There’s a lot going on in The White Album. It tells the tale of a dysfunctional, supremely talented family on the verge of a breakdown. Stretched out over four sides of vinyl, its troughs are as much part of the appeal as its peaks. I say ‘stretched’ but all the songs are pretty tight, staying under four minutes for the vast majority. Only one track is significantly longer and that’s not a song it’s a sound collage, a piece of avant garde art. I say ‘tight’ when some songs wander around aimlessly during those four minutes. I’m looking at you Bungalow Bill, Rocky Racoon and Don’t Pass Me By, all of which seem longer than they are.
The Afterword loves a poll. Let’s see if we can reach consensus on which side of The Beatles is the best.
There is a scoring mechanism, so please pay attention. You are allowed four votes. First place scores five points, second three, third two and fourth one.
To keep the thread lively make sure you show your reasoning and your workings out. Otherwise, each of your votes will have a point deducted. Bonus points will be awarded if your reasoning makes me laugh or makes me consider changing my mind.
My reasoning:
Side three is easily the most consistent. Each track is at least good to very good and there are no duffers. Long, Long, Long is bloody excellent, possibly the best song on the whole album. Mother Nature’s Son is also superb, probably Paul’s best contribution to The White Album and a template for his early solo career. Otherwise, he gets to play with the whole band on Birthday and Helter Skelter and seems to enjoy it very much. Side three can make a case for being the most energetic and lively, proper Rock side of vinyl of the sixties. Apart from the misery in Yer Blues, the sarcasm in Sexy Sadie, the aggression in Helter Skelter (they were trying to be louder than The Who) and the heartache in Long, Long, Long, it is a very happy side (!). Plus, there is the essential ingredient of a bell, possibly a cowbell, on Everybody’s Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey.
Side one is bookended by four excellent songs, Back In The USSR, Dear Prudence, While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Happiness Is A Warm Gun but between them, it sags. Side Two drags from Blackbird onwards and despite the ethereal beauty of Julia and the charm of I Will, never properly recovers. Side Four doesn’t really get going, no matter how fond I am of Savoy Truffle and Cry, Baby, Cry.
My vote:
1. 3
2. 1
3. 2
4. 4
Poll closes when I feel like totting up the score.
Thank you.
Rigid Digit says
None more Afterword:
A list
A poll
The HJHs
The opportunity to wax lyrical (and use long words I probably don’t understand).
Initial knee jerk is Side 1.
But side 2 houses Blackbird and (I may be alone here, but I like it) Rocky Raccoon.
Oh, hang on Helter Skelter on side 3?
I will have a ponder and return with a considered, nay definitive, answer
Bartleby says
Agree with your scoring of each side (3, 1, 2, 4) and much of your reasoning. Even if you go out of your way to avoid calling out the Revolution 9 shaped elephant dung in the room!
Tiggerlion says
Revolution 9 is not a song, it’s a sound collage, a piece of avant garde art.
Bartleby says
Whatever, it’s still cack.
Tiggerlion says
You haven’t listened to the mono mix under the influence of Marijuana, have you, @Bartleby? Mind you, neither have I but I’m reliably informed it will blow your mind.
Bartleby says
You’ve got me there Tigs. I’d rather hear a bit of Goat’s Head anyday!
Paul Wad says
Bit late to this, but I would go 3, 1, 2, 4 too. I’m a big Beatles fan and for the last few years my favourite Beatles song has been Everybody’s Got Something To Hide… It just sounds great with the volume right up.
retropath2 says
Expecting and deserving the put-down and derision expected, even due, but whilst having heard all the songs at some stage, Lord only knows where, why or how they segue together. What side? Why? Whatever! Many are cock, some are the dogs bollocks, not many. Overall? Does the majority of this site really still care?
Tiggerlion says
Speaking of cocks and dogs, they deliberately put all the creature songs on side two. Martha My Dear is about Paul’s sheep dog, Blackbird, Piggies, Racoon are obvious, dogs Do It In The Road and, little known fact here, Julia was also the name of John’s pet gerbil.
The Good Doctor says
I’m not taking sides…geddit? Ho ho!
Macca had the last word on this one ages ago:
Moose the Mooche says
Belay ye scurvy landlubbers, this be the Beatles Whoite Album, ye’ll walk the plank!
(sorry, wrong thread)
Mike_H says
Both sides are equally best.
Tiggerlion says
You’ve overlooked the other piece of vinly in all that white cardboard, Mike.
Way back, when I had proper records, I swear my White album had sides one and four on one disc and sides two and three on the other. Anyone else?
NigelT says
I don’t know about the White Album, but some double albums on the Polydor group of labels were issued that way – my Tommy and Electric Ladyland are 1/4 and 2/3, presumably so that you could stack them on an autochanger and just turn the two over together, the thought of which always appalled me. In reality, it was just a pain in the arse as you had to keep taking them in and out of the sleeves. I don’t think EMI ever did this, but happy to be proved wrong!
retropath2 says
I remember a lot of doubles had this “error” but your explanation seems very plausible.
MC Escher says
Songs In The Key Of Life vinly was cut as sides 1-4 and 2-3. I got it as soon as it came out so this might have been “corrected” on later pressings .
Moose the Mooche says
That wasn’t a mistake. It was Motown policy in the 70s. My Smokey Robinson and the Miracles Anthology triple goes 1-6 2-5 3-4.
MC Escher says
Wow. Imagine the drummer doing that as a count-off. Confuse all round.
Moose the Mooche says
Billy Cobham joins The Ramones.
Chrisf says
My copy is on CD – one side is silver and one has all the writing. I think I’m going with the silver side.
The Good Doctor says
Ahem….I think you’ll find it won’t fit on one CD
Tiggerlion says
The album last 93 minutes 35 seconds.
I have the 1987 original CD issue (in a clunky plastic box), the 1998 30th anniversary limited edition issue (the best in my view, lovely cardboard packaging), the 2009 remaster and the 2014 mono box set. All are two discs.
