…is surely provided by this interview with Randy Newman.
I mention the Beach Boys, and how I love them (‘yeah, they’re great’), but that Brian Wilson’s arrangements sound meek next to Nelson Riddle’s. ‘Absolutely. Those guys were really sophisticated. Gordon Jenkins, Billy May. The Beach Boys was baby stuff.’ The one pop writer he gives unqualified praise to is Carole King. He recalls going up into the hills above LA with his teenage friend Lenny Waronker — the son of a music executive, who grew up to be one himself — so they could listen to a hip Chicago radio station. ‘He’d say, “Oh, that’s a Carole King song.” And it was better, her stuff. I could hear it. And a lot of the reason it was better is that she knew the old song repertory.’
bricameron says
🍻
H.P. Saucecraft says
That snide little “baby stuff” comment does Newman no credit at all. Wilson wasn’t of Nelson Riddle’s generation or background and he worked in a very different field. He is a self-taught pop music composer, producer, arranger, and player/singer. I’m sure Nelson Riddle wouldn’t have been as stupidly dismissive of him as Newman (a privileged rich kid) is.
Rob C says
Good point. I totally agree.
JustB says
Damn right.
nigelthebald says
Yep.
David Kendal says
The Beach Boys – Yeah they’re great.” Sounds like praise to me, not dismissal. But he’s being asked about the skills of Wilson as an arranger, and agreeing with the interviewer. And I’d agree, Brian Wilson was very talented, melodically and harmonically, but a lot of his orchestral arrangements, like those on Pet Sounds, do sound a bit hokey.
Baron Harkonnen says
Err, I also agree HP.
Rob C says
This was rather good. You have to cherry pick all the rags, left and right.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/07/ringos-no-joke-he-was-a-genius-and-the-beatles-were-lucky-to-have-him/
Rob C says
Up there /\ Worth a read.
ruff-diamond says
Pompous twat. I have never understood, nor will i ever understand, the inexplicable hold that Randy Newman holds over large sections of the AW. Pompous twat.
Yes, I said it twice.
Rob C says
He’s one of these very clever types, dontchaknow….
JustB says
Let’s make it thrice. We can add it to the list: see also Half Man Half Biscuit, Danny Baker ect ect chiz chiz
Rob C says
Steely Dan. Like the most cleverest smartest band in like the whole big world. Far beyond the likes of me.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I’m sending a drone to carpet bomb your abode with battle-hardened tardigrades.
Rob C says
Bring it on, Burtybabe! Do your damnedest!
nigelthebald says
Wasp squadron in support.
Be afraid, Rob. Be very afraid 😉
Rob C says
Pah! I shall brook No Quarter, Nigedude!
Tahir W says
And at their worst, which let’s face is quite a lot of it?
Rob C says
Their worst? I can’t quite find a suitably appropriate adjective.
Tahir W says
Stick to Status Quo.
Rob C says
Be True To Your School, Tahir.
Carl says
Randy Newman pompous?
Your dictionary and mine must hold different definitions of the word.
Tahir W says
What? The guy is one of the best songwriters ever. OK at least the best Jewish-American songwriter (composer, arranger, you name it) ever. Just because he’s so understated and uses so much irony is no reason to dismiss him. That’s what makes him a genius. He’s the opposite of the verbose bores like Van M. He is the anti-Van man. Give thanks and praises.
JustB says
This is where Afterword Bizarro World confuses me. He’s not one of the big greats. Most people have never heard of him. And yet he often gets talked about on here like he’s John Lennon (or Brian Wilson). He’s a decent songwriter with a bit of an up-himself clever clever attitude: it’s like elevating Ben Folds to the pantheon.
H.P. Saucecraft says
Hear him! Hear him!
(… and he hasn’t changed his boxer shorts since the Carter administration)
Tahir W says
Way better than both of those.
Rob C says
Lennon/Wilson far far better. Randy’s got talent, sure, but not in the same league. Nope.
JustB says
Pffff 😄🙄
Rob C says
Van The Man is no verbose bore. Far from it. He might be an arse of person, but he’s one heck of a great songwriter and performer. There’s a reason he’s so revered. Anyway, no comparison between the two. Totally different in their styles/approach.
