Prompted by thoughts on the Classic Albums thread – i.e. stuff which may be excellent but you don’t fancy hearing it often, if at all – it made me think, what would provide long term contemplative satisfaction if you could the original to lose yourself in at your leisure?
I thought a couple of conditions ŵere reasonable – you would have it for 5 years & then return it, you can’t sell it or charge admission, but if it was a whopper ( such as big Picasso) arrangements would be made to make your living space big enough to accommodate it comfortably.
At the moment , mine would be View of Delft by Vermeer, just because it would.
So would you have a Hopper, a Rothko, a Turner? Or maybe a Lichtenstein, a Picasso or a Cezanne? Perhaps a tearful clown or white horses in the surf are more your bag.
Get all cultural & let us in on your inner art appreciator.
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Junglejim says
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=View+of+Delft&id=3E485B4DAF1B95D5087E0CD7B03951CD8EE148A4&FORM=IQFRBA
This post has got off to a flyer – can’t seem to copy & paste a simple image!
Ho hum
Junglejim says
This has gone from bad to worse- stop the thread, I wanna get off!
salwarpe says
http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r761/salwarpe1/Vermeer-view-of-delft_zpsduvxl7fj.jpg
(hope this works!)
Jackthebiscuit says
That is beautiful Salwarpe – Who/what is it?
Kid Dynamite says
I think it is the View of Delft by Vermeer that junglejim was trying to post in the OP
Diddley Farquar says
It is. I’ve seen it in the Mauritshuis in The Hague. Wonderful painting. They’ve also got the famous Girl With A Pearl Earring there by him. Well worth a visit.
Junglejim says
Indeed it is. Girl With A Pearl Earring is worth the journey by itself.
On the Delft painting theme if Jack ( or anyone else) is interested, there’s another picture from almost the same perspective in the National Gallery in London. It’s ‘A view of Delft after the Explosion of 1654’ by Egbert van der Poel & the contrast is shocking. A major magazine went up & changed the face of the whole place. To see them side by side is fascinating.
Obviously being crapola at posting, I can’t put it up, but a more gifted AWer may be able to.
salwarpe says
(Let’s see if this does the trick)
http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r761/salwarpe1/1explosi_zpsnpwa3ahk.jpg
Rigid Digit says
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t490/Rigid_Digit/51-KBzdu8bL._SL500_AA300__zps4ftgxzpd.jpg
niscum says
Oooh, nice piece of ar…twork.
Pizon-bros says
she might be old nowadays…
Sniffity says
Wee-e-e-ll
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1368795/Athenas-iconic-Tennis-Girl-Fiona-Walker-revealed-35-years-on.html
Junglejim says
Ah, a thing of beauty is a joy for ever!
Rigid Digit says
or this one?
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t490/Rigid_Digit/1793551_orig_zpsvcgwak1o.jpg
Rigid Digit says
(this version looks better – not cropped at the edge)
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t490/Rigid_Digit/mondrian_zpsj1op4sij.png
Rob C says
I’d have the interior yak hide of my yurt covered entirely by the original type scroll of ‘On The Road’.
ip33 says
This is and always will be my fav.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w540/ip3329/T00540_10_zpsnmtee5ue.jpg
niscum says
Now, don’t take this the wrong way, I’m no philistine n shit, but my 3 year old nephew actually really could do that. In fact he did on Friday, it’s on his mum’s fridge.
It’s tissue on paper. He calls it ‘Knight on a Horse’ for some reason.
Tiggerlion says
I loved the Matisse exhibition and this, “The Snail”, niscum (you can just make it out if you look closely enough), was my favourite piece. The thing that struck me, however, was that his work enhanced each other when collected together in one place. Individually, they may seem a bit pointless or simple, but collectively, the colours, the joy, the celebration of life is breath-taking.
The great thing about Matisse’s paper collages is that they work almost as well as a print. You can buy this one, framed, very cheaply from John Lewis, ip33. You can have it on your wall after all.
ip33 says
It’s on the wall at work, next to the Guillotine I’m on at the moment.
mikethep says
Is it a far far better thing?
Sitheref2409 says
Bravo. Have a carton of milk
ip33 says
I’m not too proud to ask, am I being a bit thick but I don’t understand the two posts above. Care to enlighten me?
Sitheref2409 says
Guillotine leads one to the Dickens’ classic “A Tale of Two Cities” which contains the lines “It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known”.
Said line was uttered by Sydney Carton as he approached the guillotine to be executed
ip33 says
Thanks. I am officially thick!
This is the Guillotine that I use most days
mikethep says
Nobody knitting underneath it, I assume. Actually, tbh, I’ve never read A Tale of Two Cities, except in a Classics Illustrated comic when I was a kid. But I’ve seen the movie, with Dirk Bogarde coming over all noble. Come to think of it, he didn’t show up in the Afterword Movie thread, did he?
