voted for Lodger?
Baron Harkonnen says
If you think I`m going, err, hang on a minute, there you are @mousey;
ip33 says
I know who was the only person to vote for the 1st Bowie album!
MC Escher says
I am not really surprised that the later albums didn’t feature highly given the Seventies he had. I only voted for three but only because I found it dificult to exclude any of the others.
If we’d had a top 10 now 😉 , we might have seen more of a spread and less focus on the standard “civilian” Imperial Bowie. Not to deprecate any of your good work on the poll Baron, of course!
Baron Harkonnen says
I don`t know about that, I think the poll would have looked almost the same.
Regarding ★ and your comment below MC the opposite may happen, although I agree.
MC Escher says
Plus Blackstar is still surfing the wave of Bowie mourning. If this exercise was repeated in Five Years (SWIDT) I predict it will have slipped out of the top 10.
dai says
No it will be higher.
metal mickey says
Firstly, kudos to Baron for taking the time & trouble!
That was my top 4, albeit in a slightly different order, so I can have no arguments with the final result, though as a few have already mentioned, I’m surprised to see Aladdin Sane so high up… my other surprise is seeing The Next Day so far down, but my guess would be that Blackstar took all of the love for his final works…
Blue Boy says
Great stuff Baron – thanks for doing this. Looks a list that pretty much accords what the general critical and public consensus would be – only slightly surprised that “Heroes” isn’t a bit higher, although I didn’t vote for it. will indeed be interested to see if Blackstar holds its position – I do think it’s a great record leave aside the circumstances of 2016, so I think it may well do
minibreakfast says
Are all four of the votes for Buddha Of Suburbia from tigger?
Tiggerlion says
I hope so.
The Muswell Hillbilly says
One from me…
Baron Harkonnen says
I disqualified @tiggerlions vote because of flagrant disregard of, erm, things!
Tiggerlion says
What, all of them!!!?
Baron Harkonnen says
Well all except one Tiggs : ))
Moose the Mooche says
Nya ha ha! Nobody fucks with The Electoral Commission Of Rock!!
attackdog says
Can’t understand the general surprise surrounding Aladdin Sane – an astonishing album bang in the middle of his period of frantic evolution.
I agree entirely about The Next Day. The single later album so closely aligned musically with his most successful period but so far down on the Afterword menu of choice.
Arthur Cowslip says
I think of Aladdin Sane as a kind of potboiler, almost half-baked. Don’t get me wrong, it’s astonishing, but it’s astonishing for being a quick project vomited out by a young artist at the top of his game. Plus conceptually speaking it wasn’t too much of a departure from Ziggy. Bowie would really show his ability to regenerate in new forms with Dogs and Young Americans.
Bartleby says
Good job Baron. The popularity of the Ziggy album always surprises me. Maybe you had to be there…
Johnny Concheroo says
Maybe you did have to be there.
The Ziggy album and Lou Reed’s Transformer (produced by Bowie and Mick Ronson) were released within a few months of each other in mid/late 1972. My mate had a top of the range Quad hi fi with high end speakers (a rare thing in an age where compulsory stereo was only 3 or 4 years old) and in late 1972 he sat me down and played both albums back-to-back, pointing out the production values of each in great detail.
That day I heard things I had never heard on a record before, not by the Beatles, the Stones, Dylan or, heaven forbid, even DONOVAN.
I heard space and air between the instruments and could tell exactly where each instrument sat in the mix. I heard Mick Ronson’s guitar overdubs as clear as day and could see exactly how the records had been made.
At a stroke the clean production of Ziggy and Transformer made most records that came before sound muddy and unfinished. We take such things for granted now but believe me that was a rare and wonderful thing in 1972.
I became aware of record production that day. It was an experience that has never left me.
Bartleby says
See that amazes me. I’ve always found the Ziggy production thin and top heavy. Aladdin Sane sounds far more threatening and alive – cf the grumble of Ronno’s guitars at the start of Cracked Actor or the ‘live in your head’ piano of Aladdin Sane or Lady Grinning Soul and compare to the flat as a pancake Ziggy title track production. I can see they’re important songs, and in the case of Five Years and the title track, bear repeating, but it doesn’t grab me sonically or thematically. Ziggy on Stage however – much more visceral.
Johnny Concheroo says
Much as I love Aladdin Sane (best ever Bowie LP sleeve?) I find the production harsh and brittle compared to Ziggy.
How do you feel about Transformer? There’s even more air in the production on that album. The best Lou Reed album by a long way was made with the momentum from the Ziggy album.
As I say, maybe you did have to be there because pretty soon, all/most records began to sound as good as that.