You can choose the Granny Smith skin disc or the chopped in half disc.
MC Escher says
Wasn’t it in recorded in stereo though? Apologies for the dumb question, I was ill during the first seventeen Beatles nerd classes.
Oh and it’s 1,2,3,4.
Let’s face it, it would have made a great single LP. What a great idea for an original thread!
Tiggerlion says
There are two different mixes but, I reckon The Beatles were still ‘thinking’ in mono. However, it is the first album where they gave as much attention to the stereo mix.
Hmm. There must be someone, somewhere who has listened to both and made notes. Let’s see if I can copy and paste something from that there t’internet….
The Mono/Stereo Differences
Back In The U.S.S.R.
The airplane overdubs occur in different places on the mono and stereo versions. The Mono version has louder piano, a yell after the opening plane sound, and drumbeats under the closing plane sound. The Stereo version has extra guitar chords at the start of the solo, and shouts and piano during the guitar solo.
Dear Prudence
Stereo version has slightly more treble and fades to a lower volume at the end.
Glass Onion
The edit adds the end orchestral piece. Stereo is lacking Paul’s added vocal “oh yeah” at the end of the break. Mono mix has various sound effects, of which only the whistle after “fool on the hill” was used in the standard mix.
Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da
The stereo version has hand-clapping during the intro, the mono version does not. On the mono mix, Paul’s vocals are not double-tracked as they sound to be on the stereo mix which gives the allusion of two or more Pauls singing at once.
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
The stereo version has some vocal sounds from George at the end, the mono version does not. The Clapton guitar remains loud in mono version after the solo break, not in the Stereo version. Near the end of the fadeout only the stereo has “yeah yeah yeah”, even though it is a few second shorter than mono.
Blackbird
The bird sound effects are quite different between the stereo and the mono release.
Piggies
The pig sound effects are quite different between the stereo and the mono release. The guitar is louder in the mono version.
Don’t Pass Me By
The mono version is much faster than the stereo, and therefore is shorter. The violin sounds at the end are markedly different. Mono runs faster, and it has more fiddle throughout the song, and different fiddle at the end. The fiddle at the end of stereo seems to a repeat of a bit of the chorus. The edit added the intro. Stereo has only work recorded 5 and 6 June without the fiddle or intro added in July. It’s at the speed of the stereo mix.
Why Don’t We Do It In The Road
The stereo version has hand-clapping during the intro, the mono version does not.
Sexy Sadie
The stereo version has two taps on the tambourine during the intro, the mono version only has one.
Helter Skelter
The stereo version has a fade-out/fade-in dummy ending with Ringo’s shout of “I’ve got blisters on my fingers”, the mono version does not ! … this makes the stereo version almost a minute longer. The basic song runs about 3:10 to a pause shortly after Paul’s distorted vocal, too close to the microphone. The Mono version then is edited into more of the same take, with sound effects noises, and fades at 3:36. Stereo version is edited instead to a different part of the take, fading out and then back in again, with another edit, ending finally at 4:29 after Ringo shouts “I’ve got blisters on my fingers!”. Is the distorted vocal “Can you hear me speaking– woo!” or “My baby is sleeping, ooh!, dreaming”?
Long, Long, Long
The stereo version is fine, but on the mono, George’s double-tracked vocal is embarrassingly out of synch.
Honey Pie
The stereo version has a shorter guitar solo than the mono version.
Revolution 9
Although the mono was made from the stereo, the opening lines are more clear in mono: “I would’ve gotten claret for you but I’ve realized I’ve forgotten all about it, George, I’m sorry. Will you forgive me?”. This is evidently a separate piece of tape added during mixing.
Everybody’s Got Something To Hide (Except Me and My Monkey)
The screaming after “come on” in the last verse is different in the Stereo and Mono versions.
Revolution [2]
The song was deliberately distorted during recording and mixing, so since the mono version sounds more distorted and compressed, it’s better! John’s guitar also sounds louder in mono version.
Yer Blues
The 2d generation tape is an edit of two takes, each of the two tapes being itself a mixdown from the original 4-track. The edit causes an abrupt transition at the end of the guitar solos. In stereo, traces of other vocal and guitar parts can be heard throughout the song in the left channel, including something shouted over parts of the vocal and what sounds like another different guitar solo. After the edit, the trace lead vocal suggests we are hearing the first part of the song from the other take. The edit in the mixes added the countdown intro, which is louder in mono. The Mono version is 11 seconds longer, long fade.
I Will
The “bass” (vocal) starts later in mono, after the first verse. The stereo version has more prominent bongos.
Birthday
The last “daaaance” starts twice, maybe a double-track error or a leak from a guide vocal, as heard on stereo, but covered up by other sound in the mono version. The stereo version has extra vocals at the end of the second chorus.
Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Mono has tapping (organ) on the beat from the start until the drums come in, but it is soft and mixed out 4 beats earlier in stereo. In the “I need a fix” section in stereo, by error, although the first line was mixed out, the last “down” is just audible. Mono has louder bass in the “I need a fix” section. Mono has laughter near the very end, just before the last drumbeat, not heard in stereo.
Honey Pie
Mono has the full lead guitar break, slightly shortened in the Stereo Version.
Savoy Truffle
Mono has sound effects during the instrumental break, and the lead guitar continues through the break into the refrain after it. The organ is missing from the last verse in the Mono Version.
Long Long Long
Doubletracking starts at the first “long” in stereo, the third “long” in mono, and sounds somewhat different thereafter. In mono the rhythm guitar is softer but the lead guitar is louder, especially in the later part of the song.
I’m So Tired
Paul’s harmony at the first “You’d say” is louder in mono. The muttering after the song is part of this recording.
MC Escher says
Yes, thanks Tiggs, that brings me up to speed. I will have the last homework assignment done by Monday morning.
Twang says
Good grief NOW I understand the mono or stereo version debate. Clapping in the intro? Different bird and pig noises? Two missing tambourine taps? My goodness what were they thinking.