Bingo Little says
Marc Chagall’s America Windows.
Can’t post an image, but they are gorgeous.
davebigpicture says
You might be interested in this programme Bingo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ts4wg/fake-or-fortune-series-3-3-chagall
It briefly shows another stained glass window Chagall designed in Kent
http://www.tudeley.org/allsaintstudeley.htm
Black Type says
Honestly – and I know it sounds like I’m creeping – I covet an original commission from our resident painting magician. I’m so taken by everything he has done, but seriously can only afford to dream about gazing at my very own Billington masterpiece…for the moment.
pencilsqueezer says
Cor blimey. Thank you @black-type.
Gatz says
For eternal contemplation, probably a Rothko. If I have it for just five years then this Brueghel, my favourite in the National Gallery. I could spend five years looking and still not appreciate it all. I was took The Light to see it, and as I was telling about the details, the composition, suggestion of a vortex circling around the grub like Christ child …. a gallery attendant came over and told me to, ‘Stop pointing at the paint please, Sir.’
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr107/Gatz_photos/image.jpg1_4.jpg
Gatz says
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr107/Gatz_photos/image.jpg1_4.jpg
That’s odd – Photobucket links have always worked for me before.
Andymack says
An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump by Joseph Wright of Derby
http://www.kunstkopie.de/kunst/joseph_wrightofderby/7709005.jpg
Junglejim says
Faultless choice Andy & one of the prime draws for me every time I’m in that particular room in the National Gallery.
As an aside, have you ever been struck as I have, by the disturbing resemblance of the main man to Peter Stringfellow Esq?
duco01 says
Any of the Somerset paintings by John Caple.
https://www.pinterest.com/arturomarty/b-2/
fitterstoke says
Edvard Munch – Young woman on a beach
fitterstoke says
Or possibly this: Raeburn’s The Reverend Robert Walker skating on Duddingston Loch
slotbadger says
Glad to see Jasper Carrott’s enjoying his retirement there
fitterstoke says
I genuinely don’t understand that comment….
slotbadger says
I do love that painting – but the reverend did rather remind me of Brum funnyman Carrott. Maybe just me…;)
fitterstoke says
Don’t see it myself…..to me, he looks more like Donald Pleasance in a wig….
Sitheref2409 says
Can I buy a room? Because the Rothko room in the Phillips Collection in DC is one of my favorite places.
If I can’t, I’ll choose this one:
https://wearefollowing.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/rothko-766141.jpg
There’s so much to see in it.
If I can’t get that, then I’ll have Hopper’s Nighthawks – there’s so many stories in it.
Lando Cakes says
I’m very fond of this (which I do actually have as a print) Maternite by George Hitchcock (Aberdeen Art Gallery):
http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af344/embraman/maternite.jpg
Rob C says
Not on my wall –
Sistine Underpants.
Vulpes Vulpes says
When I was at primary school, the local museum used to loan objects to the school on a monthly basis – your classroom would be blessed with a couple of interesting artefacts for a few weeks, then a young bloke would turn up and change them for other wonders. One month you’d get a piece of obscure scientific equipment – in a case, but with an explanatory paper in tow – the next month you’d get a stuffed raptor of some kind, preserved in the act of killing a small mammal perhaps. Along with the random interesting object, each month the classroom would be adorned with a loaned painting (a high quality print, obv.). One month we had this on our wall, and I’ve had a soft spot for it ever since. I’d like to have the original…
Junglejim says
It is a wonderful painting, VV, and would be on my shortlist if I ever became an international art pilferer.
There’s so much in it, it’s heaving with stories & social/historical life & information but of course in addition to being an amazing document, it is truly beautiful.
BigJimBob says
saw it in real life about a month ago. Very lovely. I think I would have this. Its mystery only works at real size though:
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd449/jimathomas/1920px-Botticelli-primavera.jpg
ianess says
That print was permanently on a wall in my school. Despite seeing it over five thousand times, I always found it a fascinating work.
ianess says
The print was the ‘hunters’ print.
SteveT says
Different strokes for different folks as they say. I can’t choose one and the first two choices I would make are quite dark which is not like me – I would say Guernica by Picasso, The last temptation by Hieronymous Bosch or less dark but one I really like is Nighthawks by Edward Hopper. The first two have so much detail in them that I could easily spend the 5 years looking at them and still find something new.
Sitheref2409 says
Nighthawks is great. I got pointed at by the Bosch series of novels by Connelly, and when I saw it I fell in love.
There’s so many different stories you can see in it, and it doesn’t matter what story you see, he captured it to t “t”
slotbadger says
I’d plump for a painting by a pal of mine in Berlin, Jonas Burgert. His work is dark, chaotic and IMO, quite fantastic.