Bartleby says
I genuinely scratch my head when you say that Ziggy sounds good. It sounds so distant and dead to me. Compared to contemporaneous albums by the Stones, Purple, Elton John etc. Transformer I haven’t listened to in years, but my memory of the songs tells me it sounds more alive – the guitar spikes in Vicious, the air and space given to Herbie Flowers’ bass, the live sound of Satellite of Love.
Agree on the Aladdin Sane cover. The late Duffy at his nearly best. It’s a lovely package altogether. Just needs a few better songs 😁
Johnny Concheroo says
That’s how I hear Ziggy. Five Years is a dead ringer for the production on Transformer. After all, both albums were recorded at Trident studios within months of each other with the same two people in control.
Bartleby says
Yebbut, having scanned t’internet, it seems quite a few people also regard it as thin and weedy. Including this rather erudite chap:
“I find the Ziggy Stardust record very thin. I don’t like the sound on that, it’s much thinner than I always thought it was. It sounded really powerful then; maybe systems have got better, it sounds kind of weedy.”
One D Bowie in Q 1990. Not that it remotely trumps your memory or your ears. It just sounds like a scrawny, malnourished nerd picking a fight to me. Whereas Aladdin Sane sounds like a full fat, Charles Atlas “Did you spill my pint” throbber.
Re Transformer, I think this sort of production – especially the heavily EQ’d guitar (bottom almost entirely missing) suits the material better than it suits Ziggy, which I always thought of as less camp and bitchy maybe.
Johnny Concheroo says
I think it all comes back to “you had to be there”. The production style on Ziggy was unlike anything we/I had heard before. It may sound “thin” to some now (not me), but it was a revelation in 1972.
The first Plastic Ono Band album pre-dated Ziggy for the amount of space in the production perhaps, but Lennon didn’t fill out the sound nearly as much as Bowie did
Bartleby says
I’m not entirely sure what you mean with ‘amount of space’ and ‘fill out the sound’. The electric guitar sound is quite compressed and EQ’d, as is DB’s voice – which matches or maybe preceded how many glam recordings were done. The other instruments sound ok, conventionally mic’d, just maybe a bit compressed (and EQ’d) in the overall mix maybe, hence v little bottom end. Hearing the uncompressed, less EQ’d live Ziggy on Stage was far more thrilling to these ears.
Johnny Concheroo says
Starting at the beginning, there’s a lot of space on Five Years.
It starts with a steady drum beat heavily miked, then bass, piano and vocals join in for over a minute and a half. Synth strings drift in at 1:40 and as the vocal gets more intense, Bowie’s double tracked backing vocals join in at 2:50. The synth strings and vocals jointly reach a crescendo and the song ends back on the original steady drum beat which segues perfectly into the acoustic intro to Soul Love.
Add to that lines like “The queer threw up at the sight of that” and the whole thing is shockingly glorious. It’s sheer genius and it sounded like nothing on earth in 1972.
I could take you through the entire album like that, but my brain, well it’s starting to hurt like a warehouse. So I’ll leave it at that.
Bartleby says
Gotcha. That sounds like the arrangement, rather than the production. Close mic’ing of individual drums was standard by 72 – witness the Who’s Next isolated drum tracks. The difference in sound between the 2 drum sounds is again the EQ and compression I think
Johnny Concheroo says
Possibly, but I come from a time when arrangement and production meant pretty much the same thing.
Returning to Transforner for a minute. There are two basses on Walk on the Wild Side. Herbie Flowers played upright bass then doubled it with his electric bass (or the other way round). To me that’s production. Would you call it arrangement?
Bartleby says
We’re probably violently agreeing on this stuff. It sort of depends who arranged it – sometimes you have musically adventurous and involved producers – George Martin f’instance – and other times, the artist knows exactly how s/he wants things to sound – Kate Bush, Zappa et al. Here, arrangement tends to be done by the artist, sometimes with musician suggestions, the only ‘production’ help needed is engineering and the artist grabs the production credit.
nickduvet says
I listened to Ziggy this morning – original 72 vinyl and followed the instruction “To be played at maximum volume”. Nothing weedy about it. The production is still outstanding, but doesn’t get in the way of the music. It brings out not only the nuances of Ronson’s guitar, but the sax, the strings and the drama of the songs. Ken Scott takes a lot of credit for that, but also, from the Classic Albums show about Transformer, it’s clear from what Lou said that Ronno had a lot to do with it too.
