I’m very seriously thinking of taking a step back from my career and trying to focus more on what I love – family, music, reading and writing. Essentially becoming a househusband with a day job that provides pocket money, rather than a career man.
Continues in comments.
JustB says
Continued…
I’m lucky that I can consider this, since Mrs Bob has a good career and earns slightly more than I do. However, this move – if I have the guts for it – will substantially affect our houehold income. I’m currently a senior manager (assistant head) in a large secondary school and have realised that it’s not what I want my life to be about. It just eats me alive, and all the ambition and vocation that got me here has evaporated in the reality of having done the “senior” thing for nearly four years and realising that all the targets I work toward I don’t believe in and all the people who hold me to them I don’t respect or want to follow.
I’m simply not a manager. I’m not resilient enough any more – every day I go into school with my heart pounding and a sick butterflies feeling in my stomach. Even though my head tells me I’m doing well, I’m so anxious, all the time. I have that feeling right now, just typing this! I can’t do this any more.
All the things I love and value aren’t related to work – so I need to make my life about those, and just work to bring in enough money to be able to do them. I plan to still work in education – teachers are unemployable in anything else – but possibly not the state sector and possibly not full-time.
Does anyone have any experience of consciously simplifying and taking a step back from the career to focus elsewhere? What do I need to consider that I haven’t considered?
JustB says
Ha, slight ambiguity above: “my head tells me I’m doing well”. As in, my headteacher.
My actual head, as well as my heart, tells me that if I spend a third of my life experiencing this constant level of anxiety, I’ll drop stone fucking dead.
Jim Cain says
Ever thought about forming a covers band? I don’t mean just playing pubs, but a proper professional act doing weddings, conferences and stuff. I know a couple of people who’ve earned enough from that to get by without doing a day job.
JustB says
Actually I have! It’s harder than you might think – people generally just want to do originals! I might look more carefully into it, though. Thanks Jim.
Jim Cain says
Oh, and I know the feeling you describe. There are few things worse than finding yourself in a job you hate. Unfortunately, I am the sole earner in my family, so I don’t have the luxury of choice. I can’t even jump ship to another job, because I work in sales and can’t afford to live without commission for 3 months while I train, and you can never really rely on the ‘on target earnings’ people put on their job ads.
Still, given the situation many in the UK find themselves in, I’m grateful to be employed.
JustB says
Yes, me too. I know how lucky I am, and in many ways it makes me feel worse that I’m ungrateful enough to hate it.
SteveT says
Your post touched a nerve Bob. Whilst I don’t yet feel your despair or anxiety I have fleeting thoughts of doing something I would much rather do. Trouble is that is mostly opening a record shop and there just isn’t enough money in it. As I am nearer to retirement age than you are I do start thinking just ride it out and see what happens.
The job I have is secure, I am successful in it and it is quite interesting for much of the time. The trouble is I can’t escape the feeling that my industry is changing and time for the young up and coming people to take the reins.
Gatz says
Not all of us are managers. I’m not. I recognise your symptoms from my days in retail, where I earned a pittance to feel that bad. By the time I quit I hadn’t slept for 6 months, was seeing a counsellor, and had chest pains. In the end it was a single panic attack that made me leave. You couldn’t possibly pay me enough to go through that again.
One day I just woke up and realised that nobody was ‘making’ go through the hell I was but me. I had no savings, and no safety net (as it happens I was lucky enough to walk into a job which suits me much better a week through an interview a week after I left) but when it came down to it, if I hadn’t gone the consequences for my mental and physical health could have been disasterous. Take whatever you like into consideration, but the situation you describe could destroy you, and then all other matters would be irrelevant.
DrJ says
MrsDrJ is going into the second year of what’s likely to be four years of a PhD and an associated book. The household finances have taken a hit no doubt (we ended up moving house, for instance) but it makes you consider the worth and value of things. What price do you put on happiness and doing what you want? How much would you pay for that? I like my job, and it’s secure, and we realised that although it’d be a bit of a stretch we still had the luxury of being able to do it. I’m happy that she’s doing something she’s always wanted to do. Yes there’s less in the coffers, but we’re better off in many ways.
The other thing I’d consider is whether you would like to stay at work if there was someway of doing it without the anxiety or stress? Do you need to talk to some kind of work psychologist? If you’ve reached a point though where irrespective of how you manage the anxiety, you still want to leave your job, then it would seem to me that you’ve made up your mind.
I figure if I can still afford Spotify each month, then I’m sorted.
Getthenet says
Last year, on the day of my 50 th birthday, I decided I’d had enough in my well paid corporate sales job and handed my notice in.
I was utterly bored with it, in meetings all I heard was white noise, blah, blah, blah. It was driving me mad, I felt like I was in a straight jacket. There are so many things I’m interested in and none of them were in any way related to my work.
What made it difficult was that it was well paid, with perks ( car, expenses, etc). Had a good boss. But I couldn’t face being bored.
Anyway, I had the summer and autumn off and had a great time. I’m now self employed, in sales. Although the work itself is not perfect, I’m away from the corporate bullshit and please myself when I work and when I do what I want.
Good luck.