Gatz says
I like that very much. Is he represented by a gallery in Berlin? It happens that I’m going there on holiday tomorrow.
slotbadger says
He’s represented by Blain Southern which have galleries here and in Berlin, but he hasn’t anything on at the moment unfortunately. Have a great time in Berlin though!
Diddley Farquar says
Rothko for me too. I know this one from the Tate. Could never tire of looking at it.
https://flic.kr/p/xZUrWN
ianess says
Colour me philistine, but I just don’t get the appeal of Rothko.
i’ll dig out my copy of ‘The Painted Word’ by Tom Wolfe instead for a good laugh.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Hey, Sven! You should come to my home town. There’s a part of everyone’s house here that looks like a Rothko. Sometimes the entire house! Folks here are so cultured!
Diddley Farquar says
Ah, it’s just like being back at school here sometimes. Isn’t it just great?
H.P. Saucecraft says
*aims peashooter at back of sven’s head*
Junglejim says
Yep.
Although TPW has its moments when Wolfe calls BS on conceptual art – in essence, it’s only as good as the concept behind it – his ‘playful reactionary’ schtick wears a little thin in what is one of his lesser works.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Advanced, forthright, signifficant
ianess says
TPW is a polemical pamphlet which, though short, does contain some excellent barbs. His contention that the manifesto supporting the ‘art’ is more important than the work itself is one of the more effective barbs.
Rothko, to me, is a prime example of ‘Emperor’s new clothes’. He’s layering paint.
Diddley Farquar says
Emperor Rothko. I remember his radio 1 show well.
ianess says
Yeth. He was fun.
Sitheref2409 says
I don’t know.
I have no art education at all. Good art is like pornography; I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.
I haven’t read TPW, but I have to challenge the Emperor’s NEw Clothes thing.
Until IS aw it, I couldn’t have told you the first thing about Rothko. As it is, I still know very little. No idea about his philosophy, or beliefs. But I saw his art and was simply mesmerized. Beautiful. Saying he’s just layering pain is a bit like saying that Mona Lisa is just a picture of a face, how hard can that be?
It’s all in the eye of beholder, I recognize that. But even the paintings on here that I don’t like I acknowledge have generally been painted with a high degree of skill that I could only dream of possessing.
ianess says
‘layering pain’. That he most certainly is. Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
If you ever read TPW, you’ll see what I’m referring to.
As for ‘high degree of skill’; where’s the evidence for that in Rothko’s paintings?
mikethep says
Give him a break! ‘I don’t know much about art but I know what I like,’ is what @sitheref2409 appears to be saying (apologies if I wronged you sith, I’m the same). Which being the case, why should he have to justify himself? He obviously loves it – isn’t that enough?
H.P. Saucecraft says
Mike, in a humane and just society not having to justify loving something for its own sake would indeed be enough. Unfortunately, this is the Afterword.
I’m sure context has a lot to do with it. If you ripped a few doors from houses in my home town (many by Rothko) and stuck them in a museum you’d appreciate qualities missed in the street. Similarly, if you used a Rothko (say, this one) as a door, you wouldn’t notice it at all.
mikethep says
Not the point, Saucy, well made though it is. I can take or leave Rothko as it happens, whether at the end of the garden path (really? I thought you came from Coventry) or in a gallery.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Home town = where my home is.
As to “points” – eh? What?
Sitheref2409 says
That was more or less what I was trying to say.
Where’s the skill in Rothko? I don’t know, because I have no idea about process, his or anyone’s.
But here’s what I do know. In the Phillips, it’s easy to walk past the Rothko room and miss it. But if you walk in, you get to see ‘Orange and Red on Red’ and your horizon is filled with orange. When you get up close, you can see all the layers in there as well as the changes in the surface and the color – smooth here, rough there.
When you step back and sit on the bench and look at it, it draws you in. As others have referenced, it creates an almost meditative state. And that’s before you see the other pieces in there.
How skilled do you have to be to go through the mechanical process to create that? I don’t know. But to get that end effect means you have some kind of skill or creative genius. Art is entirely subjective – I try to not be dismissive of artists just because the work doesn’t resonate with me.
Kid Dynamite says
There’s a quality to Rothko’s work that I haven’t found in other art. It’s a kind of serenity, an impression that this work is the result of deep meditation. it doesn’t always come across as strongly in reproductions as it does in seeing them in the flesh, but to view one in a museum can be a transporting experience.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I think this is the point – small though it was – that I was making. It’s the context of seeing it “in a museum” or a gallery that makes you appreciate it better. Or at all. You can see this kind of colour juxtaposition, composition, and slightly rough-textured finish all over the world. Even on an allotment shed in Coventry. If I could be bothered to reinforce my point I’d spend an hour in the streets of this scruffy little Thai town photographing sections of walls and floors that “looked like Rothkos.”