Johnny Concheroo says
Amen to that brother. So many great moments. The ensemble playing on Moonage Daydream for instance leading to Ronson’s paint-stripping guitar solo at the end, then straight into the acoustic intro of Starman with that funny Bb chord played with an open E string. Then Ronno’s guitar motif played at the end of the chorus, leading to the “La La” coda.
ruff-diamond says
Take it to the Steve Hoffman Forum, you two…
Apropos of literally nothing either of you have mentioned, I discovered a fascinating fact the other day while browsing Nicholas Pegg’s Complete Bowie – the acoustic 12 string on this piece of Newley-esque whimsy from 1966 is played by none other than future Pentangler John Renbourn:
deramdaze says
There’s something in all this production business.
I have always seen Ziggy Stardust as a bookend.
Johnny Concheroo says
Thanks RD, I didn’t know that. It certainly sounds like the late, great Renbourn.
Remove Bowie’s vocal and it could pass for something on the first Renbourn album which was released in the same year.
I wonder if @colin-h knows how it came about
ruff-diamond says
continuing the Pentangle theme, drummer Terry Cox played on Bowie’s eponymous 1969 album.
Junior Wells says
By a long way ? Too many duff tracks. Berlin the most accomplished of the lot followed by New York and Blue Mask.
Johnny Concheroo says
From Wiki:
In 1997, Transformer was named the 44th greatest album of all time in a ‘Music of the Millennium poll conducted in the United Kingdom by HMV Group, Channel 4, The Guardian and Classic FM.
Transformer is also ranked number 55 on NME ‘s list of “Greatest Albums of All Time.”
In 2003, the album was ranked number 194 on Rolling Stone magazine’s list of the 500 greatest albums of all time.
It is also on Q Magazine’s list of “100 Greatest Albums Ever”
MC Escher says
Lists are rubbish when applied to music. There, I’ve said it (again 🙂 ).
If you take away the distorting prism of being in one’s teens when you first hear it; heard today, ‘Transformer’ has none of the emotional weight, or the great songs, or the fabulous sound of Berlin as produced by Bob Ezrin. I’m with Junior: there are only three or four great tracks on ‘Transformer.’
Tiggerlion says
Iconic cover, three exceptionally brilliant tracks (Walk On The Wild Side, Perfect Day and Satellite Of Love). Berlin is a better album, as is the blue one and New York. However, any VU studio album trumps the lot.
Bartleby says
Tend to agree, hence liking the compilation. Soft spot for Vicious too – bit of a sister to my 8 yo’s current favourite song, Queen Bitch.
Bingo Little says
And “I’m So Free”, and “Goodnight Ladies”.
I think it’s a cracking album. It’s not his best collection of songs, but it has perfect sequencing, a bit of light and shade and the cover doesn’t hurt it either.
I was 22 the first time I heard it, and it was the late 90s, so not sure it’s gotta be a teen thing.
Baron Harkonnen says
A mate of mine made me sit and listen to `Berfuckinglin` 8 times on the trot the day of release. I didn`t recover for 2 months, shakes, morbid fascination with my own condition. Could have been the drugs, maybe.
Johnny Concheroo says
I bought Berlin, Sally Can’t Dance and the two live albums on release on the strength of Transformer.
I’ve still got the live albums (all that guitar!) but Transformer is the only Lou Reed studio LP I kept.
Bartleby says
To my shame, my favourite Lou studio album is the retrospective Retro, which also has a couple of VU tracks taken from the live albums. Berlin (and Berlin live) also pretty good.
dai says
Best Lou Reed album, without a doubt, is New York, followed by Songs for Drella (with Cale) and Berlin.
Kaisfatdad says
Fine work Baron! Thanks for going to all that trouble.
The discussion that the poll has generated makes for fascinating reading.
Artery says
Just a follow up to the Ziggy sound discussion. I followed Bowie and the Spiders around London for five months after I saw the Toby Jug show – Epsom, Ewell, Croydon, Kingston etc and bought Ziggy on day of release. My feeling was of slight disappointment, simply because the record’s sound was not so powerful and electric as the incendiary live power I experienced at those shows. I should note that the cheap Halcyon 260 with bookshelf speakers I had at that time was no audiophile classic, and that has something to do with it I think. That very same first pressing of Ziggy today sounds much better on my current far, far superior sound system.
Aladdin Sane is a very good album but I think is let down by three weaker songs – Watch That Man, Panic In Detroit and (the rather awful) Let’s Spend The Night Together. Others, like Drive In Saturday, Aladdin Sane and especially Lady Grinning Soul sparkle and shine. I actually think Bowie’s vocal on the last song is the pinnacle of his recorded work. Aladdin Sane is kinda like Led Zeppelin II in that it was recorded all over North America and the UK while on tour but somehow manages to sound great and all of one piece.
Diamond Dogs was my number two choice after Hunky Dory. It is an album that has sounded better and better to me as the years pass. I liked it at the time but had yet to forgive Bowie for breaking up the Spiders. I now find it almost faultless. Let it grow on you, especially Candidate/Sweet Thing/Candidate which is amazing beyond belief. Those original RCA masterings of Hunky, Ziggy, Aladdin, Pinups and Dogs are peerless first pressings. I own no records that sound better.