JustB says
Thanks @gatz. I know. My mental health has been on a real slide lately, and I’m starting a course of therapy this week to try and understand better what I need to do.
I never thought I’d be a manager. I was the lazy, arty kid at school, clever enough, but with no work ethic. Over the years I learned how to work and found a job I loved that turned quickly into a very good career, to my genuine surprise.
I simply can’t re-locate why I ever loved it now. All I’m left with is this bubbling mess of fear and loathing (alas, not in Las Vegas). I think I rode the career advancement thing on a bit of a wave, delighted to find it happening – being promoted is great for the ego – and then when things settled down, just went… WTF? This isn’t me. I’m here by accident and I can’t deal with it.
adman says
Bob, you are exactly where I was seven years ago. I had worked hard to get to assistant headteacher in a large inner city special school. Did all the courses, got the NPQH, bought the suit, had my own office, was earning more than I ever had before, seemingly had the world at my feet… I hated every single minute of it.
Reading this: “I’m simply not a manager. I’m not resilient enough any more – every day I go into school with my heart pounding and a sick butterflies feeling in my stomach. Even though my head tells me I’m doing well, I’m so anxious, all the time. I have that feeling right now, just typing this! I can’t do this any more. ” Takes me back to exactly where I was. I feel for you, I really do.
I quit my ‘good job,’ signed up with a supply agency, and took stock. Yes, it looked like I had shot myself in the foot in terms of my ‘career,’ but it gave me much needed breathing space. I worked supply for a couple of years, then I was lucky enough to get a short-term contract in a really lovely school. This became my current job. I’m not a manager, I lead a couple of subjects, I teach my Year 5s and I’m enjoying ‘just’ teaching.
I’m not in the business of giving advice, but we pass this way but once. Don’t carry on doing it, if there is a chance that it could drag you down and make you unwell. (Btw, if you want to talk more via email, or even on the phone then let me know.)
Best
Adam.
JustB says
I had you in mind, @adman – I remember us discussing your down-shift when we met a couple of years ago 🙂
It’s great to hear from someone doing, effectively, what I want to do. I just want to know it can be done and that I can still be employable even if I’ve “failed” at being a manager.
adman says
Well somehow, partly through luck I suspect, I have gone from a work situation where I felt as if I wasn’t at all valued (or even respected, frankly) to a situation where I feel totally the opposite. On a good day I might even say I feel loved (but that might be a bit sick-buckety).
It can be done.
Kid Dynamite says
I would love to do this. Not because I hate my job – I don’t – but because there are creative things I want to do that just get squeezed out by a daily commute. I’ve finished three short stories in approx eighteen months, in snatched half hours here and there. There ain’t no novel getting written that way. Like Jim, though, I’m by far the major earner in our household and we would really struggle without that monthly cash injection.
So my advice would be to go for it, as long as you are 100% sure all your sums are rock solid. I’d also think about some insurance for Mrs Bob if you haven’t already, so you’d have some protection if, God forbid, anything happened that meant that that income dried up.
Do teaching qualifications expire? Presumably you would be able to return full time to the profession if it didn’t work out?
JustB says
Hi KD, no, qualified teacher status (QTS) doesn’t expire once you’ve passed the induction year following qualification. However, QTS isn’t required in academies and free schools in any case – because why would you want to ensure your kids’ teachers are qualified? *eye roll*
People are leaving state teaching in droves. I don’t blame them. Soon we won’t be able to staff any schools at all – even mine, an “outstanding” school with great results – can’t fill posts now. One day, when schools are full of nothing but unqualified “cover supervisors” and supply teachers from overseas, something might change. But meantime…
Sorry. Total tangent there.
Bingo Little says
That doesn’t surprise me either.
I’ve described my old job below: it was very full on, the whole nine yards of corporate chaos. But my wife and I had dinner a few years ago with a very dear old friend of mine who was working in an extremely troubled state school. His working life made our look like an absolute cakewalk, principally because what he was doing actually mattered, and if he did a bad job or slacked off young lives could be wrecked. I take my hat off to the teachers who do those jobs, I really do.
Getthenet says
Great post by Gatz.
If you can, grab the bull by the horns and do it.
Bingo Little says
I don’t have an experience of stepping back to the extent you discuss above, but I did adjust my career when my oldest kid was born.
I spent my twenties and early thirties working for a media focused law firm. The hours were fairly mental and the job all consuming. Hundred hour weeks were not uncommon, work had to be perfect (I’m talking not a comma out of place) and you were expected to be available 24/7. In my worst ever week in that job I came into work on the Monday at 9am, went home at 5am, then did the same for another four days. Then worked on the Saturday until 1am, and the Sunday until 10pm. I’m not talking sat around waiting for stuff to happen, I’m talking working as hard as is physically and mentally possible, racing the clock for 20 hours at a go and barely having time to eat your meals off your lap. I can vividly recall walking down the corridors late at night and thinking that the lights seemed to be going up and down.
I shared offices with partners who never saw their kids and complained that their marriages had gone to shit. I was fortunate that I’d met my wife in that office and, although she moved on quicker than I did, she knew what the job involved and supported me all the way. For nearly a decade we couldn’t make firm evening plans, and if I wasn’t working at the weekend, or even if I wasn’t all that busy at work, I would sleep as much as possible, just in case it suddenly went mental again.