I’m not saying “it’s not art”, I’m saying “art is what you find in art galleries”. But I am saying you might be able to get a similar feeling of transportation (whatever) from considering any similar combinations of colour, wherever found, regardless of the intent (or lack of it) that produced it.
Kid Dynamite says
There is an element of that, definitely, but the main things I was thinking of in the original vs reproduction line was the size of the paintings – some of them are massive – and the three dimensionality of the, ahem, layering of paint.
I quite agree that you can, and frequently do, find beauty in unexpected and mundane places, but is it art without intent? This one could run and run, and we’re already over at the edge of the page.
Bingo Little says
I agree with this.
You’re kind of getting into the territory here of Walter Benjamin’s “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction”. The notion that the artist imbues a piece with their own “aura” and in doing so makes it “art”. Duchamp’s urinal is just a urinal until it’s placed in a gallery, whereupon it becomes art.
Regarding Rohtko, I like his stuff but I always find it a little bit polite. When I was growing up there was Rothko print in the hallway of every middle class family in the neighbourhood, and this has left a lasting (and entirely unfair) impression that his paintings are for for those too urbane to hang representative art in their homes, but too bourgeois to hang anything that might risk ugliness. Daft prejudice writer’s own.
Regarding TPW, I read it a couple of years back on Ian’s recommendation and thought it was fantastic. Wolfe is always great when he gets the bit between his teeth.
mikethep says
And my point, such as it was, was not about whether Rothko is better in or out of a museum. It was that @sitheref2409 shouldn’t have to stand in the dock and produce evidence for a high degree of skill in Rothko’s painting. Loving it is enough.
Pizon-bros says
I’ll take the garden of Monet behind my window, so I will never get tired of it.
http://giverny.org/gardens/fcm/giverny.jpg
Junglejim says
Thanks salwarpe, much appreciated!
mikethep says
As of today, this. It’s called Two Auld Wifies, and it’s by Ron Stenberg, a Kiwi who’s the father of a friend of mine. Even though he was offered $100,000 for it, he presented it to the art gallery in Dundee, which is where he did the sketches of these two anonymous old dears taking their ease. I love it, it makes me smile.
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g401/mikethep/wifies_zps5vpoglui.jpg
SixDog says
Jackson Pollock’s Number 5.
I get so lost in this, it’s wonderful. Try and follow strands like a tube map.
http://www.artisanchallenge.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/jackson_pollock_1_no_5_1948-copia.jpg
SixDog says
Aargh. Try again…
H.P. Saucecraft says
I’d have Gustave Courbet’s ‘The Origin Of The World’:
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t642/burtkocain/fanny_zpslfjodjxy.jpg
The masterful brushwork, the crepuscular light, the daring juxtaposition of textures, the classical composition (drawing on the Golden Section) … these all combine in what, for me, is a picture I’d never tire of looking at.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Did I say I’d never tire of looking at it? Well, I wouldn’t. Tire of looking at it would not be an option. It would in no wise make me tired, the act of looking at it. Nor would I tire of the act itself.
mikethep says
Reminds me of this, not sure why.
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g401/mikethep/Lady-With-A-Fur-Muff_zpsudvf76vm.jpg
H.P. Saucecraft says
They couldn’t be more unalike, Mike. Your lady has both hands in her muff.
garyjohn says
Fur coat and no knickers?
Pizon-bros says
@h-p-saucecraft yes you will. TSBYCR
Cookieboy says
My favourite painting by a long way.
Russell Drysdale – The Cricketers
I don’t know why but I love the shadows on the ground and the vaguely menacing red glow in the sky
http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/cookieboymonster/26575.jpg
Sewer Robot says
I don’t really do visual art, but I can do awe. I’d like a wall devoted to a high resolution print of the Hubble Ultra Deep Field photograph. Almost every speck in this picture is a galaxy (for perspective, in five tv shows and twelve movies over fifty years travelling at incomprehensible warp speeds our Star Trek heroes have never* boldly gone outside our galaxy)
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o615/JohnDetail/hubble_zpsrqtjxywt.jpg
(*in fact they have, but only thanks to the intervention of creatures with God-like power such as “Q”)
Junior Wells says
One image.I’m still traumatisedpicking Van songs.
I will be happy with an African mask, even one I one -yeah that one shown in my thumbnail will do.
Simplicity and looking at it you see a whole line of cubism spawned
Junior Wells says
one I own
alternatively a Big pop art poster with 2 words will do
EDIT FUNCTION
bungliemutt says
From his Razzle period.
bungliemutt says
That was in response to Mr Saucebox’s admiration for Courbet.
ernietothecentreoftheearth says
Pretty much anything by Carroll Cloar or Leonora Carrington.
badartdog says
Not on the wall – but if I could have Pelagos by Barbara Hepworth on a plinth I doubt Id ever leave the house again
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r139/badartdog/hepworth_pelagos.jpg
Blue Boy says
I’ve always loved Frans Hals’s portraits, especially this one in the National Gallery. It’s about youth, and mortality, life and death you know….