Moose the Mooche says
In the original CD you got a little square of white foam for some reason.
Tiggerlion says
Oh yus.
You open the top of the box. On the left is the Granny Smith skin disc of sides one and two of the vinyl and on the right is the card with the lyrics and those photos of each individual band members. You then fold over the middle of the box. On the right is the other disc, sides three and four, with the apple cut in two. On the left was the piece of foam. It’s purpose was to mop the sweat from your brow after leaping around to Everybody’s Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey. Either that or it’s to cushion disc two if those pesky central clips break as they so often do. Thankfully, they use much more complex technology, cardboard and a thin plastic bag for each disc.
Moose the Mooche says
My white cd case and foam are very off-white indeed now. I took up smoking specifically to create that authentic effect.
Kid Dynamite says
I have never knowingly listened to the White Album. Tell you what, to show willing, I will listen to whatever side comes out tops here and add my thoughts to the end of the thread.
Tiggerlion says
That’s a very noble offer. You can rest easy. So far, it doesn’t seem that you are going to be subjected to side four.
NigelT says
1. 1
2. 3
3. 2.
4. 4
Side 1 is chock full of great songs, a great opening 3 then the only relative clinkers being Ob La Di, Ob La Da ( which I don’t hate as much many here do) and the brief Honey Pie, then finishes strongly. I like the structure of this side.
3 is strong throughout, but I just personally prefer some of the songs on 1.
2 wanders a bit and has the weak three song stretch of Rocky Racoon, Don’t Pass Me By and Why Don’t We Do It In The Road.
4 feels like where they put the stuff that didn’t fit anywhere else – the inferior version of Revolution, the annoyingly rinky dink Honey Pie, Revolution 9 and the awful Goodnight. Savoy Truffle and Cry Baby Cry are good, but are a bit swamped.
Tiggerlion says
Thank you, Nigel. You are the first to give a reasoned answer. You get a bonus point for side one. You made me laugh by implying Bungalow Bill is a great song! ‘Ey up!
NigelT says
Hmmm….well I like it!
Pajp says
I’m going 1, 2, 3, 4.
Foe what it’s worth, I think my “single” album, in the order that they appear on the album as is would be:
Back in the USSR
Dear Prudence
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Happiness is a Warm Gun
Martha My Dear
I’m So Tired
Blackbird
I Will
Julia
Birthday
Sexy Sadie
Helter Skelter
Revolution 1
Pajp says
I must learn to spell “For”.
Tiggerlion says
I’m presuming your selection process for The Single White must, logically, reflect your reasoning behind your vote.
You select four tracks from side one, five side two, three from side three and only one from side four.
Therefore, your vote should read 2, 1, 3, 4.
What happened?
As for The Single White, I’d be interested in your sequencing, @Pajp.
Pajp says
I haven’t be ignoring the gauntlet @tiggerlion I just didn’t have a chance to sit down and reply before now.
Although I see that the results are in, I thought I’d still have a go at explaining the apparent inconsistency in my choices or, failing that, admit that I probably wasn’t paying as much attention to the survey as I should have.
My side-by-side choice was based on looking at the list of songs on each side and plumping for the sides as a whole on a gut-reaction basis. For example, on side 1, I really like Back In The USSR, Dear Prudence, While My Guitar Gently Weeps
and Happiness is a Warm Gun, but don’t like Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da and Bungalow Bill. As for side 2 coming out as my “top” side when it comes to number of songs chosen, while I like Martha My Dear, I’m So Tired, &c, my dislike of Piggies, Rocky Raccoon and Why Don’t We Do It In The Road? is so great as to relegate side 2 to number 2 despite the greater number of individual tracks I chose from it.
Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
As for sequencing, you may accuse me of being a cloth-ears, but I think the sequence in my filleted list is just fine as it is. Otherwise, how about alphabetically? thus*:
Back in the USSR
Birthday
Blackbird
Dear Prudence
Happiness is a Warm Gun
Helter Skelter
I’m So Tired
I Will
Julia
Martha My Dear
Revolution 1
Sexy Sadie
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
* actually, it’s not too bad. Helter Skelter sticks out a bit, but otherwise OK. I think,
Tiggerlion says
Thanks for responding. Frankly, I prefer your first sequence. Your alphabetical one starts with three McCartney songs in a row. That can’t be allowed, can it?
What happened to Long, Long, Long?
Pajp says
Re: Long, Long, Long…. dunno!
It’s a Long, Long, Long time since I’ve listened to the White Album (see what I did there) and – if I’m honest – I didn’t (and don’t) really remember it.
I will remedy that state of affairs, but not tonight.
Tony Japanese says
I’ve never owned the four-sided (square?) version of the White Album so I will need to see where discs 1 and 2 split before coming back with a proper answer.
Tiggerlion says
Allow me, Tony.
Side One
Back In The USSR
Dear Prudence
Glass Onion
Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da
Wild Honey Pie
The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Side Two
Martha My Dear
I’m So Tired
Blackbird
Piggies
Rocky Racoon
Why Don’t We Do It In The Road?
I Will
Julia
Side Three
Birthday
Yer Blues
Mother Nature’s Son
Everybody’s Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey
Sexy Sadie
Helter Skelter
Long, Long, Long
Side Four
Revolution 1
Honey Pie
Savoy Truffle
Cry, Baby, Cry
Revolution 9
Goodnight
Twang says
Where’s “Happiness is a warm gun” gone?
Tiggerlion says
Good point!
It’s the last track side one, @Tony-Japanese!
Twang says
I started listening to it track by track and scoring but got bored half way through side 2. The trouble is, each side has clunkers to my ears, which makes it too turgid to wade through – though one man’s self indulgence is another’s inspired boundary breaking I am ready to accept. Speaking of which I am listening to a proper double album, my newly washed vinyl of “The Wall” which is probably another case in point.
Tiggerlion says
The Wall, you say? Oh shit!