The funny thing was though; I absolutely loved that job. The work was top class, interesting clients and issues, the people I worked for were barking mad but huge characters who you could learn loads from, and I was pushed every single day. It was a harsh environment, but that’s what I loved about it – I’m an ascetic type and I was really, really good at what I was doing.
Nonetheless, I always promised myself that I would quit as soon as we had kids. So I did. I handed in my notice when our daughter was two months old and moved to my current role. I still work reasonably hard – it’s a US company and the time difference means lots of evening calls – but I don’t work anywhere near as hard, no one tells me where to be or when, the deadlines are always softer, and I’m under very little scrutiny. I have to self motivate and the role is less about crunching through huge volumes of work under high pressure and much more about building an effective internal network.
Why is any of this relevant? Because I miss my old job. It was a perfect fit for me and the move felt a bit like leaving the SAS and joining the Boy Scouts: life is nice and cushy, but every now and then I miss the sound of bullets hitting flesh (if you’ll allow me to torture a metaphor). I know there are opportunities and experiences I’d have had in my old job that I’ll never get now, and that’s an itch that I’ll probably never be able to scratch.
I don’t regret the move at all; my relationship with my family is the single most important thing there is, and I could never have been the type of father I wanted to be while doing the old job. I also do love where I work and have a huge respect for the company. But don’t kid yourself that you might not miss the higher velocity of your current life. You can’t have it all, but be prepared to harbour a modicum of selfish desire for the best of both worlds, even if the move does prove to have been the right one for you. The head knows you can’t have everything, but that particular memo doesn’t always reach the heart.
Weighed against all of that, there is nothing more important than your kids, and you’re highly unlikely to reach your death bed and wish you’d spent more time at work and less time with them.
Bargepole says
Things to consider – apologies if stating the obvious here….
Can you afford it – do a budget, and also see if you can cut costs (not easy – maybe childcare costs?) – things like electricity/gas may go up of you’re at home all day in the winter.
How does your wife feel about the extra responsibility of being the sole breadwinner. Does she support your idea.
How would you earn money long term
Is there anything your employer can do to help you ‘feel better’ – health support/counselling, a different role, reduced hours?
Have you spoken to your GP if your health Is being affected?
Just a few random thing – hope they might help.
Jim Cain says
Well worth considering those points. My wife giving up work to study has been a major cause of tension in our marriage. I’m earning more than I ever have in my life, and yet I’ve never been poorer. Cycling to work on a rattly old bike, fretting about the finances 24 /7, and having to borrow money off my parents. Things break in the house and I can’t afford to fix them. It’s like a cheap, suburban version of ‘Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai’. Sometimes, when I’m tired and stressed, I resent this massively. At other times I can see the bigger picture. The studying is temporary and will lead to well-paid employment, and I will be able to spend money on trainers and booze.
JustB says
Thanks all. Really appreciate the input.
@bingo-little Sometimes I do just wonder whether it’s a current employer thing. But then I think about a future doing what I do, and the scrutiny and targets are the same everywhere. Schools are accountable to Ofsted and the league tables, both of which are broken. You live and die by these bullshit measures. It makes me want to scream. So yeah, it’s not the intensity of the job that I hate. It’s the job.
@bargepole I wouldn’t give up work entirely. I would still earn a well above average wage if I went back to the classroom – and to avoid the bullshit described in the previous para, I might well go private. So we can definitely afford it – there would be less, er, luxury but I would be happier.
My wife is in two minds. She’s not by nature a spontaneous YOLO person: she’s careful and cautious. She sees I’m miserable, but thinks I’ll snap out of it and possibly regret making the change. She might be right. She loves her job and has it in her to go all the way: she’s already quite senior in a large corporation and is incredibly bright and very hard-working. It’s not the money that worries her: it’s change in general.
I’m concerned about making a mental health disclosure at work. My boss would almost certainly be supportive but I don’t want to fuck my chance of a reference. “Bob was pretty good but then turned into a total pussy. Don’t employ the big crybaby.”
I will speak to my GP if the forthcoming therapy doesn’t help. We’ll see. I’ve been medicated in the past and felt a bit sluggish and stupid.
Bingo Little says
If it’s definitely the job, then you have to move if at all possible. Life is too short.
Given that you sound like you actually kind of enjoy teaching, but hate management, maybe steering your career back to the classroom would be a good idea.
I know quite a few teachers, and ex teachers. As I understand it, while there are the same pressures everywhere to an extent, there’s also a pretty wide variance between what the role demands of you depending on the type and location of school. And inner city is about as tough as it gets.
JustB says
I love actually teaching. I love my subject, I love actually being in the classroom. And it’s been 11 years in London comps, never stopped loving that part.
The tricky thing is going back to the main pay scale. I worry that I’m now too expensive to be employable as just a bog standard teacher. @adman, did you just end up saying that you’re happy to go back to M-scale? U-scale teachers are almost unemployable as far as I can tell: too pricey.
adman says
I was on the Leadership scale, but had already done the “threshold” stuff. When I went from supply (and 2 years on supply money was a struggle, granted) back into full time permanent I was employed on UPS1. I have since moved to UPS2, but that is dependent upon making a ‘strategic’ contribution to the school (I lead Science, History, and Eco Schools.) I was earning about ten grand a year more on Leadership, but we took the hit.