Tahir W says
Pretentious pseudo-literary lyrics that go on and on about nothing. Good voice admittedly.
Rob C says
Ain’t half good pretentious pseudo-literary (you forgot ‘mystical’) lyrics, eh? Dylan’s a huge admirer. He suffers from the same affliction.
Rob C says
Tell you one thing, you couldn’t sit on Glastonbury Tor and watch the summer dawn sun rise over the levels, listening to Randy Newman on your Ipod.
Carl says
I could.
Tahir W says
Sorry I don’t do mystical either. Dylan I will address in another thread.
Rob C says
Stand by your beds.
😉
Tiggerlion says
I don’t read many interviews and this thread illustrates why. I’m not interested in Randy Newman’s opinions (or his copy as this article is a set-up with the ultimate aim of selling a newspaper, an outlandish, ill-thought comment can be exploded to an attention-grabbing headline). I’m interested in his music.
Randy Newman is a fantastic songwriter. With a few deft strokes of his piano and a simple couplet of words, he can capture the essence of an entire life. He is especially good when he talks to God or he gets inside the head of a lonely or bereaved person. His father/son songs are especially poignant and beautiful. I like his circus songs too.
The ones labelled as ‘clever’ are his ironic ones, the ones where he spouts bigotry, racism, misogyny and hatred but is making a political point (small ‘p’) about the way some people are. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy those songs too, it’s just that I don’t regard them as clever as his others. However, these are the ones he is best known for because they are shocking, attention-grabbers. He amounts to much more.
He also cannot help being born into a rich family and having a good education. He knows he is lucky.
I’ve met a few of my heroes and regretted it. I’m looking at you Siouxsie and Elvis. Now, I just enjoy the music, except when the noise gets so loud I can’t block it out, such as with Gary Glitter for example.
Love and Peace x
H.P. Saucecraft says
Oh yes, the “irony”. Always such a good thing in songwriting – something to be appreciated like a fine wine, and especially effective in spreading niche messages (bigotry/slavery/war is bad) to people who would otherwise remain in ignorance (IRONY ALERT). As to “deft strokes of his piano”, he’s pretty hamfisted when he leans on the keys. And he sings like someone is hitting him repeatedly in the schnozz with a bean bag.
Junior Wells says
What is your basis for saying he is ham fisted on the piano HP ?
I’ve seen him and he seemed quite nimble fingered. I understand him to be a good exponent of stride piano of which Fats Waller is a well known exponent.
Perhaps @Mousey can add to this.
Rob C says
This is fun.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I don’t need a basis for claiming he plays the piano like he’s building ham sandwiches. Nor for saying he has a clinical body odour problem and is cruel to dogs.
Junior Wells says
*moves HP’s contribution to shit stirring , junk mail folder*
Tahir W says
OK so now we know where to file your comments.
Junior Wells says
OK @Tahir-W I was referring to HP dissing Newman’s piano playing , it seems, for a bit of sport.
Are you referring to my contributions generally or this particular comment?
mikethep says
Have a care people, lest another of DougieJ’s threads turns into a shitstorm (when he presumably thought he was on reasonably safe ground). We can agree that Randy Newman is quite good, can’t we? And the Beach Boys likewise? Well then.
Rob C says
Seriously – shitstorm ? I don’t think that’s in danger of happening. All I see is good natured and vibrant talk with a good dose of humour, as well. What this place does best. It’s all too easy to read offence where there is none. Guilty of that myself on occasion.
Peace & Love!
H.P. Saucecraft says
Frankly, Mike, the last thing anyone needs here is the Voice of Reasonableness. Where’s the fun in a balanced viewpoint? If we all chimed in with the see-both-sides-apples-and-oranges then it would be a dull old place indeed.
Randy Newman is the Steve Bannon of pop n’ rock.
Tahir W says
His not yours.
Rob C says
Steve Bannon of pop.
*cackles*
Tahir W says
Brian Wilson never got over his first wank.
And what kind of dick lies in bed with his wife to be photographed in silly pyjamas for ‘world peace’?
minibreakfast says
See? SEE!
This is where the Afterblog falls down, especially if you’re on a phone.