It’s a pity you didn’t get to side three. Your Rock Guitar Pleasure Button would have been well and truly pressed.
Twang says
I know it well enough and can’t think of any decent rock guitar on side 3. The Beatles don’t rock, fact.
Kid Dynamite says
oh Lordy, I wish I’d seen this before making my offer upthread. Of the songs I know on side one, Ob La Di Da is one of the few things that makes the total destruction of human civilisation by global thermonuclear war look like a good thing, and While My Guitar Gently Weeps isn’t much better…
Tony Japanese says
OK, having rated the songs using a foolproof method, I have decided that the four sides should be ranked in the following order:
Side 3
Side 1
Side 2
Side 4.
Side One – 7/10
Starts of with one of the best tracks on the album, and certainly McCartney’s best offering before Lennon offers a couple of acceptable tracks. McCartney ruins the good run by subjecting us to ‘Ob-la-di’ and ‘Wild Honey Pie (which is mercifully short but pointless). ‘Bungalow Bill’ is Lennon’s worst offering on this side before there is an upturn in fortunes with ‘While My Guitar’ and ‘Warm Gun’ at the end.
Side Two- 6.2/10
I like the beginning of this side. ‘Martha’ is a typical McCartney track of the period – musically interesting, but ultimately nonsense. Who else would write a song about their pet? ‘I’m So Tired’ is just as good, and probably my favourite from this side just because of the vocal. ‘Blackbird’ is fine, but I always think it’s finished before it does and I don’t like being tricked. ‘Piggies’ must be a joke, surely? Ditto ‘Rocky Racoon’. ‘Why Don’t We Do It In the Road’ is the better of McCartney’s throwaway songs. Side 2 ends disappointingly with ‘I Will’ – ruined by that irritating vocal bass and Lennon’s love song to his mum (bleurgh!). I have also realised that you’ve forgotten to include ‘Don’t Pass Me By’ which is perfectly understandable because it’s terrible.
Side Three- 7/10
The first four tracks on this side aren’t very good are they? Luckily they’re not terrible either. ‘Yer Blues’ is probably the better of the four. None of these songs are as bad as ‘Ob-la-di’ or ‘Wild Honey Pie’ however. Side 3 definitely picks up towards the end. ‘Helter Skelter’ is a great track and ‘Sexy Sadie’ is probably my favourite song on the album. ‘Long Long Long’ is beautiful too, and possibly George’s best offering. Ultimately, this side is slightly more consistent than side 1.
Side Four – 5.8/10
Definitely the worst side of the four. ‘Revolution 1’ is the only good song on here, and even that’s not as good as the faster version of the same name. ‘Savoy Truffle’, ‘Revolution 9’ and ‘Good Night’ are awful and ‘Honey Pie’ and ‘Cry Baby Cry’ are marginally better.
Tiggerlion says
Brilliant work! Bonus point for you, Tony. Well done.
Gatz says
What @tony-Japanese said. I nodded along to all of those observations. Given the draw between 1+3 I think 1 edges it.
duco01 says
Just as a little aside, “Long Long Long” was the last song ever performed on stage by Elliott Smith.
“So many tears I was searching,
So many tears I was wasting, oh”
Jackthebiscuit says
Not trolling, but I love goodnight, lovely song & beautifully sung by big nose.
Lemonhope says
Don’t pass me by?
Tiggerlion says
Is it a surprise that it passed me by?
Tony Japanese says
Does the violin on ‘Don’t Pass Me By’ qualify as the worst use of intrumentation on a Beatles record? It’s either that or the fuzz-bass from ‘Think For Yourself’. OOAA however.
Tiggerlion says
I think the musician involved was merely tuning up and was horrified when he heard the final product.
Tony Japanese says
I know, usually McCatney’s basslines were so creative and melodic and … oh you were talking about the Violinist weren’t you?
Tiggerlion says
Jack Fallon was the violinist.
“I thought that they had had enough so I just busked around a bit. When I heard it played back at the end of the session I was hoping they’d scrub that bit out, but they didn’t, so there I am on record, scraping away! I was very surprised they kept it in, it was pretty dreadful.”
There is a reason his fiddle doesn’t sound quite right. The song suggests a Country style but they asked Jack to play one-stop instead of the usual Country two-note. The end result seems odd but in keeping with a very odd song that Ringo first wrote in 1964!
Arthur Cowslip says
Some great info there, seriously. I love this detail. But what’s a one-stop and two-note? Different violin tunings?
Tiggerlion says
A fiddle double stop is playing two notes at once. You press two of the strings down with two different fingers and play the bow across both at the same time. This is standard Country/Bluegrass style. The Beatles asked Jack to play only one note at a time.
Bartleby says
This site gathers together all the various comments, politics and technical stuff around the White Album being a single platter:
https://gaag.home.xs4all.nl/swa/singlewhitealbum.htm
And the author gives his single lp as follows. I must say it sounds good to me:
Side 1 (21:08)
Back In The USSR
Dear Prudence
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Happiness Is A Warm Gun
I’m So Tired
I Will
Julia
Side 2 (23:10)
Helter Skelter
Yer Blues
Blackbird
Cry Baby Cry
Mother Nature’s Son
Long, Long, Long
Good Night
Tiggerlion says
I agree with all of this man’s arguments. I have aversion on my Ipod including Hey Bulldog, the Revolution that’s the B side of Hey Jude and the Love version of While My Guitar Gently Weeps (the one with strings rather than Eric Clapton). One ‘political’ rule I made was that it had to include Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da. That song is at the heart of The White Album, Paul loved it and, by take 1,000, everyone else hated it. In the end, Paul was proved right by Marmalade. I have the Anthology with horns, the only time The Beatles hired session musicians and didn’t release their work.
Trouble is, both Weeps and Ob-La-Di need a bit of editing to remove spurious studio chatter and I can’t edit Spotify tracks. Instead, I’ve played pure and only used White Album versions in this list for my Single White. I enjoy Why Don’t We Do It In The Road? It sounds fun.