JustB says
Yes, I was on UPS1 before I went up to L-scale about three years ago. Did you find it harder to get interviews, being on the upper scale?
adman says
I think there might be an element of that, yes. I suppose I was quite lucky to find a suitable situation. Basically the school I went to needed to find a quick replacement for a teacher who had begun to let them down quite badly. They liked me & I got in. Once I was in they wanted to keep me. I think that is the beauty of temporary contracts – if the school can see your worth, then they are more likely to want to hang on to you.
Schools might question why you want to step back, but I am sure you can make a good case for it as you apply for things. Personal circumstances change all the time, and schools are always looking for good teachers.
LordTed says
I took the decision to do exactly this at the age of 51, a couple of years ago. From a senior, very well paid but exhausting and utterly pointless Financial services job with a long commute, regulation blackberry etc I now work – of my own choice – just 2 days/week in a retail warehouse ( started as a temporary Christmas job, then carried on ) and the rest of the week is my own. Initially its great to gloat at everyone else, get all of those jobs done that you’ve had an excuse not to tackle and relax in the garden with a book, but what then? If you’re not focused on something to achieve, then it can feel like you’re just ‘existing’, albeit in the relatively stress free environment. I should declare that I can’t relate to the downshift in finances, financially we have no worries due to my savings/investments ( ……pauses for thought and runs off to check impact of Chinese stock market crash…), and wife’s earnings, so life in terms of material possessions etc is not impacted – and I know how lucky I am in this respect. Of course to my ex colleagues my lifestyle has been impacted as I can no longer compete with the second holiday homes, and maybe won’t take all flights as business class , but that is irrelevant.
I’d say the main consideration is finding a clear purpose to use your time, and focus. You might know very weel what you’re moving away from, but be just as clear what you’re moving to. Don’t let the days drift away – they will if you let them. My current solution is online study courses ( free with Coursera and others), and going to the gym. These both add discipline and a routine to the rest of the stuff – the reading, listening to music, taking walks , that fit in the gaps in the routine. And the part time job gives a couple of fixed points in the week which I’ve also found necessary.
retropath2 says
Bargepoles para 3 is the clincher, I feel. (Unless she comes next for reappraisal, wanted or realised or neither……..) Sorry.
Shit happens.
The problem with looking at the threadbare and weedridden grass you are on is that it may look green from the distance of the other side of the paddock. I’d hang on in there, maybe discussing hours/role reduction with your head.
Beggars have been all too often latterday choosers.
My experience was hitting a wall hard, very hard, burn out and breakdown, at work and losing my wife within a very short space. OK, I had been in denial of each for some time. Back at work now, on slightly reduced hours, and in a new sustaining relationship, and I’m more or less dandy. Don’t need the medication that saved me either.
JustB says
Sorry Retro, I didn’t really understand some of that about my other half.
I’m not sure I buy into the idea that you should stick with the status quo in case something else is just as bad. That’s just a recipe for a life of wasted inertia, isn’t it? Don’t act! You might regret it!
retropath2 says
Just checking Mrs Bob was up to speed before you told her the Afterword said jump.
Who said owt about the status quo? I was saying change, if you are able, the current situation. Throwing it ALL away can sometimes end in tears.
JustB says
Sorry, retro – misconstrued your post through not quite understanding it! 🙂
Getthenet says
If your miserable Bob, change it. Don’t be afraid to act, life is short.
JustB says
Thanks, @getthenet. This is increasingly how I feel.
Freddy Steady says
Bob, a couple of thoughts from me though my situation was slightly different.
Eight years ago my wife and I adopted two boys, I gave up my (reasonably) well paid job to become the main carer , my wife earned quite a bit more than me so like you it made sense and we were able to cope financially. I didn’t take a part time job at the time (I do work now) and did the house husband thing full time.
It’s hard work. Regardless of seeing your children grow up, it’s hard work. Not so much in the physical sense but more in the fact that a lot of your day is spent in mundane routine, the cleaning, the ironing, the shopping etc. It quickly does become well, dull.
You’ll get comments from your mates about sitting around watching Sky Sports News (or in your case Men and Motors…..) but I felt guilty if I did even five minutes of that..there was always something else that needed cleaning.
If your wife has a bad day then you’re likely to cop it too, two very different roles do sometimes create tension.
I am painting a bit of a bleak picture here but a lot of it is positive. You’ll get to see your kids more and from a practical point all the housework is done which leaves you more time for fun in evenings and weekends.
And as I say our situations are different. I think your kids are older than mine were (and probably a lot more settled and well behaved) and you talk about getting some form of job which will get you out of the house.
It worked for us though I’ve only just returned to work in the last year.. I now work as a TA supporting a couple of children. Walk to work and can be home by 3.30 so still have time to do the domestic stuff!
Good luck in whatever you do but not being happy at work is a killer. Happy to be in touch by email too.