Thanks to Baron for doing this!
attackdog says
May I also add my thanks to The Baron. This whole episode or commeroration has been hugely enjoyable.
May I ask Artery, was the visit to Croydon you mention to see DB at the Fairfield Halls?
Artery says
Well, I was referring to February to early June 1972, before Ziggy was released, so it was Croydon Greyhound I was thinking of. However, I saw lots more Spiders shows after Ziggy came out, including both shows at the Fairfield Halls, matinee and evening, in May 1973. There is a photo taken at one of those shows in Mick Rock’s book in which I am clearly visible. I also make a (very) brief appearance in the Ziggy Stardust concert film. The two kids prominently displayed in the front row throughout the film were my school friend Guy and his girlfriend Christine. Where are they now I wonder?
Johnny Concheroo says
Hey, I’m in the Ziggy film too, during the footage of the fans gathering outside the Hammersmith Odeon.
ruff-diamond says
You weren’t at his concert in Dunstable the previous year were you?
Artery says
No missed the Dunstable show. I lived in New Malden, Surrey and that was outside my range,
Moose the Mooche says
@johnny-concheroo you’re easily spotted when that doorman rolls his eyes and says “Oh f***in’ hell, it’s you again!”
MC Escher says
Re Lady Grinning Soul: according to the rather wonderful “Rebel Rebel” book, that song contains the highest note in Bowie’s entire singing output. G#5, fact fans.
Johnny Concheroo says
I’ve seen that on Wiki, but don’t get it because in my understanding G#5 is a chord, not a note as such.
Johnny Concheroo says
I’ve been to a few record fairs at the Oxford Town Hall and always make a point of telling those I’m with that this iconic photo by Mick Rock was taken there in 1972. Their eyes usually glaze over, funnily enough.
Look at the faces in the crowd!
Who can name the piano player, btw?
http://i.imgur.com/1RN4ZmI.jpg
Artery says
From memory I think it’s Nicky Graham, The sound engineer was Robin Mayhew. There was no piano at the Toby Jug in February but one appeared in the next couple of months.
Mayhew taped each show on a cassette from the board, but re-used the tapes for the next night’s show. Argh!
Johnny Concheroo says
Correct, it’s Nicky Graham. He has quite an interesting CV. Nicky only played with the Spiders for two months during August and September 1972.
Before that he was a member of The End who released one LP and a couple of single on Decca. produced by Bill Wyman.
He then joined Tucky Buzzard who recorded for Purple records, also produced by Bill Wyman.
After Bowie Nicky moved into A&R/production at Polydor and later CBS
Moose the Mooche says
Ahh… but whither The Arnold Corns?
Johnny Concheroo says
I wish I had a box of those Arnold Corns singles now!
Going back to the photo, the glam look was a dicey business to pull off well. Bowie obviously had it down perfectly, always (and so did Marc Bolan until he put on weight) but others got it badly wrong. Sweet for example were hopeless (insert bricklayers in make-up jibe here) and Slade weren’t much better. And let’s not even mention the horror that was Chicory Tip.
We can’t see much of Nicky Graham in that picture, but he’s clearly not got the figure for knee-high boots and a satin jump suit.
Mick Ronson carries it off, just, but the “Regency fop” look (knee britches and buckle shoes) he sometimes wore didn’t work too well for him at times.
MC Escher says
I understood it to mean G# five octaves from the bottom one on a piano.
Johnny Concheroo says
http://i.imgur.com/WxZnDsr.jpg
Moose the Mooche says
Let’s Dance did well for an album you’re Not Supposed To Like.
Pretty astonishing that after all that hoo-ha in 2013, The Next Day couldn’t even beat Space Oddity.
Great fun.
Mike_H says
Something has just struck me regarding Mr Bowie.
Now I’m wondering if this has been commented on anywhere or if I’ve accidentally stumbled upon something.
Bowie’s first (self-titled) Deram album was released in 1967. His fourth, “Ziggy Stardust..”, where he finally became a star, was released in 1972. Five years later. The opening track of that album is “Five Years” and in it he sings “Five years, that’s all we’ve got.”
I wonder, was he considering it his last throw of the dice in his quest for success?
Tiggerlion says
You may have something there. Apart from being a one hit wonder with Space Oddity, he was a flop. Even Hunky Dory hadn’t sold at that point.
Baron Harkonnen says
Five years of what?, could he have been singing about if he was singing about the last five years. He`d hardly experienced that much `Fame`, he`d have to wait `til 1975 for that.