Back In The USSR
Dear Prudence
I Will
I’m So Tired
Blackbird
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Mother Nature’s Son
Julia
Why Don’t We Do It In The Road?
Sexy Sadie
Helter Skelter
Long, Long, Long
Cry, Baby, Cry
Goodnight
Bartleby says
I don’t know if Marmalade “proved” anything – what if Macca had written the Chicken Song or Agadoo? Would their success prove they belonged on TWA?
It’s a good line of arguments tho, isn’t it. I miss Yer Blues with your list. Why Don’t We is fun, but as the author reasons, one of the “jam” songs and hence excisable. All just opinion tho innit.
Tiggerlion says
I think Paul kept telling the rest of the band that Ob-La-Di was a hit. No-one believed him.
Moose the Mooche says
Funny how after it caused all that trouble, it ended up on the Blue album. I don’t know whose decision it was. JWL seemed to want to take a load of credit for putting those together.
Sewer Robot says
Started my day with your Single White, Mr Tiggs and just now again, and must admit it’s been my most enjoyable whirl through this difficult record. Still sags in the middle (an opinion, don’t shoot!) and ends feebly, but that’s what you’ll get when there’s so little “A” material to work with. (Although you’ve left out a couple of the songs I actually like, such as “Birthday”, which I note is also absent from Mr Pajp’s quite similar edit).
Thanks for encouraging me to revisit this – I think I may be able to make peace with a great chunk of it even if I never shift from my view that there are a dozen releases from around that period more worthy of my attention…
Tiggerlion says
I know what you mean about the ending. Goodnight works less well on a single album (it’s a blessed relief after Number 9) but there has to be a Ringo track. I don’t mind replacing Road with Birthday though.
Rob C says
Blessed relief. Yes. It’s a beautiful dreamflight over one’s ‘after the glorious just that brilliant cacophony of future then now global bullshit Kali Yuga sound collage raga so brilliantly, and entertainingly invoked that I can’t decide where to add another apostrophe, the only apps I acknowledge. Tighten you dressing gown cords.
Tiggerlion says
Indeed. I’ll make certain my cords are tight.
It’s so good to have you back. 🙂
Moose the Mooche says
The Chicken Song gets a free pass for being, as far as I know, the only UK Number 1 single to exhort listeners to “disembowel yourself with spears”.
Mind you, I haven’t heard all of Westlife’s records.
fedoraboy says
3
1
2
4
Tiggerlion says
@fedoraboy, you have made the schoolboy error of leaping directly to the answer. Where are your ponderings and musings on the byways of… oh, never mind. Fortunately, you are correct.
fedoraboy says
Extensive notes on the making of my decision will be available in the Legacy Edition of my post along with alternate takes where I say Revolution #9 is not the bad and that While My Guitat… goes on a bit.
See below for details.
http://www.kickstarter.com/whitealbummusingslegacyedition
For a pledge of only £250, I will come around to your house and play the four songs I can manage to finish on my guitar, as well as present a tediously technical PowerPoint on the engine noise at the start of Back In The USSR.
Tiggerlion says
Fortunately, the link goes nowhere. But,I tell you what. I’ll give you a bonus point if you promise not to come to my house.fedoraboy says
Deal. Your loss.
My Helter Skelter steals itself fback rom U2 via a sophisticated phishing email scam.
Locust says
I see that I’m going to be in the minority in this poll…
The White Album was always a Single album to me – quite literally. My older sister went to London the year it came out; just as she was about to go back home again, so she had very little money left and couldn’t afford a double album. She got together with a German girl in the same predicament and they bought it together and cut the sleeve in two halves. My sister had the great fortune to bring home sides 3 and 4, and as a child this was all I knew.
When I got the full double album as a teenager, I was appalled at how awful sides 1 and 2 are, and in spite of trying hard I still can’t listen to that “imposter” disc of the album. “While My Guitar…” and “Julia” are the only two really good tracks from that part.
So; number one is side 3, all killer, no filler.
Second place goes to side 4, starting with two OK tracks, followed by the three knock-outs “Savoy Truffle”, “Cry Baby Cry” and “Revolution 9”, but then ending disappointingly with the rather awful “Good Night”. I never skip “Revolution 9”, I’ve always loved it and don’t understand the hatred for it. As a child I would lie on the rug between the speakers, play it “fookin’ loud” and enjoy all of the weird and wonderful images that filled my head. Often I’d play it twice in a row.
Third place (or thirteenth; major quality drop from place two) is side 1, and absolute last is side 2; they have one good track each, but side 1 has a couple more OK:ish tracks that can be listened to with only moderate agony.
You could always try to argue that if my sister and the German girl had made the opposite choices and I’d grown up listening to sides 1 and 2, I’d feel different. But I doubt it – there are tracks from “my” White Album that I loved as a child (“Revolution 1” and “Honey Pie”) just as much as the other tracks, and now I still like them but can clearly hear that they’re not as good as the others (I could even listen to “Good Night” back then, nowadays I’ll skip it). Also, I did hear tracks on the radio etc, not knowing that they came from that part of that album, and I never liked them much then either (despite being a bit of a* Beatles fanatic as a child).
* Ok, taliban level fanatic…
Locust says
BTW, listening to “Cry Baby Cry” just now I noticed for the first time the lyrics “…the king of Marigold was in the kitchen cooking breakfast for the queen…”
Now what does that remind me of…hmm?
minibreakfast says
*squeak-squeak-squeak*
Tiggerlion says
What a post! You made me laugh, Locust, and gave me a different perspective on life altogether. Bonus points for your top two!
Locust says
Ka-ching!
You couldn’t possibly make it double bonus points for my number 2 spot? Let’s face it – it’s obviously going to come last in the poll anyway, which I can only explain as the result of Double Album Fatigue, with vaning concentration after hearing the first three sides. Either that, or the rest of the Afterword has cloth ears… 😉
Tiggerlion says
Now that’s what I call a persuasive argument. Double bonus points for your second choice!