“Freddy”
JustB says
Thanks Freddy. I know myself well enough to know that I couldn’t be a full-time househusband. For one thing, I’m not tidy enough! I need to be reasonably busy, so I would definitely still work – absolute minimum would be 3 days a week. The gained time would be spent focusing on music and writing: sorting out gigs, PR, organising the selling of band merch etc, as well as the fun creative part.
I realise that if my other half is going to be the much larger breadwinner, rather than an equal partner, my responsibilities around the house would step up. I already do all the shopping and most of the cooking – Mrs B is competent but hates it; I’m good, and love it. We have a cleaner, so that would probably change, but I don’t mind the thought of spending a chunk of one of my days off doing what she does. I guess I’d have to get on the laundry, though – that’s the only chore I don’t do much of, and I loathe it! But I could swallow that happily if that was the price!
Childcare isn’t really an issue – my girls are 7 and 9, and are out all day at school. I would like to work locally so that I can pick up and drop off, taking them back to work with me if necessary.
I don’t want to drop everything: I want to rebalance. You’re very wise in suggesting that I wouldn’t much like being a full-on househusband, though! 🙂
davebigpicture says
My wife and I both had demanding jobs. She worked mainly from home and I freelanced wherever there was work, UK and Europe. We had two young children. The strain on time was becoming intolerable as I was often away and she worked into the evening due to pressure of work and time zone differences. During several discussions I suggested that I would give up work and she would concentrate on her career. This was dismissed out of hand as she believed I would do bugger all during the day and she would still have to cook/clean etc after a day at work.
Not the same situation but if you’re going to take a step back career wise are you going to do all the domestic stuff yourself or at least more than half?
In the end, I changed direction a bit, my wife gave up work to do my books and things are better although I’d still like to work less. To sort of echo Jim’s point: I got up this morning and left wife and kids still in bed. I will spend the day working on my own while they please themselves. Some days I resent the fact that all the responsibility for earning money falls to me. Mostly, I don’t mind but some days I feel very put upon. Your wife may sometimes feel the same.
JustB says
Hi Dave – like I say, I certainly wouldn’t look to give up work entirely. Just not be quite so career focused. Right now, our domestic responsibilities are as follows: I shop, cook and fix things. Naturally enough I also do all the childcare during the school holidays. She does laundry and the school run/kid admin. We both clean a bit, and the cleaner does the big clean. I don’t mind cleaning, so taking that on won’t be too awful. I do hate laundry (specifically ironing), but can suck it up.
So in my brave new world, I suppose I could see it being like this: Me – shopping, cooking, fixing things, a proper clean once a week, school run/a bit of kid admin, washing and drying, earning a bit of money. Don’t mind any of that. Her: ironing, kid admin, earning money.
Twang says
Really good posts and OP Bob. In my case I had a really senior job, posh office in Paris, international travel….I hated it, and it was really beginning to get me down. Then we discovered Twang Jr was imminent, and we decided we were moving back to the UK. At the same time I decided I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do, but I was pretty certain it wasn’t what I had been doing. I took 5 months off, built prams and cots, decorated the small bedroom etc, did the whole night feeds trip, and eventually decided I ought to do something so I got a contract as a freelancer helping a local authority sort out their customer service (from bottom quartile failing councils to LEA shortlist for most improved award, people ?) and loved it. Being reconnected with actually delivering something useful sorted me out. Now I find increasingly I am dissatisfied again as the firm I do a lot of work for like using me for super complicated psycho client type assignments….and it’s no fun. My sensible head says suck it up. and age will fairly shortly consign me to the scrap heap for that line of endeavour anyway. But my enthusiasm is at a low point again. I’m coping by taking a bit more time off – just had a coupe of months break, and starting to think, with heavy heart, about getting a new gig.
Is there some way you can make it more of a flexible thing focussing on the bit you like, rather like I did?
My only other contribution is that a mate of mine did exactly what you’re suggesting and the impact in his relationship became a problem – the “you’re sitting at home doing nothing” syndrome. So he got a low paid / low stress / out at 5pm job which drove him mad…lately he’s back in a more corporate role, hating every moment. Poor lad.
I think the general view it’s good to do this kind of change once debt free, cost base reduced, financial cushion in place etc – being skint and happy is a hard trick to pull off.
JustB says
Thanks Twang.
The only debt we have is the mortgage. That comes in at just over half the OH’s monthly salary, and we always do fixed rates, even though they’re a bit more expensive (we like the predictability). We’ve saved quite carefully, so there is a cushion in case of disaster, and I’m finding that the only thing I want to spend any money on these days is band-related stuff (not equipment – I’ve got enough of that to last me til I die), which is generally very small fry and easy to save for.
Mrs B is currently (slightly) part time, but still earns the same as me. If she went full-time she’d earn a bit more, and likely get promoted quite quickly because she’s extremely well thought-of at work, and loves what she does. So there’s that.
The money doesn’t particularly worry me – we’d have to be more careful, but I don’t actually mind that. One of the things that I’ve got significantly less joy out of over the years is the buying of *stuff*. My tastes are getting less expensive, not more, and I’ve had far too many instances of purchase-anticlimax over the years to get too excited about the joy of possessions. I need books and instruments and a computer to pursue the things I love. I’ve got all those things. The good part is the doing, not the buying.