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b611/Molesworth1/image.jpg1_zps2bw7btqr.jpg
Jackthebiscuit says
No doubt showing my lack of education & taste, I am going to choose The Mona Lisa, failing that, a shed load of jack Vettriano originals (I am already the owner of 2 Wonderful originals from our parish artist Peter Pencilsqueezer).
RubyBlue says
When we did this before I chose a Rothko, which I would still have, but also this from Paul Nash, ‘The Shore (at Dymchurch.)’ A war painter; Pat Barker has fictionalised him in her recent books.
Leedsboy says
My Parents by Hockney.
H.P. Saucecraft says
How’d you get Hockers to paint your mum and dad, Lee?
Leedsboy says
I did try commissioning him but it was really expensive. Turned out it was much cheaper getting them to adopt me.
H.P. Saucecraft says
It’s a wonderful picture.
Leedsboy says
It is. It has real love in it.
Dodger Lane says
Hmm, it’s maps for me. I think I would take just about anything from the Magnificent maps exhibition at the British library a while back. But if I had to choose, any of the Macdonald Gill thematic maps would do me – have a copy of the Tea Revives the World map – but the original would be better. Failing that, I have always loved the William Orpen self portrait – Ready to Start.
Jackthebiscuit says
I rather like some of the old railway posters I have seen here & there (That means that I don’t actually remember where)
Andymack says
@JungleJim An experiment on Peter Stringfellow in an air pump would be pretty great
scotty67uk says
Anything by Dylan Izaak would do for me. This is my first post on here actually. Hello everyone.
Kaisfatdad says
Hi @scotty67uk. Welcome! Great to have a new voice. Hope you have fun here.
Don’t be shy about eventually starting a thread of your own. The wonderful thing about the Afterword is the extraordinary range of stuff that people are into in terms of art, music, film, comic books, TV shows etc.
pencilsqueezer says
Hi @scotty67uk.
bricameron says
Probably a Dali. I’m not sure which one though.
Charlie Gordon says
Anything by Goya but love the Black Paintings. In fact can I have the whole of the Prado.
This one is simple but …..
H.P. Saucecraft says
Arf.
Charlie Gordon says
Shhh…don’t cheapen the moment
GCU Grey Area says
I’d quite like Rembrandt’s ‘The Night Watch’, or Botticelli’s ‘Venus’ or a Klimt, but I’d be overjoyed to have the original artwork or a first-run print of one of Tom Purvis’s posters for the LNER. Probably this one:
http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/GCU_Grey_Area/TP-EC-Parasol-1_zps2ggllwzh.jpg
Diddley Farquar says
To continue the Rothko discussion down here for ease of reading, if I may be so bold, I would say the difference with the worn paint on door comparison is that Rothko is deliberately controlling the process. He is making decisions, he is editing, just the same as in most creative processes. The layering, to allow a certain amount of what’s underneath to come through, is not easy. I’ve tried it. He allows enough to show through to keep the surface interesting and allow a tension between surface and depth. There is some illusion of depth but he keeps you aware of the surface at the same time. This is the same idea as cubism and runs throughout modernism. Reminding the viewer it’s just a flat canvas while creating a feeling of space. This is a whole different thing to the provocative Duchamp intellectual and philosophical game of putting something in a gallery to make it art because the artist says so, which has lead to the limitations of conceptual art. Rothko is much more a painter in a traditional sense. His juxtapositions and techniques have nothing to do with found objects.
Some Rothkos work better than others. I think his later works show him coming to a bit of a dead end, a crisis in his art. Probably this is connected with his own personal crisis that resulted in his suicide. His best work is full of light and shimmers, you look through the paint to something beyond. I think people have reproductions at home because his work can seem pretty and decorative. Possibly why he moved toward darker, more gloomy colours, to avoid that interpretation. In the flesh they do much more though, they are lucid and readable. Looking at a door with worn paint, even if it was placed in a gallery context, is not the same experience at all for me.
I think with painting you do need to learn about it, to develop an understanding, whether it’s naturalistic or abstract. There is so much more to a realistic painting than a likeness. The mark making, colour selection, composition and paint handling all comes into it.
Bingo Little says
The point was less about found objects, and more about the role of the artist in establishing what we do and do not consider to be art, vis the painted doors in Burt’s neighbourhood.
To clarify the point, consider the following hypothetical: if nature conspires to accidentally produce a door in Burt’s village which is functionally identical to a Rothko, does it have the same artistic value as a Rothko? What if someone produces an exact forgery of a Rothko?