Blue Boy says
That’s a brilliant post. Love the idea that if all you knew was side 3 and 4 they would always the best – that makes complete sense. And I’m glad there’s someone else batting for Revolution No 9
Sewer Robot says
I much prefer the side of their career before The White Album to the side after.
Have never got on with TWA itself (seriously, if we were doing a thread “10 albums you regret buying” it would be right in there) but by the time we get to the bottom of this thread I might blow the dust off and try one of the crazy alt. versions suggested here for laffs..
Tiggerlion says
Well, I’m having fun! 😃
Moose the Mooche says
I have this vision of Burt/HP putting his head around the door and finding that four Beatles threads have started up in the last two days. He must feel like someone turning up at St Martin’s Theatre on the off chance that there’s something new on.
Tiggerlion says
If it was a thread on The Monkees he’d be delighted!
Rigid Digit says
1
3
2
4
The presence of Back In The USSR, Dear Prudence and Glass Onion more than make up for the unloved Ob La Di Ob La Da – and Bungalow Bill, While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Happiness Is A Warm Gun do enough to relieve the shivers, and ensure Side 1 is number 1.
A close run thing with Side 3 – Helter Skelter, Everybody’s Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey and Yer Blues ensure this side is much loved.
Unlike Side 2 – even Blackbird can’t relieve the “drop” experienced on Side 2 – nice enough, but never really feels essential
(I like both Rocky Raccoon and Don’t Pass Me By, but know that I may be shouting in the darkness here, and even I cannot justify them as truly great songs.)
The fuzz-guitar, all out rock of Revolution was first heard on the B-Side of Hey Jude – compared to that version, Revolution 1 never quite cuts it. And not much about Side 4 does.
Maybe Locust’s observation of Double Album fatigue is true, but Side 4 remains my least listened to Beatles artefact.
Tiggerlion says
Great inner workings, Rigid. Bonus point for you.
NigelT says
I think you have pretty much the same view as me @Rigid_Digit – especially regarding Side 4!!
dai says
G3-1-4-2
3 is flawless, every track a winner and covering about 7 different styles on the side. Side 1 has the most Beatles tracks on any side (apart from Abbey Road medley) so must be great despite Wild Honey Pie, will take 4 next, have lullabyed my daughter with Good Night for almost 10 yrs. 2 comes last because of Don’t Pass Me Bye and Why Don’t We Do it in the Road, but actually bit is very strong especially the Lennon tracks.
Great album, stereo is my preference
Tiggerlion says
Bonus point for the aaah factor with the lullaby. I wonder what she made of Revolution 9, though.
Tony Japanese says
Just as likely to send her to sleep, I’d imagine.
dai says
I haven’t inflicted R9 on her. She did tell me once that I like “weird stuff” (and she’s seen Macca live!)
Blue Boy says
I deliberately haven’t read any of the other comments so apologies if this duplicates what others may have said. But here goes
1,3,2,4
1 A sparky opening from Paul, a George classic and then three of Lennon’s best on the album – Dear Prudence, Glass Onion and above all Happiness is a Warm Gun. OK it gets a bit silly in the middle, but these songs are more than enough to forgive Bungalow Bill. And, hell, I kinda like Ob- la- di…
3 really tight call between 3 and 2. 3 has Sexie Sadie, Helter Skelter, Long Long Long and Yer Blues. 2 has I’m So Tired, Blackbird, Julia, and Ringo’s turn at the microphone. If that’s all they had I’d probably give it to 2. But that side also has Why Don’t We Do It In the Road? and arguably the most obnoxious song they ever recorded, Piggies, and that’s enough to relegate it.
4. Revolution No 1 is good, I absolutely love Cry Baby Cry, Good Night is a lovely ending, and I genuinely like Revolution No 9. But Savoy Truffle and Honey Pie are dull, and the high points aren’t as high as they are on sides 1,2,3.
Would it have made a better single album? Maybe. But there’s more than one albums worth of great material here, and I love it for its sprawling bagginess. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
Tiggerlion says
Lovely neat writing and good grammar earns you a bonus point, @Blue-Boy. I’m going to pick you up on Savoy Truffle, though, because it’s marvellous. Yes, it’s a song about a box of chocolates but all The Beatles give it a hearty go. The harmonies are great, it’s got a good groove, there are funky horns and George sings with real pizzazz. It follows the golden rule; when you are being ridiculous, give it everything you’ve got. As I said, it’s marvellous.
Moose the Mooche says
All? Is JWL on it? Cannae hear him.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
It’s the best Fab Four album without a doubt but, Jeeze my knees seem to be missing, this is the kind of thread that I will forever keep secret from all my normal friends.
chiz says
Exactly the reason why we don’t use our real names here
Arthur Cowslip says
What? Who doesn’t?
Tiggerlion says
No new votes today, so I’ve calculated the score. It was an extremely complicated process that took longer than the Eurovision results to be announced. Pull up your socks, brush back your hair, pour yourself a malt and recline on a Parker Knoll to prepare yourself for a shock.
In fourth place with 16 points, despite Locust’s best efforts, is Side Four.
In third place, never actually gaining anyone’s total affection, with 25 points, is Side Two.
Now, have a big gulp of that Whisky to help contain your excitement.
In second place, with 47 points, is Side One, leaving Side Three triumphant on 52 points. Congratulations to Side Three and thank you everyone for your votes.
Go on, @Kid-Dynamite, do your stuff!
Kid Dynamite says
Wilco, skipper! It won’t be in the next day or so as I’m out seeing Maximo Park tomorrow, but I promise to do something by the end of the week. The only song I really know on side three is Helter Skelter, and that’s mainly through covers, so I will look forward to it.
Tiggerlion says
Good man. Side Three should be like a breath of fresh air after a Maximo Park Night Out.