Bingo Little says
There’s a lot to be said for keeping your tastes simple. It leaves you a hell of a lot more agility in how you live your life.
davebigpicture says
I’ll shut up in a moment.
I didn’t mention above that my wife worked part time and part of the disagreement over what to do was that she didn’t want to work full time as her job was demanding enough as a part time role. There was no getting past that for us.
JustB says
Yeah, my wife would love to work full time, but worries she’d see less of the kids than she does now. She’d still see far more of them than I do now, though.
Rob C says
You really must follow your inner feelings here, and you’re lucky enough to be able to do so. You’re obviously in a place, career wise, that is not right for you and if you don’t follow your heart it will start to negatively effect other areas of your life too. You have your music, and a loving family. Take it from there and above all, go for it ! All the best.
chiz says
Free time v disposable income. I’ve spent a lot of time considering that one. In my 20s and early 30s I was very much on the freedom side of the occasion. The last 15 years have been about head down accumulation and some enjoyment of the pleasures of wealth, but the plans is to go back the other way five years from now. Like you I can’t imagine me not working, and choosing to sit around the house all day sounds like a recipe for despair to me.
My brother has got it right. He left the commute and the 30 staff and set up a business at home. He used to see his kids for 10 minutes a day. Now he’s there when they get in from school. He’s much happier and not much worse off. It can be done.
chiz says
Equation!
Black Celebration says
I made a similar change a couple of years ago @disappointmentbob and now I’m glad I did it. I am the main breadwinner so I couldn’t compromise too much on earnings, although when I chucked in my job I had nothing at all lined up. I just had similar feelings to you – stomach churning, no respect for the people I worked with and I didn’t believe in what I was doing. Colleagues were put under undignified and relentless pressure and I didn’t like that at all.
So I set up my own business which brings in money, but nowhere near enough for the family to live on. But now it’s two years later and I haven’t borrowed a penny and it’s turning a small profit – and there seems to be real new work coming up for it. I do this while also working a full time in a sales job which on the face of it is similar to the one I gave up – but the people are much nicer and I get to travel more around New Zealand, which I love doing. I actually enjoy this day job and they have no problem with my side business.
Don’t think that this was a master plan or anything, I just had to stop what I was doing for my own health. Money-wise it was a mistake but thinking about that old job makes those awful feelings return. It was more than Mondayitis, believe me.
If I have any advice to give, it would be not to make any absolute rules – just see what happens. You’ve got to keep life interesting and if I wore a hat I’d take it off to you.
JustB says
Thanks, BC. Really appreciate the wise words – from you and everyone. 🙂
colrow26 says
Bob, Ive had to skip some of the later posts as Im on my lunch but……a few years ago my wife was in a similar situation to yours. Was Assistant Head at Special school in Manchester and safter working 30 years and with increasing frustration at move away from actual teaching and more need to manage she quit. She had a lovely 9 month break but then signed up to an agency helping students with learning difficulties (autism, dispraxia & discalculia etc) who are studying for University degrees. She loves it, she can choose how many students she has on her books and can arrange her own timetable and probably works about 12-15 hours a week.
Not sure this is what you have in mind but hope it helps. All the best,
Sitheref2409 says
I don’t think I’m in exactly the same situation as you but…
I have a corporate job, in HR. It’s stressful, combative and takes a different kind of person to do it. I enjoy it, not least because of my colleagues and team mates. I also get paid well to do it, which helps.
My dearly beloved however works for the Federal Government. She could earn 2 or 3X her current package if she came to the private sector – except she has a sense of patriotic mission. No sarcasm, she genuinely does. She just got “offered” a new gig, which doesn’t look great in terms of organizational dynamics. We think we’re in a financial position that she can walk away, get qualified as an Executive Coach, and take up a second career.
We’re lucky. Both middle aged; our only major expenses are the mortgage (and associated house costs) and my child support. We’re able to take stock of our lives and focus on trying to do the things that we enjoy and make us happy. That meant taking a salary cut for me to come back to my current role because I was stinkin’ miserable in my last role.
On reflection, the older I get the more quality of life matter. I did my hard yards earlier in my career. I enjoy working hard and I enjoy the stress. The moment the way I feel about my job intrudes on my domestic life, I have to think about reassessing. We’re very happy together, having only gotten together later in life, and we share the same values on what to prioritize.
A long roundabout way of saying: find out what’s important and do what you can to support and not undermine it.
Hannah says
I hear you. I spent years scooting up the corporate ladder and it never quite felt like “me”. And then once I had kids, I started resented the time I spent commuting and the long days in the office. I’d have much rather been at home with the kids more. Having said that, I knew I didn’t want to be a full-time housewife either – I needed a little variety in my life, a little grown-up company occasionally plus I’m utterly crap at housework.
Today, I’ve reorganised my life so that I’ve got a much better balance. I have three (!) part-time jobs; working in marketing, doing a little PR and teaching piano. It’s a lot to juggle, but I get to do the school run every day and I set my own hours. I’m also lucky to have a supportive partner on a decent wage.
I need to be more careful about making time for the stuff I love – reading, making music, sewing, as that still goes by the wayside.