Art is ultimately art because it’s created by artists. You’re on a hiding to nothing if you try to make it an issue of technique alone.
Diddley Farquar says
The idea that nature could come up with a Rothko by chance through wear of paint on a door is absurd. That is a misunderstanding of the paintings. As I’ve said the paintings involve certain techniques with oils, a process nature itself could not reproduce, and the process can be seen to an extent in the finished work. I am explaining that these are very sophisticated, considered paintings. A very good forgery could be experienced in the same way as an original but I think they’d be pretty hard to forge. I expect one could be fooled and enjoy a forgery just as much but I think people underestimate how complex these works really are.
I am not making an issue of technique alone. It’s bound up in the meaning of paintings though. I know what the point was. Of course art is art because it’s made by artists but conceptual art that comes from Dada is very different in intention to abstract expressionism.
Bingo Little says
Does the word “hypothetical” not cover all of this?
Diddley Farquar says
No I don’t think so. Try going to Tate Modern and have a good look at their Rothkos. Take some time, look at them closely. You will see any resemblance to a worn painted door is entirely superficial. Such dismissal of them is purely down to lack of appreciation and understanding.
H.P. Saucecraft says
My lack of understanding of abstract expressionism is second only to my lack of understanding of pop music. Hopefully you will be able to explain both to me, Sven.
Bingo Little says
Hmmm… I think you’re seeing something between the lines of my posts that isn’t there, or perhaps more likely conflating my argument with Saucecraft’s. I’m not saying Rothkos look identical to worn doors, or that abstract expressionism is the same as Dada.
Still, maybe if I’m lucky you can take me to the Tate Modern and explain all the complicated art to me, eh? ; )
H.P. Saucecraft says
I can wait. One day Sven will explain everything to me.
Bingo Little says
It will be more efficient if we all get together to save Sven having to explain things twice. I know he hates that.
Diddley Farquar says
I don’t know if I am conflating things. I was going by the point you made about the artist determining what we think of as art which has got a bit bound up with the idea of painted doors and Rothkos. It’s hard to separate all these elements out. Burt initially made his usual frivolous mockery as is his wont, in this case of my admiration of the painting I chose. The discussion did get quite interesting I thought.
I think Rothko and Pollock are great artists and abstract expressionism is the last great period in painting. The best paintings repay endless revisiting, and you see them differently each time. Conceptual art on the other hand is more about getting the point and once you’ve got it, revisiting the work doesn’t really add anything so I prefer paintings. I thought we’d got beyond the point where abstract art is ridiculed. Now I’m rambling.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I don’t know why I’m being accused of frivolous mockery and misunderstanding. I feel like poor Harvey Proctor.
Bingo Little says
For what it’s worth, I’m with you 100% on abstract expressionism and conceptual art. I’m a big fan of Pollock and, particularly, Kandinsky (whose prints adorn my own hallways).
The analysis I’m applying above re: the role of the artist is something I’d suggest for any movement. It’s certainly not meant to knock abstract art, or the related level of technical skill. My own mother is a fairly accomplished artist, who works mainly in abstracts – she’d give me a clip round the ear if I were to suggest her work was inherently simple and could be accidentally assembled by nature. But then, she’d also be the first to acknowledge the shamanic role of the artist, in Conceptual or otherwise.
The point I was trying to make is that for there to be art, there must be an artist. That’s our cultural conditioning. If you remove the artist, it’s no longer “art”, even if it’s technically identical (be it a poster, a perfect reproduction or a village door which has – by some miracle – become an exact replica of the piece in question). Which is why the Composition VII on my wall is just a print, but the one in the State Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow is art. Because Kandinsky only produced the latter.
badartdog says
@blue-boy it’s about impotence too judging by the feather!
retropath2 says
The Scream by Edvard Munch, which, given he did 7 or 8, you never know. Not going to post it as a picture can’t give justice to the immensity of the one I saw in one or other of Chicagos 2 fine galleries. It’s enormous and eats the room. If not I’ll take the house burning down one.
Ahh_Bisto says
I’ve been on a bit of a Victorian lit splurge recently – Dickens, Le Fanu and Wilkie Collins – and have been enjoying the paintings of John Atkinson Grimshaw, particularly his night scenes which could easily be based on a scene from one of those author’s books.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Have you read Le Fanu’s ‘Schalken The Painter’, Mr Bisto? (On topic!)
Ahh_Bisto says
The arch smile!
Diddley Farquar says
Can’t see reply option to Bing and HPS so I’ll do it here.
Bingo: As often happens with these kind of discussions we sort of end up coming round to saying the same thing but I enjoyed the ‘journey’ as they say. I saw a brilliant Pollock retrospective years back in London. His huge, classic drip works are really impressive in the flesh. Reproductions are nothing in comparison.