Rob C says
I’m not getting a yurt vibe here, Tahir.
minibreakfast says
Junior, if you study the nesting of the comments carefully you’ll see that Tahir was responding to HP. Unless he’s all fingers n thumbs n that.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I’m not responding to anyone. I live in a dizzy world of my own uninformed opinions. Which are subject to change without notice.
I have long been a fan of Mr Newman’s work, but as I said in my first comment his snide dig at Brian Wilson does him no favours. As to the rest – as a wise man once said “I thought this was a silly old music blog” so I reserve the right to be flippant when I want to be. Discussions comparing pop stars get unnecessarily po-faced. I mean, really – this is the internet – nobody gives much of a shit what you think about anything, especially about the relative merits of pop stars.
Randy Newman has an eyebrow mite problem.
Junior Wells says
Actually Mini I can never work out how the whole replying works. Tahir’s comment was below mine ,how am I to discern who the response was directed at?
While I’m here, I agree with Tahir that there are plenty of trite songs in the BB catalogue. I agree with HP that RN’s voice is somewhat whiney, in fact RN is probably his biggest critic in that regard.
Whilst some of his political/satirical stuff seems a bit obvious he is one of the few people doing it and probably at the expense of more commercial success.
Re piano playing he was ham fisted while BW was scoffing the hams.
minibreakfast says
It was below yours but not “nested”. Of course once we get this far the Reply button disappears, and that’s when the real fun starts 🙂
Junior Wells says
Mini, I looked above and still can’t work out the principle. I think your second sentence is akin to Monty Python’s “this is where my theory falls to the ground”
Tiggerlion says
He’s made a great deal of money soundtracking Toy Story.
minibreakfast says
Who are you talking to, tig?
Moose the Mooche says
I prefer the old days with the spindly writing over there ->
https://web.archive.org/web/20131113091218/https://theafterword.co.uk/content/appalling-travel-companions
Tiggerlion says
Anyone who’ll listen.
Rob C says
Randy Newman would be incapable of writing anything as beautiful and heartfelt as The Beach Boys at their best.
Junior Wells says
hmmmm
Rob C says
That’s his best moment. Agreed.
H.P. Saucecraft says
I like Vine Street, too. He’s written some great songs. For a fat tub of vinegar-soused lard.
Junior Wells says
Junior Wells says
Junior Wells says
sans strings
Junior Wells says
finally, recent Randy with intro
Carl says
He never performs Kathleen (Catholicism Made Easier) live, but I contend that meets your challenge as well.
Tahir W says
Surely not?
Tahir W says
East coast girls are hip
I really dig those styles they wear
Carl says
Patent nonsense:
Mike_H says
Randy Newman is as entitled to an opinion as anybody else is, I suppose.
Comparing Brian Wilson or Carole King to Nelson Riddle or Gordon Jenkins is a bit like comparing spring onions to strawberries. Both nice to eat (in my opinion) but very different in flavour. A preference for one over another is still only a preference, no matter what reasons you may cite.
If Mr Newman goes on at length to trash Mr Wilson, then that is not nice of him at all. If it’s just remarks in passing or a brief answer to a question posed, it’s no big deal.
Randy has a new album out and Brian has been touring recently, so they are both currently newsworthy. Pitting them against each other potentially sells a few extra copies of The Spectator. It’s a thing papers and magazines do. Even the “quality” ones.
Locust says
Hmmm…let me see if I get the rules: we’re allowed to pay Brian Wilson a compliment by hating on Randy Newman, but he isn’t allowed to pay Carole King a compliment by mildly dissing Brian Wilson, correct? OK, got it.
Tahir W says
Carole King is the second greatest Jewish American songwriter (singer, composer, arranger) ever. Neither RN nor CK would have produced some of the sentimental dreck that Brian and the BBs have sometimes (quite often) produced.
H.P. Saucecraft says
What on earth is wrong with sentimental dreck?
Rob C says
Nothing at all. It’s great stuff. It’s mawkish shite that doesn’t work for me.
Rob C says
I’m prone to welling up to Buddy, for example. Danny Williams’ ‘Moon River’ hits me in the heart, every time.
‘Raining In My Heart’: ‘It doesn’t get any better than that’ – Robert Wyatt.
Moose the Mooche says
Sadly – very very very sadly – Rob W’s cover version is piano only.