Good luck figuring it all out x
Freddy Steady says
Bob….re the laundry.
I actually quite like ironing! Just stick some music on and the time simply flies by, honest!
ianess says
After a certain point, accumulating *stuff* is really not that important.
One piece of advice I’d give us that the current situation may not be as bad as it appears and the alternative may not be as good as it appears.
I’d recommend reading ‘What Colour is my Parachute.’ and another book called, I think, ‘What Job Do I Want to Do?’ These will be very helpful in assessing what your future path should be. They also help refine your thinking.
A brother-in-law was a Head Teacher and took early retirement as, IMO, he was not suited to the man-management demands of the role. He now does a few days a month teaching and earns surprisingly good money for that and feels completely stress-free.
Please feel free to email me Bob as I have had a rather varied career myself and would be only too willing to help out if I can.
Twang says
Couldn’t agree more on “stuff”. About 6 months ago I was hacked off at work, and to validate the shit I was dealing with and felt I splurged nearly a grand on toys and music stuff I neither needed, wanted, or used when they arrived. I have subsequently flogged it all off at a loss and have embarked on a campaign of de-cluttering and stuff removal. Dickhead. Never again.
Another good book BTW is “The Empty Raincoat” which looks at what you’re describing in a slightly academic but engaging way. Inevitably, it’s available for 1p on Dodgers.
JustB says
Thanks, Ian – I really appreciate it.
Jackthebiscuit says
FWIIW. I have written before about my work trials & tribulations, but can I tell my tale (yet again – I will try & keep it brief).
I am a 59 year old man who has only ever had 2 jobs, & they were both jobs that I wanted. I joined the Royal Navy straight from school & served 25 years, then I got a job in a small gas turbine power station & things seemed sweet.
The power station was coming to the end of its life & a decision was made to build a large biomass burning power station. I applied for a position & was taken on, & a lot was made of my excellent knowledge of Generators, motors, switchgear & electrical distribution systems.
Everything looked good, but an internal rejigging of staff meant I had nothing to do with my core skill set & was going to be predominantly employed driving heavy plant loading wood into a giant shredder.
I was on a training course, I had the cab at full height extension. about 3 tons of logs in the grab, with the grab hanging over a brand new vehicle (worth about £150,000). The grab open button was very close to the other controls. My heart was pounding, I was struggling to focus, my mouth was dry, I felt dreadful with a massive feeling of impending doom/disaster.
I managed to unload the load, & then I lowered the cab & clocked out.
When I got home, I phoned my GP & asked for the earliest appointment I could get, luckily there was a cancellation & I got in the next day. Had a long chat with the Doctor (who was far more sympathetic than I imagined she would be) & she signed me off for 2 weeks.
During my consultation with her, she asked me if it was work related or were there any other factors. I told her it was totally work related & she said that she could sign me off for 6 months, but if the problem is not resolved, then the problems would still be there & I would be back at square one.
Cutting a long story short now. I became unemployed for the first time in my life last year, 3 weeks before my 58th birthday. I was also getting married the day after my birthday, so the timing was not good.
My wife Carol has a good job, & I am in receipt of 2 pensions, so while we are feeling the pinch financially, I am fully aware that things could be a lot worse.
I have enough NI contributions made that I qualify for a full state pension, although it has been put back until I am 66 – bastards.
I have applied for lots of jobs, & in 15 months I have had one interview. I cant see me getting another job in my field, so that more or less brings me to here. Now here’s a thing, I feel (mentally) a lot better, – physically is a different story – big (huge) weight gain, but the panic/anxiety attacks, seem to have gone.
Theoretical question I often ask myself – if I could would I go back to the well paid job that I had but continued to feel how I did, or be in the position I am now?
I would not go back to my previous job/position/company for double the money & more.
Don’t want to get all deep & philosophical on you, but we are only here once, its not a rehearsal, (add your cliche of choice).
Good luck with whatever choices you make, & if you can bring youself to do it, let us know how you get on.
Regards, Les (JTB)
Baskerville Old Face says
A job without happiness or satisfaction is drudgery. If it’s affecting your health and wellbeing, then a change of some sort is required. No job is worth it if it’s making you ill.
The fact that you’re sharing this problem and looking for support indicates that you may already be committed to change. The key conversation to have is with your family. Then you’ll know what to do.
Is it risky? Possibly. Is it the right thing to do? Almost certainly. Can you do something else? Definitely.
What to do next is a nice new challenge in itself. You will have numerous options to explore – how good is that? Whatever you do, bear in mind that it should be something you look forward to doing, to the extent that it gets you out of bed in the morning. Good luck!
ratbiter says
My wife and I made an agreement a few years ago: if one of us is fundamentally unhappy, either at home or with work, then we’d both do whatever it took to change the situation. So when I was really unhappy at work, and I could see that it was beginning to affect my mental health, we agreed to move to another country and I would take a lower paid job, despite the fact that she was happy in her job. And when, a few years later, I loved my job but my wife was in another country with the two kids, and I could only see them (and help her) once a month, we agreed to move to another country so that we could live together again.
So I suppose my point is this: you have to do what makes you happy. Life is too short to hate your job and have it affecting your mental health.