I studied art and have done abstracts. They are demanding and not at all easy as I am sure you appreciate.
HPS: I do think you misunderstand the painting by suggesting a worn, painted door is equivalent. The comparison is superficial.
You were taking the piss somewhat I reckon but that is kind of your schtick so it’s OK since you generally entertain and even enlighten sometimes.
I shall now retire since I’ve said far too much on this matter now.
Bingo Little says
Good stuff – I think we’re on the same page, we just started reading from different ends of the book, is all.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I don’t know how clear I have to make this, Sven. “One” (you, me, whomever) might get the same feelings one gets from a Rothko by contemplating a random piece of painted colour combination (eg a door, a bit of wall, whatever). It’s the gallery/museum setting of a Rothko that gives it its magnetic power. You probably wouldn’t notice a Rothko if it was tacked up against the side of a house, particularly a Thai house where colour combinations are often a little unusual. This is not particularly a criticism, certainly not a dismissal (another thing you accuse me of!), it’s an observation specific to Rothko, and perhaps Pollock (we’ve seen a good few paint-dripped floors that remind us of a Pollock). Perhaps Rothko would be happy if you started to get the contemplative results he inspires from unintended “art” outside a gallery. And I think you way overemphasise the technique/brushwork aspect of his work. There’s as little of that as he can get away with.
Diddley Farquar says
I really think you understate how much the hand of the artist is apparent in the case of both artists. Rothko did paint in such a way that gestural brush strokes are avoided but his way of working can still be seen – the process, subtle though it was. The point is there’s a lot more going on in one of his pieces than you give credit for. You clearly don’t think so. I think you are mistaken.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I give up, Sven.
Diddley Farquar says
Probably best. We’re not getting anywhere. Enjoy your thai doors and Athena poster of the girl scratching her bum. Much cheaper than Rothkos.
mikethep says
Not the Athena girl, Sven. HP’s more of a muff man. Do keep up.
Diddley Farquar says
Ah yes, of course. Bit more hardcore.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I’d like to thank you for avoiding using “nuanced” when referring to brushwork, Sven.
ianess says
I’m going to settle down with a box of Maltesers and allow myself to be transported into a meditative, serene trance by gazing on my wall-sized print of Tretchikoff’s ‘Chinese Woman’. The nuanced brushwork, the high degree of skill, the layering of pain…
davebigpicture says
….the Woolworth’s price sticker.
I had to Google the image to check it was what I thought it was. Those prints were everywhere when I was a kid.
mikethep says
She was always halfway up the stairs in Boots when I was a yoof. I used to go there every month to check out the new Penguins (books, that is, not choc bix)) because they always had absolutely everything Penguin published. Happy days…
Tiggerlion says
I’ve seen a few Rothkos. All I can say is they’d make bloody big doors!
H.P. Saucecraft says
It was l’age d’or of abstract expresiionism, Tig.
H.P. Saucecraft says
“L’AGE D’OR”
H.P. Saucecraft says
Please yourselves …
Tiggerlion says
Yes, yes. I got it the first time. Quite apt given the colour of the Rothko Sven posted upthread.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Y’see , Tig, it’s a play on words …
H.P. Saucecraft says
“L’age …” (Fr., pron. LARGE, with a soft “g”.)
mikethep says
It’s more ‘laaazh’ really. Good joke nevertheless.
ianess says
As regards Emperor Rothko, there was a celebrated art forgery case in NY, IIRC, some years ago where, among the many works forged, there were a couple of ‘Rothkos’ which had been sold at auction. So, not that difficult to replicate then.
Why shouldn’t one ridicule ‘abstract’ or ‘conceptual’ art? There seems a huge amount of pseudery involved in attempting to evaluate Rothko’s artistic accomplishments. I am not alone in thinking this. He’s hardly regarded with reverence by all art critics who are much more learned than I am in this field. If some enjoy it, good luck to them. I’d much prefer to study ‘The Night Watch’ which probably puts me on a par with a devotee of ‘The Sound of Music’.
As for asking sith to ‘justify himself’, my issue was solely to do with the amount of ‘skill’ required to apply coats of paint, layer upon layer upon layer.
Bingo Little says
You’ve obviously never seen me attempt to redecorate.
H.P. Saucecraft says
This far down the thread and no-one’s mentioned Hitler?
Kid Dynamite says
Vim Fuego (where is @vim-fuego?) : “I could play “Stairway To Heaven” when I was 12. Jimmy Page didn’t actually write it until he was 22. I think that says quite a lot”
H.P. Saucecraft says
Bad News, I think?
badartdog says
(psst – it’s si the ref. He’s a referee called Si.)
Sewer Robot says
Well, that explains it then. None of those myopic f*ckers can see when I get tripped in the box..