Elsewhere, the packing-case percussion on Not Fade Away absolutely ROOLZ.
bricameron says
Oh, Danny Williams, Rob.
Locust says
As someone who doesn’t own a single Beach Boys album, but plenty of RN, a couple of CK (and plenty of albums by other artists singing her songs), I’m certainly not going to argue against that. Even if I somewhat fail to understand what them being Jewish American have to do with anything.
Tahir W says
I found a way to qualify what I started, that’s all. But it is remarkable how many great Jewish-American songwriters there are. If you pay attention to what I said you’ll notice that I am, by implication, placing both of them above, Dylan, Reed, Simon and Cohen.
But I am not rating them above everyone. The greatest to me is Chuck Berry.
Junior Wells says
Re being Jewish this anecdote reproduced in Wikipedia is interesting
Newman has said that religion and any sense of religious identity were completely absent in his childhood. To illustrate this, he has often recounted in interviews an antisemitic incident that occurred when he was young: he was invited by a classmate to be her date to a cotillion at her Los Angeles country club. He accepted the invitation but was subsequently disinvited by the girl’s father, who told Newman that his daughter should never have invited Newman because Jews were not allowed at the country club. Newman thanked the girl’s father, hung up the phone, and then went to ask his own father what a “Jew” was.
Tahir W says
A Jew is someone who has a Jewish mother. It’s got nothing to do with believing in god.
And Randy found out what a Jew is. Just listen to Good Old Boys.
Nice story though, although I don’t a damn believe it.
Junior Wells says
you are in a feisty mood aren’t you 😉
Tahir W says
Maybe you could advise me on the hierarchies around here. I’m getting a. creepy feeling.
Moose the Mooche says
*ahem*
Leonard Cohen was Canadian.
Tahir W says
Canada was in N. America last time I checked.
Moose the Mooche says
OK, next time I meet a Canadian I’ll insist on calling him/her American – they love that, apparently 😉
chiz says
I’ve never intentionally listened to Randy Newman. In my mind he’s basically an American Richard Stilgoe.
Junior Wells says
well listen to some of the clips above. Only partially typical of his music as he does all those soundtracks, cheesy songs and smart arse stuff too.
But these are lovely sad songs.
JustB says
Ha! I thought that too without knowing I thought it.
Junior Wells says
Just looked this Stilgoe character up. The YouTube clips I posted above might counter the immediate “Short People” association.
Sewer Robot says
Ooh! Fun game..
Who’s the American Cyril Fletcher? Har Mar Superstar perhaps?
Moose the Mooche says
“Well, Madge Walmart of Milwaukee sent us this picture of a rutabaga that looks like a wang”
chiz says
Tom Waits = Jake Thackray
Moose the Mooche says
*starts 38 Degrees petition to force Tom Waits to record Brother Gorilla*
GCU Grey Area says
How odd. The other day the phrase ‘ Robert Peston sings Jacques Brel’ popped into my head, which isn’t a million miles away from that.
Rob C says
I got that once with Joe Pasqaule reads ‘100 Days Of Sodom’ for Book At Bedtime.
Moose the Mooche says
*adopts facial expression worn by someone being fisted by Freddie Krueger*
EEEEEEEEEEEN THE…..
….
….
PORRRRT
ofAmsterdamthere’sa SAILOR!! whosings Ofthedreamsthathebringsfromthewide
……
……
OOOOOOOOPEN….
sea
….etc.
GCU Grey Area says
Up.
Rob C says
Ha.
*wipes tea off laptop screen with damp cloth*
Tahir W says
What kind of tea was it? Liver and baked beans?
Rob C says
Ribs. You owe me a replacement.
Tahir W says
Okay
Moose the Mooche says
This is great. Can we now have that 1967 TV interview where Pete Townshend said the Beatles were lousy?
It’s amazing how many great songwriters are art-school fuckups in stripey trousers etc
Tahir W says
In 1967 they WERE lousy.
Moose the Mooche says
*sigh*
Alright then.
Rob C says
Their psychedelic period was indeed lousy. World culturally changing lousy.
Tahir W says
Unfortunately yes. We’re still trying to undo all that.
Rob C says
Doing a good job there.
Rob C says
I have no ‘we’ – but if I did, it’s not yours.