Tiggerlion says
*drums fingers*
Kid Dynamite says
Derailed a bit by going on a big Soundgarden jag Thursday, Friday and Saturday…
As a teaser though, I can exclusively reveal that I quite liked the one about birthdays. More to come…
Declan says
Still need to get my oar in here, even if the dramatic roll-on-the-drums bit is over. The White Album is, of course, magnificent and I can still picture hearing the double for the first time. Back in the US, back in the US, back in the USSR! Neat, and the line about Georgia. And BOAC. Have to explain this stuff to youngsters nowadays. And those funny little links into the next track, like those baleful cellos behind Glass Onion leading to the rinky-dink piano for ObLaDi, then those weird tempo shifts in Bungalow Bill. And here, Harrison and Clapton doing their Cream trick again (Badge). Misheard ay-up as ay-el, well we didn’t really know ay-up in Ireland.
Side 2 really picks up on I’m So Tired, did anyone ever get called a get in pop music, before or since? Sags a bit on ..Road. Side 3 has the supremely scuzzy Yer Blues and the seriously loud Helter Skelter, amid I’ve got blisters on my fingers, into the quiet and diffident Long Long Long. And so to 4. Hmm, we know Revolution already, a B-side, hey, they’ve slowed it down. By the time you hit Revolution 9, you know that much of what the Beatles had been doing on Sgt Pepper was being taken further on this double. They weren’t exactly cuddly anymore, they’d got weird and weren’t they doing drugs, mused my mum and the Sunday papers?
Anyway, it’s 1/3/4 and 2 (equally).
BTW just loved Locust’s story! Marvellous! @Locust
Tiggerlion says
I like your post very much Declan. I’ll give you a bonus point for mentioning your mum.
Declan says
Absolutely true, Tig. The parents had bought the old R’n’R Fabs (which of course made it old hat for me, can’t be enjoying the oldies’ stuff. Though I did!) So it took me a while to get on board with them and I allowed myself to find them cool from 1967 on. Actually, the final overlap was Paperback Writer.
Love the records, but not a nerd, e.g. don’t possess any monos/remasters/box sets/merch/whatever.
Rob C says
All of them. A cornucopia of transcendent delight. A perfect whole forming a Head trove of rocking folky poppy spooky wonderments. Revolution #9 is one of the greatest work of art of the 20th century. It’s a wavelength thing. You’re either on it….. or OFF.
Tiggerlion says
Welcome back, Rob!!!! That astral plane seems to have refreshed you really well.
Bonus points all round.
Rob C says
Rob? The name’s Bombadil. Hare Bomabdil. Licensed to chill, but thanks nonetheless.
(Hey, Miss Peyotepenny! Hot dang sexy foxy witchy type boho temptress! Been a long time. OW! BABY! Yeah……)
Tiggerlion says
That’s what I thought.
Moose the Mooche says
You don’t fool me Danny Baker.
Lemonhope says
2, 3, 4, 1
Side One (6.4)
Back in the USSR 8
Dear prudence 7
Glass onion 6.5
Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da 8.5
Wild Honey Pie 4
The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill 5
While My Guitar Gently Weeps 6
Side Two (7.1)
Happiness is a warm gun 6.5
Martha My Dear 7.5
I’m So Tired 7
Blackbird 9.5
Piggies 6.5
Rocky Racoon 7
Don’t Pass Me By 6
Why Don’t We Do It In The Road? 6
I Will 7 .5
Julia 7.5
Side Three (7)
Birthday 6
Yer Blues 7
Mother Nature’s Son 7
Everybody’s Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey 7
Sexy Sadie 7
Helter Skelter 8
Long, Long, Long 7
Side Four (6.6)
Revolution 1 6.5
Honey Pie 7
Savoy Truffle 6.5
Cry, Baby, Cry 6.5
Revolution 9 7
Goodnight 6.5
Tiggerlion says
Oooh. You are the first to give Side Two the top slot.
dai says
He has Happiness is a Warm Gun on the wrong side, however with a frankly ridiculous rating of 6.5.
Tiggerlion says
And look at the score he gives Ob-La-Di!
I remember a discussion hereabouts on Prince’s Emancipation. Everyone agreed it was too long and it should be edited down to just two hours. The trouble was everyone kept and discarded different tracks. We failed completely to consense.
Vive la Difference!!!
Lemonhope says
First of all, whats with the ‘he’ nonsense? – don’t label me with your gender er, labels, thanks very much.
Secondly, I hang my head in shame at my track-listing error, I have corrected the mistake and it makes no difference to my rating. Side two is the winner!
ps. I’d much rather listen to Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da than Happiness is a Warm Gun, which is frankly overrated & pretentious.
Tiggerlion says
Good strong response. I like a spirited defence of Side Two. It needs a good advocate to argue its case.
Lodestone of Wrongness says
Despite Rob descending from Cloud 9 this thread still proudly holds on to its Most Geekiest Thread Ever throne. A Day In The Life or Get A Life??
Tiggerlion says
Wow! That’s some accolade for an Afterword thread.
Moose the Mooche says
Next Afterword T-shirt, written in plaintive lowercase:
can you take me back where I came from?
can you take me back?
Arthur Cowslip says
The only two Beatles albums I loved on first listening were Pepper and Revolver. The White Album sounded like a real mess at first – I thought I’d wasted my £26.99 (Our Price, February 1990).
But it gradually worked its magic. It’s my “John” album of choice – I love Revolution, Yer Blues, Everybody’s Got…. Etc. Happiness Is A Warm Gun is a pocket masterpiece.
It’s also my favourite “sounding” Beatles album. Halfway between Pepper’s more outlandish effects (phasing, sitars, etc) but not quite buffed into the MOR smoothness of Abbey Road, the White Album has a real kick to its sound – room-shaking drums and spiky guitars. And I dig all those double-tracked acoustic guitars.
Kid Dynamite says
Okay, @tiggerlion, here goes. Side three of The White Album, as listened to by Kid Dynamite, aged [cough] and a [splutter].