He probably was looking at a door all along..
mikethep says
I know that. It amused me to call him sith, that’s all. Bit like Noel Coward writing to T E Lawrence in the Air Force: Dear Aircraftman 352087 Ross (or my I call you 352?). Not like it at all, now I come to think of it, but it’s a story.
Bingo Little says
No. No. NO.
He’s a Dark Lord of the Sith, taking some downtime from hunting Jedi to pow wow with us about his five favourite bearded bass players.
Don’t take this away from me.
Sitheref2409 says
That and being a referee are not mutually exclusive. It worries me that when I have to give my email address to people it seems easier for them to get Sith Eref (watch for him in Ep VII) than Si The Ref.
Sewer Robot says
Indeed:
“Who’s that b*****d in the black?” could just as easily apply to Lord Vader..
Sitheref2409 says
I referee rugby in a rather fetching sky blue shirt, sadly.
Bingo Little says
Here’s some exclusive snaps of Sith refereeing a football match last weekend:
Sitheref2409 says
I may just steal that!
ianess says
Bingo – always hire the experts. Saves time, money and anguish.
Bingo Little says
Ian – I’m married to a Geordie and I’m Southern, teetotal and vegetarian.
If I stop doing work around the house I might as well turn in my masculinity entirely and go sleep in the shed.
ianess says
And you’ve played 5-a-side with a different coloured boot on each foot. There’s no hope.
Bingo Little says
Oh god. And I was discussing abstract expressionism earlier as well! This marriage is doomed.
ianess says
Don’t kid me that she’s ever had the guts to invite you up to meet the relatives, you soft Southern ……
Bingo Little says
My one saving grace is that my Dad’s side of the family are from Yorkshire. I learned as a child that, no matter what other terrible Southern tendencies you may have, if you turn up and eat three helpings of Sunday dinner you’re a god in the North.
My first visit from Newcastle moved swiftly from “So you’re from London then? They should have left the lights on during the blitz” (actual quote) to “he’s got a canny appetite, this lad” within a couple of hours. It almost killed me, but it was worth it.
I was also fortunate to be able to use this instructive video to learn the mysterious ways of the North. Stood me in great stead:
badartdog says
you had three helpings. Of veg.
doesn’t count yer jessie.
Bingo Little says
I didn’t stop at three, and I ate a couple of the plates for good measure.
Nobody fucked with me after that.
Diddley Farquar says
Well, those abstract expressionists were pretty macho with their big fuck off canvases and big fuck off brushes and their heavy drinking. But discussing the art on the internet maybe not so manly.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Speak for yourself.
Junglejim says
I’ve enjoyed the discussion this thread prompted & think it’ s been pretty civilised.
I’m lucky enough to have some nice stuff on the walls indoors that I find myself staring into consciously & unconsciously for hours as it’s where the groovy hi-fi is set up & the music & visuals complement each other very rewardingly.
All of the stuff is originals, so there’s a direct connection with the respective creators
That’s what prompted me to post the OP. I get loads from the stuff I gaze at so imagine how mind blowing a Rembrandt or Rothko or Turner on the wall would be? The monetary value is irrelevant but you’d be directly connected for the duration with creative genius. I love the notion of having the choice between the telly or a genuine Gaugin for the evening. No contest, what luxury!
Charlie Gordon says
Choice between art and telly?
Why bother when you can have both with Bob Ross and The Grandeur of Summer:
H.P. Saucecraft says
Here’s that famous portrait of Bob:
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t642/burtkocain/zj1kewotf1vgvwq8ya11_zpsja5sazzc.jpg
Junglejim says
Thanks, salwarpe ( re: Delft above)
You are a scholar!
James Blast says
The Black Flag
Giggles says
Can’t post pic but Empire of Light by Magritte is the one for me. Btw bravo Sven. I really enjoyed reading what you wrote about Rothko. Cheers.
Tiggerlion says
Yes, @allium-sativum. You put up a great argument that was a engrossing read.
H.P. Saucecraft says
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t642/burtkocain/emper-cvr_zpsk8rhap6g.jpg
Diddley Farquar says
Thanks both. I did wonder if I’d overdone it and made a bit of a tit of myself so nice to get some praise. ?
H.P. Saucecraft says
Jeeeeezusfuh-reaking-keeeerist, Sven! You done good! Where else could we have this kind of bantz, eh?
Afterword a busted flush? BOLLOCKS.
Diddley Farquar says
Well without bantz and content what are we? I ask in all honesty. So I say thank you for the musing and giving it to me…
Jayhawk says
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy96/john_hawkins2/Fish-Magic-1925_zpse83fcxuh.jpg
Diddley Farquar says
Painted doors like Rothkos? Here’s some. Not convinced myself since Rothkos are more spatial, but they are kind of beautiful and not unlike abstract paintings.
http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2015/09/colorful-lithuanian-garage-doors/