Ahh_Bisto says
My one piece of advice – much good advice already given – is to make sure you keep your family (which I know is very important to you) as much in the loop as possible. This especially includes kids who will learn from the choices and decisions you make because in their small world you loom large. When you make changes to your life your internal monologue about what’s going on needs to be channelled into an ongoing dialogue with your family. Sometimes this is hard because – and I think this predominantly a male thing – you want to appear to them at all times like you’re in control and you know what you’re doing and if you don’t then you at least want to show them that you know how to fix it. Ultimately if you don’t communicate the reality and only project the aspiration then you will start to lie; both to yourself and to your loved ones.
millymollymandy says
If you’re disillusioned with a leadership role in a state school, you might want to consider some of the other educational alternatives. You probably know a lot of these, but especially if you’re thinking of part-time or a portfolio approach, there may be some in here you could explore:
https://targetjobs.co.uk/sites/targetjobs.co.uk/files/public/Education_Alternatives_2015.pdf
My other half retrained as a teacher (a big mid-career downshift) which he enjoyed for a while but left when he couldn’t take any more of his leadership team. He now works in the educational charity sector, which has its ups and downs but is probably a better fit.
I’ve also downshifted in the past, and ended up in my perfect job – careers adviser. Ironically, a new boss has meant that they’ve changed my role and I’m now … a manager again (what I originally escaped from). Unfortunately, this time I’m old enough to have to think twice about starting again and giving up on a decent final salary pension so I’m currently just making the best of it.
What I’m trying to say is, if you’re going to downshift, it might be better to do it when you’re young enough to try a different direction with the potential of re-establishing yourself in a good career later, or old enough to have already built up a decent financial cushion and just think, what the hell?
Ahh_Bisto says
Sorry to talk across MMM, but how the very devil are you?
Lovely to see you posting on here. If you’ve been around these parts but I’ve simply missed you, apologies.
millymollymandy says
Hello GravyMan! Great to see you still posting on here – your latest post had me seriously laughing out loud (LOL is so 2014, don’t you think?)
I’m still here, mostly lurking. Like a few round here, life has just got in the way (see job-change traumas above), but I think I’m coming out of mourning for my old, ideal job and just getting on with what’s a good, well-paid job, just not the perfect job it was a year ago.
On the big plus side, I’ve booted Mr Mandy out into a newly kitted out mega-shed in the garden, and I’ve taken over his old (indoor) workshop, now refitted as a sewing, computer and music room, far enough away from the neighbours to crank it up to 11, if the fancy takes me. I’m reconnecting with music in a way I haven’t done for years, so expect the odd post in future.
Jackthebiscuit says
Nice to see you back Triple M.
davidks says
I don’t have much to add, as all the above comments have covered the sensible advice.
All I would say is do what makes you and your family happy.
In my experience, kids want to see a happy dad who is there for them and support them. Money is good, but its not what kids look for.
You only live once, make it count.
All the best Bob.
Keep us updated
ianess says
Well said, David. I knew a friend who’d recently divorced, was short of dough as a result, and was upset that he could only afford a holiday on a caravan site with his 3 young boys. I told him they’d love being there with their Dad giving them his full attention and the last thing they’d notice was how much it had cost. He had a fantastic time with them.
welshbenny says
Nothing to add to what’s gone before Bob.
FWIW I think you’re doing the right thing to move. It’s clearly the job that’s the issue and it’s also affecting your health. There’s no better reason to move.
Phil Pirrip says
Seven days ago I sat in my boss’ office before he went on holiday, in a folder I had my carefully written letter of resignation ready to hand over. I chickened out. Partially because I’m not a huge risk-taker and also due to some strange loyalty to the chap and not wanting to ruin his hols. I settled for a frank discussion about leaving, the life changes following Mrs Phil’s cancer diagnosis and how stale and disillusioned I am. In return I received (admittedly) off the cuff suggestions about a possible sabbatical, changes in hours and offloading some work. All very admirable but ultimately unlikely to change how I feel about the place.
The symptoms listed by others, such as the nausea and insomnia, together with a loss of creativity, self-esteem and an increasing intolerance of colleagues are not going to go away unless I jack it in. I have no way of knowing how long Mrs Phil survive – could be a year, could be five or hopefully longer. I want to work, I need to work for my own sanity, but I’m increasingly conscious that our remaining time together must be productive. We’ve had the discussion, the budgets await and we are as one. I just need to do it.
I started receiving counselling a few months ago and whilst I can’t say it has been as effective as I’d hoped, it is helping to ask questions of myself that inform the big decisions – that resignation letter wouldn’t have been written two months ago even if it wasn’t handed over.
I guess what I’m saying Bob is, speak to your employer to see if they can help, undertake counselling, but most of all discuss it at length with your family. With their support, decisions are a whole lot easier. Good luck.
Martin S says
Blimey Phil. Wishing you and Mrs Phil all the very best in the world. It certainly sounds like a good time to do whatever it is you need to do.
Would you rule out a long sabbatical? Its certainly something I’m thinking about as a pre retirement “testing the water” option in a year or two. Taking the plunge doesn’t get any easier with age does it!
I hope you and Bob are in a better place before the year is out. (Not together obviously, that would be weird!)