Birthday: Quite a happy little rocker. This is alright actually. I like the spiky guitars, and the urgency of the tune. A good start.
Yer Blues: Booooooring. This is bloody terrible. It really is. The dullest, most unimaginative, thing. No wonder they gave up playing live, they’d all be in a coma after two minutes of this. Mother Nature’s Son: Pretty but uneventful. It passes a couple of minutes nicely, but I can’t imagine it being anyone’s favourite song. The brass part is nice, though.
Everybody’s Got Something To Hide…: Back in Birthday territory, another uptempo rocker, and I like it for much the same reasons.
Sexy Sadie: I’ll be honest, I wasn’t expecting much after that title. I like the backing vocals, but the rest of it is a forgettable plodder.
Helter Skelter: This is, I think, the only song on this side I was really familiar with beforehand, and that’s in large part down to the numerous covers. I think I like the covers better. Certainly of the three rockers on this side, this is my least favourite by some margin.
Long Long Long: yes, this song is on this record. That’s about all I can find to say about it.
So there you go, side three. I’m not in love with it, and I don’t hate it. It leaves me largely unmoved (and before all the Beatles nuts jump down my throat, let me stress that this is just my opinion. You can have a different one, it’s okay. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but this is my truth, (don’t) tell me yours.).
But why? When I love music so much, why am I left underwhelmed by a classic album from a classic band that has been loved for decades? Well, aside from the obvious stuff about taste being subjective, etc, I think there are two things in play here.
Firstly, there’s the Halloween effect. John Carpenter’s Halloween essentially invented the slasher movie and revolutionised the horror genre. It’s spoken of in hushed tones in horror circles and widely revered. But when I sat down to finally watch it late one night on BBC2 (it was probably a Moviedrome selection), I was left a bit disappointed. I’d seen its tricks done in a hundred other films, and what would have been fresh once came off as stale and cheesy. Innovation is not something that is served well by the passage of time, thanks to its inevitable fellow travellers, imitation and improvement.
The other thing is more personal. If I think about what I like in music, by and large, it is rhythm and texture. I like techno, I like jazz, I like experimental metal and post-rock, all genres that foreground those attributes. I love live Grateful Dead recordings, (but mostly just the second set), dub and ambient. It’s not that I hate melody, or verse chorus verse song structures, but they’re some way down the list of things I look for in a record. And what did The Beatles specialise in? Yup, you got it. It’s not them, it’s me. I’m off to listen to Deafheaven.
JustB says
This is a great post.
As much as I really, REALLY like well-crafted v-c-v song structures, actually what is most likely to make me sit up and take notice is a fucken cool SOUND, especially when welded to an ace beat. I once did a thread on the old site called “it’s the noise, stupid” in which I maintained that the reason I like pop music (in its widest sense) so much is because it’s fundamentally a recorded medium which means it’s as much about sound design as about what note goes where. I still believe that. I’m massively opposed to the idea that the mark of a great song is that it can be stripped down to an acoustic guitar, for example.
Having said that, I do really like Macca’s way with a melody: as Ian Macdonald points out, his tunes jump around a lot, with big leaps up to choruses, whereas Lennon’s tend to mither around within a range of a fourth or so. So maybe I’m more of a fan of a good melody than you are, but I think the White Album is really lacking in good examples of those.
I absolutely agree that imitation and improvement tend to make innovation pale a bit over time. There’s a weird sense among music fans that doing something first means you did it best, but that’s certainly not true in any other field. So for me, being the first band to do a lot of stuff on a really large scale makes the Beatles really important, of course it does, but I’m not sure why it also has to mean it makes them best, besties, no returns, forever and ever, don’t even try to pretend they’re not actual demigods. IMO, they’ve definitely been improved upon as well as imitated in the last 50 years or so.
FWIW, I’ve always found the White Album pretty meh. Totally agree with your assessment of those songs, btw. The part of the Beatles mythos that actually interests me most is George Martin and his studio tricks: inventing ADT, varispeeding vocals, tape loops and all that. It’s the noise, stupid. 😉
(I do quite like Revolver and Help!, though. I just wouldn’t choose to actually listen to them more than once a decade or so.)
Kid Dynamite says
Thanks, Bob. I think you’re right about George Martin as well. What interest I do have in The Beatles’ legend is largely in the sounds around the songs, rather than the songs themselves, if that make sense. It’s the studio inventiveness and experimentation that I find attractive, much more so than someone explaining that ah, Sexy Sadie is actually about the Maharishi, you know.
(and per the second point in my post, I’m typing this listening to a Basic Channel compilation. It’s nothing but rhythm and texture, and it’s fantastic.)
Tiggerlion says
Thanks for the review, Kid. it’s refreshing to get another point of view. Interesting contrast with Arthur Cowslip’s post directly above yours. He likes the noise. It was largely done without George Martin’s trickery. In fact, he had little to do with it, the band effectively producing themselves with help from the engineers. It’s the closest they got to Rock. It is four long sides of music I return to regularly because it is so diverse, ranging from twee to bizarre, bursting with personality all the way through.
BTW, nice to get a confession from Bob that he quite likes Revolver. That’s my favourite.
Kid Dynamite says
Interesting comment on the diversity. I was quite conscious that just picking out one side was perhaps not the best way to experience an album that’s known for being bit of a sprawl. But then, if I want that, I’ll listen to Sandinista!, which takes us right back to innovation, imitation, and improvement again…would Sandinista! have existed without the template of the White Album? Maybe not, but would I prefer to listen to Sandinista? Hell, yeah!
Tiggerlion says
Except for sides 5 & 6 🙂
JustB says
Oh I’ve gone on record (arf) as liking Revolver before. I’m not quite the Beatles denier that – say – Bingo is, though we’re certainly on the same continuum (being identical ages and with very similar genre tastes). I went through a period a few years ago of buying the mono set and listening to it all, being reasonably interested etc, but lost interest quite fast. I do like those two albums well enough, but they’re not an essential band for me.