Rob C says
1966, and he was talking about their live set up. Pete dug the Beatles.
Moose the Mooche says
Funny that he could hear them playing live when they couldn’t hear themselves… or each other. Perhaps he could hear for miles.
Rob C says
Hollywood Bowl remastered is a corker. They fucking rocked. It’s just such a shame that the audience and themselves barely heard it. Hamburg instinct to the fore.
chiz says
He was talking about listening to them in stereo, so you could hear the voices in one speaker and the backing tracks in the other. He said the backing was lousy.
Rob C says
I saw a black and white clip in the 90s (what tv show repeat I can’t recall) where I’m pretty sure he was talking about their live set up. I may be wrong, of course.
Moose the Mooche says
The clip turns up in The Kids Are Alright – a brilliant docco from (I think) 1978.
Moose the Mooche says
This reminds me of the story of Otis Redding listening to Revolver in stereo and claiming to hear somebody in the vocal channel say “Paul is queer”. Would love to know which track that was, but Mr R is sadly not on hand to clarify.
Rob C says
Ray Davies made a jealous prick of himself re. Revolver:
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/ray-davies-reviews-revolver/
To this day, many Kinks fans are a weird obsessive embittered bunch.
Tahir W says
Revolver is hugely overrated, like Pet Sounds. The rot had already started to set in with parts of Rubber Soul. But by Revolver it is clear the glory days were over, and the way open to such crap as you-know-what.
Rob C says
Sorry man, but…. if you are serious, and not living under a bridge waiting for goats, I seriously question your ability to appreciate music, irrespective of personal taste. I can do that. I can do it with Steely Dan, seriously. I get the riffs and the talent, so tongue (cross thread) very much in cheek re my take on them. Your comment is just sheer bollocks, deliberate, or otherwise. No offence meant.
Tahir W says
Oh none taken at all. But you need to have some of your prejudices questioned too.
JustB says
Why?
Rob C says
Were you kicked out of dentistry collage by a hippy?
Tahir W says
It’s good for you in the long run. Trust me.
Tahir W says
A hippy dentist? I’d run mile rather than get any of that in my mouth.
Moose the Mooche says
Dentistry collage – the gatefold sleeve of Uncle Meat.
nigelthebald says
*waves at Rob, blowing kisses*
cleanersvenus says
I was listening to Dark Matter yesterday for the first time on my iPod and having a nice walk in the park. The final track ‘Wandering Boy’ came on and completely caught me unawares. I had to run back to the office hoping against hope nobody would see me. I was left in a very emotional state for the rest of the day. That’s song writing that is.
Rob C says
I wouldn’t trust you with a 12 string sunbeam, nor you me.
Tiggerlion says
UP!!
DougieJ says
Somewhat surprised to see my post storming up the, er, charts. On this occasion at least I can honestly say I wasn’t intending to provoke a heated debate, I just thought it was an interesting interview. Personally I admire both gentlemen hugely (RN and BW) but have got much more pure pleasure out of listening to The Beach Boys than just about anyone in the pantheon of popular tunesmithery. Anyway, glad to know it proved a stimulating diversion for many of you!
Tahir W says
Yessir!
nigelthebald says
Not just a stimulating diversion, but a shock revelation from @Rob-C
Rob C says
What’s that then? I’m not as young as I used to be.
nigelthebald says
😀
ruff-diamond says
It really doesn’t matter how many clips you post illustrating his so-called “genius”, this is all I hear. The American Richard Stilgoe indeed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqNG_SrSa4o
mikethep says
That is brilliant.
Lemonhope says
That’s first class. 😍
JustB says
Absolutely fantastic
Junior Wells says
Yep pretty damn funny.
bricameron says
“Take those Midget Bastards down!”
😂😂😂
Disclaimer: I adore Randy Newman’s songs and his performance of them, his obvious control of his own work tells me that he loves me.
Blue Boy says
Very good. Mind you, I’m definitely in the camp that reckons he’s a brilliant songwriter and am surprised at the opprobrium from some here.
Lemonhope says
I thought this was good – but that ^^^ makes it look like a Beach Boys song
Lando Cakes says
Well, I like his Toy Story stuff but possibly I’m just missing the irony.